Our fresh batch of deadwood

amolbhatia50k

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Managing a squad and maintaining its quality is highly important for any club to be successful. Having been critical of Oles tactics before he's manages the actual squad well.

Lukaku people can debate over as he's still a quality CF but the likes of
Young
Sanchez
Lingard
Smalling
Pereira

We've done well to move on the above lot.

Having said we still have Mata and Jones who don't seem to really have a place in this team. And personally I see the following too who need to be looked at
James (she's shit)
Williams (regressed completely)
And now VDB (Liam Miller 2.0)

Of course I see an argument that players being given time but I also think smart clubs catch these situations and nip them in the bud. Sitting here two years from now wondering what the feck to do with James/Williams/VDB will be a collosal waste time and space in the squad.

Depressing thread but which players would you act on fast to avoid the same cycle repeating itself? For me the three I mentioned are looking like red flag.s
 

andy0

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These people have careers, either at United or elsewhere, and I'm not willing to call any of them deadwood

Even Ferguson speculatively signed players who didn't all work out as brilliantly as the best, but still did well enough elsewhere, though there are some we didn't hear much about.
 

Rozay

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Managing a squad and maintaining its quality is highly important for any club to be successful. Having been critical of Oles tactics before he's manages the actual squad well.

Lukaku people can debate over as he's still a quality CF but the likes of
Young
Sanchez
Lingard
Smalling
Pereira

We've done well to move on the above lot.

Having said we still have Mata and Jones who don't seem to really have a place in this team. And personally I see the following too who need to be looked at
James (she's shit)
Williams (regressed completely)
And now VDB (Liam Miller 2.0)

Of course I see an argument that players being given time but I also think smart clubs catch these situations and nip them in the bud. Sitting here two years from now wondering what the feck to do with James/Williams/VDB will be a collosal waste time and space in the squad.

Depressing thread but which players would you act on fast to avoid the same cycle repeating itself? For me the three I mentioned are looking like red flag.s
Dan James is a bloke.
 

RedSky

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Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
Phil Jones
 

El Presidente

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Pereira and Lingard are still Man Utd players btw.
Also, i see Mata brought up in these conversations a lot lately, when in fact, his contract expires in like 3 weeks.

Williams will probably be loaned out and I'm fine with VDB, as long as Ole actually trusts him. Otherwise, obviously he should be moved on.

James is shit, yeah.

Edit: Also, special mention to Chong, who is hopeless and couldn't land a place in a relegation squad. Didn't we bump his wages last year?
 

gajender

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Not Good Enough
James
Williams
Van De Beek
Tuanzebe
Bailly* unecessary contract Jones all over again.
Jones

Over the Hill

Mata
Matic

Apart from above mentioned we have some players on loan excluding youngsters who should not be in United's squad next season .

Then we have conundrum of DeGea and Martial and how to deal with them .

All in all plenty of fat which needs to be trimmed once the summer window opens.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Pereira and Lingard are still Man Utd players btw.
Also, i see Mata brought up in these conversations a lot lately, when in fact, his contract expires in like 3 weeks.

Williams will probably be loaned out and I'm fine with VDB, as long as Ole actually trusts him. Otherwise, obviously he should be moved on.

James is shit, yeah.
I do hope Ole trusts VDB. I just hope we don't hang on to him as he's the nice fellow from Ajax we signed for a decent chunk of money (pandemic time) and we give everyone time. Literally everyone.
 

AltiUn

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Pereira and Lingard are still Man Utd players btw.
Also, i see Mata brought up in these conversations a lot lately, when in fact, his contract expires in like 3 weeks.

Williams will probably be loaned out and I'm fine with VDB, as long as Ole actually trusts him. Otherwise, obviously he should be moved on.

James is shit, yeah.
I'd be surprised if either Pereira or Lingard were here beyond the summer. As for everything else you're spot on really. I really can't see anyway we keep Williams at the club. No idea what we're going to do with James, we didn't need him this year and if we sign someone like Sancho we certainly won't need him next year, we should cash in.
 

Mickson

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We can move on deadwood, but there will always be new deadwood at this badly run club.

