Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?

A-man

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For those thinking our defence is too poor for challenging for the title or even top-4, I’m curious, what teams have a defence that is good enough to be challenging for the title?
 

Ekeke

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For those thinking our defence is too poor for challenging for the title or even top-4, I’m curious, what teams have a defence that is good enough to be challenging for the title?
Liverpool, City and Chelsea maybe - decent record but they just lost 2 matches in a row. But none of them would if Lindelof was starting for them.

Spurs have the best record but I give a lot of credit to Hojberg in front of them and a lesser extent Sissoko, not sure Tobi and Dier is it without that help.

I quite like Soyuncu and Fofana at Leicester but I dont think they're ready this season to be a title winning defence so maybe in 2 years if they progress.
 

Harry190

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52nd minute, corner. Right hand side of the post if facing in the direction of the other team. Wide open. Same Thing Every God Damn Game.

Also where the McGoldrick goal fumbled in.
 

Tarrou

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why do always have to toss about with it at the back in the first 10 minutes?

just fecking launch it

when the game settles a bit then you can start doing that
 

Trophy Room

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I think our propensity to leak unnecessary goals will eventually cost us any chance we have of fighting for the title.
 

A-man

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Liverpool, City and Chelsea maybe - decent record but they just lost 2 matches in a row. But none of them would if Lindelof was starting for them.

Spurs have the best record but I give a lot of credit to Hojberg in front of them and a lesser extent Sissoko, not sure Tobi and Dier is it without that help.

I quite like Soyuncu and Fofana at Leicester but I dont think they're ready this season to be a title winning defence so maybe in 2 years if they progress.
If we look at the back lines of those teams I wouldn’t say they are better than us. City have a better defence considering the whole team, maybe also Chelsea. Liverpool don’t look very solid imo, they have no clue on counters for example. Agree what you wrote about Spurs.

I’ve been watching a lot of football this season and I think all “top teams” have been full of mistakes and poor performances in the defence. Our team is not different in that perspective.City seem to have adjusted and start to look solid, at the expense of not scoring goals however...
 

G-MUFC

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I think our propensity to leak unnecessary goals will eventually cost us any chance we have of fighting for the title.
100%. All the other top clubs would be very happy for us to keep our defence as it is. That says it all.
Having a poor defence will bite us time and time again this season.
 

croadyman

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What do you think is the best way for us to get by without a fast CB or proper CDM until the summer because think we will need to prepare ourselves for that situation
 

BigBebe

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Are you the ref?
why do always have to toss about with it at the back in the first 10 minutes?

just fecking launch it

when the game settles a bit then you can start doing that
I was thinking the same. Sheffield Utd are not exactly a renowned pressing team but still, they spooked our back 5. Why don't we lump it forward for Rashford, Martial, Greenwood to run on to - if the ball is behind them, the pressing team will stop pressing. Once that has happened a few times, the game will calm down and we can start to play through midfield again.
 

OhGee

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I am not shifting blame here but why the feck was Harry passing it back to Henderson? He had no clear angle to play to, plus a player pressing him. If Henderson's next move was to lump it up field why didn't our captain just lump it himself? Every single game we are conceding from a set piece. We don't win headers and again corner to our near post ends up in the net. Comical
Because ‘Arry thinks he is Franz FeckinBauer and wants to pass and sweep up all the time when all he is good at is heading - Lindelof is a much better passer than him as shown again last night with the assist for the first goal. Big ‘Arry is a good old English defender - a far lesser version of Tony Adams and he should stick to what he is good at and not try to be something he isn’t.
 

Stacks

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If we look at the back lines of those teams I wouldn’t say they are better than us. City have a better defence considering the whole team, maybe also Chelsea. Liverpool don’t look very solid imo, they have no clue on counters for example. Agree what you wrote about Spurs.

I’ve been watching a lot of football this season and I think all “top teams” have been full of mistakes and poor performances in the defence. Our team is not different in that perspective.City seem to have adjusted and start to look solid, at the expense of not scoring goals however...
At their best they have conceded as little as 22 and 23 goals for a prem season. they genuinely concede less than us whilst also playing attack minded football. We play kinda reserved, score less and concede more
 

Adam-Utd

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This is truly shit defending.
All started from Matic running out and completely losing his duel, then not having any desire or speed to recover.

Then Maguire decides to come out of position to stop him and leaves a gaping hole.

You can see why we give up so many chances, there's just no understanding between our players and they've all got a mistake in them.

My god though Matic was SO POOR that first half.
 

UpWithRivers

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All started from Matic running out and completely losing his duel, then not having any desire or speed to recover.

Then Maguire decides to come out of position to stop him and leaves a gaping hole.

