Our Collapses

[SER19]

This is a disturbing trend that now needs examination. It’s clearly not a one off.

Last season

Semi Final vs Sevilla - went out with a whimper, never looked like scoring after going behind.

vs City- ripped apart at Old Trafford, killing the tie before second leg

vs Chelsea- a nothing performance, brushed aside by chelsea who stayed in second gear.

This Season

Cl group - needed one draw from final two games to make the knockout. Lost both, conceding 6

Premier League- went top and fell off a cliff

Semi Final- destroyed by city without laying a glove

Get the dream semi final draw to break the run of 4 losses, and turn in an embarrassing second half performance, battered around the pitch by Leicester.

This is now a clear pattern of truly collapsing when it comes to the crunch. While being pro Solskjaer, is a new manager the only way to change this?

 

[bsCallout]

As posted in another thread too.

No team has a squad that can compete in all competitions except City.

This Leicester team went out early in the EL. We are still in it. We've now had to play 3 days later, when they've had a week's rest.

I hate to say it but I think we have to prioritise what cups we want to really play for, like Liverpool did to win the CL then the Prem.

That Chelsea team we lost to last year were much more rested than us also.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Doesn't help when the manager gives a public interview downplaying the importance of trophies.

 

[Judge Red]

We haven’t been able to cope with two matches per week, especially when we get hard cup ties all the time.

A result like this isn’t a shock. Leicester were more rested and much better.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

First season vs Wolves in the cup too that was really bad. Vs Barca was more ok, but De Gea was pure shit in it.

 

[TheNewEra]

I expected Leicester to win today, the reality is United aren't a well balanced team and the issue is the first string is also in terrible form right now.

Bruno has dipped recently, Rashford is missing chances for fun, the team has no right wing and playing with Martial is like playing with 10 men.

Martial literally jogs to a ball or stands still, moans if the pass is to the side of him and doesn't run for it. Doesn't make runs in behind, doesn't make any movement, takes a few touches and falls over and sometimes and generally has his back to goal when he does get it.

United literally need to go all out for a RW and a striker.

The defence is fine in most games, the attack needs a lot of work.

 

[Maluco]

As posted in another thread too.

No team has a squad that can compete in all competitions except City.

This Leicester team went out early in the EL. We are still in it. We've now had to play 3 days later, when they've had a week's rest.

I hate to say it but I think we have to prioritise what cups we want to really play for, like Liverpool did to win the CL then the Prem.

That Chelsea team we lost to last year were much more rested than us also.

This isn’t a good enough explanation anymore. There are too many examples in too many games. The quality of performances is all over the places and he continues to have some really bad lows after being here for so long.

The evidence should be clear now. There are enough terrible minutes on the pitch to demonstrate that the coaching isn’t working and results will never be consistent that way.

Sorry Ole, time to go

 

[arnie_ni]

Doesn't help when the manager gives a public interview downplaying the importance of trophies.

A week before we went on the shit run in the league he downplayed it as well.

 

[groovyalbert]

Ole is a fecking loser. You just have to watch him and listen to him to realise this.

He leaves, no big club would hire him.

That's my Trump take on us right now. And it isn't wrong

 

[sect2k]

As posted in another thread too.

No team has a squad that can compete in all competitions except City.

This Leicester team went out early in the EL. We are still in it. We've now had to play 3 days later, when they've had a week's rest.

I hate to say it but I think we have to prioritise what cups we want to really play for, like Liverpool did to win the CL then the Prem.

That Chelsea team we lost to last year were much more rested than us also.

Blah, blah, blah, excuses, blah, blah, blah, blah, same old same, old, always with the excuses.

We're not good enough, starting with management.

 

[charlenefan]

This is a disturbing trend that now needs examination. It’s clearly not a one off.

Last season

Semi Final vs Sevilla - went out with a whimper, never looked like scoring after going behind.

vs City- ripped apart at Old Trafford, killing the tie before second leg

vs Chelsea- a nothing performance, brushed aside by chelsea who stayed in second gear.

This Season

Cl group - needed one draw from final two games to make the knockout. Lost both, conceding 6

Premier League- went top and fell off a cliff

Semi Final- destroyed by city without laying a glove

Get the dream semi final draw to break the run of 4 losses, and turn in an embarrassing second half performance, battered around the pitch by Leicester.

