Where's that hipster CBs vs Maguire thread when you need it?
Our Defence - Has it actually been fixed?
- Thread starter Untd55
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Koulibaly was never hipster just class
Oh completely agreed. I got raked over the coals for suggesting that Koulibaly just miiiiiiight still be better than Maguire after the 19/20 season. That thread is an utter trainwreck in retrospect.
They were not English which was a big requirement for Ole's "cultural reboot" to take the club "back to its roots". Also, why Maguire was made captain few months into the season.
Maguire was solid that season, but he's never been in discussion for the best CB in PL. Nevermind, the world. Every fanbase has set of deluded fans who jump on a narrative and don't let it go. We had a good portion of this site anointing Luke Shaw as best LB in the world on back of few months of good form. Both, Maguire and Luke Shaw are average players with poor mentality which is not cut for top clubs harboring the ambition to win things.
Yeah that cultural reboot really worked didn't it
Completely agree. The old adage that form is temporary and class is permanent gets ignored far too frequently in favour of knee-jerking - speaking of the 19/20 season when Hazard had left Chelsea but was ropey at Madrid I saw someone trying to argue that Willian was the better player since he started decently under Lampard. Not trying to be hyperbolic but that was perhaps the worst football opinion made in earnest I've ever come across.
Weird, I came here expecting to read comments about us talking about our defense but instead on the whole page I’m only reading Chelsea fans are spamming the page with his cry because he got bullied on the United forum last time and then started talking irrelevant things about Lampard, hazard and Willian. 
Weird, I came here expecting to read comments about us talking about our defense but instead on the whole page I’m only reading Chelsea fans are spamming the page with his cry because he got bullied on the United forum last time and then started talking irrelevant things about Lampard, hazard and Willian.
Still think Maguire is better then?
Than who? Than Lampard? Hazard? Willian?
Still think Maguire is better then?
What are you on about? I was giving an example to demonstrate that being ridiculous and tribal about your own players isn't limited to United fans. How did that manage to go over your head?Than who? Than Lampard? Hazard? Willian?
Hey, you were also the one who overhyped Lampard as a great manager at Chelsea and month later after you said that, he went in shit form and got sacked. It’s pretty normal some fans to say that about their own especially in the high period whether it’s United fans or Chelsea fans. Don’t cry in here just because of that.
Nice whataboutism there - also never said that Lampard was a great manager, just that we were progressing and that I wouldn't sack him at the time. Obviously that was wrong. Equally obvious is that it's completely irrelevant and you're just trying to distract from the topic at hand. No one is crying in here; why on earth should I be? Rereading that thread is objectively fecking hilarious at this point and I was obviously right. You're the one being sensitive given you've been proven categorically wrong about Maguire being better than Koulibaly.
I didn’t say that you said the exact word of ’’great manager’’ though. I said you overhyped him like he was a great manager at Chelsea. The tactic you explained and so proud of, boy, I remember that, and then month later he got sacked. But hey, you got that wrong just like united fans about Maguire, so Chelsea fans and United fans and also every other clubs fans tend to do this kind of shit. So stop crying about it again. Why should you cry? Because you said that you got raked over the coals. So that’s why you came here, looking for redemption, otherwise, you can’t stop crying if you don’t get your redemption.
Nice whataboutism there - also never said that Lampard was a great manager, just that we were progressing and that I wouldn't sack him at the time. Obviously that was wrong. Equally obvious is that it's completely irrelevant and you're just trying to distract from the topic at hand. No one is crying in here; why on earth should I be? Rereading that thread is objectively fecking hilarious at this point and I was obviously right. You're the one being sensitive given you've been proven categorically wrong about Maguire being better than Koulibaly.
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You are confusing "crying" with "gloating about being unequivocally correct".
When someone brought back an old discussion for a redemption means you were hurt inside and hasn’t move on since then. You can try to hide it but we can see it that you are crying. You were wrong about Lampard while United fans were wrong about Maguire, that‘s fine, anyone can be wrong.
Give me smalling and rojo over lindelof and Maguire, at least smalling knew what it meant to play for united and could actually score from corners and wth rojo he at least has that nasty side and would happily go to war in the big games, yes he wasn't the best defender but he would at least hype the crowd up with his playing style compared to the apathetic and weak lindelof
It's easy to pile the blame on the defence but you've got an erratic goalie behind them who doesn't do the basics and a truly woeful midfield ahead of them. Mane in the first half last night at one point made a tackle in the left back position, I doubt Rashford even crossed the half way line.
A huge part of why Villareal are so good defensively is how the rest of the team is structured and aids the defence when under attack. At United it's the opposite, the defence takes all the flack and gets no support from any other area of the team.
Same applies to our full backs too, there was a point last night when TAA pushed up further and Henderson dropped back into his position to cover him. Our full backs are expected to defend their position with no support and simultaneously push forward to put in the chances that our attacking players aren't creating.
A huge part of why Villareal are so good defensively is how the rest of the team is structured and aids the defence when under attack. At United it's the opposite, the defence takes all the flack and gets no support from any other area of the team.
