Our Forwards - Do we have enough goals?

Strelok

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I understand what you're saying and in time he'll probably be forgiven if he turns himself around. However, it's a long road to redemption.

Your pastor probably didn't become a pastor 6 months after what he did. Where are you from, out of interest? I'm guessing somewhere in the US.
Yeah agreed about the long part, it won't be easy at all. Anyway I came across many posters here and what they said about him imo sometime is a bit too harsh like they'll never give him another chance despite the lad is only 20 yo.

For your question no I'm from Vietnam. Not every time a pastor, ex convict, drug dealer and shooting automatically means the US mate :lol:
 

Chairman Woodie

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I doubt United will match Man City or Liverpool.

But I do think Ten Hag will get the best out of the forwards, if pre-season is any measure. A new Anthony Martial and the best of Jadon Sancho will certainly help. Also Rashford getting some rest and a pre-season will hopefully pay off.

I'll be watching to see what benefits Benni McCarthy brings as a coach too.
 

el3mel

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No, if we enter next season depending on Martial scoring goals, then no hope for next season.

I think Ronaldo will end up staying though.
 

rpitroda

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Our depth is OK in terms of numbers, but not quality. I don’t think we need to add bodies for the sake of it, what we really need at least one quality striker I feel.
 

foolsgold

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As many as the teams around us? Doubtful but probably more than last year.

Combined with a hopefully tighter defence a fewer let in, it might be enough. I don't think this year is going to be pretty, but I'd settle for a lot of 1-0 wins.
 

pocco

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Yeah agreed about the long part, it won't be easy at all. Anyway I came across many posters here and what they said about him imo sometime is a bit too harsh like they'll never give him another chance despite the lad is only 20 yo.

For your question no I'm from Vietnam. Not every time a pastor, ex convict, drug dealer and shooting automatically means the US mate :lol:
:lol: US seemed a likely choice with that sort of crazy story! Drug dealer, guns people down, then becomes a pastor. I feel like I've seen that movie 100 times.

To be honest, I actually thought pastor was an American term for priest.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have more senior CBs at the club (currently 7) then we do players for our four most attacking positions on the pitch (6... 7 if you count Elanga as senior, which I don't).

If we get a couple of injuries at the top of the pitch we're fecked.
 

NicolaSacco

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have more senior CBs at the club (currently 7) then we do players for our four most attacking positions on the pitch (6... 7 if you count Elanga as senior, which I don't).

If we get a couple of injuries at the top of the pitch we're fecked.
I don’t think it’s even about injuries up front per se, it’s about current very well paid players who simply haven’t returned the kind of numbers that are expected. It’s easy to point to individual seasons where players like Martial and Rashford have scored 20+ in all comps, but they are very much the minority. You could have Martial, Rashford, Ronaldo and Elanga fit all season but if 2 or 3 of those players produce the same numbers they’ve recently done then fitness isn’t a huge factor.
 

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I think there's the potential for goals if they all stay in form, absolutely.

The odds of enough of them staying in form, based on prior history, are something I'm not so convinced with. However, perhaps if we do sign de Jong and with Eriksen already in, it's possible the supply will also improve. And let's not forget, it's a new manager with a proven track record at Ajax. We also don't have to deal with Pogba's nonsense this season. I think these things could help us out a lot. I'm basically "not convinced but still optimistic" given the change in management and the removal of arguably the most toxic player in our squad over the past few years both on and off the pitch. The mental change by removing him from the picture could prove to be the best business we managed this window, even if we supposedly tried to keep him.
 

skc_18

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If Ronaldo stays, I think yes. But we also need at-least two of Bruno, Martial , Rashford find their best form.
 

Strelok

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:lol: US seemed a likely choice with that sort of crazy story! Drug dealer, guns people down, then becomes a pastor. I feel like I've seen that movie 100 times.

To be honest, I actually thought pastor was an American term for priest.
Yeah true :D

I think it's because many ex convicts actually found redemption and peace in religion and helping people. Some becomes a priest, a pastor some becomes a monk etc. Their stories are often very amazing.

I'm no expert either but imo a priest belongs to the Catholic Church while a pastor does not.
 

Dirty Schwein

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If Eriksen and Bruno can keep providing, then there's no reason the goals can't be spread between Rashy, Martial, Sancho and Ronaldo.

That's some serious fire power and on paper they should be getting at least double digits each.
 

Desert Eagle

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If Eriksen and Bruno can keep providing, then there's no reason the goals can't be spread between Rashy, Martial, Sancho and Ronaldo.

