Jesus christ, you really have a chip on your shoulder don't you? Why don't you feck off back to a Hartlepool forum?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær needs more time and respect at Manchester United
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
I’ve not seen that. You’re just creating a different narrative to get away from the fact he’s a Shite manager who needs to go ASAP
Parts of the online fan base especially twitter, instagram and youtube have become very toxic; it's a very fertile ground for entitled individuals; another aspect is that negativity tends to attract a lot more attention then anything else and some "personalities" in the social media environment are taking advantage and thus exacerbating the phenomenon more and more.
Points only, does it mention how Klopps style was like x10 better than what Ole is dishing out?
No, but it also doesn't state that United has the best defense in the league in terms of chances created against. We started our work with the defense and that is not sexy for most of us.
Also it didn’t state our players enjoy missing a lot of games through injury
Fair point, yet fans want to see one of those defenders sold...
There are other areas of the pitch we need to improve before tinkering with the defence.
Got to there and didn't need to read anymore. Not an objective article. Pure propaganda. As if those are the only choices available to us.
Respect, absolutely. But then again, so does everybody. From Lukaku and Sanchez to Lingard, Pogba and Young, to... Mourinho and Moyes. Unless we choose to show our sensitivities only when the inappropriate adjectives and characterizations are directed toward ex-club legends while we're fine when they're being used against people we don't like.
Time, no. Time has to be earned with tangible evidence on the line of work. He could get sacked in the evening and it would still be a decision that makes perfect sense based on what he's showing on the pitch over the last 10 months. The only things in his favour are Woodward's incompetence (but Woodward isn't going anywhere) and some blind faith in a vague vision for the future where grey-haired students of SAF lead the new classes of *insert date* and a bunch of talented Brits into glory.
I guess the latter is kind of expected, especially in times of crises. If it was such a struggle to sell the vision of a better future that will look exactly like the past, career politicians would be out of a job. As for Woodward's role in all this mess, it's kind of funny to watch the very same people who abhor him because he's is a banker and doesn't understand football standing by his most crucial decision (for the lack of a DoF) regarding the football department which is to appoint and still support Solskjaer. Or maybe he's not doing such a bad job, after all?
Time, no. Time has to be earned with tangible evidence on the line of work. He could get sacked in the evening and it would still be a decision that makes perfect sense based on what he's showing on the pitch over the last 10 months. The only things in his favour are Woodward's incompetence (but Woodward isn't going anywhere) and some blind faith in a vague vision for the future where grey-haired students of SAF lead the new classes of *insert date* and a bunch of talented Brits into glory.
I guess the latter is kind of expected, especially in times of crises. If it was such a struggle to sell the vision of a better future that will look exactly like the past, career politicians would be out of a job. As for Woodward's role in all this mess, it's kind of funny to watch the very same people who abhor him because he's is a banker and doesn't understand football standing by his most crucial decision (for the lack of a DoF) regarding the football department which is to appoint and still support Solskjaer. Or maybe he's not doing such a bad job, after all?
Sadly, achievements in the other Scandinavian leagues wouldn't count for much either I imagine, as the attitude Smyth is talking about extends to all three.Respect yes, time - no way.
I agree and that's what i suspect we will do. Midfield and attack is next imo and then squad depth. It's a process this and for whatever reason the club/ Ole decided to start with the least sexy area of the pitch, the one that fans get exited about the least. Had we started with the mid or attack and lost games 2-3 or 3-4 i think a lot more of us would have "seen" the improvement. Defensive stats are just not very exiting.
When Klopp started he fixed forwards first but they were leaking goals every week. Our weakness is in the forward and midfield area and we can fix this with 4/5 players.
2 of these in January, hopefully.
2 of these in January, hopefully.
Agreed, He's been receiving worse insults than David Gollum ffs!
If the next SAF took over UTD next season and had a start that Ole had this season, or even like SAF did in 1989-1990, nothing would be different here.
