Our biggest problem - managers, players, or owners?

I get that why most people are choosing the owners to be at fault, what I can't understand is that they seem to happy to throw money at it with a clear lack of direction, or any sort of plan, and most importantly having the wrong people running things, with seemingly no appetite to change the approach.

I understand why Ed is the untouchable golden boy, but just stick him on the commercial side now he's proved so blatantly crap at anything else for us, and get the right people on the footballing side, it's not like it'd cost them more.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Seriously becasue I'm confused, we just seem to be in a revolving door of blame, manager comes in does crap, he gets blamed, but players are seemingly under-performing, so they get blamed, owners taking money out of the club, and allowing kamikaze Ed to do what he wants, but are throwing big money at the job, so they get half blamed, what really is our biggest issue here, because sure as hell we have one.
Click to expand...

Biggest problem was the Glazers emplacing an investment banker to run Manchester United. What could possibly go wrong ?
 
Hey whats happened happened. Taking over from Ferguson was almost impossible for anyone yet we made life super hard with Moyes. The CLUB finally needs to find a successful identity that is separate from Ferguson.

Go Ole!
 
Raoul said:
Biggest problem was the Glazers emplacing an investment banker to run Manchester United. What could possibly go wrong ?
Click to expand...

Of course, it's so clear he has just been handed the keys, and told to do what he wants, but it has failed so completely, and so expensively, that they surely must look to change things, but here we are, another summer with same old mistakes about to be repeated, I just can't work it out.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Of course, it's so clear he has just been handed the keys, and told to do what he wants, but it has failed so completely, and so expensively, that they surely must look to change things, but here we are, another summer with same old mistakes about to be repeated, I just can't work it out.
Click to expand...

It makes no sense. Ed is the only common thread in our six years of mediocrity. Hopefully the Glazers are smart enough to figure it out.
 
It's obviously the owners. They set the priorities and apoint the key staff. As far as we can see the objective is to be as successful as possible fiscally and success on the pitch is seen as a driver of that, rather that it being the other way around.

We may pay high wages to some mediocre players but often that is the more financially viable move in a short term sense, as a replacement would take a capital investment.
 
Managers without a doubt. United with Guardiola, Klopp, Poch, and even Conte would most likely have at least 2 title challenges and 1 CL cup run.

The "structure" is lazy excuse as fans have little to no idea what goes on in the board room. Liverpool fans hated FSG before they started winning. Spurs fans regularly slated Levy before Poch. Arsenal fan despise Kroenke. Most football fans think their owners are to blame during any period of sustained mediocrity.

Football fans love to use CEOs/boards as scapegoats, b/c they don't have to admit they were wrong about their favorite managers and to a lesser extent players (see Mourinho, Jose)
 
MackRobinson said:
Managers without a doubt. United with Guardiola, Klopp, Poch, and even Conte would most likely have at least 2 title challenges and 1 CL cup run.

The "structure" is lazy excuse as fans have little to no idea what goes on in the board room. Liverpool fans hated FSG before they started winning. Spurs fans regularly slated Levy before Poch. Arsenal fan despise Kroenke. Most football fans think their owners are to blame during any period of sustained mediocrity.

Football fans love to use CEOs/boards as scapegoats, b/c they don't have to admit they were wrong about their favorite managers and to a lesser extent players (see Mourinho, Jose)
Click to expand...
Go along with this 100%!
 
MackRobinson said:
Managers without a doubt. United with Guardiola, Klopp, Poch, and even Conte would most likely have at least 2 title challenges and 1 CL cup run.

The "structure" is lazy excuse as fans have little to no idea what goes on in the board room. Liverpool fans hated FSG before they started winning. Spurs fans regularly slated Levy before Poch. Arsenal fan despise Kroenke. Most football fans think their owners are to blame during any period of sustained mediocrity.

Football fans love to use CEOs/boards as scapegoats, b/c they don't have to admit they were wrong about their favorite managers and to a lesser extent players (see Mourinho, Jose)
Click to expand...

Not a bad point but I think some are blaming the Management for their managerial appointments. This is particularly relevant as all since Ferguson have been failures. But that aside you are maybe correct that those managers you listed would if given 3 seasons here have more likely brought success.
 
