Ole's clear-out

[432JuanMata]

Too be fair I still don’t think Ole is the person to get us back to the top(though I’m not ole outer) and his in game management can be poor, he has done a fantastic job at getting rid of the deadwood. I still find it weird people say if he’s replaced he can be our DOF as I don’t think his signings overall have been great value for money. But overall getting rid of players he deems not good enough or not suited has been excellent.

My friends said the other day which I thought hit the nail on the head, that he thinks ole knows the standard needed to win trophies but is he capable. That’s the real question

 

[dave1956]

Just to support my previous post concerning Phil Jones. His first full season with Utd was 2011-2012, since that time including the present season he has made a total of 224 appearances and scored 6 goals. His best two seasons for appearances were 2011-2012 with 41 and 2013-2014 with 39. Excluding those 2 seasons the other 8 his average appearances have been 18. within those seasons the last two 2019-2020 he made just 3 and in the present season 2020-2021 he has so far made 0.

 

[United Hobbit]

Lingard, Jones and Pereira still need to leave. Those three I want out the most

Completely agree with this

We also need a DOF, so if Ole does reach a ceiling as manager and needs replacing, the removal of players who aren't good enough can continue rather than the new manager needing to assess them all again

 

[meamth]

Ole will never get rid of Phil Jones. Does he have a 100 year contract or what?

His contract might be the main issue, but there's no doubt if he is fit (he will never be), he is comfortably a PL level player.

 

[RedSky]

Just to support my previous post concerning Phil Jones. His first full season with Utd was 2011-2012, since that time including the present season he has made a total of 224 appearances and scored 6 goals. His best two seasons for appearances were 2011-2012 with 41 and 2013-2014 with 39. Excluding those 2 seasons the other 8 his average appearances have been 18. within those seasons the last two 2019-2020 he made just 3 and in the present season 2020-2021 he has so far made 0.

In the last 100 Manchester United League games, Phil Jones recorded 1,576mins. He's clearly out of Oles plans but for some reason he's determined not to leave United for regular football.

One day we'll be rid of him I guess.

 

[Lentwood]

I wish the club would get on with it. I relish the departure of the deadwood with the same excitement as a new signing these days. It feels cleansing for my soul

 

[future2future]

Dutch media are reporting that Fosu-Mensah's going to Leverkusen for 1.5m

 

[onemanarmy]

Dutch media are reporting that Fosu-Mensah's going to Leverkusen for 1.5m

Good deal for all parties involved.

 

[onemanarmy]

It's really crazy when you see the players that have been let go by Ole and the players that are STILL considered deadwood in the squad.

Gone:
Lukaku, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, James Wilson, Sanchez

On loan or still have to go:
A. Pereira, j. Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Romero, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, Mata, Ighalo.

That's 18 players, and I'm probably still missing some. Crazy numbers. The deadwood still counts for 4-500K on wages per week probably.

Mata I wouldn't mind another year, but I think his contract expires in June.

Our matchday selection has improved massively in the past 2 years, credit where credit's due.

 

[balaks]

In the last 100 Manchester United League games, Phil Jones recorded 1,576mins. He's clearly out of Oles plans but for some reason he's determined not to leave United for regular football.

One day we'll be rid of him I guess.

Money?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

We have managed to get rid of some dead wood but have still made sone ridiculous decisions e.g. extended jones and lingard contracts. We seem to have passed up opportunities to get rid of sone players only to end up paying their wages for nothing

Can't decide whether we have actually improved in terms of squad management

Jones' extension really was a head scratcher, but Lingard's is just so we can get a fee for him at the end of the season. At least that's how I see it...

 

[Matt851]

Jones' extension really was a head scratcher, but Lingard's is just so we can get a fee for him at the end of the season. At least that's how I see it...

Yeah i agree thats the intent but i am just doubting whether we will actually find a club willing to pay a good fee for him

 

[Shane88]

Dutch media are reporting that Fosu-Mensah's going to Leverkusen for 1.5m

Feck sake. Wish we had Liverpool's negotiation team. Get someone like Bournemouth or Sheffield United to pay £20 million for him.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Feck sake. Wish we had Liverpool's negotiation team. Get someone like Bournemouth or Sheffield United to pay £20 million for him.

