McGrathsipan
Dawn’s less famous husband
Higher Loss rate as well.Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
#oleout
Higher Loss rate as well.Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
Yeah who needs context. Not like klopp needed rebuild Liverpool.It’s not so farcical though is it, it’s a number of games from the beginning of their tenure and the results, the rest is ‘ifs and buts.’
The same ‘ifs and buts’ that are highlighted when it’s a positive thread on Ole and entirely ignored when it’s a negative one.
Like I said, it doesn’t mean Ole is a better Manager, Klopp imo is the best manager on earth, but Ole’s record over those number of games is better whilst needing to complete an entire rebuild (which is where all that money you highlighted went) and whilst spending money is generally a good thing for a manager the fact we needed to spend so much shows how unbalanced the team was for this period of games.
Why would this happen? Ole's main defence is league position (basically what Mou used to fall back on i.e. poor football but he always gets results) if a new manager came in and was in a good position in 6months, people might have reservations about playing style but it would still be early enough to harbour hope for that to improve. Ole has been in charge for coming up to 3 years now (2 months away) but the same issues remain. The bolded makes no sense.The funny thing about right now is the folk who all want rid of Ole ASAP, will literally be saying the same points people are saying about Ole right now, to defend the new manager in 6 months time..........and the vicious circle will keeping going round and round.
Until we actually have a proper plan in place, I'm not sure sacking right now is a wise option if it's just to bring in anyone.
Let's see how the next month pans out, and we access it from there.
He did, they both did. There's your context and why it should lend weight to the stat in the OP bud. I suppose you could add that Ole had two world class managers to compete with during his and far more pressure... but none of that matters, it's a number of games for each in the same competition and one has a better result than the other.Yeah who needs context. Not like klopp needed rebuild Liverpool.
I'm not going to bother spending time in this thread. But the point is that it compares someone to someone the Caf gives imaginary passionate blowies to every time Mo Salah totally doesnt do individual brilliance.
Please don't take it as a defense of Ole, just as a reminder that comparing someone to someone else is a fun activity and sometimes helpful to get your head out of that cesspool of complaints its currenlty in.
But obviously Klopp is a manager with a significantly better pedigree, no one has ever argued that.
Why would this happen? Ole's main defence is league position (basically what Mou used to fall back on i.e. poor football but he always gets results) if a new manager came in and was in a good position in 6months, people might have reservations about playing style but it would still be early enough to harbour hope for that to improve. Ole has been in charge for coming up to 3 years now (2 months away) but the same issues remain. The bolded makes no sense.
People on here just ignore context when they want, ignore the passage of time when they want and clog up the place with these kind of threads. If you want to try and prove Ole can be compared to Klopp (so far it's very obvious they took over different teams, spent differently and one had a clear upward trend versus the other) go for it but don't think people simply want to see a manager sacked for the sake of it when they disagree.
And for that to continue this season it would mean either winning the league or one of the remaining cup competitions. Are you confident of that happening?You'll be happy to know what so we been have over the last 3 years Every season better than the last, this one is no different at this stage.
That's exactly it.The big context missing in this is quality of football. The whole world could see Liverpool were about to go on to great things - there football was improving constantly.
Which stats did people use that were dismissed?Point I'm making is, for last 2 years people have been using stats to show Ole done a good job especially in the league, and got told by folk who just never ever rated him the stats etc are pointless, comparisons are meaningless etc.........you bet if new manager comes in these folk be doing the same thing to show the new manager is progressing nicely. As I say feels like a vicious circle sometimes about this place.
Im not directly comparing klopp myself, clear Ole not on that level as he doesn't the trophies to argue any different.
When you look at the squad we should walk the FA Cup. Even the 2nd string should get to the final. I believe we will challenge in the league, and top four should be doable minimum. CL is more of a lottery but we expect to get out of the group and then it’s anybodies guess how far we can go. Top 4 and a trophy would represent a good season for me.And for that to continue this season it would mean either winning the league or one of the remaining cup competitions. Are you confident of that happening?
Which stats did people use that were dismissed?
Fair and balanced view of it.Its a fair comparison i think but there is a disparogy in the standard of football i think by this time in Klopps reign Liverpool were very much playing his gen gen press.
