Ole & United vs. Frank & Chelsea: who will have the better season?

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It’s crazy to even compare the two. They are both working in completely different conditions with different squads of players. The Chelsea squad and their youngsters are far better than ours and im not interested in any one else telling arguing to me other wise. Fair play to Frank he’s a nice guy but he’s no saviour he’s just 3 months in to the job. Long way to go yet for him and ole this season
Of course you’re not interested because it’a something that would’ve been laughed at if said just 3 months ago.

They look better now of course but claiming their squad is suddenly “far better” is beyond laughable @LJJT
 

Dancfc

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Is the manager bounce still in play here or is Frank an actually decent manager ?
For a rookie manager in the premier league he is doing very well.
We won 2 in our first 8, we didn't have a new manager bounce.

Furthermore, some of our playing patterns can't be explained away with a new manager bounce, takes some serious quality coaching to train the way we play.
 

BridgeBanter

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Will be very interesting to see what Frank does in January if CAS says we can sign players. Think Giroud and Pedro would both be off so a forward/attacker of some sort is what we are rumored to be after.

Our squad is pretty deep everywhere so I don't think we'd bring in anyone else. We were said to be interested in Jadon Sancho. Wonder if Dortmund would go for a buy and loan back until the summer deal like we did with Pulisic. Imagine him together with our other young talent! :eek:
Sancho on this Chelsea team would be devastating. It would make sense plus he is a Chelsea fan and pretty close with some of the other young players on the team.
 

Stacks

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It’s crazy to even compare the two. They are both working in completely different conditions with different squads of players. The Chelsea squad and their youngsters are far better than ours and im not interested in any one else telling arguing to me other wise. Fair play to Frank he’s a nice guy but he’s no saviour he’s just 3 months in to the job. Long way to go yet for him and ole this season
Hazard carried them and left for Madrid. They barely finished above us last season with their best player. Their squad is ok but not that many great players. Many tipped them to miss out on top 4 with championship proven youngsters and Hazard leaving. The "working with different players" is the same case for all manager's and yet we compare them as to how well they are doing in their jobs irrespective of the conditions. Chelsea were not even able to sign anyone
 
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Hazard carried them and left for Madrid. They barely finished above us last season with their best player. Their squad is ok but not that many great players. Many tipped them to miss out on top 4 with championship proven youngsters and Hazard leaving. The "working with different players" is the same case for all manager's and yet we compare them as to how well they are doing in their jobs irrespective of the conditions. Chelsea were not even able to sign anyone
It's just another excuse for our management doing a shite job thus far. Why can't fans just hold their hands up and admit that right now, Frank Lampard is doing a way better job than Ole Gunnar Solskjær? :confused:
 

TheThingThatShouldNotBe

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If Sarri was still manager we’d most likely be lining up like this:

Kepa

Alonso
Luiz
Zouma
Azpi

Jorginho
Kante
Kovacic

Willian
Giroud
Pedro

Maybe Pulisic instead of Pedro and Rudiger in for Zouma when fit. James, Tomori, Mount and Abraham would be at best on the bench.

Seems the goalposts have moved so to not give credit where it’s due, no doubt the knives will also be out when we inevitably go through a rough patch.
 

Lee565

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If Sarri was still manager we’d most likely be lining up like this:

Kepa

Alonso
Luiz
Zouma
Azpi

Jorginho
Kante
Kovacic

Willian
Giroud
Pedro

Maybe Pulisic instead of Pedro and Rudiger in for Zouma when fit. James, Tomori, Mount and Abraham would be at best on the bench.

Seems the goalposts have moved so to not give credit where it’s due, no doubt the knives will also be out when we inevitably go through a rough patch.
Will they though, before the season everyone wrote of Chelsea's chances of getting champions league qualification with the transfer ban and loss of certain players but with the way Frank has given the academy players a chance in the premier league and champions league whilst playing entertaining, progressive style of football, plus you can clearly see him developing the young players for the better. Chelsea could finish 6th this season and still Lampard will be praised because it's clear to see his leading the club in the right direction.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Will be very interesting to see what Frank does in January if CAS says we can sign players. Think Giroud and Pedro would both be off so a forward/attacker of some sort is what we are rumored to be after.

Our squad is pretty deep everywhere so I don't think we'd bring in anyone else. We were said to be interested in Jadon Sancho. Wonder if Dortmund would go for a buy and loan back until the summer deal like we did with Pulisic. Imagine him together with our other young talent! :eek:
I'm expecting a very large bid for Chilwell also. Leicester may be reluctant to sell but perhaps a loan until the end of season could be arranged also.

Sancho is for sure the team's top priority though. Willian has been very good this season but Sancho would be devastating.
 

