Ole & United vs. Frank & Chelsea: who will have the better season?

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
5,337
Location
Canada
Not downplaying it. winning the league and the league Cup is Great, for example. But we are not that kind of a team right now.
Winning the league cup would have been a surprise act. Even if we win against United the likelihood of us winning it would have been low.
I would prefer winning a trophy than not winning at all. I still think chelsea with this squad would have benfitted winning a silverware.
 

UweBein

Full Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
2,143
Location
Köln
Supports
Chelsea
Do not see it that way, honestly.

Now, winning the CL - I would take that fluke gladly. Although only because it‘s a precious and rare silverware. But even that would not benefit the squad- IMO.

It‘s a process, and we simply ain‘t there yet.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,090
The way this thread swings is killing me.

We started the game way too passively but still thought we were the better team. Doesn’t matter though, the end score is what counts.

I have to add, is Michy now worth £90m for making Maguire look very ordinary during his goal. Lack of pace is a big issue for Maguire and he will get caught out many more times this season.

Still it’s been a great season so far and I’m delighted with how we are playing under Frank.
One moment in the game doesn't justify enough to judge player like that. Apart from that just one goal, Maguire was bossing & taming Michy yesterday. Barely see Michy being threat at all in that game apart from one moment from his goal.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,090
I never said we were like peak Barca I just said Ole is another example of a poor manager somehow getting the better of us constantly, like Kenny and the declined Wenger.

I actually think on paper your team should be up where we are in the table and I think with a more capable manager you will be, I've always had a soft spot for Ole as a person but as a manager I think he'll never get United in top four let alone anything else (of course if I eventually turn out to be wrong I'll hold my hands up).
We had some injuries which really affect our performance & playing style. Martial & Pogba are our best player, when you lose two of your best player then any manager would struggle as well. Our squad is not as big as City. Imagine Klopp losing both Mane & Salah, Emery losing both Aubameyang & Laca, Spurs losing both Kane & Son, Leicester losing both Vardy & Tielemans or Maddison.

However, I'm not trying to say even with those two back doesn't mean Ole is capable to carry us. Time will tell, this is his decision that he made relying on Martial & Rashford as our main forwards and signing defenders & I will put my faith in him until end of the season at least. But losing two of your best players due to injuries is sucks.
 

KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Staff
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
47,566
Carabao cup is a shite trophy though. Lets not pretend it isnt. If you win it, great a trophy, if you go out? who cares. It's why clubs make so many changes and play youth, even in semi finals
There is not one chairman in the EPL who says to his manager "this season i want you to win the Carabao cup" of that i am certain


Was 2 weaker sides last night who clearly have better priorities.
It's a pretty shit trophy but it's also the best chance of both of our clubs to win a trophy. A trophy is never bad.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
1,646
Supports
Chelsea
We had some injuries which really affect our performance & playing style. Martial & Pogba are our best player, when you lose two of your best player then any manager would struggle as well. Our squad is not as big as City. Imagine Klopp losing both Mane & Salah, Emery losing both Aubameyang & Laca, Spurs losing both Kane & Son, Leicester losing both Vardy & Tielemans or Maddison.

However, I'm not trying to say even with those two back doesn't mean Ole is capable to carry us. Time will tell, this is his decision that he made relying on Martial & Rashford as our main forwards and signing defenders & I will put my faith in him until end of the season at least. But losing two of your best players due to injuries is sucks.
I could be wrong but weren't Martial and Pogba both playing all through August when you won 1 in 4?

I think Ole's system is far too negative for a club like United, he reminds me of Martin O Neil managing Villa (which with respect to Villa is not something you should be saying about a United manager) in the sense that he heavily relies on counter with pace up top, a system that gives you a respectable record in big games but leaves you clueless against teams that sit back and deny you any space and that ultimately will prevent you (under Ole) from being properly competitive.

I do personally believe a more progressive manager will have you higher in the table, even with the injuries you've had so far.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

Full Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,090
I could be wrong but weren't Martial and Pogba both playing all through August when you won 1 in 4?

I think Ole's system is far too negative for a club like United, he reminds me of Martin O Neil managing Villa (which with respect to Villa is not something you should be saying about a United manager) in the sense that he heavily relies on counter with pace up top, a system that gives you a respectable record in big games but leaves you clueless against teams that sit back and deny you any space and that ultimately will prevent you (under Ole) from being properly competitive.