You can see why we give up so many chances, there's just no understanding between our players and they've all got a mistake in them.

My god though Matic was SO POOR that first half.
Thats not Matics fault. Losing duels happens. The problem was no one tracking the midfielder.
This just typifies that the problem is to do with more than the quality of our players. We make mistakes like this all the time. Who is tracking the runner from midfield? No one. School boy defending. Looks to be Pogba at fault. He is ball watching and not looking behind him. You can list another 10,20 plus instances of really basic mistakes over the last few games. I dont care if we had Van Dijk and Koulibailly at CB. If you dont get your shape right and do the basics right you will concede goals.
The second Sheff United goal happens in football. Yes it shouldn't and we could have done better but every team concedes goals. Its the other goals and these kinds of opportunities we give away that are just brain farts thats our problem. The conceding in the first 10 mins. Thats our problem. The crosses that just go over all our defenders and find a man free in the box i.e. Leipzig. Thats our problem.
At the risk of repeating myself in every forum its largely down to changing personnel every game.
 

Adam-Utd

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Thats not Matics fault. Losing duels happens. The problem was no one tracking the midfielder.
I think you need to watch it again but before the clip starts.

Matic runs out to him, completely gets done with a ball flicked over his head and then fails to get back and challenge him. He leaves a gaping whole in the first place (matic was poor all first half)

He is the reason the attack starts and finishes, you can't move blame anywhere else.
 

Sylar

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There are 15 teams better than us on HOME game defence.
Is this based on goals allowed overall?
As we've conceded 10 and 9 we're in 2 games

I'm not saying were great either but the two games does skew it when looking at it analytically.

Overall I see a few issues with our defence:

-playing from the back, it's a bit slow to begin with and the players aren't spread out. They are on top of each other allowing opposition to close down easier. Maguire and lindelof should spread when the keeper has the ball, the DM should be in between to collect the ball, and also the option to go long. I've seen us concede against Southampton(last season), spurs and now Sheffield United the same way

-defending crosses to the back post. This affects awb more. We're always vulnerable to this

-defending set pieces
I swear we concede from a corner nearly every game and it's not improving
 

Ekeke

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If we look at the back lines of those teams I wouldn’t say they are better than us. City have a better defence considering the whole team, maybe also Chelsea. Liverpool don’t look very solid imo, they have no clue on counters for example. Agree what you wrote about Spurs.

I’ve been watching a lot of football this season and I think all “top teams” have been full of mistakes and poor performances in the defence. Our team is not different in that perspective.City seem to have adjusted and start to look solid, at the expense of not scoring goals however...
All defences make mistakes its about how often. And as importantly, what they do when they arent making mistakes and are playing well. I believe all of them offer more defensively with less help than our CBs get from the fullbacks. Some obviously have better DMs in front of them than ours, especially when Pogba plays as one of them. But overall despite less quality its still 2 players who are deep, dont get in front of the ball and do some defending to help break up attacks so the defence dont have to deal with it
 

A-man

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At their best they have conceded as little as 22 and 23 goals for a prem season. they genuinely concede less than us whilst also playing attack minded football. We play kinda reserved, score less and concede more
At their best...? I’m talking about this season, which is different than other season because of the no pre-season. And even last season no team was close to 22 goals conceded. I have watched every Liverpool game so far and am not impressed. They have bigger problems than us imo.

The balance between scoring goals and conceding is of course important. It’s hard to say if a team sacrifices goals for a better defence or if they are simply poor at scoring. City are the ones who scored least amount of goals and it looks to me they have clearly sacrificed scoring for a better defence. Liverpool is doing the opposite and sacrifice defence with playing a high line with players who don’t have the competence of doing that. But Klopp think it is worth it and is now in the lead.

My point is that I don’t agree with people we can not win the PL because of our back line. The other title contenders don’t have back lines that are a level higher. Maybe slightly better but not a level higher. They all look vulnerable and make mistakes. If our back line is to poor for a team who wants to win, then there is no other team that could win either. Which obviously makes no sense.
 

Stacks

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At their best...? I’m talking about this season, which is different than other season because of the no pre-season. And even last season no team was close to 22 goals conceded. I have watched every Liverpool game so far and am not impressed. They have bigger problems than us imo.

The balance between scoring goals and conceding is of course important. It’s hard to say if a team sacrifices goals for a better defence or if they are simply poor at scoring. City are the ones who scored least amount of goals and it looks to me they have clearly sacrificed scoring for a better defence. Liverpool is doing the opposite and sacrifice defence with playing a high line with players who don’t have the competence of doing that. But Klopp think it is worth it and is now in the lead.

