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Osama Bin Laden is dead | Died four years ago

Nucks

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Read the entire thing. Other than maybe one point that is kind of irrelevant, the entire thing reads out like it very well could be true and it is not a big deal. It's just a sanitized version of what happened.

No fire fight? Goes on to suggest a courier opened fire on them.

Osama's body dumped whererever? Honestly who fecking cares where they dropped his corpse. Does it matter?

Osama's body torn apart by rifle fire. Gee, obvious fecking sanitation there. Does anyone care how he was killed? Did the US public need to know his body was eviscirated?

Most of the article doesn't read like a conspiracy theory, it reads like a "no shit we got a sanitized version of the truth". I'm not even suggesting that it WAS sanitized, I'm just saying it's not news. Whether Osama was shot 2x, 3x or 300x, who cares. Who cares if he was shot 300x and they said 3x. Who cares if parts of him were dumped over the Hindu Kush and not all at sea? The story that we were given is close enough to what this guy is reporting and the points of difference are so pointless, who cares.

That's all I'm sayin'. If I'm obama and the seals shot Osama 300x, I'd tell my guys to tell the media it was 3x as well. Not because it's a big conspiracy, but because what's the point?
 

Sir Matt

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Read the entire thing. Other than maybe one point that is kind of irrelevant, the entire thing reads out like it very well could be true and it is not a big deal. It's just a sanitized version of what happened.

No fire fight? Goes on to suggest a courier opened fire on them.

Osama's body dumped whererever? Honestly who fecking cares where they dropped his corpse. Does it matter?

Osama's body torn apart by rifle fire. Gee, obvious fecking sanitation there. Does anyone care how he was killed? Did the US public need to know his body was eviscirated?

Most of the article doesn't read like a conspiracy theory, it reads like a "no shit we got a sanitized version of the truth". I'm not even suggesting that it WAS sanitized, I'm just saying it's not news. Whether Osama was shot 2x, 3x or 300x, who cares. Who cares if he was shot 300x and they said 3x. Who cares if parts of him were dumped over the Hindu Kush and not all at sea? The story that we were given is close enough to what this guy is reporting and the points of difference are so pointless, who cares.

That's all I'm sayin'. If I'm obama and the seals shot Osama 300x, I'd tell my guys to tell the media it was 3x as well. Not because it's a big conspiracy, but because what's the point?
If they knew there was going to be no fire fight, they wouldn't have spent so long preparing for the mission, wouldn't have sent classified helicopters, wouldn't have built a whole mock up of the compound, etc.

The bit about being torn apart by small arms fire is like something from Inglorious Basterds. :lol:
 

Sir Matt

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And then we take him to a spot in Afghanistan and have the Seals shoot him, stab him, poison him, and hang him. Then run him over with a humvee
Then they had him drawn and quartered to send his head to be displayed in Islamabad, his arms sent to Iraq and Syria, his legs to Somalia and Saudi Arabia.
 

Sir Matt

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I feel guilty for linking this source, but if we needed more confirmation of its ridiculousness:

 

2cents

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The Detail in Seymour Hersh’s Bin Laden Story That Rings True

From the moment it was announced to the public, the tale of how Osama bin Laden met his death in a Pakistani hill town in May 2011 has been a changeable feast. In the immediate aftermath of the Navy SEAL team’s assault on his Abbottabad compound, American and Pakistani government accounts contradicted themselves and each other. In his speech announcing the operation’s success, President Obama said that “our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to Bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding.”

But others, including top Pakistani generals, insisted that this was not the case. American officials at first said Bin Laden resisted the SEALs; the Pakistanis promptly leaked that he wasn’t armed. Then came differing stories from the SEALs who carried out the raid, followed by a widening stream of new details from government reports — including the 336-page Abbottabad Commission report requested by the Pakistani Parliament — and from books and interviews. All of the accounts were incomplete in some way.

The latest contribution is the journalist Seymour Hersh’s 10,000-word article in The London Review of Books, which attempts to punch yet more holes — very big ones — in both the Obama administration’s narrative and the Pakistani government’s narrative. Among other things, Hersh contends that the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, Pakistan’s military-intelligence agency, held Bin Laden prisoner in the Abbottabad compound since 2006, and that “the C.I.A. did not learn of Bin Laden’s whereabouts by tracking his couriers, as the White House has claimed since May 2011, but from a former senior Pakistani intelligence officer who betrayed the secret in return for much of the $25 million reward offered by the U.S.”