I do personally believe a more progressive manager will have you higher in the table, even with the injuries you've had so far.
Martial was injured after gameweek 3, it happened in that gameweek 3 against Palace when he was limping. It's 1 in 3. The game against Chelsea when we won 4-0, the game against Wolves when I thought we actually played well and should have won if Pogba didn't miss the penalty & the lost against Palace though that game was always tough against Roy's side.

Losing Martial was critical since he is our only centre forward in the squad. No striker where can we score? Rashford's spectacular set pieces? :lol:

To be honest we are not only counter with pace up top, we are also relied on counter pressing like Liverpool's Klopp. Of course Ole is not naive enough to apply the same tactic against some team that have better squad's quality than us.

Whether Ole is the right man or no who knows time will tell. But so far there are mix sign of positive & negative. However, I like the positive that Ole brings compared to our previous managers, the 3 signings he made, massive improvement in defense, willing to give young players chances, seems focusing to build his team around our talented players like Martial & Rashford which what we should have done since 2016. Some United fans think his idea (such as focusing too much in summer window improving his defense, relying too much on young players like Martial, Rashford, McTomminay & Greenwood after losing Lukaku & Herrera) is poor but I think I can understand what the benefit of his idea in term of going forward.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
72,645
Location
india
I would prefer winning a trophy than not winning at all. I still think chelsea with this squad would have benfitted winning a silverware.
True. But it's better to make progress. Remember the ridiculous arguments in favour of Jose over Klopp because he won trophies. Would happily trade the Europa for actual progress.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
5,337
Location
Canada
True. But it's better to make progress. Remember the ridiculous arguments in favour of Jose over Klopp because he won trophies. Would happily trade the Europa for actual progress.
We started to regress after the sevilla game. I would say at the end of 2016-17 we were in a strong position in comparison to Liverpool. We were making progress but the Jose chose to be Jose and destroyed everything he built. I would still say the summer fo 2018 was the worst for the club. Jose should have been sacked then and a new direction should have been adopted.
 

SirReginald

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
26
Supports
Chelsea
My opinion on the cup match is that neither team were particularly good.

Congratulations on the win but scoring 2 set pieces, particularly the great freekick when you all claim he should be removed from freekicks, hints at a little luck. But you make your luck, so fair play. Reminded me of the worldy Henderson scored against us, he probably couldn't repeat it.

What I will say though, is you made a relatively inexperienced 18 year old centreback look like a seasoned pro. That needs to be highlighted as a big worry for you guys. You exploited alonso like every team with pace does, he is too slow to play as a regular left back. Guehi wasnt troubled.

As for Chelsea, our midfield was too deep, leaving the wingers and striker isolated, if that was your game plan, well done. But this is what you get when you trust kids, you get some good performances and some not so good.

Either way, I think our team is getting stronger all the time and I will continue to accept the good with the bad.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
1,646
Supports
Chelsea
My opinion on the cup match is that neither team were particularly good.

Congratulations on the win but scoring 2 set pieces, particularly the great freekick when you all claim he should be removed from freekicks, hints at a little luck. But you make your luck, so fair play. Reminded me of the worldy Henderson scored against us, he probably couldn't repeat it.

What I will say though, is you made a relatively inexperienced 18 year old centreback look like a seasoned pro. That needs to be highlighted as a big worry for you guys. You exploited alonso like every team with pace does, he is too slow to play as a regular left back. Guehi wasnt troubled.

As for Chelsea, our midfield was too deep, leaving the wingers and striker isolated, if that was your game plan, well done. But this is what you get when you trust kids, you get some good performances and some not so good.

Either way, I think our team is getting stronger all the time and I will continue to accept the good with the bad.
Reece James looked excellent aswell, looked much more well rounded compared to his opposite number.
 

Supermonkey_Wolf

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
15
Location
London
Supports
Chelsea
Lampard has the opposite vice to Ole - he's too youth happy. Multiple times this season he's been naive.

There's was no reason to use the 6th choice cb against United. Gilmour's skillset is basically a carbon copy of Jorginho, to play both with kovacic meant there were no runners inbetween the lines. There was no reason to play those other than to rest the others.

Reece James on the other hand is going to be first team by next season.
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
1,646
Supports
Chelsea
Lampard has the opposite vice to Ole - he's too youth happy. Multiple times this season he's been naive.

There's was no reason to use the 6th choice cb against United. Gilmour's skillset is basically a carbon copy of Jorginho, to play both with kovacic meant there were no runners inbetween the lines. There was no reason to play those other than to rest the others.