Ish

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Hazard carried them and left for Madrid. They barely finished above us last season with their best player. Their squad is ok but not that many great players. Many tipped them to miss out on top 4 with championship proven youngsters and Hazard leaving. The "working with different players" is the same case for all manager's and yet we compare them as to how well they are doing in their jobs irrespective of the conditions. Chelsea were not even able to sign anyone
It's just another excuse for our management doing a shite job thus far. Why can't fans just hold their hands up and admit that right now, Frank Lampard is doing a way better job than Ole Gunnar Solskjær? :confused:
This. Our bar has truly been lowered and/or goalposts shifted.
 

filibuster

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I am a little against signing Sancho, to be honest. I think he would just command a very large salary from the get-go, and he is the same age as the majority of our young players. He is good but he is not absolutely better than the others to be paid twice as much.

Our home-grown / English quota is fine, and maybe it is wiser to look at other players, similar to Willian who can balance our attack and offer different qualities. Players like Chiesa or Ziyech would suit this role better.
 

LJJT

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It's good for Frank that he has this season with no real pressure, can bed these kids in, get his ideas across and then once the ban is lifted can strengthen the team. Think he will have a really good team on his hands.
Yes I agree. I think the united board h
Hazard carried them and left for Madrid. They barely finished above us last season with their best player. Their squad is ok but not that many great players. Many tipped them to miss out on top 4 with championship proven youngsters and Hazard leaving. The "working with different players" is the same case for all manager's and yet we compare them as to how well they are doing in their jobs irrespective of the conditions. Chelsea were not even able to sign anyone
Last year they played straight jacket sari ball with a boss who could barely speak English. They under achieved last year but still got top 4 and won Europa. These youngsters Lampard has he has had zero input to any bar mount and maybe another all the rest have had great loans over last few years like James and Abraham. Their players are far better than ours there’s no debate in that in my view. Pointless comparison on managers you’d never want Lampard as a united manager
 

didierforever

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We've apparently lost our best player, signed nobody new, have a donkey upfront, can't defend and have a manager who couldn't get out of the championship.

If Chelsea finish above any of the other top 6, their managers should all be sacked.
Hahahahaha. Oh man this really made my day.... Hahahahaha. Donkey indeed
 

blue blue

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Yes I agree. I think the united board h


Last year they played straight jacket sari ball with a boss who could barely speak English. They under achieved last year but still got top 4 and won Europa. These youngsters Lampard has he has had zero input to any bar mount and maybe another all the rest have had great loans over last few years like James and Abraham. Their players are far better than ours there’s no debate in that in my view. Pointless comparison on managers you’d never want Lampard as a united manager


United have a history of taking ex Chelsea managers so I don't see why Lampard would be the exception.
 

Harry Harries

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Chelsea have done a good job of beating the teams they needed to after losing to us and Liverpool and drawing to Leicester and Sheffield United. Our form (along with Spurs and Arsenal) has been so bad that they can probably afford to keep losing to the top 6/7 teams so long as they keep beating the bottom 11/12. Bunch of flattrack bullies!
 

Sky1981

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Chelsea have done a good job of beating the teams they needed to after losing to us and Liverpool and drawing to Leicester and Sheffield United. Our form (along with Spurs and Arsenal) has been so bad that they can probably afford to keep losing to the top 6/7 teams so long as they keep beating the bottom 11/12. Bunch of flattrack bullies!
Most top 4 teams are flattrack bullies. Cant afford not to.

The reason why chelsea are 3rd and we're not is that they bullied the bad teams
 

KennyBurner

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I wonder were we would be had we not suffered injuries to Martial and Pogba? Has lampard had any of his key players out for close to 3 months?

I genuinely think were much better than chelsea. The difference is they have no problems getting rid of bottom teams unlike us because all their creative players have been available. Also chelsea have a much better management than we do which has seen an easy transition even without a transfer window. I still think we can finish ahead of them if our players stay fit.
 

Harry Harries

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Most top 4 teams are flattrack bullies. Cant afford not to.

The reason why chelsea are 3rd and we're not is that they bullied the bad teams
Yep, that's what I was alluding to in the second sentence. What you'll also often see, though, is teams with top 4 aspirations drop points to teams they should be beating, but then making up the difference (and still getting top 4) by scalping some of the top teams. We've just dropped too many points to too many teams we should be beating! Very frustrating.
 

Dancfc

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I wonder were we would be had we not suffered injuries to Martial and Pogba? Has lampard had any of his key players out for close to 3 months?
Rudigers played a mere 45 minutes all season while Kante has only started 4 league games. Emerson, Christensen, James and Callum have all missed fair chunks of the season too. RLC hasn't played atall yet, arguably our best player last season behind the one we've sold and couldn't replace.

