Ole & United vs. Frank & Chelsea: who will have the better season?

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by Fortitude, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. Nov 7, 2019

    WeePat Full Member

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    I have to agree, before the season started, Reece James was my pick of the academy graduates. He looks so complete.
  2. Nov 7, 2019

    blue blue Full Member

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    I'm trying to contain myself with him and CHO but its not so easy. CHO hasn't really put in a top performance since coming back but Reece was superb the other night. He made the game look easy and didn't look rushed. His finish for the goal was excellent and his crossing looked to be on a good line. It's strange how he looks so relaxed all the time. I think he is measured in his play and thinks quickly. It looks like he's got it all.

    It looks like CHO needs more time at the higher level before he starts to relax and think a bit more. He has skills and gets into good positions but is falling just a bit short on his final ball/shot. It could click any moment.

    Tomori may come good but at the moment I can't help but feel he will lose his place when Rudiger comes back. Zouma is getting better in each game and those two could be a formidable central pairing if they click. We need to improve at the back and the number of set pieces we have conceded from is a concern. Its OK with the lesser teams because we out score them but the likes of Liverpool and City will cause us big trouble.

    Mount may be injured at the moment, I don't know the latest, but he and CHO will have to fight it out.

    Frank has come in at a really good time as the use of the younger players is essential with the ban. (The board must be loving this and thinking about how much better the finances will be.) He appears to be motivating the whole team with the likes of Kovacic and Jorghino improving under his leadership. He doesn't appear phased by anything in the press conferences, even when the dodgy start happened. I'm sure having a smart, eloquent English speaking manager helps the dressing room. The foreign managers had to contend with a second language and it must inhibit how you get your ideas over. Having lived in a non-English speaking country for a while I know this to be the case. Frank and Jody speak to the young players with authority and intelligence in plain English, not broken and jumbled up English. I find it very difficult to understand a word Emery says. Conte was definitely limited in his communication as all the foreign managers have been, even Mourhino.

    And dare I say it, Ole.
  3. Nov 8, 2019 at 12:46

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    A loss tomorrow at home to Palace is inevitable.
  4. Nov 8, 2019 at 12:52

    fps Full Member

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    Chelsea are so exciting to watch and he enthusiasm and joy in their talents of their young players is really infectious.
  5. Nov 8, 2019 at 12:53

    Raw Full Member

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    So now it's 1-1 in the Manager of the Month score :p
  6. Nov 8, 2019 at 12:58

    Pow Full Member

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    We are quite dodgy at home to be fair. A win and then we can sit back and enjoy the fall out of some tasty fixtures
    Scouse v city
    And
    Liecester v arsenal
    In particular
  7. Nov 9, 2019 at 09:59

    BridgeBanter New Member

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    Still early days but even despite Ole being 2-0 over Frankie on head to head, I think even the most ardent United fans would say the difference in quality between the two managers is night and day thus far.

    The harmony at Chelsea is pretty special thus far. It seemed to be a perfect storm that has created this Chelsea insurgence. Even though Chelsea had a transfer ban, it still would have been easy for any other manager to play the same senior players from last season in the first 11. It took a strong personality as well as a smart driven manager to place faith in the young kids over the other senior players.
  8. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:25

    passing-wind Full Member

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    Better manager / coach than Ole hands down.
  9. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:44

    MaxiPaxi Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert

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    It’s pretty clear who’s better. Frank has managed 2 different teams and England now and is fairly successful with them bot. Ole on the other hand...
  10. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:46

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    Still too early. Things are obviously all rosey for Frank but we are still not even a third of the way through the season.
  11. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:46

    Lee565 Full Member

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    The gulf in class between Lampard and Ole is ridiculous, Lampard is streets ahead of ole. Lampard is actually delivering on the pitch the type stuff Ole speaks about but never actually produces.

    How I wish rather than just talking about it and being a fraud, ole could play the type of football Chelsea are playing and being brave to trust youngster after youngster in premier league matches, we saw it yet again today with Lampard introduces yet another one into the first team with billy gilmour.
  12. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:49

    Pow Full Member

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    Got the win. Can sit back now.
    A city Leicester double will be a great weekend
  13. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:52

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

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    Some of this thread is depressing in hindsight. Chelsea actually have a plan when it comes to breaking down weaker defence minded teams, we are completely clueless. That comes from coaching.

    Why are we such an arrogant fanbase? It's clear as day the infrastructure at Chelsea is vastly superior to ours. They have a far better manager, better experienced players & far better youngsters.

    The only youngster we have who is even in the same ball park as any of theirs is Greenwood. Fair play to Lampard anyway, he's doing a great job and they are a fun watch.