Reece James on the other hand is going to be first team by next season.
I agree Gilmour shouldn't have played so high up but Guedi was a nessesity in this one imo. We have two fit senior CB's at the minute so atleast one needed a rest, and Marc was largely untroubled.
 

Megadrive Man

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
149
Supports
Liverpool
Lampard has timed his move to Chelsea perfectly. With a transfer ban and expectations lower than usual plus the instant love from the fans for being a club legend his start hasn't surprised me at all.

Chelsea have the second best squad in the league and an incredibly big group of talented youngsters coming through. They will challenge for the title next season and will almost certainly win it when Pep and Klopp move on, maybe even before.

The sale of Hazard was really good business too. Very similar to the Coutinho deal in that they got a huge amount of money for a player that wasn't an elite level goalscorer/assist maker.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
Joined
Aug 13, 2011
Messages
36,780
Location
Canada
Lampard has timed his move to Chelsea perfectly. With a transfer ban and expectations lower than usual plus the instant love from the fans for being a club legend his start hasn't surprised me at all.

Chelsea have the second best squad in the league and an incredibly big group of talented youngsters coming through. They will challenge for the title next season and almost certainly win it when Pep and Klopp move on.

The sale of Hazard was really good business too. Very similar to the Coutinho deal in that they got a huge amount of money for a player that wasn't an elite level goalscorer/assist maker.
:houllier::houllier:
Second best squad in the league? Which of City or Liverpool would possibly be behind them? It's not close. And no I doubt they'll challenge for the title next season. They are improving and between them and Leicester for the best team outside the top 2, and a lot can change in football, but they are far from challenging Liverpool and City IMO.

Also they're good at beating the bottom half teams who sit back, they've shown that so far. Where they have struggled so far this season is coming up against the stronger sides. Lost to United twice (home and away), lost home to Liverpool, drew at home to Leicester, and the rest of their fixtures haven't been the traditionally tougher games. That's not to shit on them, but it's been a clear weak point to them IMO. Brighton is the only side in the top half of the league currently who they have beaten so far, while in the bottom half they are yet to play West Ham, Spurs, Everton and Villa (along with playing City, Arsenal, Bournemouth, and Palace in the top half).

I think they'll make the top 4 pretty comfortably in the end because of Arsenal, Spurs and United being shit, but they're in a hot run of form and I don't think it'll last in the next couple of months when they get a much tougher fixture list. And I'm not sure if they're actually a very good team in one off big games, or if they're just good at beating cannon fodder but struggle against better teams (the opposite scenario of United essentially).
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
1,646
Supports
Chelsea
:houllier::houllier:
Second best squad in the league? Which of City or Liverpool would possibly be behind them? It's not close.
I think he means depth. We're well off both right now in terms of first Xl but our depth is very strong.
 

Schneckerl

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
2,576
Chelsea have the second best squad in the league and an incredibly big group of talented youngsters coming through. They will challenge for the title next season and will almost certainly win it when Pep and Klopp move on, maybe even before.
Literally what??

The sale of Hazard was really good business too. Very similar to the Coutinho deal in that they got a huge amount of money for a player that wasn't an elite level goalscorer/assist maker.
Hazard had 16 goals and 15 assists last season which was the most in the EPL.

Some baffling "opinions".
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
35,018
Location
Chelsea fan.
:houllier::houllier:
Second best squad in the league? Which of City or Liverpool would possibly be behind them?
......................Cabellero.............
James Christensen Rudiger Alonso
.................Kante. RLC................
Pedro............Barkley..............CHO
....................Giroud (or Batshuayi)

That's an XI of Chelsea players who didn't start today. Do you think, if you did the same for Liverpool, theirs would be better?

Liverpool are a better side than us for certain. Is their squad as good as ours? I'm not sure.
 

Tyrion

Full Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
2,472
Location
Ireland
Looks like Ole's got Lamps' number.
I mentioned this on another site but OGS is pretty good at setting us up to counter. We beat Leicester and Chelsea twice and drew against Arsenal and Liverpool, not to mention PSG last season. We're good against more attacking sides.
 

Megadrive Man

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
149
Supports
Liverpool
I think he means depth. We're well off both right now in terms of first Xl but our depth is very strong.
Yes that's exactly what I meant. Chelsea's second string team is much better than Liverpool's.

Literally what??


Hazard had 16 goals and 15 assists last season which was the most in the EPL.

Some baffling "opinions".
I didn't realise he got that many assists last season!

in 17/18 he got 12 goals and 4 assists. the season before he got 16 goals and 5 assists. In 15/16 he got 4 goals and 3 assists! Even in his stellar season of 14/15 he only got 14 goals and 10 assists.