That's some serious fire power and on paper they should be getting at least double digits each.
Even if they all get double digits that's just 40 goals. Lets say Ronaldo gets 20 and someone else 15 that's still 55 goals. Nowhere near enough. We'd need at least 20 goals from the rest of the team to be competitive.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Wasn’t it not long ago the trio of Martial, Rashford and greenwood has scored more goals than Salah, Mane,Firminho? Martial and Rashford have goals in them but our team has been so crap that chances were often very poor or nonexistent, along with them playing terribly.
 

Dirty Schwein

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Even if they all get double digits that's just 40 goals. Lets say Ronaldo gets 20 and someone else 15 that's still 55 goals. Nowhere near enough. We'd need at least 20 goals from the rest of the team to be competitive.
We'll of course need the rest of the team to chip in and share the load. But if you look at Liverpool last season, Salah got 23, Mane got 16, Jota 15 and the rest were spread around.

I can't imagine any of our current lot getting 23 but Ronaldo can get close to 20 and if a couple get around the 15 mark and the rest of the team chip in the rest... it would be ok? Obviously, that's easier said than done but our teams have enough quality attackers who should be able to get high double digits as they have done it in the past so we know it's possible.
 

Desert Eagle

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We'll of course need the rest of the team to chip in and share the load. But if you look at Liverpool last season, Salah got 23, Mane got 16, Jota 15 and the rest were spread around.

I can't imagine any of our current lot getting 23 but Ronaldo can get close to 20 and if a couple get around the 15 mark and the rest of the team chip in the rest... it would be ok? Obviously, that's easier said than done but our teams have enough quality attackers who should be able to get high double digits as they have done it in the past so we know it's possible.
Liverpool scored 94 in the league last season so removing those three that's still 40 goals for the rest of the team. We're clearly not at that level yet.

We need to factor in that with a new, more intensive playstyle and the weird schedule cause of Qatar, we will be dealing with more fitness and injury issues probably. We also need to be prepared for Ronaldo to have a drop off year because of multiple factors.(play less, older, discontent)

Lets say we get 15 goals between all the defenders and midfielders. That means we need 50 plus from our forwards just to reach seventy. Like you said Liverpool last season got 50 plus from their main three so lets say we get around 40 . That's 55 goals , very similar to our tally from last year( our worst goal scoring season in the pl)

We need an x factor to step up, whether it be Maguire learning how to direct headers or Eriksen being incredible from set pieces, or Amad/Garnacho somehow chipping in with a bunch of goals.
 

mitchmouse

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Short answer: no. Longer answer: no, we need to buy a proven centre forward
 

Dirty Schwein

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Liverpool scored 94 in the league last season so removing those three that's still 40 goals for the rest of the team. We're clearly not at that level yet.

We need to factor in that with a new, more intensive playstyle and the weird schedule cause of Qatar, we will be dealing with more fitness and injury issues probably. We also need to be prepared for Ronaldo to have a drop off year because of multiple factors.(play less, older, discontent)

Lets say we get 15 goals between all the defenders and midfielders. That means we need 50 plus from our forwards just to reach seventy. Like you said Liverpool last season got 50 plus from their main three so lets say we get around 40 . That's 55 goals , very similar to our tally from last year( our worst goal scoring season in the pl)

We need an x factor to step up, whether it be Maguire learning how to direct headers or Eriksen being incredible from set pieces, or Amad/Garnacho somehow chipping in with a bunch of goals.
Yeah that's a good point to be fair. Not sure what the answer is though. I guess it's overall attacking tactics rather than a single player... not many 20+ goal strikers out there that we can get so we need to think better tactically... maybe the answer at this stage is moer about not letting in as many goals.
 

Skills

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Liverpool scored 94 in the league last season so removing those three that's still 40 goals for the rest of the team. We're clearly not at that level yet.

We need to factor in that with a new, more intensive playstyle and the weird schedule cause of Qatar, we will be dealing with more fitness and injury issues probably. We also need to be prepared for Ronaldo to have a drop off year because of multiple factors.(play less, older, discontent)

Lets say we get 15 goals between all the defenders and midfielders. That means we need 50 plus from our forwards just to reach seventy. Like you said Liverpool last season got 50 plus from their main three so lets say we get around 40 . That's 55 goals , very similar to our tally from last year( our worst goal scoring season in the pl)

We need an x factor to step up, whether it be Maguire learning how to direct headers or Eriksen being incredible from set pieces, or Amad/Garnacho somehow chipping in with a bunch of goals.
Does that include Bruno Fernandes? :confused:

Bruno had an awful season yet managed 10 last season. He should be getting close to 15 himself. I'd say our midfield needs to be contributing circa 25 goals - 15 from Bruno, and another 10 from the combined totals of everyone else. Rodri managed 7 last season and he's City's most defensive midfielder - so I don't think it's too much asking for Eriksen, Fred, McTominay + whoever else to be combining for 10 goals between them.