This is now a clear pattern of truly collapsing when it comes to the crunch. While being pro Solskjaer, is a new manager the only way to change this?

went behind against Sevilla with like 15 mins to go, hardly a huge left of time left was there
lost to City due to having to play a defence with Phil Jones in it and a midfield with Fred and Andreas
lost to Chelsea due to dodgy team selection and GK errors

CL Group, should have battered PSG fair enough shocking in Germany
PL after going top, well let's be honest we're not the best team in the league are we and we were always going to drop off eventually
SF v City, destroyed? Really? Have a word with yourself

The only common theme with what you've said and today is that twice now Ole has put out a dodgy team in the FA Cup which has cost us

 

[cyberman]

Why is this quarter final a crunch and the quarters we win, aren't?
We lost a game, its not a collapse. We have gone out of the FA cup after roatating too many players for 2 years in a row now.

 

[MU655]

It is not a good look, to be honest. I wouldn't be shocked if we are knocked out by Granada after getting a good result in the PL.

 

[Random Task]

Ole is a fecking loser. You just have to watch him and listen to him to realise this.

He leaves, no big club would hire him.

That's my Trump take on us right now. And it isn't wrong

I mean.... what?

 

[SER19]

As posted in another thread too.

No team has a squad that can compete in all competitions except City.

This Leicester team went out early in the EL. We are still in it. We've now had to play 3 days later, when they've had a week's rest.

I hate to say it but I think we have to prioritise what cups we want to really play for, like Liverpool did to win the CL then the Prem.

That Chelsea team we lost to last year were much more rested than us also.

We haven’t been able to cope with two matches per week, especially when we get hard cup ties all the time.

A result like this isn’t a shock. Leicester were more rested and much better.

I expected Leicester to win today, the reality is United aren't a well balanced team and the issue is the first string is also in terrible form right now.

Bruno has dipped recently, Rashford is missing chances for fun, the team has no right wing and playing with Martial is like playing with 10 men.

Martial literally jogs to a ball or stands still, moans if the pass is to the side of him and doesn't run for it. Doesn't make runs in behind, doesn't make any movement, takes a few touches and falls over and sometimes and generally has his back to goal when he does get it.

United literally need to go all out for a RW and a striker.

The defence is fine in most games, the attack needs a lot of work.

None of you are wrong in what you’re saying here, but none of it explains the 6 instances of miserable, weak utter failure at times where there was something tangible to lose or gain. I love solskjaer to bits, but some managers are born winners and it’s reflected in players. This happens too much when it matters

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Our coaching staff is awful. Whats to think about?

Do you see any difference between this match and the first performance of the season against Palace? No.

 

[Random Task]

Why is this quarter final a crunch and the quarters we win, aren't?
We lost a game, its not a collapse. Ww have gone out of the FA cup after roatating too many players for 2 years in a row now.

Yup.

The only thing we learned tonight (we probably knew it already but whatever) is that our squad is paper-thin and needs significant investment if the club plans to challenge on all fronts.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

There’s still a chance of this season really going tits up. If these types of performances keep up we could be out the top 4 and the only remaining cup competition we’re still in. Then where the feck do we go from there? Any so called “progress” would have gone well and truly out the window.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Don't know... Playing too many games in a short span of time, players injured and some returning from injury, congested schedule, many factors might explain todays flat performance.. but it doesn't excuse it one bit ... The players and manager are culpable for these shit performances at critical times in the season.

Now only an EL win will allow us to consider this season acceptable as well as 2nd in the league

 

[TheNewEra]

Our coaching staff is awful. Whats to think about?

Do you see any difference between this match and the first performance of the season against Palace? No.

I'm not saying Solskjaer is the right or wrong man for the job, when he was hired I was really skeptical actually, and I said to friends (he's not the right manager for the club) that all this was a response to not being under Jose anymore.

I can't say if Solskjear is right or wrong, all I can say is the attack isn't good enough for United.

 

[SER19]

went behind against Sevilla with like 15 mins to go, hardly a huge left of time left was there
lost to City due to having to play a defence with Phil Jones in it and a midfield with Fred and Andreas
lost to Chelsea due to dodgy team selection and GK errors

CL Group, should have battered PSG fair enough shocking in Germany
PL after going top, well let's be honest we're not the best team in the league are we and we were always going to drop off eventually
SF v City, destroyed? Really? Have a word with yourself

The only common theme with what you've said and today is that twice now Ole has put out a dodgy team in the FA Cup which has cost us

These are all excuses. Lose? Fine. Lose in the manners we have? Unforgivable. To collapse in the league immediately after going top isn’t a coincidence either. We should be able to put out a reserve squad and see more than what we saw today. Are you happy to go out of a cup like that? There’s nothing to lose, they should be hammering at them non stop. Leicester looked more likely to score. It was embarrassing to watch like all the other examples.

 

[Bubz27]

But we beat Leicester to qualify for CL last year. We didn't bottle that so all the other bottles don't mean as much.