That's an average of 12.4 goals and 7.4 assists. That's not elite level?
 

1905

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
40
Also they're good at beating the bottom half teams who sit back, they've shown that so far. Where they have struggled so far this season is coming up against the stronger sides. Lost to United twice (home and away), lost home to Liverpool, drew at home to Leicester, and the rest of their fixtures haven't been the traditionally tougher games. That's not to shit on them, but it's been a clear weak point to them IMO. Brighton is the only side in the top half of the league currently who they have beaten so far, while in the bottom half they are yet to play West Ham, Spurs, Everton and Villa (along with playing City, Arsenal, Bournemouth, and Palace in the top half).

I think they'll make the top 4 pretty comfortably in the end because of Arsenal, Spurs and United being shit, but they're in a hot run of form and I don't think it'll last in the next couple of months when they get a much tougher fixture list. And I'm not sure if they're actually a very good team in one off big games, or if they're just good at beating cannon fodder but struggle against better teams (the opposite scenario of United essentially).
If you look at the results only, then sure you can say we struggled. But when you look at the actual performances it doesn't tell the same story. We should've got a point at home to Liverpool and should have beaten them in the Super Cup where we were the better side. Against Leicester at home we dominated early on but didn't take our chances, Leicester were then fantastic in the second half and didn't take theirs. 2-0 up to Sheffield Utd and got sloppy allowing them back in. I don't think the sample size is big enough for it to be a weakness just yet.

The team is learning every week. We got worked at home to Valencia and then put in a Valencia-esque performance away to Ajax. In terms of the Utd results, we could be on a 100 game win streak and we'd probably still lose to you lot. It has been amusing seeing some Utd fans thinking if they can replicate the performances vs us against other teams then they'd get results. The fact is you lot have been pretty average but we were just worse.
 

Schneckerl

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2016
Messages
2,576
I didn't realise he got that many assists last season!

in 17/18 he got 12 goals and 4 assists. the season before he got 16 goals and 5 assists. In 15/16 he got 4 goals and 3 assists! Even in his stellar season of 14/15 he only got 14 goals and 10 assists.

That's an average of 12.4 goals and 7.4 assists. That's not elite level?
If Hazard isn't elite level then who is? I don't think there are many players who outproduced him significantly over that time period and he didn't have the luxury to play for a City who tend to blow out a lot of teams in recent seasons.
 

Megadrive Man

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 29, 2019
Messages
149
Supports
Liverpool
He's a very good player, but not at the same level in terms of goals and assists as Salah, Suarez, Ronaldo, Henry off the top of my head.

The point I was trying to make is that Chelsea got an incredibly good deal for a player with a year left on his contract.Also there is a similarity with Coutinho leaving Liverpool, in that most people thought he was by far the best player and the club would struggle without them, but actually they are better off.

From what I've read so far Hazard seems to be struggling at Madrid.
 

Supermonkey_Wolf

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
15
Location
London
Supports
Chelsea
As was mentioned above, most of the recent teams Chelsea have played are in the bottom half of the table and don't offer the counter attacking threat that United and Leicester did earlier in the season. To be fair though, we really should have beaten Liverpool both times we played them. Problem is, those Liverpool games used the old 433 with Kovacic/Jorginho/Kante midfield. We probably won't play like that unless we are facing the best.

Which is to say, when Chelsea start stringing wins together against the top 10 it will be time to pop the champagne over Frank.
 

filibuster

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
71
Supports
Chelsea FC
He's a very good player, but not at the same level in terms of goals and assists as Salah, Suarez, Ronaldo, Henry off the top of my head.

The point I was trying to make is that Chelsea got an incredibly good deal for a player with a year left on his contract. Also there is a similarity with Coutinho leaving Liverpool, in that most people thought he was by far the best player and the club would struggle without them, but actually they are better off.

From what I've read so far Hazard seems to be struggling at Madrid.
I get you are a Liverpool fan, but to put Salah and Suarez in the discussion with them winning zero PL titles is just laughable.
 

FutbolFan

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
138
Supports
Chelsea
I get you are a Liverpool fan, but to put Salah and Suarez in the discussion with them winning zero PL titles is just laughable.
I am a Chelsea fan and number of titles have no relevence to individual quality.
 

That_Bloke

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
127
Location
Cologne
Supports
Leicester City
I could be wrong but weren't Martial and Pogba both playing all through August when you won 1 in 4?