People would still be calling for his head etcetc. People seem to be blind to how much of a steaming hot mess we actually are and how much Ole has done since he has taken over.
Bring a new manager in, we would still lose and be back to step 1 when people start calling for his head.
Rinse and repeat.
People would still be calling for his head etcetc. People seem to be blind to how much of a steaming hot mess we actually are and how much Ole has done since he has taken over.
Bring a new manager in, we would still lose and be back to step 1 when people start calling for his head.
Rinse and repeat.
Solskjaer' style isn't so bad it just breaks down in the final third - everything beyond that has been improved since last season. Our stats put us in the top-five in terms of generating space and opportunities - and the only reason we're impotent in terms of creating and scoring is down to our players. They weren't great at it even during Jose's tenure when we had Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez - and losing them without replacing has damaged us even further. Our defense is solid this year and our buildup is decent enough - statistics don't lie in that regard - we just lack that finishing touch and it's not down to our tactics or "style" it's down to those individuals on the pitch being blind, stupid and jittery. They don't see or simply choose to ignore the the opportunities when they do present themselves - making all kinds of silly decisions instead of shipping the ball or themselves off to where they need to be - and even when they do make a run into those spaces or pass the ball to someone who's positioned themselves there - they can't even be trusted to put the ball on an open net or score a penalty. In short - our play is decent and warrants far more than this attacking lineup is able to make of it. Our "style" is not the issue - our structures are all there - it's the pieces that won't fit.
The biggest criticism that can be had against our club at present isn't down to tactics it's down to recruitment - and perhaps also coaching. And I say perhaps here because there's always the possibility that this is as good as these players can get - that they've peaked and no coaching in the world would change that. I mean they didn't exactly impress up front during previous regimes either - so I'm focusing on the constants here and leaning towards that explanation.
Appointing him was a poor decision based on emotion and a leap of faith that he was a much better manager than his career suggested. He’s nowhere near good enough, looks totally out of his depth and I cannot understand this idea of persisting with him because we now have a long term approach.
I respect him and don’t have any worse an opinion of him as he’s doing his best. But we didn’t appoint a good manager and he isn’t going to magically become one. By all means stick with a long term approach but find a better manager to do it.
I respect him and don’t have any worse an opinion of him as he’s doing his best. But we didn’t appoint a good manager and he isn’t going to magically become one. By all means stick with a long term approach but find a better manager to do it.
Whether he deserves more time or not is almost irrelevant. The club made a call to go with Ole and tasked him with a long term rebuild and establishing a better culture at the club.
So, they sell some of the more expensive senior players for the greater good of culture and replace them with young players and 18 year olds from the academy. Doing that, they decimate the depth of the squad and go into the season with a squad that is criminally thin and completely lacking experience. An injury crisis later and people are surprised that the results are crap?
If they sack him now the club will look utterly clueless. They spent just under £150m on his players in the summer. One hundred and fifty million pounds. If history is any indicator, if he is replaced, the first thing his successor will do is look to offload all 3 of his signings, most likely for a considerable loss.
He deserves a chance to have a run of games with a reasonable number of his first 11 available and the club needs to decide on a direction and follow through on it, no matter how idiotic it might seem.
So, they sell some of the more expensive senior players for the greater good of culture and replace them with young players and 18 year olds from the academy. Doing that, they decimate the depth of the squad and go into the season with a squad that is criminally thin and completely lacking experience. An injury crisis later and people are surprised that the results are crap?
If they sack him now the club will look utterly clueless. They spent just under £150m on his players in the summer. One hundred and fifty million pounds. If history is any indicator, if he is replaced, the first thing his successor will do is look to offload all 3 of his signings, most likely for a considerable loss.
He deserves a chance to have a run of games with a reasonable number of his first 11 available and the club needs to decide on a direction and follow through on it, no matter how idiotic it might seem.