We didn't bottle top 4 (bars on the floor isn't it) but we do keep bottling elsewhere. But trophies are for egos. League positions show progress and we finished 3rd last year and we're 1 point above 3rd this year. If that's not progress, show me what is.

 

[charlenefan]

These are all excuses. Lose? Fine. Lose in the manners we have? Unforgivable. To collapse in the league immediately after going top isn’t a coincidence either. We should be able to put out a reserve squad and see more than what we saw today. Are you happy to go out of a cup like that? There’s nothing to lose, they should be hammering at them non stop. Leicester looked more likely to score. It was embarrassing to watch like all the other examples.

they're not excuses, they're reasons and proving your things are black and white standpoint is incorrect

i blame the manager for his team selection and the performance or lack thereof of those players for the defeat

 

[VP89]

I said this in another thread but il post it here too - there's too much being read into cup form. Like the term cup collapses is so over the top.

We beat Milan, we beat Sociedad who are not walkover sides. Before a bad performance today we did beat West Ham and Liverpool. We beat Everton in a cup too.

Last season we convincingly beat Chelsea in the PL back to back but got outplayed in the FA Cup quarters. It happens in the FA cup, its down to how the team turns up on the day.

If you look at Jose winning against Ajax or LVG vs Palace in their finals, it was far from convincing and their run to the final was far more generous than what Ole has been dealt. Citys first test came yesterday vs Everton. Chelsea never got tested until today's draw

I see us today discouraged we were knocked out to Leicester, but I look at our cup run and see the teams we set aside, like the Champions of England for example, and don't see it as a concerning problem because of that. We can turn up in the cup but its not easy to go all the way when the draws are constantly difficult ones.

 

[bsCallout]

This isn’t a good enough explanation anymore. There are too many examples in too many games. The quality of performances is all over the places and he continues to have some really bad lows after being here for so long.

The evidence should be clear now. There are enough terrible minutes on the pitch to demonstrate that the coaching isn’t working and results will never be consistent that way.

Sorry Ole, time to go

Blah, blah, blah, excuses, blah, blah, blah, blah, same old same, old, always with the excuses.

We're not good enough, starting with management.

I know you're upset but be objective.

Liverpool are often out of FA Cup and League Cup early. To prioritise.

Leicester got knocked out of the EL and League cup early.

We've basically fielded the same team is all comps, all season. You have to prioritise, ESPECIALLY when we aren't good enough to win even one of them yet.

The only other team that seems to have a big enough squad is Chelsea and they've managed the cups well, but got a gift last season against us due to extra rest.

This is not to deflect from our weaknesses, this is to highlight them. It's not excuses, it's explanations. This Leicester team is at a similar level with both teams being fresh, to then travel back from Europe and have less rest gives them a very nice advantage. The Thursday-Sunday has always been bad for teams.

 

[SER19]

Why is this quarter final a crunch and the quarters we win, aren't?
We lost a game, its not a collapse. We have gone out of the FA cup after roatating too many players for 2 years in a row now.

Yup.

The only thing we learned tonight (we probably knew it already but whatever) is that our squad is paper-thin and needs significant investment if the club plans to challenge on all fronts.

except I’m clearly not talking about one game am I? yet again an opportunity presented itself, a bloody semi final with Southampton and that’s the second half we offered. I don’t care about losing, i care about losing like that yet again. How I’d kill for the United that went out with a bit of heart

 

[Jeppers7]

I mean.... what?

To be fair he said the other week....”we need to make sure we finish second or third”

I’m sorry but no way SAF says that. SAF says “if we can’t finish first we have to make sure we finish second...anything less is not acceptable”

 

[SER19]

they're not excuses, they're reasons and proving your things are black and white standpoint is incorrect

i blame the manager for his team selection and the performance or lack thereof of those players for the defeat

Every single time we’ve failed weve failed like cowards. I’ve watched United long enough to accept losses like an adult. But not like this, not like the Cl group bottle job and not like going top of the premier league and becoming absolutely terrified at the thought.

 

[Maluco]

I know you're upset but be objective.

Liverpool are often out of FA Cup and League Cup early. To prioritise.

Leicester got knocked out of the EL and League cup early.

We've basically fielded the same team is all comps, all season. You have to prioritise, ESPECIALLY when we aren't good enough to win even one of them yet.

The only other team that seems to have a big enough squad is Chelsea and they've managed the cups well, but got a gift last season against us due to extra rest.

This is not to deflect from our weaknesses, this is to highlight them. It's not excuses, it's explanations. This Leicester team is at a similar level with both teams being fresh, to then travel back from Europe and have less rest gives them a very nice advantage. The Thursday-Sunday has always been bad for teams.