I think Ole's system is far too negative for a club like United, he reminds me of Martin O Neil managing Villa (which with respect to Villa is not something you should be saying about a United manager) in the sense that he heavily relies on counter with pace up top, a system that gives you a respectable record in big games but leaves you clueless against teams that sit back and deny you any space and that ultimately will prevent you (under Ole) from being properly competitive.

I do personally believe a more progressive manager will have you higher in the table, even with the injuries you've had so far.
Very good post.

I'm under the same impression. As you said, they just rely on the counter and seem unable to produce any play. The 4-2-3-1 is also doing them no favors especially since they lack a quality 10 and a target man. They have enough pace and quality upfront to be lethal on the counter but create next to nothing when they're given the ball, relying on set-pieces or individual brilliance to get their goals. They leak relatively few goals but then rarely score more than one per game. It's not only due to injuries, it's Ole's print on this team. The more time passes the stronger the impression.

I'm very impressed by Lampard by the way. You were my wildcard this season as really couldn't predict how gad or bad you would be but fair-play to him, you're doing very well and play a very pleasing football.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
18,819
Location
Birmingham
I mentioned this on another site but OGS is pretty good at setting us up to counter. We beat Leicester and Chelsea twice and drew against Arsenal and Liverpool, not to mention PSG last season. We're good against more attacking sides.
Yes, we've been like that for a while, even under Jose. This is why I was baffled when James - a 21 year old from the Championship, was the only attacking signing we made, especially with us allowing Sanchez and Lukaku to leave.

What we needed, and its obvious for everyone to see now, is at least two other attacking players, preferably an attacking midfielder and winger.

Ole was extremely naive to think he could rely on the squad we've got and now its showing. We are nowhere near creative enough to break teams down or at least sustain relentless attacks like some other clubs do.

Going forward, its crucial that we invest in creative players. Not only in the forward areas either. We desperately a ball playing midfielder to rotate with Pogba or to even play with him.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
18,819
Location
Birmingham
I do agree with people saying Chelsea have the second best squad. Lampard, as good as he's been, and he has been very impressive, inherited quite a decent squad. A squad with a nice balance, too.

Having said that, the previous managers had just as good, if not, better squads than Frank has, but didnt produce the football Lampard is producing. He's doing an awesome job.
 

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
5,979
Location
Between a rock and the Nou Camp
I do agree with people saying Chelsea have the second best squad. Lampard, as good as he's been, and he has been very impressive, inherited quite a decent squad. A squad with a nice balance, too.

Having said that, the previous managers had just as good, if not, better squads than Frank has, but didnt produce the football Lampard is producing. He's doing an awesome job.
They don't have the 2nd best squad. City and Liverpool are EPL and Champions League winners. Chelsea were hapless last year and lost their best player. How many of their players would you want to replace ours in our 1st team?
 

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
5,979
Location
Between a rock and the Nou Camp
Lampard has timed his move to Chelsea perfectly. With a transfer ban and expectations lower than usual plus the instant love from the fans for being a club legend his start hasn't surprised me at all.

Chelsea have the second best squad in the league and an incredibly big group of talented youngsters coming through. They will challenge for the title next season and will almost certainly win it when Pep and Klopp move on, maybe even before.

The sale of Hazard was really good business too. Very similar to the Coutinho deal in that they got a huge amount of money for a player that wasn't an elite level goalscorer/assist maker.
2nd best squad? Who has the 1st?
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
18,819
Location
Birmingham
They don't have the 2nd best squad. City and Liverpool are EPL and Champions League winners. Chelsea were hapless last year and lost their best player. How many of their players would you want to replace ours in our 1st team?
Collectively, as a squad of 23 players, I feel Chelsea's squad is better than Liverpool's.

Also, currently, I'd want quite a few of their players to replace ours.
 

Chipper

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
2,015
Have people forgotten that a club's first team is part of their squad, the most important part too?
 

Walters_19_MuFc

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
18,819
Location
Birmingham
Have people forgotten that a club's first team is part of their squad, the most important part too?
Have you forgotten that Liverpool have Origi and Brewster to cover their front line, whereas Chelsea have Giroud, Batashuyi - two international players, to cover theirs.

Fortunately for Liverpool, they have few injuries, but you'd see how much they'd struggle if they racked up a few injuries in their first XI.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
29,098
Location
Egypt
I like that people are saying their squad is great now after they ended up performing well in the league. I doubt this was the opinion when the lost to us 0-4 on the opening day, or even before the start of the season. Now that they are performing far far better than us their squad has become great.