My point is that I don’t agree with people we can not win the PL because of our back line. The other title contenders don’t have back lines that are a level higher. Maybe slightly better but not a level higher. They all look vulnerable and make mistakes. If our back line is to poor for a team who wants to win, then there is no other team that could win either. Which obviously makes no sense.
Well their best CB is out injured so there's that.

I agree with you when you put it like that. this is an open season and anyone who wins it isn't going to do it with a supreme defence
 

UpWithRivers

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I think you need to watch it again but before the clip starts.

Matic runs out to him, completely gets done with a ball flicked over his head and then fails to get back and challenge him. He leaves a gaping whole in the first place (matic was poor all first half)

He is the reason the attack starts and finishes, you can't move blame anywhere else.
Yes I agree but my point is thats the lesser of evils. The team should cope when a man gets beat and it didnt. When United broke through midfield we created chances based on skill, speed and movement. Their shape and positions were correct but there was nothing to be done .When Matic got done we left a man charging from the center circle without getting tracked! Thats what was truly criminal and what happens all the time.
 

rooney2009

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With Fred and Scot in the middle,our defence is ok
It’s all abou your defensive midfielders
Liverpool play Henderson and 2 others
Chelsea have Kante and kovavic
Spurs have Sisoko and Holsberg
 

spiriticon

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Can we bring back Young-Smalling-Blind-Valencia?

That was genuinely the last line-up I felt that we were in safe(ish) hands

I used to think we can do better than Smalling and Blind. Evidently, we can't.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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This is truly shit defending.
Ball watching midfielders. :nervous:

Our defense isn't good on counter due to their lack of pace but that wasn't on quick counter, that was on midfielders fault. I'm sure if we have Kimmich - Goretzka instead, the defense would have been much better. Our midfield without Fred is so criminal defensively.
 

Sandikan

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Because ‘Arry thinks he is Franz FeckinBauer and wants to pass and sweep up all the time when all he is good at is heading - Lindelof is a much better passer than him as shown again last night with the assist for the first goal. Big ‘Arry is a good old English defender - a far lesser version of Tony Adams and he should stick to what he is good at and not try to be something he isn’t.
You can't use Lindelof's one assist ever to try and prove he's a better passer.
He's not. He's Maguire lite in every way.
 

A-man

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What do you think is the best way for us to get by without a fast CB or proper CDM until the summer because think we will need to prepare ourselves for that situation
What goals had been avoided by a fast CB you reckon?
 

KcB32

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This is truly shit defending.
This is shocking. Maguire has nearly 20 yards to get in position and force the attacker to the touchline, but stands there flat footed and lets the attacker play a ball straight through the middle.
 

croadyman

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What goals had been avoided by a fast CB you reckon?
Certainly the Son one against Spurs at Old Trafford and would say at least one of the goals in Istanbul as well. We also would have avoided some with proper leadership in that defence as well
 

A-man

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Certainly the Son one against Spurs at Old Trafford and would say at least one of the goals in Istanbul as well. We also would have avoided some with proper leadership in that defence as well
Interesting choices. You picked goals from matches where Lindelof was replaced 1. Bailly and 2. Tuanzebe, both who are considered very fast.

This kind of illustrates my take on this. Most of the times we have conceded goals for not being fast enough, is when we play CBs who are poor at: anticipation, positioning, decision making and awareness. Didn’t help at all that we played two very fast CBs.
 

Ekeke

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Interesting choices. You picked goals from matches where Lindelof was replaced 1. Bailly and 2. Tuanzebe, both who are considered very fast.

This kind of illustrates my take on this. Most of the times we have conceded goals for not being fast enough, is when we play CBs who are poor at: anticipation, positioning, decision making and awareness. Didn’t help at all that we played two very fast CBs.
Also CBs who arent playing weekly so arent able to play themselves into form so we probably dont see the best of them.
 

A-man

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Also CBs who arent playing weekly so arent able to play themselves into form so we probably dont see the best of them.
Yes but still, it’s funny that the only goals that could have been avoided by a fast CB is when we played a fast CB instead of Lindelof...
 

Ekeke

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Yes but still, it’s funny that the only goals that could have been avoided by a fast CB is when we played a fast CB instead of Lindelof...
Isnt that the point? That people want us to sign a CB with pace, not play Bailly every week because he has pace? And obviously not sign a CB with a bunch of weaknesses despite his pace.

And obviously Tuanzabe has some growing pains, while having 1 great performance. We dont know what we have with him yet so only one way to find out... But like... He's 23 now. Wasnt Lindelof around 23 when we signed him and he first got consistent chances in the first team? So he needs to be given the chance and perform to a good level right about now else hes unlikely to be the solution.