Where we do need work is goals from the back. Our goal contributions from our defenders is genuinely so poor that we may as well never send a man up for corners. The back line needs to contribute a solid 7-10 goals
 

wolvored

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We managed a whopping 57 goals in the league last season and the only thing that has changed is that we lost Cavani...and Greenwood I guess.

So no, going into this season our attack looks pathetic and I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't score 60 goals this season either. We are in trouble.
This. Our attack is weaker and Rashford and Martial have never scored 20 in a season. If we dont get De jong and rely on Mcfred to be the supply, then we really are screwed. We may also have an unhappy Ronaldo if he doesnt get his move and that could impact his total.
We need more bodies upfront and I think at least one will come in. Whether that will make a difference...
 

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We need a real quality striker who will get us 20/25 goals a season. Next Haaland.
 

Desert Eagle

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Does that include Bruno Fernandes? :confused:

Bruno had an awful season yet managed 10 last season. He should be getting close to 15 himself. I'd say our midfield needs to be contributing circa 25 goals - 15 from Bruno, and another 10 from the combined totals of everyone else. Rodri managed 7 last season and he's City's most defensive midfielder - so I don't think it's too much asking for Eriksen, Fred, McTominay + whoever else to be combining for 10 goals between them.

Where we do need work is goals from the back. Our goal contributions from our defenders is genuinely so poor that we may as well never send a man up for corners. The back line needs to contribute a solid 7-10 goals
I don't think Bruno hits 15 league goals ever again unless he's on pens. Fred and Mctom's best ever goalscoring seasons netted them a whopping 4 goals in the league. If we go through them one by one I'd say this is the probable range of goals for them:

Bruno: 8-12
Eriksen: 3-6
Mctom: 2-4
Fred: 1-3
Defenders: 4-8

So you're right 15 is on the low side, probably around 20 goals from that bunch. If we can get 30 that would be great and I'd be more confident our attacking players would have more goals too.
 

Lemon Moon

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Although I think we'll get more goals from midfield this season than last although I don't believe there are many goals to be had by our attackers (not including Ronaldo)
If Ronaldo stays I think our midfield will score less than if he leaves.
We need an additional centre forward either way & not someone over the hill like previous appointments.
 

mitchmouse

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Does that include Bruno Fernandes? :confused:

Bruno had an awful season yet managed 10 last season. He should be getting close to 15 himself. I'd say our midfield needs to be contributing circa 25 goals - 15 from Bruno, and another 10 from the combined totals of everyone else. Rodri managed 7 last season and he's City's most defensive midfielder - so I don't think it's too much asking for Eriksen, Fred, McTominay + whoever else to be combining for 10 goals between them.

Where we do need work is goals from the back. Our goal contributions from our defenders is genuinely so poor that we may as well never send a man up for corners. The back line needs to contribute a solid 7-10 goals
I agree about the defence. Back in the day Bruce added goals. Rio didn't get many but Irwin chipped in with a few (mostly penalties, to be fair). Ronny Johnsen got the ocassional important one. But all threatened to score and so had to be marked. Maguire can barely get an attacking header on target
 

Bestofthebest

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If Martial, Sancho and Rashford get thirty goals between them this season I will be gob-smacked. I think the heavy lifting will have to be done by Bruno and Eriksen, as scorers and creators, and we definitely need a greater input from the defence from set pieces. Depending how much influence CR7 has will be the biggest factor in our goals total.
 

mitchmouse

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If Martial, Sancho and Rashford get thirty goals between them this season I will be gob-smacked. I think the heavy lifting will have to be done by Bruno and Eriksen, as scorers and creators, and we definitely need a greater input from the defence from set pieces. Depending how much influence CR7 has will be the biggest factor in our goals total.
I'd be surprised if those three managed 20...
 

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I think we’ll create a ton of chances with eriksen and Bruno but wether the forwards finish them or not is a different matter. We’re guilty of missing so many easy chances down the years.. I think the goals will come if they can all execute the system ten Hag will play… I also think we’ll get a few more goals from midfield this season with Bruno and eriksen being goal scoring midfielders. We definitely need more depth though, don’t see anyone who can come of the bench to change a game with the current squad we have at the minute/ the 2 main priorities this window should of been attack and midfield so what do we do, sign a LB and and CB first :lol:
 

DJ_21

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I'd be surprised if those three managed 20...
Think a fully fit and on form martial can hit 15+ , sancho will probably chip in a lot aswell this season as will rashford. we’re gonna create chance after chance this season. It’s down to the forwards to finish them of.
 