Same applies to our full backs too, there was a point last night when TAA pushed up further and Henderson dropped back into his position to cover him. Our full backs are expected to defend their position with no support and simultaneously push forward to put in the chances that our attacking players aren't creating.
I sometimes think our fullbacks are even worse than our CBs. Imagine being a CB struggling for form and having the likes of Dalot/Telles alongside you. Dalot and Elanga somehow managed to let Salah and Trent run completely free last night.
Ok, Doogie Howser.I'm not even the one that brought up Koulibaly but it's clear I've touched a nerve - I'll let you wallow in your misery undisturbed.
I wasn't referring to Koulibaly though, I was referring to you crying about how you brought up an old thread looking for redemption since you got raked over the coals in that thread last time. I understand your pain but anyone can be wrong just like you on Lampard and United fans on Maguire, let it go.
I'm not even the one that brought up Koulibaly but it's clear I've touched a nerve - I'll let you wallow in your misery undisturbed.
Glad you admit I was right! Trust me that the sweetness of this moment more than outweighs the horrendous mental trauma I went through. Thank you for the integral role you've played in my redemption!!!
It's nice that you finally can release it now. But it would have been better if you can move on earlier as it's just not healthy to keep holding a grudge in a long time just because you got raked over the coals in forum. There are better life out there.
Fixed like a dog yeah.
43 pages?
The answer is no lads. It hasn't.
The answer is no lads. It hasn't.
In order to fix our defense a few things need to happen
#1 Get a new keeper. De Gea is quite possibly the best shot stopper in the world, but there is so much more to the position than just making saves. We need a keeper who will aggressively help the defense and be a passing outlet. De Gea doesn't offer any of that
#2 Get a proper DM. As it stands, Matic is our only DM and he can't play every game. He is also leaving next year. McTominay and Fred are NOT #6's. They are #8's. We need a proper DM in the mold of Rodri, Fabinho, Carrick, etc...
#3 Play a proper system and have everyone on board. Yesterday our line up was set up to park the bus and play on the counter yet the first goal we conceded had us holding a high line and being hit on the counter. The players need to follow the direction of the manager. If they can't do that, then they all have to go
#1 Get a new keeper. De Gea is quite possibly the best shot stopper in the world, but there is so much more to the position than just making saves. We need a keeper who will aggressively help the defense and be a passing outlet. De Gea doesn't offer any of that
#2 Get a proper DM. As it stands, Matic is our only DM and he can't play every game. He is also leaving next year. McTominay and Fred are NOT #6's. They are #8's. We need a proper DM in the mold of Rodri, Fabinho, Carrick, etc...
#3 Play a proper system and have everyone on board. Yesterday our line up was set up to park the bus and play on the counter yet the first goal we conceded had us holding a high line and being hit on the counter. The players need to follow the direction of the manager. If they can't do that, then they all have to go
No fullback or CB needed?
Perhaps a RB and a centre half to replace Bailly (hopefully one who is good enough to step into the starting 11)...
Sorry mate, I can't hear you over the angelic choir singing in the background as I ascend a golden staircase to my rightful place as a Football OracleGenius who is never wrong about anything ever. I'm afraid you'll have to join the ranks of the arse chapped masses suffering from acute Maguiritis on the handy dandy ignore list. Your contribution to my redemptive arc will never be forgotten!!!!
Very weird.
In theory any incoming manager looks at those centre backs (Maguire, Lindelof, and Varane) and probably thinks that there are more urgent concerns in the squad.
The full backs are so bad it's incredible though and I honestly don't think we've ever had it this bad in the Premiership era. Valencia and Young were miles better than Telles, Dalot and AWB.
The full backs are so bad it's incredible though and I honestly don't think we've ever had it this bad in the Premiership era. Valencia and Young were miles better than Telles, Dalot and AWB.
Just tragic. 130 million in Maguire and Wan Bissaka and we're no better.
AWB is one of the best examples that our scouts haven’t a clue. An English player gets a reputation as a good defender and we splurge £50m on him. Any other big club would have seen that he isn’t competent on the ball.
Maguire is just tragic. He has had some ok runs of form but always had a donkey moment. Combine that with the abysmal runs of form and the £80m price tag and he’s one of our worst signings.
Dalot has potential on the right but is pretty average. Weird one from Jose.
Lindelof is a decent player but just not strong enough for the PL and never seems to have improved that area.
Bailly and Jones are perfect examples of the incompetence we have in getting rid of shite. How Jones got a new contract in 2019 is geuinley mind blowing.
Telles has always done a job but is nowhere near good enough to start for a top team. Shaw is excellent on form but that’s rare, clearly attitude issues with him. We need to get rid if he isn’t willing to pull his weight.
Basically it’s a complete mess.
Maguire is just tragic. He has had some ok runs of form but always had a donkey moment. Combine that with the abysmal runs of form and the £80m price tag and he’s one of our worst signings.
Dalot has potential on the right but is pretty average. Weird one from Jose.
Lindelof is a decent player but just not strong enough for the PL and never seems to have improved that area.
