Your wish was granted, he managed to zombify the team.
Ole's clear-out
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
Lingard's still zombying around ffs.
I agree ref Jones. It’s a shame he will be remembered as a meme. Like you say, he had everything to be a great CB, and I’ve not seen anyone at aged 19 (certainly not in the PL), who has been a better prospect since.
god knows ref Moyes.
This has been a massively underrated aspect of what Solskjaer has done here. He's quietly got rid of many players accrued under previous managers who didn't have the ability and/or mentality to play for us.
It's a far cry from when Young, Fellaini and Lukaku were 3 of the first names on the teamsheet.
It's a far cry from when Young, Fellaini and Lukaku were 3 of the first names on the teamsheet.
Phase one
Romero
J. Pereira
Rojo
Jones
Fosu-Mensah
A.Pereira
Lingard
Ighalo
Phase two
Dalot
Williams
Mata?
J. Pereira
Jones
A.Pereira
Lingard
Phase two
Dalot
Williams
Mata?
Matt Judge.Grtat news as he really wasnt good enough. Should have let Lingard go as well instead of extending. Periera and Jones need to be persuaded to go as well. Still cant get my head around who gave Jones a 5 year contract
He is E.Woodward's mate and is terrible at his job.
Imagine paying Phil Jones to be on a treatment table.
Complete incompetence.
Everyone on your Phase 1 needs to go. Disagree with your Phase 2. Dalot needs to go, and frankly should be phase one. If Milan or anyone else offered money for him in Jan he should be gone.
williams should go on loan, and can be a good squad player at the least.
Mata - I think should stay, he’s a good squad player, and can do a job. Perhaps his wage is high, but his transfer fee is a sunk cost, so if we are getting 20 appearances from him, it’s ok. I wouldn’t put up a fight for him to stay though.
It is crazy that he’s been here that long.
Same with Jones being the only outfield player from Fergies period that is left.
It's only been a year that we've got cohesive squad without too much tinkering. We used to start Mata, Pereira and Lingard this time last year.
He's still ensembleing the squad and we're far from finished article. We have one of the youngest squads in the league and most of our oldest players are on their last legs. Lots of our players are still green and are expected to ripen in the next two years.
It is crucial that we stick with what we're doing now as we're changing for the better and we mustn't stop this and start all over as that would probably waste so much potential that this squad has.
If we try clear more of fringe players in the next couple of windows and if we manage to reinforce properly and our young players enter their prime that's our best chance of winning something and making a comeback as a club.
We have to stay patient with Ole and entourage.
Well, definitely not a team of zombies, because it would at least frighten the opponents. It’s more like a team of the wood-made chess pieces. Some can only move one step forward each time. Some are only allowed to move in diagonal...
Isn't Andreas on loan to Lazio with obligation to buy?
I honestly don't know what does "start all over" mean. Do people think that if say one manager leaves and the next arrives, he has to throw everything the previous one did out of the window before starting his job? I'm not saying Ole should leave (obviously not, he's done well at the moment and our comeback since the CL exit has been great) but I'm just talking in perspective. Things don't work like this in any club at all. The current squad should be built in a way that would work under any manager, the current or any upcoming one. That's the basis big clubs work on.
IMO we are pretty much finished article apart from one or two players. Most of the squad are either in their prime or pretty close to approach it. If you ask me what's the perfect time for these players to win something, I would say now and within the next 2 years max. They are showing it already, considering that we have reached a lot of semi finals and are currently on a possible title run. They are just missing one thing and that's taking one step forward to win it all.
I feel like some are afraid to say that we are finally good enough for a title challenge and are trying to control expectations so that they aren't disappointed if something went south. We absolutely are and are already showing it. The current squad is good enough to challenge for the big prizes.
I had almost entirely forgotten about Memphis Depay until reading his name on this thread.
This is the actual case for sticking with Ole. The only guy he's playing that he should bin is Matic, and he's at least only at half of Fred and Mctominay's minutes.
They should all have gone to others (Van De Beek even if it means trying to win 4-3 for 80% and 3 at the back for the others, largely Telles at LB and Shaw at LCB but some to Axel or Bailly and maybe a few others to AWB at RB and James at RWB), but considering we are one holding midfielder short it's not inexcusable.