We're the last club you can play the 'lucky with injuries' card too.
 

duffer

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Rudigers played a mere 45 minutes all season while Kante has only started 4 league games. Emerson, Christensen, James and Callum have all missed fair chunks of the season too.

We're the last club you can play the 'lucky with injuries' card too.
RLC as well.
 

OleTheGreat

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Chelsea is in a better position than us because they have more quality n their academy graduates than we do and also Lampard has done well to really give these players a chance to prove themselves. He has also potentially given the youngsters the momentum necessary to keep rolling away from bad results and concentrate on beating the teams in the bottom half of the table while Ole and his team of youngsters have struggled away from home against meager teams (no disrespect). We will find our momentum when Pogba returns and maybe get Chilwell, Maddison, and Rice to go with a good player on the RW. We can even wait on Chilwell but we definitely need Maddison to play alongside Pogba in the midfield.

De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Williams/Shaw
Mctominay
Maddison Pogba
James/new RW Martial Rashford

We can get back to the top4 if we gather momentum with this line-up and by the looks of it, that line-up has immense potential and quality to not just beat Lampard's XI but also get into the Top4 comfortably!
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Rudigers played a mere 45 minutes all season while Kante has only started 4 league games. Emerson, Christensen, James and Callum have all missed fair chunks of the season too. RLC hasn't played atall yet, arguably our best player last season behind the one we've sold and couldn't replace.

We're the last club you can play the 'lucky with injuries' card too.
I'm not really sure how your injuries is comparable to our injuries. We lost both our best forward (Martial) & our best midfielder (Pogba) at the same time which greatly hurt us in our attack and team creativity. I supposed may be you should take into account how Chelsea will perform with both Mount & Abraham being injured at the same period of time.
 

sunama

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Rudigers played a mere 45 minutes all season while Kante has only started 4 league games. Emerson, Christensen, James and Callum have all missed fair chunks of the season too. RLC hasn't played atall yet, arguably our best player last season behind the one we've sold and couldn't replace.

We're the last club you can play the 'lucky with injuries' card too.
I think some MUFC fans are making excuses for our poor performance.
They simply don't want to admit that mid table is a terrible position to be in.
If injuries to 2 players in your entire squad can derail your season, the manager in charge should be instantly dismissed.
 

Dancfc

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I'm not really sure how your injuries is comparable to our injuries. We lost both our best forward (Martial) & our best midfielder (Pogba) at the same time which greatly hurt us in our attack and team creativity. I supposed may be you should take into account how Chelsea will perform with both Mount & Abraham being injured at the same period of time.
Our best defender and best CM have barely been fit all season, our second biggest goal threat last season hasn't kicked a ball all season while the first one left without the chance of replacement.

People were mercilessly laughing at the lineup we put out at Old Trafford and now because these players have proved people wrong all off a sudden we've been good all along?

That said, I do think Kenny has a point in the sense that the difference between the two sides isn't as big as the table is making it look, but he's talking out of his arse when implying one of the main reasons for that is that we've been lucky with injuries, I don't think we've had players go down as systematically as they're doing now since the period we had to play Essien in defense.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Our best defender and best CM have barely been fit all season, our second biggest goal threat last season hasn't kicked a ball all season while the first one left without the chance of replacement.

People were mercilessly laughing at the lineup we put out at Old Trafford and now because these players have proved people wrong all off a sudden we've been good all along?

That said, I do think Kenny has a point in the sense that the difference between the two sides isn't as big as the table is making it look, but he's talking out of his arse when implying one of the main reasons for that is that we've been lucky with injuries, I don't think we've had players go down as systematically as they're doing now since the period we had to play Essien in defense.
So?

Losing both Kante & Rudiger affect Chelsea's defensively but not offensively. Which very clear reflects the reality that United has been the better team in defense with lowest expected goal’s against in the league even though we lost our best left back in the squad from the start of the season. While Offensively you have been much better than us because in majority of the season we lost Pogba & Martial, our most creative player & our only centre forward.
 

Dancfc

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So?

Losing both Kante & Rudiger affect Chelsea's defensively but not offensively. Which very clear reflects the reality that United has been the better team in defense with lowest expected goal’s against in the league even though we lost our best left back in the squad from the start of the season. While Offensively you have been better than us because in majority of the season we lost Pogba & Martial, our most creative player & our only centre forward.
Our three biggest goal threats in the league last season were Hazard, Loftus Cheek and Higuain. Two left and one has been injured all season.

Just because Mount, Christian and Tammy have stepped up doesn't mean we started from a privileged position or we haven't lost some massive player's, the party line back in August was that there was no goals in our team.
 

WeePat

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So?