Deadwood now: Jones, Pereira, Romero, Mata, Matic, Lingard
Deadwood in a season or two: Bailly, James
 

AltiUn

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We can move on deadwood, but there will always be new deadwood at this badly run club.

Deadwood now: Jones, Pereira, Romero, Mata, Matic, Lingard
Deadwood in a season or two: Bailly, James
Still in disbelief that Bailly got a renewal.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Wait what about Telles?

I feel our two backup fullbacks - Telles and Williams are such a massive drop off in quality. Telles is barely serviceable at this level but okay I guess. Williams let's be honest has been crap for quite awhile.

Ideally we should have that one extra fullback who gives us thrust and dynamism.
 

Raoul

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Instead of looking at it as "deadwood" (the pessimistic view), we should be looking at it from a squad depth perspective. As in, which players should be retained to build a better and deeper squad capable of attacking all the competitions. Every great team has reliable squad players who can come situationally and do a job for the manager.
 

Bwuk

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I think we need to have a think about our squad, identify areas of weakness and ensure we have correct pathways for our talented youngsters.

I think we should sell/release the following; De Gea, Romero, Joel Pereira, Phil Jones, Diogo Dalot, Mata, Lingard, Andreas Pereira, James, Martial and Chong.

This would leave us with

Goalkeepers
Henderson, Grant, Bishop

Defenders
Lindelof, Bailly, Maguire, Shaw, Telles, AWB, Williams, Tuanzebe, Mengi, Laird

Midfielders
Pogba, Fred, Bruno, Matic, VdB, Garner, McTominay, Hannibal, Levitt

Attackers
Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Amad, Pellistri, Shoretire, Elanga

We benefit from the fact quite a few of our players are positionally flexible. However, a lot of these players are young and could do with loans.

I would look to find loans for the following;

Brandon Williams - He needs regular game time if he's going to make it here. Another season like this season doesn't benefit him whatsoever. He's contracted to 2024, I'd look to find him a loan to a premier league side who play progressive football, such as Brighton or Norwich then reassess his situation the season after.

Ethan Laird - By all accounts he did great at MK Dons this season. We should look to get him a loan in the Championship for another progressive, attacking side.

Teden Mengi - Still young. Did ok at Derby by all accounts, but could do with a full season in the Championship to get game time. He won't play if he stays here.

Dylan Levitt - The move to Croatia was odd. Charlton wasn't a good loan. I think there's a good player there, but he needs a good loan. He'll be 21 next season so really needs a good loan if he's to make it here. Nottingham Forrest as a replacement for Garner could be a good move for him.

Facundo Pellistri - I think he needs to play in Britain to get used to the style of football here. I actually think Celtic could be a good move for him on loan, especially if Eddie Howe takes over.

Anthony Elanga - Didn't quite look ready vs Leicester. I think he could go to the Championship, but again the style of player he is I wouldn't be against him going somewhere like Celtic to play regularly. I think the key is getting game time wherever he goes.

This reduces the squad size a lot.

Goalkeepers
Henderson, Grant, Bishop

Defenders
Lindelof, Bailly, Maguire, Shaw, Telles, AWB, Tuanzebe

Midfielders
Pogba, Fred, Bruno, Matic, VdB, Garner, McTominay, Hannibal

Attackers
Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Amad, Shoretire.

That's a squad of 23. I think Shoretire is still too young and could probably have a similarish role to what he's had this season, some game time with the u23s, and some experience with the senior side. I wouldn't send him on loan due to his age.

I think that squad lacks an experienced and reliable backup to Henderson, a back up right back for AWB, a proper #6 (who if we signed we could look to probably move on VdB or Matic and a RW.

Sam Johnstone has been linked, I think that would be a good move for us. Knows the club, wouldn't cost much, and likely would be happy to deputise for Henderson.

Kieran Trippier would be a good right back option. Can rotate in with AWB and at 30 is at an age where he wouldn't block the progression too much of younger full backs we have either on loan or in the academy.

Jadon Sancho has been linked for years and would be the ideal option to play across the front. Get it done.

Declan Rice I think he'd be the smartest move we can make this summer. We seen how good Matic was as an actual #6. McTominay nor Fred can play that position and it's a glaring weakness in the squad.

