Our recent record in the UCL

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by charlenefan, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Mar 14, 2018
    #1

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,084
    Off the back of Jose's post match comments last night it got me thinking about our recent record in the UCL since the Wembley final in 2011

    Season 11/12
    Manager Sir Alex Ferguson
    Exit Group Stage (Benfica/Basel)

    Season 12/13
    Manager Sir Alex Ferguson
    Exit Last 16 (Real Madrid)

    Season 13/14
    Manager David Moyes
    Exit Quarter Finals (Bayern Munich)

    Season 15/16
    Manager Louis Van Gaal
    Exit Group Stage (Wolfsburg/PSV)

    Season 17/18
    Manager Jose Mourinho
    Exit Last 16 (Seville)

    So albeit we've missed the competition altogether twice in the last 7 years only David Moyes has got us further than the last 16 and it's worth remembering that we only got into the quarter finals that year by overturning a 2-0 first leg defeat to Olympiakos. Also worth noting that a lot of our current players have been ever present throughout those early exits (De Gea, Smalling & Young initially, then the likes of Mata and Fellaini)

    No agenda behind this post just something that occurred to me last night
  2. Mar 14, 2018
    #2

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    11,971
    That just makes me feel sorry for De Gea :(.
  3. Mar 14, 2018
    #3

    Judas Open to offers

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    10,320
    Location:
    Where the grass is greener.
    Since Fergie, I'd say this is the first time I'm disappointed and genuinely expected better, and I just mean get into the QF and hope for a nice draw, that's the least we could have hoped for.

    Moyes did very well on spirit alone, something we lacked greatly last night.
  4. Mar 14, 2018
    #4

    abdo99 Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,437
    If the move to Madrid had gone through he'd be a back to back CL winner by now. I'm not sure how much longer he can persist with this mediocrity year in year out. This is someone who deserves to be fighting for the biggest honours.
  5. Mar 14, 2018
    #5

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Messages:
    18,309
    That's very poor record.
  6. Mar 14, 2018
    #6

    haram Full Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Messages:
    11,971
    1st leg vs Bayern was not bad. Didn’t Buttner start that night as well :lol:
  7. Mar 14, 2018
    #7

    GuyfromAustria Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    194
    You lot have to realise sooner or later how we are seen on the continent nowadays...it's not pretty.
  8. Mar 14, 2018
    #8

    #07 makes new threads with tweets in the OP

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    16,877
    Utterly abysmal. Only once since 2011 have we looked like anything in the Champions League, which was the year we got done with the Nani high foot against Mou's Madrid.

    We are steadily declining as a force in European football.
  9. Mar 14, 2018
    #9

    MacabbiUnited Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    187
    Supports:
    Maccabi Tel Aviv - Israel
    Unfortunetly we havnt witnessed true CL football since being knocked out by Bayern.

    Got easy and non-exciting draws last 2 campaigns. We were just sh*t. Would rather get Barcelona in the group stage, finish second and get Real in the last 16 than what actually went down this season in the CL.
  10. Mar 14, 2018
    #10

    fallengt Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,182
    Post Fergie, it Was bizarre that the only one put up a fight was Moyes .

    2nd legs vs Munich wasn't bad until Erva decided to end his United carrier that night
  11. Mar 14, 2018
    #11

    Minimalist New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Messages:
    15,091
    When you realise Moyes did a better job in the CL than Mourinho. feck sake.
  12. Mar 14, 2018
    #12

    Sterling Archer Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    3,479
    Go back further than that and we've been knocked out a fair bit because our tactics were off . It took quite a few painful exists for our greatest manager ever to take a step back and reconsider his philosophy, particularly away from home.

    My point being, everyone take a few days and stop pulling hairs over this. Regroup after the FA Cup. If we don't steam roll into the next round, then get worked up.
  13. Mar 14, 2018
    #13

    El Zoido Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    6,538
    Location:
    UK
    This is a truly dreadful record. I really expected so much more from Jose in the CL. Last night is still unfathomable to me, feel like we’ll still be questioning this in 10 years’ time.
  14. Mar 14, 2018
    #14

    Red Star One Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,469
    Location:
    Lux/Warsaw
    I feel exactly the same about last night. So many years of us being abysmal in the CL, and we all really hoped it has to change this year - favorable draw, so much money spent, Jose has his players. Absolutely fecking embarrassing.
  15. Mar 14, 2018
    #15

    Jed I. Knight The Mos Eisley Hillbilly

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    3,349
    Location:
    Tatooine
    FTFY.