    In fairness to Ole (Devil's Advocate here) the youngsters Chelsea have are leaps and bounds better than ours. I can see Gomes getting the Wilson/TFM treatment on here of being the next world class academy graduate that never was. It took people about 5 years to give up on those two, Gomes will be the same. Tuanzebe, Greenwood & Henderson are our biggest prospects, with Henderson being the most likely to "make it" Gomes, Chong, Garner & Williams will never be top class footballers.
  14. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:53

    SirReginald New Member

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    Ole's CV as manager is really nothing special. His first stint at molde aside. He has yet to show anyone who he is as a manager, something that defines him besides being irritatingly positive after poor performances. Sometimes he comes across like an inexperienced Brendan Roger's 'I have mourinhos number, he was brilliant and I'm in love with him' mentality.

    Tactically, he seems pretty inept and not very creative. Anyone could tell United to have 9 men behind a ball and play fetch with 2 quick players. That's small time mentality. It's easy to say 'lack of squad depth/skill' but we could be sitting here and saying the same thing about chelsea and Lampard. He stood up before the national press and said that isnt what chelsea is about. Everyone thought he was crazy at the time.

    What are Ole's goals? His targets? A good manager instills his ethos and methods into his team so they can push for the best they can be. United have continually come out and said 'project, long term plan' but in any business poor results gets you sacked regardless of funds.

    Ole needs to be more firm and clear about his expectations and stop accepting shite as good

    As a coach, he clearly offers very little, which is surprising as he surely should be coaching the forwards at least.
  15. Nov 9, 2019 at 15:59

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    Laird? Williams? Greenwood?
  16. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:11

    SkeppyRed Lineups Game Winner 2012/13

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    He’s already beaten him twice this season.
  17. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:12

    Lee565 Full Member

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    And how many minutes have they trusted with in the premier league, not the league cup or the Europa league and even then Solskjear tends to still pick more senior players over them in them competitions as well. The likes of Tuanzebe and dalot couldn't even get starts in the premier league until we were bare to the bones in defensive areas.

    Tuanzebe should have been given a chance next to either lindelof or smalling this season rather than wasting 80 million on Maguire. As I said Frank delivers good on what he says but Ole only speaks a good game.
  18. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:13

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    Doesn't matter if we can't beat the other teams and he can.
  19. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:13

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    Transfer ban kinda forced Lampard's hand. If he had £150 million to spend like Ole did, he would have spent it.
  20. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:19

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    How many minutes did brave Frank (at 2-0) give Gilmour?

    3?
  21. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:20

    Untd55 Full Member

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    Irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Lampard has won the majority of his matches; Solskjaer has either lost or drawn the vast majority of his matches.

    Chelsea's defence are dodgy, but their attack is really good. Their play style is entertaining, being quick and incisive. It shows you don't need years and years, whilst taking the team into the lower half of the table, to make a team entertaining and able to win games.
  22. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:21

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    More than double that! 7.
  23. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:25

    Lee565 Full Member

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    Would he though, he seemed brave enough to let Luiz go and continue to play tomori in central defence, he plays abraham over the more senior strikers and mouht has been mainstay in the side, he could have easily chosen the more senior players he has at his disposal this season but has still trusted the youngsters in big matches in both the premier league and champions league.

    Lampard use of the youngster rather than relying on the more senior players is laying fantastic foundations for the next season, he has created a scenario where he doesnt have to buy loads of players in the summer to fill gaps and replace ageing players, he can easily get away with buying just one world class player like sancho and they could go into the next season even stronger.

    Where as Solskjear keeps playing f'ing Ashley young over the likes of dalot and williams.
  24. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:26

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    I had an idea (I was listening to game on Talksport). Just making the point to A N Other.

    His point was Frank Vs Ole in giving league minutes to youth. As a Chelsea fan (and a balanced one), has Frank given much time to youth players in the PL? (and obviously we're not talking Mount).
  25. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:29

    Lee565 Full Member

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    And... he ain't Mourinho or Solskjear giving players token 3 or 4 minute cameos, you know there is a very good chance that the minutes for gilmour increase further to the point that he will be starting matches within the next few months based on how Frank has trusted in a lot of the youngsters already so far.
  26. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:30

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    More so than any Chelsea manager I can remember. He dropped even our captain today to start 19 year old Reece James.
  27. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:31

    MrPooni Full Member

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    Considering the laundry list of top managers Lampard has had the privilege of working under over his career, he was bound to be a step ahead of Ole and his Diet Fergie act. Fair play to him.
  28. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:35

    Crashoutcassius Full Member

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    Doing well. Was Ole's record in first 15 games better though?
  29. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:36

    LJJT Full Member

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    It’s crazy to even compare the two. They are both working in completely different conditions with different squads of players. The Chelsea squad and their youngsters are far better than ours and im not interested in any one else telling arguing to me other wise. Fair play to Frank he’s a nice guy but he’s no saviour he’s just 3 months in to the job. Long way to go yet for him and ole this season
  30. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:40

    DomesticTadpole Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.