All f the above. But if I had to pick, I'd say it's the owners responsibility to ensure that the people they hire maintain the club ethos and improve its results. And it's their job to intervene and restructure when its not working. And they're doing feck all.
 
Managers 100 percent, Mourinho signed enough players for a new starting 11 and fell out with the majority of them. Irrespective of his managerial pedigree players are still people you need to get along with them.

Moyes was never good enough period.

Van Gaal was a decent appointment initially in terms of his ethos, but the football was dire lots of possession not enough chances created.

Solskjaer is the most ideal in terms of his commitment to the club, but is a novice tactically, coaching wise, building a competitive team and maintaining a winning formula. Only having witnessed success in Norway the jury is still out but so far he's been massively underwhelming. We haven't improved as a team since Ole has come in, we can give him resources but how does he intend to take the team forward ? After 6 months most of us are left scratching our heads with what he wants to implement it remains a mystery. This is coincidentally the same issue Mourinho had here no direction so he started well and ended poorly.
 
kafta said:
All f the above. But if I had to pick, I'd say it's the owners responsibility to ensure that the people they hire maintain the club ethos and improve its results. And it's their job to intervene and restructure when its not working. And they're doing feck all.
Click to expand...

Yeah it is clearly the biggest problem. A good manager could still solve things by getting the right players in though although it is a very risky structure. The overall culture from the owners as well is pretty bad. Focused on financial gains over the football. How much they are behind the managers are hard to know. I think LVG and Mourinho got money to but players though in the first two seasons. Although after Alexis I think maybe they started to doubt Mourinho and didn't want to spend big another summer.
I think LVG and Mourinho deserves most of the blame for our squad though since I don't think the owners just let the managers look for players. I do think they wanted most of the players they did end up buying.Woodward being terrible at negociations might be a big problem though which prevented us from getting players they wanted.
 
The biggest problem for Manchester United would be the lack of direction. They can surely get much better players than what they already have but I don't think any manager or player can solve their problems unless with how things are done there.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Of course, it's so clear he has just been handed the keys, and told to do what he wants, but it has failed so completely, and so expensively, that they surely must look to change things, but here we are, another summer with same old mistakes about to be repeated, I just can't work it out.
Click to expand...

Because the failure is only on the pitch. The money side is fine.
 


Biggest problem in a nutshell,no big club with any semblance of structure would allow the continual rewarding of mediocrity as we have been post-Fergie.

LvG recently said what I've bitched and moaned about for years,we need football men in charge of the football related decisions at the club. Not fecking suits (Real and Barca can pull it off mainly due to the fact that they have elections every so often meant to actually hold, whoever is in charge of decision making, accountable)

Our lot can burn money and waste time continuously and unbothered without issue so long as the profits keep on rolling
 
Rolaholic said:


Biggest problem in a nutshell,no big club with any semblance of structure would allow the continual rewarding of mediocrity as we have been post-Fergie.

LvG recently said what I've bitched and moaned about for years,we need football men in charge of the football related decisions at the club. Not fecking suits (Real and Barca can pull it off mainly due to the fact that they have elections every so often meant to actually hold, whoever is in charge of decision making, accountable)

Our lot can burn money and waste time continuously and unbothered without issue so long as the profits keep on rolling
Click to expand...

That tweet isn't accurate.
 
MackRobinson said:
That tweet isn't accurate.
Click to expand...

We still have the most in the accurate figures while the next closest clubs (Liverpool and Chelsea) have major silverware and final appearences to show for their trouble and patience...

The most we've gotten out of it is a 2nd rate continental cup after being continuously amongst the highest spenders in Europe
 
An issue for 1 year, its an anomaly. for 2 years, its the players. for 3 years, its the manager. for 4 years, its the system (CEO). for 7 years - definitely the owners.
 
Rolaholic said:
Click to expand...


No big secret. We badly need to replace the so-called “squad” players. Unfortunately, Lingard, Young, and Jones are going nowhere, even though they are not even close to being good “squad” players. These players go back to the SAF “no value in the market” eea. We will be lucky to get rid of Rojo and Darmian, two reminders of LVG’s terrible transfers.
 
Now they are saying that we are buying young British players. They are simply not good enough as we can see from Lingard Rashford etc.
 