    But yes, you're obviously right. It's embarassing that a club of our means can't compete at that level, and even more embarassing is the way we go about it.
  16. Mar 14, 2018
    #16

    NotATroll New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    140
    This. We went out to Bayer Leverkusen, Porto and, further back Monaco and Dortmund. Ferguson expected to blow teams away just by being naturally better than them and it didn't work. It wasn't until he adopted a more Mourinho-esque style (keep things tight and only win games on 2 or 3 chances) that we started being really good in the competition ('07-'13).

    It was really jolting that people were talking about playing entertaining football too. It's the CL knock-out stage. I remember battering teams at home in the group-stages but the knock-out is all about winning. I'm confused as to why people were talking style (in an aesthetic sense) at this stage of the competition and using it as a stick with which to beat Mourinho.
  17. Mar 14, 2018
    #17

    Kush Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,262
    Good post, I'm very disappointed in the manner we approached the R16 but this is hardly the lowest point for the club in this competition. We've lost to some shite in Fergie years too, being unable to come out of group stages twice as well. This was also at a time when we were a major force in England, something which can't be said for this team.

    Fair point but I think big reason why people are so pissed about yesterday's loss is how we approached the home leg, 0-0 away from home is not an ideal result but not the worst result either provided you go for the throat in the home leg. Under Fergie we used to do that in home games, play with such intensity at the start that the opposition would crumble. Under Mourinho both legs have gone the same way which is why people are more bitten by the loss.
  18. Mar 14, 2018
    #18

    VP Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    11,186
    I'm sick of people shredding Ferguson's legacy to big up Mourinho.

    SAF was pragmatic but more than capable of blowing away the opposition when needed - even in the knockouts. Roma (remember that 7-1?), Arsenal, Schalke, AC Milan, Inter..the list goes on. Our downfall was naivete, bad luck and, with Barca, just a better opposition. Never once did we serve up a performance as feeble and as pathetic as last night.

    With SAF in charge of these players, we'd have won this tie by at least 3 goals - no doubt about that.
  19. Mar 14, 2018
    #19

    Varun Moderator Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    44,291
    Location:
    Mumbai
    There's a difference between being pragmatic and cowardly. We were so scared of conceding a goal vs Sevilla that we didn't even try to score. That'd never happen with Sir Alex.

    This trend of shitting on the great man to defend mourinho really pisses me off. There's a lot rival fans say about Sir Alex but even they wouldn't call him a coward. That's how we approached the Sevilla tie.
  20. Mar 14, 2018
    #20

    2cents Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,899
    Just to put Fergie's CL record, which is certainly underwhelming, in a bit of context.

    From 93-97 we were only establishing ourselves in the competition and finding our feet. Each year showed some progression. In 93/94 we stumbled passed Honved and got knocked out by Galatasaray. It was our first appearance in the competition since 1969 and English football was only just recovering from the post-Heysal ban - Leeds had been knocked out by Rangers the previous year. The following year was the first CL with the groups, and we put on a pretty good performance against Barca at home to draw 2-2 with Paul Parker marking Romario, before they dismantled us 4-0 at the Nou Camp. The other games were forgettable and we went out. Still I think that home performance against Barca was a taste of what was to come. The following season Blackburn were awful in the CL, so it's clear English football was still recovering. Then in 96/97 we went to the Semis and put in our first really iconic CL home performance under Fergie with the 4-0 win over Porto, the type of home performance we would come to expect in the CL in later years.

    97/98 was a reality check and a necessary lesson, as Fergie was quite happy with the 0-0 at Monaco . The 1-1 draw at home was a killer and came in the run-in of a very disappointing season for us. The following season needs no comment.

    It's the 99 - 02 period that is truly disappointing in the CL for me, we definitely should have added to the tally in these years. The problem was that a Keane and Scholes midfield with two centre-forwards ahead of them and a general gung-ho approach left us exposed and overrun in midfield in an era when clubs were moving away from the 4-4-2. Fergie tried to rectify it with the Veron signing but it didn't work. Looking back I often wonder what might have been if we'd had someone like Redondo alongside Keane with Scholes ahead of them in these years.