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    It's good for Frank that he has this season with no real pressure, can bed these kids in, get his ideas across and then once the ban is lifted can strengthen the team. Think he will have a really good team on his hands.
  31. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:40

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    No. I don't know that. If you're that pally with Frank and know that, great.

    Gone from Frank gives youth minutes/Ole doesn't ... to only league games count ..... to (when stats show Ole has given more minutes and debuted more youth players in the PL) the gift of second sight to know that Frank's few minute cameos mean something bigger than say Laird or Greenwoods.

    I don't dismiss Frank's record with Derby or Chelsea... I don't know why some fans are so desperate to twist things for Oles.
  32. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:41

    Bobcat Full Member

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    Chelsea have been quite good and has put plenty of smaller sides to the sword, but they struggle against better opponents
    In the PL they had: Norwich(A), Sheffield U(H), Wolves(A), Brighton(H), Soton(A), Newcastle(A), Brigton(A), Watford(A), Palace(H). 8 wins and 1 draw. That is really fecking good, but it not the most difficult fixture list either

    Meanwhile against "better sides"
    Man Utd(A), Liverpool (N), Leichester(H), Liverpool(H), Man Utd(H), they have 1 draw and 4 losses
  33. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:44

    BeforeKeanetherewasRobson Full Member

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    Agree (though Chelsea's past of money spent and certain managers chucking talented youth out the door does impact on youth players stats tbf?)

    Don't argue Frank trusts youth if they're good enough. Don't argue his recent (limited) Chelsea record is good. Just don't see him as some great promoter of youth Vs Ole .... imo.
  34. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:46

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    Man United are in the "better sides" catagory when they are below Shefield United, Palace and Brighton, really?

    Also, did we really "struggle" against Liverpool in the super cup? it was a draw!
  35. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:52

    Lee565 Full Member

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    Is it not somewhat more proof that Ole wasted the transfer money in the wrong area (mainly 80 million for maguire). Chelsea have been without rudiger for the season and zouma has been a 1st team player in their central defence and you cant tell me without signing Maguire and instead keeping smalling plus the addition of Tuanzebe back from a good loan spell that we would have had a worse defence than chelsea. It's in midfield and attack where Chelsea look stronger than us, which is the two areas Solskjear weakened the side since taking over.
  36. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:53

    Untd55 Full Member

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    It is more important to beat the lower teams, though, as there are far more of them and more points to take.

    They do have to improve against the bigger teams, but I think that is mainly due to their dodgy defence. They have put in some good performances in their recent big games, such as Liverpool and the League Cup against Manutd. Their defence has cost them, though.

    Once they fix their defensive issues, I think they will be taking quite a few points from those type of fixtures as well.
  37. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:54

    filibuster New Member

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    I think from the get-go Lampard was in a better position to Ole to succeed this season.

    Ole has to prove now, but the transfer decisions are questionable. You don't know whether to put that down to Ole or the board, so it is very unclear what is happening. I am not sure another manager with the same set of players would do much better than Ole, really. But I do agree that maybe another manager wouldn't want to let go some of the players that you had over the summer.

    Lampard was in a position of freedom to make his mark on this young team, and it benefits him a lot because he knows the club inside-out, and also has a strong bond with most of his players. It is just a very fortunate mix of his personality and young coach charisma, together with Chelsea's excellent youth set-up.

    Lampard wouldn't have had the same positive results with Manchester United, that's for sure.
  38. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:54

    Feed Me I'm hungry

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    Embarrassing thread from a United perspective.

    Chelsea have a competent manager.
  39. Nov 9, 2019 at 16:56

    Liver_bird Full Member

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    Comfortably the third best side in the league.
  40. Nov 9, 2019 at 17:20

    Orc Pretended to be a United fan for two years

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    Will be very interesting to see what Frank does in January if CAS says we can sign players. Think Giroud and Pedro would both be off so a forward/attacker of some sort is what we are rumored to be after.

    Our squad is pretty deep everywhere so I don't think we'd bring in anyone else. We were said to be interested in Jadon Sancho. Wonder if Dortmund would go for a buy and loan back until the summer deal like we did with Pulisic. Imagine him together with our other young talent! :eek:
  41. Nov 9, 2019 at 17:31

    Bobcat Full Member

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    That's why i used quotation marks