Yeah, maybe with a longer contract remaining.

Apparently on £15k/week so that's £3.75m of wages saved too.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Feck sake. Wish we had Liverpool's negotiation team. Get someone like Bournemouth or Sheffield United to pay £20 million for him.

He rejected our contract & has 6months left, no negotiation team is getting big money in this situation. I think you have to pay a 'fee' for a player to move early but it's nominal.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

It's really crazy when you see the players that have been let go by Ole and the players that are STILL considered deadwood in the squad.

Gone:
Lukaku, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, James Wilson, Sanchez

On loan or still have to go:
A. Pereira, j. Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Romero, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, Mata, Ighalo.

That's 18 players, and I'm probably still missing some. Crazy numbers. The deadwood still counts for 4-500K on wages per week probably.

Mata I wouldn't mind another year, but I think his contract expires in June.

Our matchday selection has improved massively in the past 2 years, credit where credit's due.

And I would expect the ‘on loan or still to go’ list all gone by next summer with exception of Mata who I think might get a one and final year extension. For me, this moving out of the deadwood and improvement in our 1st XI and bench has been one of Ole’s biggest successes in his two year tenure so far.

 

[Falcow]

It's really crazy when you see the players that have been let go by Ole and the players that are STILL considered deadwood in the squad.

Gone:
Lukaku, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, James Wilson, Sanchez

On loan or still have to go:
A. Pereira, j. Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Romero, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, Mata, Ighalo.

That's 18 players, and I'm probably still missing some. Crazy numbers. The deadwood still counts for 4-500K on wages per week probably.

Mata I wouldn't mind another year, but I think his contract expires in June.

Our matchday selection has improved massively in the past 2 years, credit where credit's due.

450k per week?? Under estimation of the year (only11 days in mind you!)

Mata, jones, Ighalo, lingard are on 150k eack, mata maybe more, Romero and Rojo I'd say another 200k pw so that's 800k per week before you factor in the other guys you mentioned.

Madness, they all need to leave. Mata included.

 

[Zen86]

I read the thread title as if Ole was getting himself an enema

 

[city-puma]

It's really crazy when you see the players that have been let go by Ole and the players that are STILL considered deadwood in the squad.

Gone:
Lukaku, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, James Wilson, Sanchez

On loan or still have to go:
A. Pereira, j. Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Romero, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, Mata, Ighalo.

That's 18 players, and I'm probably still missing some. Crazy numbers. The deadwood still counts for 4-500K on wages per week probably.

Mata I wouldn't mind another year, but I think his contract expires in June.

Our matchday selection has improved massively in the past 2 years, credit where credit's due.

I think we are better than Chelsea about this. They have more to cleanup.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

It's really crazy when you see the players that have been let go by Ole and the players that are STILL considered deadwood in the squad.

Gone:
Lukaku, Smalling, Darmian, Young, Valencia, Herrera, James Wilson, Sanchez

On loan or still have to go:
A. Pereira, j. Pereira, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Romero, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, Mata, Ighalo.

That's 18 players, and I'm probably still missing some. Crazy numbers. The deadwood still counts for 4-500K on wages per week probably.

Mata I wouldn't mind another year, but I think his contract expires in June.

Our matchday selection has improved massively in the past 2 years, credit where credit's due.

As you suggest year after year we've amassed too many first team players who cannot pull their weight, but I'm buoyed by the profile of most of the players on your 'still to go' list; former academy players, Portuguese punts by Jose that didn't work out, a second keeper who was useful until this year and a short term loan who again played his part last year. Mata has been a solid squad member, albeit he'll have been expensive during his time here, while Rojo and particularly Jones just shouldn't still be at United.

It seems for the most part we are no longer replacing deadweight with more deadweight as we have all along post-Fergie (particularly LVG's 'clearout' which left us as bad squad-wise but multiple hundreds of millions down in fees and wages).