Bailly and Jones are perfect examples of the incompetence we have in getting rid of shite. How Jones got a new contract in 2019 is geuinley mind blowing.
Telles has always done a job but is nowhere near good enough to start for a top team. Shaw is excellent on form but that’s rare, clearly attitude issues with him. We need to get rid if he isn’t willing to pull his weight.
Basically it’s a complete mess.
To have four players in the top ten is a disgrace.
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That is impressive from Matic given how few mins he has played.
It's amazing to me that more pundits haven't acknowledged our fullbacks as a critical failure of both our attacking and defensive play. For all the crap our central defenders get you could put prime Maldini and Rio as the centre backs and they'd look dodgy have to cover for these guys AND having no protection from the midfield.
Telles and Dalot aren't good enough. AWB we need to see under a new manager. Regarding Shaw, he is by far and away our most talented full back but he has issues himself and EtH is apparently a very strict and forceful guy.
What I wouldn't give for a prime Irwin or Paddy Evra
I'd honestly settle for Valencia at this point.
Telles and Dalot aren't good enough. AWB we need to see under a new manager. Regarding Shaw, he is by far and away our most talented full back but he has issues himself and EtH is apparently a very strict and forceful guy.
What I wouldn't give for a prime Irwin or Paddy Evra
I'd honestly settle for Valencia at this point.51 goals conceded with 4 more games to go.
In 2018/2019 when we had Mourinho meltdown, we ended the season with 54 goals conceded.
Nice to see we're going to break our own awful records by our hands.
In 2018/2019 when we had Mourinho meltdown, we ended the season with 54 goals conceded.
Nice to see we're going to break our own awful records by our hands.
We’ve conceded 23 [TWENTY-THREE] more goals than Wolverhampton Wanderers. That statement should never be true.
My abiding memory of Graeme Hogg during that era is of him thumping the ball into the stand at his own end every time he came under pressure!
I thought this thread was about this season
But anyway I read an interesting fact that we have most clean sheets than City & I think Newcastle but have conceded more goals largely do to the fact that we conceeded 17 goals in just 3 games!!! Take those anomalies out next season and I'd say we have a solid platform for next season. I think just scoring 10 more goals this season could have got us competing for the title.
But anyway I read an interesting fact that we have most clean sheets than City & I think Newcastle but have conceded more goals largely do to the fact that we conceeded 17 goals in just 3 games!!! Take those anomalies out next season and I'd say we have a solid platform for next season. I think just scoring 10 more goals this season could have got us competing for the title.
Goals conceded since LVG took over: 37, 35, 29, 28, 54, 36, 44, 57, 43 (Ten Hag)
Expected goals against since LVG took over (from Understat): 39.84, 39.66, 31.62, 43.54, 52.30, 38.06, 41.92, 56.85, 50.29 (Ten Hag) - Fbref's figure is 50.4 for this season.
Open play shots against (from Understat): 253, 270, 248, 335, 355, 268, 320, 364, 318 (Ten Hag)
Penalties conceded (scored): 4(3), 2(2), 5(4), 1(1), 6(6), 3(3), 4(4), 5(3), 3(2) (Ten Hag)
Goals against from corners (expected): 7(6.15), 4(6.99), 3(3.60), 5(8.46), 8(7.62), 9(6.13), 9(5.29), 4(7.63), 6(9.44)
Shots against from inside 6 yard box: 35, 26, 25, 32, 41, 30, 35, 38, 57 (Ten Hag)
Shots against from inside penalty area but not 6 yard box: 213, 240, 167, 229, 242, 209, 239, 287, 264 (Ten Hag)
In simple terms, we conceded far too many shots from dangerous positions and got away with it, though unlike Mourinho's 2nd season, it wasn't due to De Gea making incredible saves, as both his save percentage and his post shot expected goals minus goals allowed stats are fairly average for PL keepers this season (United rank 8th for both according to Fbref)
Expected goals against since LVG took over (from Understat): 39.84, 39.66, 31.62, 43.54, 52.30, 38.06, 41.92, 56.85, 50.29 (Ten Hag) - Fbref's figure is 50.4 for this season.
Open play shots against (from Understat): 253, 270, 248, 335, 355, 268, 320, 364, 318 (Ten Hag)
Penalties conceded (scored): 4(3), 2(2), 5(4), 1(1), 6(6), 3(3), 4(4), 5(3), 3(2) (Ten Hag)
Goals against from corners (expected): 7(6.15), 4(6.99), 3(3.60), 5(8.46), 8(7.62), 9(6.13), 9(5.29), 4(7.63), 6(9.44)
Shots against from inside 6 yard box: 35, 26, 25, 32, 41, 30, 35, 38, 57 (Ten Hag)
Shots against from inside penalty area but not 6 yard box: 213, 240, 167, 229, 242, 209, 239, 287, 264 (Ten Hag)
In simple terms, we conceded far too many shots from dangerous positions and got away with it, though unlike Mourinho's 2nd season, it wasn't due to De Gea making incredible saves, as both his save percentage and his post shot expected goals minus goals allowed stats are fairly average for PL keepers this season (United rank 8th for both according to Fbref)
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