On this count, my own reporting tracks with Hersh’s. Beginning in 2001, I spent nearly 12 years covering Pakistan and Afghanistan for The Times. (In his article, Hersh cites an article I wrote for The Times Magazine last year, an excerpt from a book drawn from this reporting.) The story of the Pakistani informer was circulating in the rumor mill within days of the Abbottabad raid, but at the time, no one could or would corroborate the claim. Such is the difficulty of reporting on covert operations and intelligence matters; there are no official documents to draw on, few officials who will talk and few ways to check the details they give you when they do.

Two years later, when I was researching my book, I learned from a high-level member of the Pakistani intelligence service that the ISI had been hiding Bin Laden and ran a desk specifically to handle him as an intelligence asset. After the book came out, I learned more: that it was indeed a Pakistani Army brigadier — all the senior officers of the ISI are in the military — who told the C.I.A. where Bin Laden was hiding, and that Bin Laden was living there with the knowledge and protection of the ISI.

I trusted my source — I did not speak with him, and his information came to me through a friend, but he was high enough in the intelligence apparatus to know what he was talking about. I was confident the information was true, but I held off publishing it. It was going to be extremely difficult to corroborate in the United States, not least because the informant was presumably in witness protection.

I do not recall ever corresponding with Hersh, but he is following up on a story that many of us assembled parts of. The former C.I.A. officer Larry Johnson aired the theory of the informant — credited to “friends who are still active” — on his blog within days of the raid. And Hersh appears to have succeeded in getting both American and Pakistani sources to corroborate it. His sources remain anonymous, but other outlets such as NBC News have since come forward with similar accounts. Finally, the Pakistani daily newspaper The News reported Tuesday that Pakistani intelligence officials have conceded that it was indeed a walk-in who provided the information on Bin Laden. The newspaper names the officer as Brigadier Usman Khalid; the reporter is sufficiently well connected that he should be taken seriously.

This development is hugely important —it is the strongest indication to date that the Pakistani military knew of Bin Laden’s whereabouts and that it was complicit in hiding a man charged with international terrorism and on the United Nations sanctions list.

I cannot confirm Hersh’s bolder claims — for example, that two of Pakistan’s top generals, Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the former army chief, and Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the director of the ISI, had advance knowledge of the raid. But I would not necessarily dismiss the claims immediately. Hersh’s scenario explains one detail that has always nagged me about the night of Bin Laden’s death.

After one of the SEALs’ Black Hawk helicopters crashed in Bin Laden’s Abbottabad compound, neighbors called the police and reported hearing both the crash and the subsequent explosions. The local police told me that they received the calls and could have been at the compound within minutes, but army commanders ordered them to stand down and leave the response to the military. Yet despite being barracked nearby, members of the Pakistani Army appear to have arrived only after the SEALs — who spent 40 minutes on the ground without encountering any soldiers — left.

Hersh’s claim that there was little or no treasure trove of evidence retrieved from Bin Laden’s home rings less true to me. But he has raised the need for more openness from the Obama administration about what was found there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/m...story-that-rings-true.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0
 

MTF

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What I don't buy about the theory that ISI had him since, and this is based on personal thoughts only, is that I don't think that in that case it would've taken the CIA as long to track him down. Here's why:

The CIA/NSA are likely more proficient at discovering the secrets of rival spy agencies and governments than finding a single guy who is no longer communicating digitally or frequently. Didn't they hack government comms of nearly all western governments?

If the ISI had run an op to capture Bin Laden in 2006, had to plan and budget to build a house and keep him. That all generates communications, activity, personnel allocation. I'm not saying that ISI is an open book and anyone could easily figure it out, but they're probably the single agency worldwide the CIA most looked at since 2001.