But the thing is, klopp took over a side that was already playing a high press game under Rodgers so the blueprint was already there for him he just had to tweak it. Ole took over a side that was built for sit back, counter attacking and physical direct football. Not playing out from the back, no pressing and a lack of technical players. Ole has had to completely change the mentality, the tactics, and the type of player that we sign and he's had to do all that while also keeping to the minimum target. So he couldn't just write a season off and implement a tactic that he didn't have the players to do. He has also had to deal with the covid season where there was no pre season and 2 games a week all season so it would be difficult to make big changes to tactics and coach a different philosophy.
This season is where we should be moving into the high press philosophy to dominate games but we are yet to see it, and that is a failure on Oles part, we look a bit muddled I think maybe he is trying to implement it but the players either won't or can't do it. For what it's worth he has got to make big decisions and get the players that can and will do it in the team and the players that won't/can't out of the team. Otherwise if the current form carries on much longer than its gonna cost him his job.
Wonder where he nicked it?Some nice scouse clobber Klopp is wearing
Probably from the bins at the back of a sports shop.Wonder where he nicked it?
Ignoring that the 0.5% difference in win-rate is offset by Klopp's record there being worth more points in the league, fewer defeats and way more goals scored so likely a much better GD....who cares about 1 extra win in the face of that?Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
Stats really are just stats, they are undeniable but people should and will add context everywhere (whether they are right or wrong is another matter!). Apart from those stats about since (random date in a season) to (another random date in a season) we have the best/worst record...those are worthless for me, it really is just season by season otherwise you can cherry pick anything to support any argument.Loads about Ole win record against other United managers, other managers in the league, comparisons in league over a period of time from Bruno came in etc against other clubs and I think maybe only city had more points,.........been many many more can't remember them all but certainly the same folks in here now dismissing the Klopp comparisons as junk, they think all the rest are junk too. People where told they meant nothing he just not good enough, even if the league positions was reflective of massive improvement of what we been doing previously.
Again doesn't take away from the fact we aren't playing well at the moment and looks to be big issues at this present time. But any sort of comparison that dares reflect nicely on the manager is dismissed outright, been the case for last 2 years.
PL | CL | |
Ole | 52.3 | 41.6 |
Mou | 53.7 | 57.4 |
LVG | 51.3 | 50 |
Moyes | 50 | 50 |
Now that’s funny.It seems you have not yet learned how to spell pigeon though.
Havent kept a clean sheet in 19 gamesScored fewer goals, spent more and generally played dross. Would be nice to have last two seasons and xG plus possession and shots. But Ole hasn't got anything compared to Klopp. We have lost 4 of the last 7 games for Christ sake.
Its deeper than this. We saw nothing in offense either. We play 2 combative midfielders to try and compensate, one starts for Brazil. City managed with just Fernandinho along with 2 attacking midfielders. Milner and Hendo did the job for Liverpool. I doubt just signing someone will solve it as we lack cohesion and seem very individual. We also signed Donny etc so the committee did not see CM as necessary. I am sure we could have sold Fred, Jesse and Donny and fetched some cash so I don't know who is choosing what we needWe are indeed but we are to a large extent trying to force 3 players into our starting 11 with next to no bedding in time, one of which provides zero energy, this is highlighting the issues in midfield as we've nothing to hold it all together and are so weak through the middle.
Fernandinho is better defensively than our entire midfield put together. He was perhaps the best DM in the world for a period at City.Its deeper than this. We saw nothing in offense either. We play 2 combative midfielders to try and compensate, one starts for Brazil. City managed with just Fernandinho along with 2 attacking midfielders. Milner and Hendo did the job for Liverpool. I doubt just signing someone will solve it as we lack cohesion and seem very individual. We also signed Donny etc so the committee did not see CM as necessary. I am sure we could have sold Fred, Jesse and Donny and fetched some cash so I don't know who is choosing what we need
Can't fault much what you saying. All opinions end of day.Stats really are just stats, they are undeniable but people should and will add context everywhere (whether they are right or wrong is another matter!). Apart from those stats about since (random date in a season) to (another random date in a season) we have the best/worst record...those are worthless for me, it really is just season by season otherwise you can cherry pick anything to support any argument.