But what to say, credit to Lampard for making people change their opinion re the squad and convince them it is actually a good one with his coaching and integration of youth into the team. Signs of top coach in the making, unlike of course our clueless manager.
 

Chipper

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
2,015
Have you forgotten that Liverpool have Origi and Brewster to cover their front line, whereas Chelsea have Giroud, Batashuyi - two international players, to cover theirs.

Fortunately for Liverpool, they have few injuries, but you'd see how much they'd struggle if they racked up a few injuries in their first XI.
No I've not forgotten. I just don't think that having better backup makes up for them having inferior starters or even comes close to it.

Football is a squad game, a team's results and where they are over the long-run is the sum of their squad's abilitiy + coaching. Liverpool play a shit-ton of games so their squad is tested and they have superior results by a long way. I don't believe it's only down to coaching therefore have to conclude they have a better squad too.

If someone were to say Chelsea have less drop off from their first team to the rest of their players or that Batshuyai and Giroud are better than Origi and Brewster I wouldn't disagree but that doesn't mean they have a better squad.

Or to put it another way, the sum of Liverpool's best 25 players have more chance of winning stuff than Chelsea's. They've shown it and are continuing to do so, bearing in mind both can only play 11 at a time.

Edit: Now I think a team can have a worse starting XI but better squad than another side but it would be where the teams are closely matched to begin with in their starting XI. It would then be the squad players who make the difference, perhaps coming off the bench to impact games or covering for injuries and they'd end up narrowly achieving more than the team with the better starting XI most of the time. We're nowhere that scenario here.
 
Last edited:

antihenry

CAF GRU Rep
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
7,360
Location
Chelsea FC
United are Chelsea's bogie team.
Solskjaer is doing well against top sides because defending deep and counter attacking suits current United side. When the onus is on United to dominate and create against lesser sides, MU are struggling. He did well against Lampard on both occasions tactically, it reminded me how Mourinho used to approach games against quality opponents, well-organized defensively and the idea is to nulify the strengths of the opponent rather than trying to push forward, impose themselves and dominate games. It's a different form of control and Ole managed well both times, while Chelsea's 'attack first' approach failed.

Still, I prefer what Lampard's doing because it seems he has an idea of how his side needs to play and is trying to implement it with various success, given the circumstances he finds himself in. Frank's taking risks, sure, and he has setbacks, but the side is progressing, that's what gives me hope. It's a long season, we're still under transfer ban and young players tend to be inconsistent so who knows how things'll turn out come May, but the mood around the squad is very positive.

With Ole, if he spends a bit more and brings some quality creative players to United's midfield,I guess we may see from him a different, more proactive approach to games. Perhaps he feels given the squad he inherited current playing style is the best way to get points on the board. Also, he is probably under more pressure than Lampard at the moment.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
77,036
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
Solskjaer is doing well against top sides because defending deep and counter attacking suits current United side. When the onus is on United to dominate and create against lesser sides, MU are struggling. He did well against Lampard on both occasions tactically, it reminded me how Mourinho used to approach games against quality opponents, well-organized defensively and the idea is to nulify the strengths of the opponent rather than trying to push forward, impose themselves and dominate games. It's a different form of control and Ole managed well both times, while Chelsea's 'attack first' approach failed.

Still, I prefer what Lampard's doing because it seems he has an idea of how his side needs to play and is trying to implement it with various success, given the circumstances he finds himself in. Frank's taking risks, sure, and he has setbacks, but the side is progressing, that's what gives me hope. It's a long season, we're still under transfer ban and young players tend to be inconsistent so who knows how things'll turn out come May, but the mood around the squad is very positive.

With Ole, if he spends a bit more and brings some quality creative players to United's midfield,I guess we may see from him a different, more proactive approach to games. Perhaps he feels given the squad he inherited current playing style is the best way to get points on the board. Also, he is probably under more pressure than Lampard at the moment.
Good point. This is why I thought the Liverpool result (and the formation used in that game) means nothing in the grand scheme of things. We do have some desperate fans who are ready to from gear 1 to 5 on the back of a decent result
 

Treble

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
10,633
Already in the first game of the season, which Chelsea lost 4:0, it was kinda obvious they can play better football, despite Lampard being there just for 6-7 weeks. I even wrote in the post match thread that I was impressed with Chelsea despite their big loss. Performances and style of playing are a much better predictor for the season than a big win against a good team here and there.