mitchmouse

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I think we’ll create a ton of chances with eriksen and Bruno but wether the forwards finish them or not is a different matter. We’re guilty of missing so many easy chances down the years.. I think the goals will come if they can all execute the system ten Hag will play… I also think we’ll get a few more goals from midfield this season with Bruno and eriksen being goal scoring midfielders. We definitely need more depth though, don’t see anyone who can come of the bench to change a game with the current squad we have at the minute/ the 2 main priorities this window should of been attack and midfield so what do we do, sign a LB and and CB first :lol:
Last season our bench was one of the weakest in the PL, in my opinion. Not a single person there who could change a game (well, I suppose a happy Cavani could have)
 

mitchmouse

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Think a fully fit and on form martial can hit 15+ , sancho will probably chip in a lot aswell this season as will rashford. we’re gonna create chance after chance this season. It’s down to the forwards to finish them of.
I don't see Martial hitting double figures in the PL
 

Skills

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I think we’ll create a ton of chances with eriksen and Bruno but wether the forwards finish them or not is a different matter. We’re guilty of missing so many easy chances down the years.. I think the goals will come if they can all execute the system ten Hag will play… I also think we’ll get a few more goals from midfield this season with Bruno and eriksen being goal scoring midfielders. We definitely need more depth though, don’t see anyone who can come of the bench to change a game with the current squad we have at the minute/ the 2 main priorities this window should of been attack and midfield so what do we do, sign a LB and and CB first :lol:
Are we? Generally the underlying numbers have indicated we over perform relative to the quality of chances we produce.
 

troylocker

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We could allways need more goals, but we have plenty of goals in our attacking options in this squad.

In the 19/20 season Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno scored 75 goals between them.
In the 20/21 season Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno and Cavani scored 85 goals between them.
In the 21/22 season Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Cavani, Martial, Sancho and Elanga scored 55 goals between them..... The guys who scored 75 and 85 goals the seasons before suddenly managed only 24 goals between them.....I wonder why.

Get Ronaldo out and this team will score bucketloads again.
 
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We could allways need more goals, but we have plenty of goals in our attacking options in this squad.

In the 19/20 season Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Bruno scored 75 goals between them.
In the 20/21 season Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno and Cavani scored 85 goals between them.
In the 21/22 season Ronaldo, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Cavani, Martial, Sancho and Elanga scored 55 goals between them..... The guys who scored 75 and 85 goals the seasons before suddenly managed only 24 goals between them.....I wonder why.

.................
its called downing tools last season. Up and down the entire squad not just the forwards and bruno
 

troylocker

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its called downing tools last season. Up and down the entire squad not just the forwards and bruno
Let's do the same with Juventus?

In the 16/17 season Higuain, Mandzukic, Dybala, Bernadeschi, Khedira and Quadrado scored 84 goals between them (52 goals from non-Higuain players).
In the 17/18 season Higuain, Mandzukic, Dybala, Bernadeschi, Khedira, Quadrado, Costa and Kean scored 88 goals between them (65 goals from non-Higuain players)
In the 18/19 season (Higuain out - Ronaldo in) Ronaldo, Mandzukic, Dybala, Bernadeschi, Khedira, Quadrado, Costa and Kean scored 61 goals between them (33 goals from non-Ronaldo players)
In the 19/20 season (Higuain back in, Mandzukic out), Ronaldo, Higuain, Dybala, Bernadeschi, Khedira, Quadrado and Costa scored 72 goals between them (35 goals from Non-Ronaldo players)
In the 20/21 season (Higuain out, Morata in) ..... the story continues.

The dynamics in Juve and Man United changed so drastically with the enterance of Ronaldo that it cannot be overlooked. It's impossible to get around the obvious here, even if it involves your hero being the main cause of the massive dropoff in output for the team. The offensive focus on feeding Ronaldo and covering for him defensively completely strangles the team.
 
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Let do the same with Juventus?
Sorry I'm NOT having That discussion EVER again!. If you a willing to believe the likes of Wan Bissaka, Maguire and Shaw, to name just 3, who had seasons just as bad as the front men and Bruno, that ruined our season as a result, was strictly down to cr7, rather than obvious attitude issues, downing of tools in the entire squad and loss of form in one or two cases. Be my guest
 

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It's the back up that I worry about. If Rashford, Martial and Sancho have really good seasons, then they could easily get 15-20 league goals between them.

However, going from those three to Elanga, Amad, Garnacho, Pellistri, etc is worrying. That's no disrespect to them, but the drop off in talent and experience is vast.

Assuming Ronaldo stays, we need a winger who will get us at least 10 league goals. A shrewd signing like when Liverpool signed Jota would be nice.