Re win rate, it is what it is...all of them have been average, Ole in the CL has been poor but hopefully that % increases tonight.
PL CL Ole 52.3 41.6 Mou 53.7 57.4 LVG 51.3 50 Moyes 50 50
I agree though some people just won't agree with anything positive or vice versa, the camps are entrenched now. For me Ole has done good stuff off the field at a high level and, though it hasn't been good to watch for me outside of some sporadic big wins, final league position has been on track. I think the truth is he's just run out of time, any manager who has been backed as he has and has the players he has would have to deliver this season and when performances are this disjointed AND we aren't keeping pace with the league leaders, the caf goes a bit potty. If we don't put up a good fight/pick up some points in the next few PL games (Pool, Spurs, City) I think it's over and they'll line someone up to start after the Chelsea game so they have a nice 'easy' run of fixtures.
Yeah you're right sadly, it's almost more fun to talk about other player and teams right now. At least Newcastle's takeover was a big distraction (even if there are loads of posts about Ole sneaking into that thread as well!)Can't fault much what you saying. All opinions end of day.
As you say some are entrenched in extreme views, moderate views getting lost in the madness of the caf at the moment. Every thread is sort of discussing the same topic, even if it's not meant to be.
It has ALWAYS been the midfield. Always. It has been blatantly obvious to me at least for years that we lacked there back to when we shoe horned in the likes of Fellaini and Schneiderlin and the over the hill Schweinstiger.The difference is everyone knew Liverpool's problems in the defense. Meanwhile United's problem seems to change everything just to excuse Ole. First it was CB, then no it's RW, now now it's the midfield.
Greenwood isn't a winger. He should be moved to CF or maybe play as a Econd striker around Cavani/Ronaldo. His strength would be better used there, Sancho can play RW in a different way but also influential and Rashford can keep LW.I don't think Ole is the man for the job and I do think it's just a matter of time. However, I do see a lot of people mentioning the Sancho at RW thing and how we signed him to be our RW and he's always on the left. Have you guys not seen the form Greenwood is in ? He's been by far our most dangerous attacking player this season. Why would you change that ? That's one thing I don't blame Ole for and in fact think he deserves a lot of credit for how he's treated Greenwood from the start.
Because he still has the love of the players and hasn't done a bad job since he started. finshing 3rd, then 2nd and runners up in a European final. He has made progress every year.How can we give more time to someone who still hasn't a style of play after nearly 3 years in charge
He changed that?Its a fair comparison i think but there is a disparogy in the standard of football i think by this time in Klopps reign Liverpool were very much playing his gen gen press.
But the thing is, klopp took over a side that was already playing a high press game under Rodgers so the blueprint was already there for him he just had to tweak it. Ole took over a side that was built for sit back, counter attacking and physical direct football. Not playing out from the back, no pressing and a lack of technical players. Ole has had to completely change the mentality, the tactics, and the type of player that we sign and he's had to do all that while also keeping to the minimum target. So he couldn't just write a season off and implement a tactic that he didn't have the players to do. He has also had to deal with the covid season where there was no pre season and 2 games a week all season so it would be difficult to make big changes to tactics and coach a different philosophy.
This season is where we should be moving into the high press philosophy to dominate games but we are yet to see it, and that is a failure on Oles part, we look a bit muddled I think maybe he is trying to implement it but the players either won't or can't do it. For what it's worth he has got to make big decisions and get the players that can and will do it in the team and the players that won't/can't out of the team. Otherwise if the current form carries on much longer than its gonna cost him his job.
He changed that?
Has spent loads more and has a better squad. Don't even try and compare Ole to Klopp, it just makes you look silly.Some surprising stats that show how Ole compares to the almighty Klopp after 162 games...and lo and behold, the Norwegian has a higher win rate.
Caftards DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC"Red Cafe experts HATE him, stat number 6 will SHOCK you..."
We are certainly more progressive and press more than what we were under mourinho. I will admit though its doesn't exactly look particularly well organised or successful at the moment.He changed that?