    Then in the period 03-07 we just weren't good enough really, although who knows what might have happened in 03/04 had that decision against Porto not gone against us.

    I don't have many complaints to make about the 07 - 11 period, we were unlucky in 06/07 and 09/10 but can't complain too much, we won it once and lost two finals to the greatest team of them all. The 11/12 campaign was obviously awful, and the following year were were unlucky again against Real but it's hard to see us winning it against that Bayern team.

    So yes, overall we should have won it at least once more under Fergie, but he was the one who re-established us, and English football in general, as European powers and established a defining approach to CL knockout ties at home.
  21. Mar 14, 2018
    #21

    NotATroll New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    140
    And he was more than capable of giving us boring games e.g. Marseille and games where we screwed up e.g. Porto, Leverkusen etc. And those games you listed - a lot of them were controlled to a certain extent. They weren't games where we went all out and kept attacking until we beat the opposition into submission. We identified and certain way to get at them and did it well but it wasn't like we all over them, sort of like against Liverpool on Saturday. It felt to me as if people thought we'd have wave after wave of attack against Sevilla. High level football isn't like that.
  22. Mar 14, 2018
    #22

    Salus Populi Suprema Lex Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,779
    Location:
    Salford
    In recent years it hasn't been good enough for a supposed elite club. It has to improve, or we will become perennial no hopers, like Arsenal were.
  23. Mar 14, 2018
    #23

    AndyJ1985 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    8,954
    Our performances in the CL reflect the quality of our squad and management. It doesn't surprise me the least bit that we are so far behind the best teams in Europe.
  24. Mar 14, 2018
    #24

    marktan Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2017
    Messages:
    2,359
    I think we're at a similar position to RM in the mid to late 00's, after their win in 2002. The supposed galacticos weren't good enough, and it's only since the early 2010's that they've built an elite team. It didn't happen overnight, it took years, but that's what we should be targetting. Excellency in every position and strong subs. There's no way players like Young (vs Marcelo), Fellaini (vs Casemiro) and even one of our better players in Rashford (vs Asensio/Isco/Vasquez) would get a game for them. Compared to our best side of the last 10 years - the 2008 team, our current team is far behind. That team had genuine quality everywhere.

    Anyhow RM since winning the CL in 2002
    - 02/03 - SF
    - 03/04 - QF
    - 04/05 - R16
    - 05/06 - R16
    - 06/07 - R16
    - 07/08 - R16
    - 08/09 - R16
    - 09/10 - R16
    - 10/11 - SF
    - 11/12 - SF
    - 12/13 - SF
    - 13/14 - Winners + 2 more trophies since
  25. Mar 14, 2018
    #25

    RC89 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,094
    Disagree here, I think it simply reflects on management and performance. Our team and squad is better than Sevilla. We should have got into the quarters.
  26. Mar 14, 2018
    #26

    Minimalist New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    Messages:
    15,091
    Good post.

    Ferguson never played this way. It's just wrong to equate the two. Sure sometimes it was pragmatic and a bit of zombie-ball, we all remember that. But there was still an emphasis on scoring goals and Ferguson could also produce good counter-attacking performances.

    According to the numbers, only 7% (4) of United's goals this season come from counter-attacks as they're deemed. So I'm not really seeing how we're good at it under Mourinho. Liverpool have scored 8 under the same criteria - are they a counter attacking team that sits deep?
  27. Mar 14, 2018
    #27

    AndyJ1985 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    8,954
    I'm talking more in general over the last 5 years rather than specifically about last night. We're supposed to be one of the worlds biggest clubs but the only thing that reflects that is our commercial department. As far as football goes we've been a shambles. Poor managers, poor tactics, poor signings. Unsurprisingly we've struggled to even make it in to the CL, let alone to be competitive in it.
  28. Mar 14, 2018
    #28

    RC89 Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    2,094
    Apologies. Yeah, you're right. Our transfer up until Jose have been abysmal for the most part. Under Jose it's gotten better I think but still nothing to shout about.
  29. Mar 14, 2018
    #29