Losing both Kante & Rudiger affect Chelsea's defensively but not offensively. Which very clear reflects the reality that United has been the better team in defense with lowest expected goal’s against in the league even though we lost our best left back in the squad from the start of the season. While Offensively you have been much better than us because in majority of the season we lost Pogba & Martial, our most creative player & our only centre forward.
In fairness, we're bottom half in goals conceded, so those injuries have impacted us quite a bit. We were conceding about 2 goals per game through the first 6-7 weeks this season. We've eventually to overcome this by relentlessly outscoring opponents (4th highest in the league) and gradually shoring up the defence (we've gone from second worst in the league to about mid-table).
 

Harry Harries

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Our three biggest goal threats in the league last season were Hazard, Loftus Cheek and Higuain. Two left and one has been injured all season.

Just because Mount, Christian and Tammy have stepped up doesn't mean we started from a privileged position or we haven't lost some massive player's, the party line back in August was that there was no goals in our team.
You had a £50m+ yank starlet come in! You were also doing everything you could to make CHO stay by offering him main man status with main man wages to boot. All this not to discount the injuries you've had.
 

OleTheGreat

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It is still ridiculous to say Lampard's Chelsea is better than Ole's United but after watching the Ajax game. I have a slight change of heart. It may be true that Chelsea are a little better than us right now but we all know that it won't last a long time, we will get there and better them soon. Pogba is coming!
 

amolbhatia50k

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Rudigers played a mere 45 minutes all season while Kante has only started 4 league games. Emerson, Christensen, James and Callum have all missed fair chunks of the season too. RLC hasn't played atall yet, arguably our best player last season behind the one we've sold and couldn't replace.

We're the last club you can play the 'lucky with injuries' card too.
Yeah I don't think it's to do with luck, injuries etc or much is gained out of analysis of small teams/big teams results. It's in the how well managed the two teams appear to be that gives a stronger answer. And Chelsea have looked better coached all season.
 

amolbhatia50k

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It is still ridiculous to say Lampard's Chelsea is better than Ole's United but after watching the Ajax game. I have a slight change of heart. It may be true that Chelsea are a little better than us right now but we all know that it won't last a long time, we will get there and better them soon. Pogba is coming!
How is it ridiculous? It's clearly true based on the football so far.
 

Dancfc

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It is still ridiculous to say Lampard's Chelsea is better than Ole's United but after watching the Ajax game. I have a slight change of heart. It may be true that Chelsea are a little better than us right now but we all know that it won't last a long time, we will get there and better them soon. Pogba is coming!
What was it about the Ajax game that made you change your mind? Out of curiosity.
 

Pow

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You had a £50m+ yank starlet come in! You were also doing everything you could to make CHO stay by offering him main man status with main man wages to boot. All this not to discount the injuries you've had.
What ? We lost a player that contributed 49 % of all goals last year through scoring or assisting and our second best players played like 2 games.
 

AshRK

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I still think jury is yet to be out for Lampard. Apart from Ajax away game, even where they could have easily lost, his tactics in big games looks average. It's all good so far but he has to be careful while playing against big dogs. They have city next and that will be a test of his tactics again.
 

Harry Harries

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What ? We lost a player that contributed 49 % of all goals last year through scoring or assisting and our second best players played like 2 games.
What what? Did you read my post? I went out of my way to note that you’ve obviously had injuries. Yes you lost Hazard, Pulisic (who was signed for major money) was his replacement. You also had a really talented batch of young players come back from successful loans.
 

Pow

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What what? Did you read my post? I went out of my way to note that you’ve obviously had injuries. Yes you lost Hazard, Pulisic (who was signed for major money) was his replacement. You also had a really talented batch of young players come back from successful loans.
Pulisic is an unproven 20 year old regardless of money. Not comparable to eden last year in the slightest who carried the side.
None of the loans were in the pl though.
Weve started this season down our best player our best cm our best cm loftus cheek with a squad full of unproven players that were ridiculed at the first game.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Our three biggest goal threats in the league last season were Hazard, Loftus Cheek and Higuain. Two left and one has been injured all season.

Just because Mount, Christian and Tammy have stepped up doesn't mean we started from a privileged position or we haven't lost some massive player's, the party line back in August was that there was no goals in our team.
We lost Lukaku & Sanchez. So what's your point? What matters is what happen this season not what happened last season.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Chelsea will finish top 4, I'm confident of that - whereas as we are, we'll be lucky to finish 6th. Lampard has more or less got Chelsea coached to a point where 9/10 times they will whip the smaller teams who park the bus. That is how you rack up the points at the end of the day. His Chelsea team are fragile defensively so they'll struggle against the big teams I reckon but that won't matter really. Next summer, when their ban is lifted, if he's backed I see Lampard having a very strong team next season.