The players reflect the manager. The manager reflects the owners. Until we have owners who prioritize the product on the pitch over the product off it, we simply won't be able to count on the team to compete consistently in line with our resources.
 
It's the managers, and because of that it's the men who appointed them. Not only did they appoint them but they also didn't get rid when they were supposed to. The problem is the men tasked to replace Sir Alex knew absolutely nothing about doing Sir Alex's job. While he ran the club, or at least the football side of the club we hired men who run training sessions. It was always going to end in tears. Sir Alex tried to explain to Moyes but it went in one ear and out the other.

Our biggest issue is we're transitioning through managerial style. We were an old style club under Sir Alex which is borderline obsolete in the football world but forgot to put everything in place for a more modern way of running the club.
 
A total rebuild is so hard, and such a downer. It's like starting all over again in middle age. Feels like a great idea when you've got a temporary boost of energy. But all the rest of the time when you've actually got to take steps it feels laughably impractical. Ole's stunned late-season expression on the bench captured it perfectly.
The club is currently hemmed in by beautiful clever young talented rivals. Unfortunately, I fear we are going to have to murder them or wait for them to die in some sudden accident.
 
It’s obviously our owners who are our problem. Their takeover destroyed us for years from competing for the very best players with long contracts plus a modern structure should have been implemented 10 years ago.
They won’t leave until our club is dried up either. Our star has fallen in the past 5 years for players so how long is it until investors start seeing other opportunities elsewhere at other increasingly profitable clubs?
I hope we do a Bayern and resurrect but I just can’t see it with our current setup. Just look at our manager and coaches for one... Awful standard for the supposedly ‘biggest club in the world’.
It’s worked though. They have successfully lowered fans expectations and with Ole in charge we have a manager who fans will get behind despite him been inept. I want our club to become the modern Manchester United not some old boys nostalgia club. Why aren’t we throwing blank checks at new ideas / great coaches instead of slightly above average average players?
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
I get that why most people are choosing the owners to be at fault, what I can't understand is that they seem to happy to throw money at it with a clear lack of direction, or any sort of plan, and most importantly having the wrong people running things, with seemingly no appetite to change the approach.

I understand why Ed is the untouchable golden boy, but just stick him on the commercial side now he's proved so blatantly crap at anything else for us, and get the right people on the footballing side, it's not like it'd cost them more.
Click to expand...

I think the issue is the type of player the board are happy to throw money at are often the players that come with a commercial prospect. Say what you will about Pogba on the field, he is absolute PR gold off it. Signing players like Pogba and Sanchez means you get to create these stupid announcement videos that have Stormzy in, and get millions of views that end up strengthening the United brand worldwide.

To be clear I don't want that trend to continue, but that is why they will continue to make that kind of purchase.

Remember the week we signed Falcao, Di Maria and Rojo; it was wild. Everyone was talking about Manchester United again, and how good we were going to be, and that we were the new galaticos. It would have done amazing things for any sponsorship deals. But on the pitch they were completely pony.

This is what the owners are happy to occasionally splurge on. They wouldn't be ok with spending on the sorts of players Liverpool did at the time, who have been gold for them. I think we missed out on Mane because the board didn't see him as glamorous enough so he wasn't a priority.

They have now also got themselves in a lose lose situation with Ed. In any business you cannot take away half of an exec's responsibilities without it causing real issues, and he has performed to well for them commercially for them to happily see him leave. The trick is to get him to think he needs help and some kind of transfer committee, rather than just wrenching it off of him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sultan
Rolaholic said:
We still have the most in the accurate figures while the next closest clubs (Liverpool and Chelsea) have major silverware and final appearences to show for their trouble and patience...

The most we've gotten out of it is a 2nd rate continental cup after being continuously amongst the highest spenders in Europe
Click to expand...
The numbers are so close together they barely matter (I think Spurs have 19 while United have 21).
 
glazed said:
Because the failure is only on the pitch. The money side is fine.
Click to expand...

The money side is fine for now, but if this continues then it might not be soon, or at least we won't see the growth we should, and to the stone cold business men that our owners clearly are, then that has to be an issue.