We have too many CB options to sign a new CB unless we sold Tuanzebe, as Lindelof nor Maguire are going anywhere, and we just renewed Bailly.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Instead of looking at it as "deadwood" (the pessimistic view), we should be looking at it from a squad depth perspective. As in, which players should be retained to build a better and deeper squad capable of attacking all the competitions. Every great has reliable squad players who can come situationally and do a job for the manager.
I mean it in the same way. There's a point you go from squad player being a reliable servant to "feck why is he still at the club ". The best clubs know when to flick the switch. It has to be rurhtless but that's how you don't end up with 7-8 feck no players at the club

For example there's so many who keep saying "Dan James as a squad player is fine/he has pace against tiring legs". And then they wonder why we don't have a squad to win big titles. Mctominay is the kin d of attitude player we want not James. There's a difference. Instead we pretend our park and fletchers are Roy and we should accomodate even worse players as backup
 

Skills

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Wait what about Telles?

I feel our two backup fullbacks - Telles and Williams are such a massive drop off in quality. Telles is barely serviceable at this level but okay I guess. Williams let's be honest has been crap for quite awhile.

Ideally we should have that one extra fullback who gives us thrust and dynamism.
I think that's harsh on Telles. He's joined a new team, new league and he's barely got a look in because Shaw's having the season of a lifetime.

I think he's an adequate back up and hopefully he'll play a bigger role next season, when we have to start managing Shaw's workload.
 

Bebestation

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Feels like a complaining thread because there's not much on TV at the moment.

Brandon Williams is a youth player that may or may not be good enough. Who cares, he didnt cost us anything.

Daniel James even if he is shit is hardly deadwood because he is one of the fastest players in the world and can be a hard player to play against even as a sub even though he consistently makes the wrong decision. There is interest in him, yet he is has his uses as a player that doesnt complain about playing the occasional game even when he isnt on our subs bench most of the time.

VDB - not sure about him. Very specific player with his flicks and dummies at the edges of the box . Either Ole knows his plans for him (as a false 9/shadow striker) or he was a player being forced in to Ole's squad by the board.

Bailly & Tuenzebe - Will be gone soon when the next CB comes.


I dont think we have that many deadwood anymore not anymore than the other teams either.
 

AltiUn

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He did!? Now Tuanzebe is deadwood then :lol: no club with Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe is winning big trophies. No chance.
I think everyone knows we need a CB, by all accounts we're attempting to sign one in summer anyway so not really that fussed.
 

El Presidente

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I'd be surprised if either Pereira or Lingard were here beyond the summer. As for everything else you're spot on really. I really can't see anyway we keep Williams at the club. No idea what we're going to do with James, we didn't need him this year and if we sign someone like Sancho we certainly won't need him next year, we should cash in.
If the coaching staff are prepared to entrust Amad with 15-ish games next season, than I'd say James becomes redundant. Strangely, he has his suitors, so hopefully, we'll listen to offers.
As for Pereira - we need to lower our expectations really, really low in terms of the asking price. I'm talking Black Friday prices.
 

charlenefan

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We can move on deadwood, but there will always be new deadwood at this badly run club.

Deadwood now: Jones, Pereira, Romero, Mata, Matic, Lingard
Deadwood in a season or two: Bailly, James
Deadwood doesn't have to be because things have been run badly, squads naturally evolve, the quality improves, players regress, get older etc etc
 

Raoul

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I mean it in the same way. There's a point you go from squad player being a reliable servant to "feck why is he still at the club ". The best clubs know when to flick the switch. It has to be rurhtless but that's how you don't end up with 7-8 feck no players at the club
Agreed. Its time to clear players who never play or are constantly injured out for some fresh talent. James, Perreira, Lingard, Jones, Mata would be the ideal candidates to move on. Williams probably needs a loan move to continue his development. VdB should continue here as his best is yet to come.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Feels like a complaining thread because there's not much on TV at the moment.

Brandon Williams is a youth player that may or may not be good enough. Who cares, he didnt cost us anything.

Daniel James even if he is shit is hardly deadwood because he is one of the fastest players in the world and can be a hard player to play against even as a sub even though he consistently makes the wrong decision. There is interest in him, yet he is has his uses as a player that doesnt complain about playing the occasional game even when he isnt on our subs bench most of the time.