I much prefer respect and constructive criticism of Ole over hate and bile, and Symth is right to condemn personal nastiness against him. But most of that article reads to me like mitigation for mitigation's sake; pointing to parallels with Fergie, pointing to injuries, pointing to the shite situation at executive level. Smyth covers the poor results and performances we've had this season in two sentences, then it's on to more mitigation:
Whether you're grudgingly willing to give him more time as we rebuild and worry about changing another manager mid-season is another matter.
If 14 wins from 17 count for something, does the dreadful end to last season count for something too? I tend to agree with @Rood 's opinion on the podcast that both the good and bad from last season should be put to bed and we should focus on what we've produced this year, but if we do that the fact remains (in very difficult circumstances, fully granted) results have been bad, performances have been average at best, mostly bad and there are very few players we can point to as having improved under Ole. I have no interest in personal, nasty comments about a United legend and there are critical factors outside of Ole's control at play but if anyone can say with a straight face they're happy with the fruits of Ole's labours with this team I'll be their booking agent.
Whether you're grudgingly willing to give him more time as we rebuild and worry about changing another manager mid-season is another matter.
I'm not sure what that means either. For me people being less than impressed about Ole's success at Molde is the same as the likes of Neil Lennon not being seen as some top class manager because he succeeded in Scotland (granted there are differences between Celtic's cakewalk and what Molde did in 2011 and 2012). It's purely based on the strength of the league versus the PL, not a slight specifically on Norwegian football.
"The choice is simple: potential long-term success under Solskjær or guaranteed long-term failure under a load of different managers"
Already the headline is ridiculous. First of all, what suggests we could achieve a "long-term success under Ole"? What are the indicators? Second, why would we assume that anyone comes after Ole would be fired shortly and not achieve any success? If we continue doing our model of business, yes, but we're far from being destined to do so.
Already the headline is ridiculous. First of all, what suggests we could achieve a "long-term success under Ole"? What are the indicators? Second, why would we assume that anyone comes after Ole would be fired shortly and not achieve any success? If we continue doing our model of business, yes, but we're far from being destined to do so.
This is a good post and I do not disagree with anything you've written there.
Without the proper structure above him and proper investment, Ole does not appear to be able to squeeze more out of his players than they're worth (compared to someone like Benitez, for example). The football's also poor and awful to watch with no obvious direction.
If anything he's underperforming even with this substandard squad. This is why I think he should go but I know it won't happen before the end of the season.
It's also slightly pointless for it to happen before a proper DoF is appointed which appears to be a pipe dream at this point, so I really don't know what's happening to this
Great read this. I'd want to give him more time atleast till we get our main players back from injury and then judge onwards
Cant remember everyone saying how great his style was at the time.
They will hide from here, if he manages to turn it around.
Everyone was shouting to give him the job full time after 14 games here now these same people want to hang him out to dry. I would love to see us get back to the way we played those first 14 games, but injuries and not replacing some players has been a big reason. Just give Ole the chance of another window and see what he does from there. He deserves that much at least.
This is brilliant. He gets everything wrong. We were just entering our most successful period ever. I wouldn’t listen to a word he says.
Respect has to be earned.
To be fair though teams aren’t attacking us, they haven’t needed to. Just sit back and pick us off so I don’t think this defence is anything like as good as the stats suggest.
We need to forget the Klopp comparisons, he is a top class manager and Ole isn’t so it’s a worthless comparison.
There’s no point in being toxic towards Ole, it should be directed at the owners and Woodward but we can’t pretend we have a great manager.
So he never EARNED respect. Shame
The media are a curious bunch. When they crucify someone it’s nothing personal even when there clearly is an agenda.
But the minute football fans, the ones who make the game worth billions and billions decide a friend of the media and pundits is not good enough. Then suddenly, it’s “hate and disrespect” because clearly football fans do not have intelligence and cannot understand the game logically. Remember same thing was used when fans realised Moyes wasn’t upto it.
Also, look at how “twitter” is mocked to suggest that any opinion coming from twitter must be bs. Well how are fans supposed to voice their opinion? Most journos post on twitter themselves.