If the Glazers had just spent a few quid here and there, and said chasing at the top is too expensive then I'd understand it all a bit more, but enough has been spent to expect decent football and a strong challenge, and to then reap the benefits from that, (extra prem & CL prize money, and extra TV & sponsorship money, etc), yet they seem blind to it, and history just keeps repeating itself, and all the time our reputation & image is been damaged by these actions, it's like self harm now.
 
All 3 in the title. Manager doesnt have experience at the top level and hasnt shown anything so far to suggest he is the man to turn this around. 90% of the players are here for the $$ and dont care about the club. The 10% that do care about the club are not good enough. The owners whilst do provide investment for recruitment, have allowed our Management structure to become outdated, where we rely on Ed to run the footballing side of the club.
 
All of it, but as the owners are the only constant and are at the top of the hierarchy, I’d go with them. Their inability to appoint the right man who would’ve dealt with the footballing part cost us dearly.
 
Rolaholic said:


Biggest problem in a nutshell,no big club with any semblance of structure would allow the continual rewarding of mediocrity as we have been post-Fergie.

LvG recently said what I've bitched and moaned about for years,we need football men in charge of the football related decisions at the club. Not fecking suits (Real and Barca can pull it off mainly due to the fact that they have elections every so often meant to actually hold, whoever is in charge of decision making, accountable)

Our lot can burn money and waste time continuously and unbothered without issue so long as the profits keep on rolling
Click to expand...


This is the sort of statistic that would be reversed on its head if it were Liverpool in sixth and United winning the Champions League.

‘Stable United’ versus ‘Liverpool the Revolving Door’.

I’m not saying we’re not slow to shift players (we have been for over ten years, actually) but this statistic isn’t really the lens I’d look through to support that.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
If the Glazers had just spent a few quid here and there, and said chasing at the top is too expensive then I'd understand it all a bit more, but enough has been spent to expect decent football and a strong challenge, and to then reap the benefits from that, (extra prem & CL prize money, and extra TV & sponsorship money, etc), yet they seem blind to it, and history just keeps repeating itself, and all the time our reputation & image is been damaged by these actions, it's like self harm now.
Click to expand...

The point is not the amount they spend so much as the way they spend it. It's spent with commercial imperatives above football ones. And top four is considered success.
 
Managers. I think there is a lot of over-complicating, and over-analysis of things people know little to nothing about.

What I do know is that we play football. From what I’ve seen of the players in our squad throughout their careers - they should play better than they do for us. From what I see watching our team and other top sides - we have no consistent footballing style or strategy. The teams that DO have cohesive teams have much heralded managers. However, people on here love to delude themselves that they can actually string more than two accurate sentences about what Beguristain for example actually does better than others.

Liverpool put out the following XI that beat Barcelona 4-0 at Anfield:

Allison

Trent Alexander-Arnold
Joel Matip
Virgil Van Dijk
Andy Robertson

Fabinho
James Milner
Jordan Henderson

Xherdan Shaqiri
Divock Origi
Sadio Mane

People still seem to think we need to have the best XI in the world to perform with some self-respect. Unless Woodward, Arnold or any other suit is going to coach the side, then during the season, the responsibility of getting performances out of the squad of players rests with the manager and his staff. The players are good enough to have performed better than they have, for a long time. Half the caf want a whole Paul Pogba to be sold, while Pochettino has managed to get a tune out of Moussa fexking Sissoko all year.

Tired of the excuses and overcomplications. Our managers should get the most they can out of the squad they have, and when they can do that, I might shift my blame to the suits above for not getting them better players to go even further. But when you are losing at home to Cardiff City, the blame starts and ends at Carrington to me.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Of course, it's so clear he has just been handed the keys, and told to do what he wants, but it has failed so completely, and so expensively, that they surely must look to change things, but here we are, another summer with same old mistakes about to be repeated, I just can't work it out.
Click to expand...

Yep

 
Everything probably comes back to a period in the 90s. We decided that we were a brand/commercial vehicle as much as a football club.

This eventually leads to the Glazer takeover. This eventually leads to mediocrity being the norm.

It was all so preventable
 
MancunianAngels said:
Everything probably comes back to a period in the 90s. We decided that we were a brand/commercial vehicle as much as a football club.

This eventually leads to the Glazer takeover. This eventually leads to mediocrity being the norm.

It was all so preventable
Click to expand...
How would you have "prevented" "it". And what is "it"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.