They are not at a similar level. They are competing because our manager is failing to get the required level out of very talented young footballers. We can’t start downgrading their ability because they are not improving and not being coached properly.

Purely on footballing ability, our first team is miles better than Leicester and our squad is vastly superior.

We need a manager who knows how to get the most out of what we have. We are not on the same level as Leicester and saying that is lowering standards to protect the manager. We are far better and should be showing that.

 

[Nickelodeon]

'Ole is the ultimate exemplar of ... someone in Manchester United who has tremendous character, is incredibly well connected with the culture and history of the club.

'No one in the world is happier than me with the phenomenal success he is bringing.’

This was Richard Arnold speaking last week. No one demands success so no one is bothered that we’re not winning anything. What used to be bare minimum expectations even post Fergie is considered phenomenal success now.

We either need a complete overhaul in the club right from owners to players or we need a manager who can single-handedly drive the club to the very top. Neither seems likely.

 

[charlenefan]

Every single time we’ve failed weve failed like cowards. I’ve watched United long enough to accept losses like an adult. But not like this, not like the Cl group bottle job and not like going top of the premier league and becoming absolutely terrified at the thought.

you sure about that? I dunno moaning on an Internet forum after a defeat doesn't scream adult response to me but whatever does it for you

 

[bsCallout]

They are not at a similar level. They are competing because our manager is failing to get the required level out of very talented young footballers. We can’t start downgrading their ability because they are not improving and not being coached properly.

Purely on footballing ability, our first team is miles better than Leicester and our squad is vastly superior.

We need a manager who knows how to get the most out of what we have. We are not on the same level as Leicester and saying that is lowering standards to protect the manager. We are far better and should be showing that.

You completely ignored the rest of the post which was the important bit and focused on that tiny bit which we could argue about until the cows come home.

But I'll entertain the point - McT/Matic/Fred is not better than Ndidi/Tielemens, its not even close. Their CB's are on par. Their GK is better. Their Strikers are also arguably better but at the very least, inform and more experienced.

 

[SER19]

'Ole is the ultimate exemplar of ... someone in Manchester United who has tremendous character, is incredibly well connected with the culture and history of the club.

'No one in the world is happier than me with the phenomenal success he is bringing.’

This was Richard Arnold speaking last week. No one demands success so no one is bothered that we’re not winning anything. What used to be bare minimum expectations even post Fergie is considered phenomenal success now.

We either need a complete overhaul in the club right from owners to players or we need a manager who can single-handedly drive the club to the very top. Neither seems likely.

see, those quotes are absolutely mental. If Ferguson had a team of reserves out and at half time they were told Southampton were waiting in the semi final they’d have come out second half like men possessed. challenging, racing, tracking like their lives depended on it. United came out today and handed the game to Leicester. Somehow looked far worse than they did in the first half

 

[cyberman]

except I’m clearly not talking about one game am I? yet again an opportunity presented itself, a bloody semi final with Southampton and that’s the second half we offered. I don’t care about losing, i care about losing like that yet again. How I’d kill for the United that went out with a bit of heart

The draw was made while we playing the third best side in the league. How is that an oppertunity? We didnt lose against Southampton.

 

[Wheato]

We lost to a really good side who haven't played for 7 days. We played a tough game in Italy on Thursday night. We were shattered. It happens.

 

[SER19]

you sure about that? I dunno moaning on an Internet forum after a defeat doesn't scream adult response to me but whatever does it for you

That’s such a petty thing to say. Loads of people use the forum to discuss things about United and I see a really worrying trend in the manner of our failures, not so much the failures themselves. Why make it personal and shitty for no reason?

 

[SER19]

The draw was made while we playing the third best side in the league. How is that an oppertunity? We didnt lose against Southampton.

If you’re happy with the manner of that loss, knowing what the reward would be, then good luck to you.

 

[SER19]

We lost to a really good side who haven't played for 7 days. We played a tough game in Italy on Thursday night. We were shattered. It happens.

thread isn’t about 1 game.

 

[groovyalbert]

I mean.... what?

I bet he won't prove this comment wrong. Unless he wins a trophy with us, everything I said is true.

Saddest part is I'm not even Ole out. That's how low my expectations have got with this club. We're a best of the rest operation.

 

[GazTheLegend]

We haven’t been able to cope with two matches per week, especially when we get hard cup ties all the time.

A result like this isn’t a shock. Leicester were more rested and much better.

This. Having to rest our players today told us our priorities. Hopefully Rashford is sent home by England he's another one that needs a break!