They should all have gone to others (Van De Beek even if it means trying to win 4-3 for 80% and 3 at the back for the others, largely Telles at LB and Shaw at LCB but some to Axel or Bailly and maybe a few others to AWB at RB and James at RWB), but considering we are one holding midfielder short it's not inexcusable.
Yeah, Ole can be the guy who gets us into a position to hire the next manager and there's no shame in that. Depends on who's available and if their tactics fit the squad. And Ole could get a job running things or leave if he likes, could always bring him back honestly I think if we say hired Nagelsmann this summer, Ole would get a decent but not top top job, like maybe what Newcastle or maybe Leicester if they lose Rodgers or a 5th-7th placed team in Germany or like Celtic?
That is a really really interesting idea. Some people question his tactics on the pitch but he seems to be helping to steer the club in a much healthier direction.
There's an option to buy, not an obligation. And from what I've heard things haven't gone great for him there.
The issue here for me is still squad depth. We are one injury away (Bruno or Rashford) from having a team devoid of a spark or any creativity. How many of the goals this season have come through one of those two scoring or assisting? IMO we need to strengthen in the summer with a RW (if pellestri/Diallo don’t step up by then), a “jack grealish” type player and a proper DM to remove the dependency on two makeshift DMs, McT and Fred, in every game. Essentially replace Pogba with quality if he goes and get a proper replacement for Matic in the mould of Rodri, Busquets etc
He is and regardless of any question marks over his overall management Incan only say that in this respect he’s done and seems to be doing an exemplary job. We have a completely renovated team. Still a bit of work to do but so much better than the jumble of Moyes, LVG and Jose he inherited.
I’d argue phase one was Smalling, Lukaku, Sanchez, Young, Darmian, Valencia and Fellaini.
I wouldn’t class what Van Gaal did as the same as what Ole is doing. To me he just seemed like a mad bastard with a scatter gun approach to transfers. There was no cohesion or planning to it. He’d sign players we didn’t really need like Falcao and end up playing with a top heavy team just to fit him in. We used to have Di Maria, Rooney, Falcao and Van Persie all on the pitch at once. Don’t get me wrong, it was hilarious chaos and fun while it lasted, especially compared to the following year when he inexplicably decided he didn’t actually like attacking that much after all. But there’s no way it was good for the club long term.
When you look at some of his signings they just appear a bit all over the place. Replacing Rafael with Darmian because he hates Brazilians, signing two goalkeepers only to fall out with one of them publicly and never play him, signing Rojo purely because he’s left footed...it was all just weird. Add to this the fact that he broke up the title winning team way too quickly, I mean I’ve covered Rafael, he also sold Evans, Kagawa, Nani, Hernandez, Welbeck, Fletcher and let Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra leave in the same summer. It was just mental that he didn’t even try to keep some cohesion.
Contrast this with Ole who won’t swap out more than 20% per summer, actually values the character of players he’s bringing in and wants to foster a squad that grows together and has chemistry, unlike just plonking 11 individuals on a pitch together and hoping for the best.
I’d say what Ole is doing is far healthier for the club long term than what LVG did, the effects of which Ole is still trying to fix right now.
I agree with this. And this resulted in times with Fellaini up top, or DiMaria up top despite his best performances coming in midfield, then planning pre-season with a 352 and then changing it after one result. Or finally stumbling into a 433 which helped us secure CL to then start the next season going for a 4231 (which worked when he was rotating carrick and basty, then for some mad reason decided to play them both vs arsenal to press high).
LVG was a bit like Sven when he managed England - didn’t seem to know the players at all.
I’m not sure he had ever watched United before he joined.
like you say, scattergun was the approach. If ever a DoF was needed at was at this point.
it’s not that some of the players he got rid of weren’t good enough, it’s that he did it so quickly, and bought players who not only weren’t as good, were never going to be better.
for example with Rafael, if he sold him for a youngster with potential, but that player never fulfilled it - fine, it’s a pint that didn’t come off. But we bought a painfully average Darmian, who was never going to be anything but average. Absurd thinking.
No. There is no obligation to buy. Dont think he has been picked that many times either. Another waste of space given a new 4+1 year contract in 2019. Watch them also add on the other year.
I dont think we are close to the finished article. We are a one player team and if anything happened to Bruno we would be a 5-8th place team again. You only need to look at the West Ham game first half. Hes now tiring and not putting in the performances and this has shown over the last 3 games.