 

[Bastian]

Yeah, maybe with a longer contract remaining.

Apparently on £15k/week so that's £3.75m of wages saved too.

Probably two or three times lower than the second lowest paid first team member. Mainly this is about momentum and trimming the bloated squad.

Keep it going.

 

[Le Red]

The decision to extend lingards contract is to force him out instead of allowing him to sit on the bench for another year and walk out on a free next summer, which is almost certainly what he’s been advised to do in the current market.

Whatever transfer fee we get for him will probably be less than this stupid extension.

 

[elmo]

I think we are better than Chelsea about this. They have more to cleanup.

They somehow always manage to get rid of their unwanted players for loads of money.

 

[pav1790]

They somehow always manage to get rid of their unwanted players for loads of money.

Not really, they have lost on kdb, sallah and many more.

 

[onemanarmy]

450k per week?? Under estimation of the year (only11 days in mind you!)

Mata, jones, Ighalo, lingard are on 150k eack, mata maybe more, Romero and Rojo I'd say another 200k pw so that's 800k per week before you factor in the other guys you mentioned.

Madness, they all need to leave. Mata included.

Yeah, I found the wages from 2018 on some site... You might be right. Let's say 800K, that's about 40 million a year for players that offer nothing at all (except for Mata to be fair)

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think you’re all likely giving too much credit solely to the manager here. It was crystal clear after Mourinho’s second season that the entire club had decided on a different path with regards to our recruitment.

Mike Phelan was brought in alongside Ole and a transfer board was set up. After going through three managers in five years, the football decision-makers in the club (likely Gill and Fergie on the advisory board) realised how expensive it was becoming to buy players for each individual manager, and instead wanted to use the great scouts and scouting network at our disposal to build a squad for the club, rather than for the man in the hot seat.

The current squad is the culmination of that work, Ole, Phelan and everyone involved in the brave decision to change path deserves full credit for that.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Is Rojo our biggest thief?

 

[Escobar]

I wish the club would get on with it. I relish the departure of the deadwood with the same excitement as a new signing these days. It feels cleansing for my soul

I don't think the club is really the problem. We (Ole) don't want to keep them but no one wants these overpaid players

 

[davidmichael]

Regardless of what people think of Ole as a tactician or his coaching abilities he has gone about clearing dead wood well with Young, Fellaini, Lukaku, Valencia, Sanchez, Smalling and Darmian all going under his watch.

It looks like he’s following those up with Romero, Grant, Dalot, Jones, Rojo, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah, Lingard, Mata, Chong and Ighalo whilst no one would be surprised to see Pogba in that group to leave between now and the summer either.

No one sees Maguire or AWB as world class players but both are much better than we had whilst James was always bought for potential and a squad player at best, Cavani is a good signing on a free and it’s too soon to judge VDB so I’ll say in terms of ins and outs Ole has done a great job so far and we’re in a far better position that we were under anyone else post Sir Alex.

If I’m honest I don’t think Ole is the man as our manager to get us to where we want to be (although I hope I’m very wrong) but he’s changed the club a lot since coming in and we’re definitely far better for it.

If Ole manages to clear all the dead wood over the next two windows and maybe also Pogba then gets it right in the summer with an alternate right back, a pacey centre back, a pure out and out defensive midfielder and a quality right sided attacker then we realistically could be set for a genuine challenge on all fronts domestically as we’re not that far off as far as a balanaced squad goes.

 

[crossy1686]

Whatever transfer fee we get for him will probably be less than this stupid extension.

I don't think the fee is important, it's the lingering around the place taking up wage budget for another 12 months that is. So if he's forced out this summer we save ourselves that issue of having him on the books for another 12 months before he walks away.

We wouldn't have trigged the extension if we couldn't comfortably afford it, and it wouldn't have cost us to do so.

 

[crossy1686]

Is Rojo our biggest thief?

After Sanchez, yes.