That's not to speak of all the other nonsense in Seymour's article and this follow-up. I think its just that Pakistan is conspiracy central, people are highly skeptical of official stories, and so it becomes a "must have known" thing. The CIA knew two of the hijackers on 9/11 had traveled to the US months before, so they "must have" have told the FBI right? Or even kept track of the guys themselves, although illegal? No, they just messed up. And UBL just found that Abbotabad was as suitable a place as any to hide. The way he supposedly effectively managed, his courier buying the land, hiring the architects and builders, and then transporting UBL and family to the place, it might as well have been in Washington DC. Distance to the people who're looking for you makes no difference once its no longer a door-to-door, search on the streets manhunt, which this never was.
 

rcoobc

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How decentralised is the Pakistani military/ISI?

Could it be that one branch hid his whereabouts and the others didnt know?
 

MTF

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That's an interesting point, hand't thought about it. But something this big, would've been at least contained to the group that worked the whole op in the ISI, up the chain (a short one) to the head(s) I'd guess. Hersh also says the Chief of the Army was aware, right?

I think if someone said a group of the ISI did this, not within the structure of the organization, and not reporting the their bosses, it would be more plausible.
 

VeevaVee

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I'm sure there loads of stuff we don't know about it. Like @Nucks said, it makes little difference.
Having seen my fair share of war videos on LiveLeak though (so obviously a military expert), I'm pretty sure regular weapons/ammunition won't rip people apart. Unless they went absolutely batshit crazy on him like lunatics. Also, who cares if no one returned any fire? Any adults in there with him are obviously pretty uncool people and helped keep him secret.
 

kiristao

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In the US version of events, the only thing that seems odd is that there was absolutely no response from the Pakistani military/police inspite of the helicopter explosion. That is the only thing that makes me feel that the ISI was somehow involved.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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I've always assumed that the US murdered Bin Laden to avoid giving him the publicity of a trial. It's murky and shady (and illegal), but I can definitely see the logic behind it.
 

MoBeats

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Bin Laden is sat in a cell somewhere, unbearded, eating Doritos, watching the Simpsons and getting sucked off by plenty hoes. No way on this earth is he dead.
 

Raoul

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I've always assumed that the US murdered Bin Laden to avoid giving him the publicity of a trial. It's murky and shady (and illegal), but I can definitely see the logic behind it.
Or maybe it went down exactly as it did. Conspiracy theories are a bit boring imo.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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Or maybe it went down exactly as it did. Conspiracy theories are a bit boring imo.
Isn't that how it went down though? They shot him, right? He wasn't armed (as far as I know).

Also, I don't necessarily disagree with the killing -- which some will probably find distasteful.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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They did, but it's conjecture to say it was done deliberately to avoid a trial.
I agree, it is pure speculation -- I'm not putting it forward as fact. Just that from a U.S. perspective, I think it made sense for him to not have a trial. Not that I buy any of that 9/11 horseshit, if that's what you think I mean, just that Bin Laden did have potential to embarrass the US in different ways. Previous ties to the CIA, the whole potential martyr thing, etc. As it happened, the US claimed about as clean a victory as I think they could have in that instance.
 

Sir Matt

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Isn't that how it went down though? They shot him, right? He wasn't armed (as far as I know).

Also, I don't necessarily disagree with the killing -- which some will probably find distasteful.
I think originally they said he was near his AK47 or reached for it. Unless Osama was completely naked, I think the SEALs could justify killing him because they don't know that he doesn't have some sort of explosive on his person. Given who he is and the tactics he's used previously, it would be a reasonable worry for them. In that situation, better safe than sorry. Besides, if you capture him, there's the threat of people attacking to try to break him out.
 

JustAFan

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I'm sure there loads of stuff we don't know about it. Like @Nucks said, it makes little difference.
Having seen my fair share of war videos on LiveLeak though (so obviously a military expert), I'm pretty sure regular weapons/ammunition won't rip people apart. Unless they went absolutely batshit crazy on him like lunatics. Also, who cares if no one returned any fire? Any adults in there with him are obviously pretty uncool people and helped keep him secret.
Actually military and even non-military ammo can do quite a bit of damage to the human body. Watch JFK's head explode on the Zapruder film as an example.
 

VeevaVee

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Actually military and even non-military ammo can do quite a bit of damage to the human body. Watch JFK's head explode on the Zapruder film as an example.
There are much more informative videos on LikeLeak for examples of people being hit with what I imagine would be similar weapons/ammunition. I don't doubt they do a fair amount of damage but no one is ripped to pieces and there aren't too many exploding heads. I'm far from an expert though, so it could've, of course.