    Rifer Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    4,201
    Location:
    Losing to Comeback Winning!
    Hire Moyes back. lol

    Interesting OP and good thread.
  30. Mar 14, 2018
    #30

    Rifer Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    4,201
    Location:
    Losing to Comeback Winning!
    Nice. Interesting recent CL history of theirs. RM build on their squad season after season after season. Reaching the top most level doesn't happened straightaway.
  31. Mar 14, 2018
    #31

    Rifer Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    4,201
    Location:
    Losing to Comeback Winning!
    Yeap, it pisses me off. Rubbish approach, rubbish tactics and decisions by Jose, and in return why the f are many of our players seem so scared to attack or something. Both legs (away and home) are horrendous. Never seen SAF's team play with this frightened mentality and approach.
  32. Mar 14, 2018
    #32

    Donnie Brasco New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    Mulberry Street
    It's never been good enough. Not under Fergie, not before him and certainly not after him.

    Our fanbase is deluded we call ourselves the biggest club in the world yet our record in European cups is not good enough. Clubs like Ajax, Liverpool and Inter have more european cups than us.
  33. Mar 14, 2018
    #33

    VP Full Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    11,186
    I'm not saying control is bad; I'd have been thrilled if we controlled the game last night. Are you suggesting we were in control last night?

    No one expected waves of attack but we barely got a ripple.
  34. Mar 14, 2018
    #34

    Yorkeontop Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    4,823
    Location:
    (South Africa).
    We have won the European Cup "only" 3 times. So when you think about it, this is nothing out the ordinary.
  35. Mar 14, 2018
    #35

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,084
    Since when has number of European Trophies been the barometer for a clubs size? Are you suggesting Inter Milan and Ajax are biggest clubs than us? Of course they're not so dont be daft
  36. Mar 14, 2018
    #36

    2cents Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    9,899
    Inter have won it three times, same as us.
  37. Mar 14, 2018
    #37

    NotATroll New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    140
    No, we weren't in control. What I'm saying is that controlled or dour football isn't bad.

    The problem is actually that we weren't in control, not this supposed negative football by Mourinho. They were a typical Spanish side, keeping the ball well and stopping us from attacking. If you look at the first 15 minutes, you can't say that we set out to be negative. What happened is simply they got on the ball and started passing. That's usual for teams that are good in possession: the first 10/15 minutes can be tricky but they end up dominating.

    I'll say it again: the problem wasn't the supposed negative football from the manager. Fans should understand by now the peculiar danger that Spanish sides represent and that when it comes to football (passing/possession) they can dominate any side, whatever their level.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  38. Mar 14, 2018
    #38

    Pogue Mahone Poster of the year 2008

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    99,665
    Location:
    "like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
    They did a bit about De Gea last night and showed a bunch of stats about his United career. Everyone knows how ridiculously busy he's been this season but it was a bit of a surprise to see that he was under a similar amount of pressure in Fergie's last couple of seasons in charge.

    You could definitely argue that some sort of rot set in as Scholes, Giggs, Rio and Vidic started to decline and Van Persie's goals papered over a lot of cracks in Fergie's final season. None of our league rivals were much cop in those two seasons, with CL results that reflect a decline in the PL. Chelsea the only PL team to make it past the round of 16 in either of those seasons (in 2012/13). Moyes and Van Gaal were so inept that they couldn't benefit from this and Mourinho finds himself in the midst of a bit of a PL renaissance.

    Basically, we haven't had a really quality defence/midfield since peak Scholes/Rio/Vidic and that remains a problem to this day. The fact this issue persists despite spending 300m quid should be a sackable offence, for someone. If we had one person overseeing our transfer strategy, that is.

    None of which explains or justifies our diabolical performance last night, mind you.
  39. Mar 14, 2018
    #39

    Bobski Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    3,158
    Yes, many delighted Utd are out, who wants to watch that style at the top end of the most prestigious club competition in the game. Utd used to be one of the biggest draws for TV audiences, not just in the UK, now known as a cure for insomnia.
  40. Mar 14, 2018
    #40

    McGrathsipan Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Messages:
    13,298
    I'd say sharply declined .
    No point in sugar coating it.

    Look any team can win a cup with a bit of luck but United have work to do to get back in the competition as an actual competitor