I know opinions vary and love that about the game. But I really detest arrogant articles like this. That try to make out that opposing voices are nothing more then impatient cry babies.
But the minute football fans, the ones who make the game worth billions and billions decide a friend of the media and pundits is not good enough. Then suddenly, it’s “hate and disrespect” because clearly football fans do not have intelligence and cannot understand the game logically. Remember same thing was used when fans realised Moyes wasn’t upto it.
Also, look at how “twitter” is mocked to suggest that any opinion coming from twitter must be bs. Well how are fans supposed to voice their opinion? Most journos post on twitter themselves.
I know opinions vary and love that about the game. But I really detest arrogant articles like this. That try to make out that opposing voices are nothing more then impatient cry babies.
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As a manager no. We're not in a position where we can dine out on history from 20 years ago.
I think he needs a couple of transfer windows. Binning him off just to watch Allegri park the bus every week isn’t going to make the fans happy either. I think we just need to accept that we’re going to be gash for a while yet.
As a manager, no.
I disagree. They try but the attacks break down fairly fast. City has more chances created against them then us and they are a much better team and possession based. Teams defend against us because they know how good the defense is and also that we can't create many chances when trying to break low defenses. The teams that try to play "normal" get undone, like Chelsea.
There are major positives in this season for the team but they are not evident to us the fans; we conceded wonder goals from Neves and headers from 2m tall Lindegard and that is seen in the results (also Tuanzebe bad pass vs Arsenal). The defense is genuinely good right now, something i have not seen with United since the days of Ferdinand and Vidic. The mid and attack are complete crap though, especially without Pogba and Martial.
nah he doesn't. Time he doesn't deserve, he got plenty of it. Midtable and relegation fight is the only thing he will achieve, we are not a side that is consistently in the bottom table where everything is shit and he needs to improve slowly. He should be comfortably around the Europa league places right now, but then again, he is obviously out of his depth. Time wont make him better, you are great or you arent. Ole is bang average. He may or may not improve, but not to the extent where we will challenge for anything. We would see the genius here and there if there was one by now.
More time?
Yes if you think that he got the ability as a coach and manager to make this rebuild successful.
No, if you think that this rebuild is based on the wrong foundation i.e. the style of play and the players bought in are not going to be successful in the long term.
Respect?
For his manners, behaviour and borderline naive positivism? Maybe.
For the changes, improvements, ideas etc? Depends on your viewpoint regarding this rebuild.
Yes if you think that he got the ability as a coach and manager to make this rebuild successful.
No, if you think that this rebuild is based on the wrong foundation i.e. the style of play and the players bought in are not going to be successful in the long term.
Respect?
For his manners, behaviour and borderline naive positivism? Maybe.
For the changes, improvements, ideas etc? Depends on your viewpoint regarding this rebuild.
The best part of that article was, he managed to get everything wrong. Must be a new record.
I think the reason for starting with defense is that we were quite bad in that department and leaking goals left right and center. Also in our attack we have some with good potential, youth and existing players in attack and mid and we might have wanted to see how many of them were ready to grab a spot before us going into the market. We came across Rashford due to lack of personnel and him grabbing the chance. We may have wanted to see if there are any other Rashford's we could unearth.
That is an hilarious article, thanks for posting. To be fair his final sentence is bang on:
"Then there is the Glazer factor, the full, inevitable horror of which is only just beginning to emerge. United fans think this season is going to be bad. It hasn't even started."
but the fact it's preceded by this, less than two years before we won a PL CL double:
"And the thing is, it is only going to get worse: Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham have all made shrewd, cheap signings and are going in one direction. United are going the other way: they are hugely dependent on Ferdinand and Rooney, but no number of Carling Cup medals is going to sate their ambition."
makes it completely laughable. People passing off their reading of the runes and predictions for the future as gospel truth is always fun.
I completely agree. Our problem is that the few good players we have in mid and attack got injured and that has decimated our attack play. It's really bad luck in that sense.
Your Right, I agree.