VDB - not sure about him. Very specific player with his flicks and dummies at the edges of the box . Either Ole knows his plans for him (as a false 9/shadow striker) or he was a player being forced in to Ole's squad by the board.

Bailly & Tuenzebe - Will be gone soon when the next CB comes.


I dont think we have that many deadwood anymore not anymore than the other teams either.
Wait if Brandon Williams not costing much is everything who is our backup RB next year? Is that a place that doesn't matter?

And on James who cares if he's quick. He does feck all with it?
 

V.O.

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You can't have Williams as deadwood without including the countless youth setup products who aren't going to make it at United that are moved on every year.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Agreed. Its time to clear players who never play or are constantly injured out for some fresh talent. James, Perreira, Lingard, Jones, Mata would be the ideal candidates to move on. Williams probably needs a loan move to continue his development. VdB should continue here as his best is yet to come.
I'll be honest. I'm most worried about VDB. He has just enough pedigree for people to have faith in him. And his performances have been a bit of a joke. Looks like he's come from two divisions down.
 

stubie

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Our deadwood has massively reduced in the last 2 years and will continue to be reduced this summer to the point where there will be barely any deadwood left.

We finally have seemed to get our act together in terms of the youth structure to enable us to develop more talented youngsters.
 

amolbhatia50k

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You can't have Williams as deadwood without including the countless youth setup products who aren't going to make it at United that are moved on every year.
I'm just foreseeing a potential problem. If not him then we need another backup RB for next year
 

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Every squad in the world has 'deadwood'. The difference now is they're young(William/James/vdb), on short term contracts(Mata) or have a decent enough reputation(vdb).

Our squad is being managed well.
 

Oranges038

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Wait what about Telles?

I feel our two backup fullbacks - Telles and Williams are such a massive drop off in quality. Telles is barely serviceable at this level but okay I guess. Williams let's be honest has been crap for quite awhile.

Ideally we should have that one extra fullback who gives us thrust and dynamism.

I think you just need a Phil Neville/ O'Shea type who can slot in on either side and do the job for a game every now and then or come in as a replacement for 15-20 mins for fresh legs. I though Williams might have been that, but he's not shown a whole lot of promise lately. Telles has been poor nearly every time he's played, his defensive positioning is awful.
 

peridigm

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Hindsight is 20/20 but I'd rather we kept Lukaku than Martial.

Deadwood S6: Manchester United Edition
Starring Anthony Martial, Phil Jones, Andreas Pereira, Sergio Romero, Juan Mata, Nemanja Matic, and Jesse Lingard
Guest appearances by Eric Bailly, Daniel James

Will Jesse Lingard work his way back into Camp Deadwood for a 6th and final season? Will the boss finally give up on Phil Jones and Anthony Martial? Does Eric Bailly have what it takes to be a mainstay or will he also succumb to Deadwood's fateful grip of injury plagued and inconsistent characters.

Tune it to find out.
 

AltiUn

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Every squad in the world has 'deadwood'. The difference now is they're young(William/James/vdb), on short term contracts(Mata) or have a decent enough reputation(vdb).

Our squad is being managed well.
Also worth mentioning that we used to feel the impact of deadwood a hell of a lot more because half of them used to be in our starting line up, whereas now they barely get on the pitch.
 

Bebestation

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Wait if Brandon Williams not costing much is everything who is our backup RB next year? Is that a place that doesn't matter?

And on James who cares if he's quick. He does feck all with it?
@V.O. said it - if Williams is deadwood then every single youth player that doesnt make it here is dead wood isnt it?

Our back up or competition to Wan Bissaka will be Trippier in my opinion because Ole values experience and we tried to go for him this transfer window but had problems with some sort of ban. either we go for him again or we give Laird a chance.


I find James a very annoying player, but he is just a gamble that just didnt work. He remind me of mata in the way that you see him play a game every 3 months and if he is happy to have a career like that at United then I dont think he is that bad of a player. I doubt he would be happy to have a career where he play a game ever once every 3 months so I can see him moving to Leeds or somewhere else and us getting £10 million back or even more.