We had a flukey win over Wanderers, a dubious penalty against the Villa and were put to bed by City.
We are better than this time last season as Ole said, but we still need a young striker as Martial is nowhere near good enough, still need a RW and were hoping Diallo or Pelestri will come good for that. Need a proper DM as neither Fred or McTom can play the role. RB and CB also need improving. We have a very good technical midfielder who will turn to shit as Ole doesnt play him.
We’re far from a one player team. Bruno’s stats are great but the reality is a lot of his assists are square passes that aren’t even great chances, or a really good pass against Villa that Rashford chased after....but you wouldn’t expect it to lead to a goal. On top of that we get a lot of penalties so he has scored a lot of goals....but he isn’t putting players through one on one constantly or scoring winning goals from open play week on week. Rashford has had a big impact this season....McT had a massive impact in the Leeds game, Pogba had a big impact in the Villa game, Cavani in the Southampton game etc. Bruno is getting the headlines but in truth it’s a miriad of players who are helping us win games. Bruno would be the biggest loss though, but not the be all and end all as the last few games have shown. His overall performances this season haven’t been great over 90 mins.
Lingard, Jones and Pereira still need to leave. Those three I want out the most
We started to play a lot better after he arrived. You say a lot of his assists are square passes , but they aint. He has had a good mixture if you look overall. His goals without the pens are more than all the other midfielders put together. Watch the West Ham game and see the difference between first half and after he came on. It was if a light switch had been turned on. We can miss any other player and there wouldnt be much difference. We cant miss him.
Why are you crossing players off when nobody has left yet?
Absolutely. And phase one was perfect. There is only an argument for Smalling to have stayed. The rest were/are average at best.
Phase 2 is taking shape nicely with Rojo, TFM and Romero looking likely to leave with only Romero worthy of staying.
Let’s hope he can continue in the summer with Jones leaving, Pereira getting a permanent move (likely) and Lingard leaving for decent money
No issue with Mata staying. He’s a good role model for the squad.
OGS is doing a brilliant job re squad management.
He had a plan and was ruthless in what he wanted. I don’t see what was so mad about it. He wasn’t transparent either he explained every position... like having too many number 10’s.
I don’t get what you mean at all.. the team was ready to be dismantled which is why he came into a hard job. RVP left for Turkey not Barcelona. Falcao was a club gamble we can all admit to that. Kagawa too many number 10’s (Just meant he doesn’t get 5 mins of the bench like VDB). Evans we had too many CB’s and he prefers left and right footed which known everybody seems we think to need to be able to play out from the back under Ole. Welbeck again too many strikers and we got £18m. Nani went to Lisbon on loan yet again not Barca. Basically everything was reasonable and with reason. Not everything works out perfect but we all knew what he was trying to do it was just boring.
Don’t forget Fergie once claimed Dong Fangzhoo the next Batistuta!
Except we did extend Lingard's contract and did offer TFM a new one
I hear this a lot and really dont get. What skills has he shown that would make him suited to a DOF role?
Personally i am not that impressed by this great clear out becaise all the players are obviously not good enough. Realistically we should have done more to get rid of them in the last two summers
In terms of transfer business bruno has been outstanding but the rest havs been meh
Agreed
It just means clarity - we know they leave, confirmed by Ole
Brilliant post.
He said it in the post-match interview after we clinched number 20 with the 3-0 win against Villa. It was odd even then, though Jones did play in that game and he was only 21 at the time.
He’s made a difference for sure, I mean he replaced Lingard or Perriera generally in the 10 position. He’s a class act but we’re no one man team. As for West Ham it’s one game and I think if we’d have brought Bruno or Rashford on on their own it wouldn’t have had the same affect. There’s many instances of other players coming on and impacting games anyway....Cavani, Greenwood, Pogba, Mata have all had impacts. I don’t think we’re as reliant on him as you think. His performances over 90 minutes aren’t always great.
I believe that we may find difficulty selling Jones because of the frequency of his injuries and the time period he has been side lined, if I am correct he has not played a competitive game in a year. I see possibly 3 scenarios for him. 1. Having been given an extended contract ( Financial details of which we have no idea but I assume that he could not get the same at another club ) he may choose to see out his contract. 2. He retires because of his injuries. 3 The club buy out his remaining contract just to get him off the wage bill.