 

[AltiUn]

Is Rojo our biggest thief?

Yeah, he's been the biggest waste of space we've signed since SAF's retirement, maybe narrowly beaten by Sanchez. At least Sanchez wasn't here that long whereas Rojo's been here 6 years. The list probably goes something like Sanchez, Rojo then Jones, although Jones was a Sir Alex recruit.

 

[Falcow]

Yeah, I found the wages from 2018 on some site... You might be right. Let's say 800K, that's about 40 million a year for players that offer nothing at all (except for Mata to be fair)

Crazy isn't it. From a maths point of view, the best thing would be to offer to release all of them for free, assuming they would accept. It would be better than holding about for a year to recoup say £30m in fees but spend £40m in wages.

That £40m would go a long way to off setting the loss of gate receipts. Forget about money in Glazers pockets, football is business and the club needs to be run as efficiently as possible.

Agree on Mata, though in terms of bang for buck he is poor value for money.

 

[wolvored]

In the last 100 Manchester United League games, Phil Jones recorded 1,576mins. He's clearly out of Oles plans but for some reason he's determined not to leave United for regular football.

One day we'll be rid of him I guess.

It's the contract he's on. Anywhere else would want him on a pay as you play even if you bought him. He would probably suit the Championship where he would be the big fish in the 5 games he would play in any season

 

[Matt851]

I do feel like this thread is slightly damning ole / ed with faint praise. Generally ole cant be blamed for us having so much dead wood (although jones and mata signed new contracts under his watch) but its so obvious that most of these players arent good enough i dont think its deserving of much praise that we are starting to get rid of them. Rojo and jones cant stay fit so we wouldnt be able to play them even if we wanted to. There are also signs that ed hasnt really learned his lessons from the past disastrous squad management e.g. not selling rojo in 2019 and extended lingards contract

 

[Red00012]

Another one bites the dust

Good riddance Rojo

 

[saint Jose]

Feck sake. Wish we had Liverpool's negotiation team. Get someone like Bournemouth or Sheffield United to pay £20 million for him.

Totally agree mate, one fecking thing pool' are good at right now is getting good money for players and not having a bloated squad.

What i hate about this club and this is no fault of ole but its that we pay insane wages no question asked over the past decade so we end up with massive wage structure with mediocre players on silly money.

Why do we have a 4th goalkeeper? Lee grant is on £30k a week to be an overpaid nanny on the training pitch.. I assume hes out the squad in the summer when his contract expires but if we want to win trophies under ole we need to run a tighter ship, the moves made over the past 12 months has been great(Bruno the best signing post SAF, Lingardinio loaned out, Sánchez out) but we still need to do more to offload the dead wood legacy players that do nothing but destabilize the dressing room morale because they are on insane money

 

[Raveneye]

So with Rojo, Lingard and TMF out over the winter break, is Phil Jones the last holdover player who really, really needs to go?

Matic and Mata have been inconsistent, but I wouldn't lump them anywhere near the first three names in this post. They've given the team a bunch of good performances, have won games for the team, and have a depth of quality and experience and attitude that's apparently good for the dressing room. I'd say Matic and Mata are at worst squad players.

Mata will be out of contract by the end of the season and I think he deserves a fair shake. If Matic's legs are gone forever (tbd) then maybe he'll have to be sold a bit soon after being offered that shiny new contract (to be fair, he was the lynchpin of the post-lockdown team that saved last season), but if we sell Jones, making Matic and Romero the "dead wood" at the club, I'd say Manchester United has a very healthy looking salary-to-squad outlook for the first time in a long time.

 

[Red00012]

If anything Ole has done he has cleared a lot of scrap out of the club , granted Lingard and Pereira are loans but based on the current PL squad Jones is the only one left of the players that needed moving on.

 

[Zlatattack]

We're slowly getting to the place where our squad overhaul objectives aren't "clearing out those clearly not good enough" but instead "replacing the weaker players to improve competition and improve the level of the squad".

We should be focusing on who's the weakest in each position and whether we can improve on them.