A fit Augero is nothing short of spectacular.
Our Rivals' squads next year - Manchester City (2016/2017)
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I don't like your choice of names, but I guess that's the whole point. Just get a mod on board now and you're all set; most PL goals wins the day.Im not even a full member yet!
Ill acceot the bet but change the winnings if Ibra scores more I will have my username changed to:
KunDestroysIbra
Vice verse if you lose? So IbraDestroysKun?
Little bit of friendly spice to the season would go down well
Yeah no way he was.
I think Ibra's better than Aguero(mainly because I think Aguero's declined a bit the past year), but there's no chance Ibra was the 3rd best player in the world last season.
Quite sure you can't change usernames over bets.
Especially crappy ones like these
Especially crappy ones like these
A fit Ageuro is the best striker in the league bar none.
Genuinely interested as to why you think Aguero declined last season? He managed a league goal every 99 mins, so I'm not sure what kind of return he has to give to be considered at the top of his game?
I often think his injuries cloud some judgement on how good he actually is. Consider he's never actually made a PL team of the season, quite amazing really.
I don't think he was as good as normal last season, in terms of overall performances. Wouldn't say decline though, that'd suggest a permanent change when in reality I think he just had a few more off spells than he usually does.
His burst of pace has gone imo. He doesn't take on players the way he used to
For me he comes across as arrogant and yeah, he plays for the other side, can't get over that particular moment...Why don't you like Aguero?
'Apart from his goal in the PL i don't see much'
The level of posting these days is so poor...I don't think I have read anything so ridiculous. The main reason he is paid by his employer is to score goal in the PL
Yeah, you do have a point there, he's mainly paid to bang in the goals and he's up for the job in the Premiership so my statement was too harsh, football has and always will be about goals, should have put it better, sorry.
In my view Zlatan has more to his game than Aguero. I perceive Zlatan as a leader who is quite creative, can't see any of it in Aguero. Maybe Aguero suffered because of bad coaching, Pep is a different kettle of fish, let's see what Pep can do but i'm not happy, because Pep knows stuff. At least Derby will be fun...
Alright alright so hes not third best in the world grand overstatement by me. Sorry.
Strikers i would consider better than Aguero? There are many. No particular order:
Saurez
Neymar
Messi
Benzema
Ronaldo
Higuain
Lewandowski
Aubameyang
Ibrahimovic.
Strikers i would consider better than Aguero? There are many. No particular order:
Saurez
Neymar
Messi
Benzema
Ronaldo
Higuain
Lewandowski
Aubameyang
Ibrahimovic.
Recently seen a video of 'el emperador' Adriano back in 2005...these type of strikers were on a different level, mhh.
Anyway i think it's controversial to state that Aubameyang is better than Aguero, for me a very good season isn't good enough.
I can agree on the rest.
Performance and impact on the field. Not in terms of statistics.
I feel he's lost a bit of pace and his dribbling ability has declined because of that.
Thought he was poor in most of the big games for City last season too.
I agree.
The clip at 0:50. I don't think he has that in him anymore. At least not consistently.
ArrogantFor me he comes across as arrogant and yeah, he plays for the other side, can't get over that particular moment...
Yeah, you do have a point there, he's mainly paid to bang in the goals and he's up for the job in the Premiership so my statement was too harsh, football has and always will be about goals, should have put it better, sorry.
In my view Zlatan has more to his game than Aguero. I perceive Zlatan as a leader who is quite creative, can't see any of it in Aguero. Maybe Aguero suffered because of bad coaching, Pep is a different kettle of fish, let's see what Pep can do but i'm not happy, because Pep knows stuff. At least Derby will be fun...
Are you talking about the same player? He rarely even give interviews so how is he arrogant?
Happens when you have constant hamstring injuries
Recon we should have a Ibra vs Aguero thread?
Don't think Ibra is going to hit Aguero's numbers tbh but he will do well.
Aguero doesn't come across as arrogant to me. The guy barely says a word and has always remained very respectful to everyone whenever I've seen an interview. Considering how annoyingly good he is it's quite refreshing to see actually.For me he comes across as arrogant and yeah, he plays for the other side, can't get over that particular moment...
Yeah, you do have a point there, he's mainly paid to bang in the goals and he's up for the job in the Premiership so my statement was too harsh, football has and always will be about goals, should have put it better, sorry.
In my view Zlatan has more to his game than Aguero. I perceive Zlatan as a leader who is quite creative, can't see any of it in Aguero. Maybe Aguero suffered because of bad coaching, Pep is a different kettle of fish, let's see what Pep can do but i'm not happy, because Pep knows stuff. At least Derby will be fun...
You hinted at yourself but if Aguero is the arrogant one in a discussion about him and Zlatan, there might be a hint of bias coming through!
One thing I don't get about City's transfer strategy is the signings that have been made on the wings/attacking midfield/striker positions.
I mean, Jesus and Sane I can see making a big impact but only if they are given the opportunities to develop their game. Jesus will get those games until December, but they'll be in Brazil which is pointless if you want him to ultimately be a first team player in the Prem. Equally, Moreno being loaned to a La Liga side is pointless as the style of football is too different and they won't have the necessary skills to translate into England.
Sane is a quality player, but in a side which already has KDB, Nolito and Sterling (we can lol all we want but the idiots paid £50m for him. There's no way they won't try to eke out every bit of ability he has, however comparatively little it may be) in it, how is he going to get the games he needs? Pep isn't exactly the best manager for a young player from Westphalia to make a big money move to either (cf. Goetze - and he was more accomplished and naturally talented than Sane IMO). He's 20 now too, so it's not a Jesus situation where he'd be happy to get the odd game from the bench here and there. He will probably only be able to afford one season as a squad player, and with the age profile of those wing signings made, there's no chance any of them will get the games they need to develop into the players they could be. Plus, it's likely Pep won't be there beyond 2019, so even though Pep wanted these guys in, he likely won't be around to see it through.
The one player I feel for the most though, is Iheanacho. He is an absolutely quality striker who is likely happy to be a bit part player and would have been ready once Aguero slowed down. City have fecked his chances well and proper with the signings of Jesus and Moreno, and the benefits of these moves can't even logically be surmised for the ones making the move either.
I mean, Jesus and Sane I can see making a big impact but only if they are given the opportunities to develop their game. Jesus will get those games until December, but they'll be in Brazil which is pointless if you want him to ultimately be a first team player in the Prem. Equally, Moreno being loaned to a La Liga side is pointless as the style of football is too different and they won't have the necessary skills to translate into England.
Sane is a quality player, but in a side which already has KDB, Nolito and Sterling (we can lol all we want but the idiots paid £50m for him. There's no way they won't try to eke out every bit of ability he has, however comparatively little it may be) in it, how is he going to get the games he needs? Pep isn't exactly the best manager for a young player from Westphalia to make a big money move to either (cf. Goetze - and he was more accomplished and naturally talented than Sane IMO). He's 20 now too, so it's not a Jesus situation where he'd be happy to get the odd game from the bench here and there. He will probably only be able to afford one season as a squad player, and with the age profile of those wing signings made, there's no chance any of them will get the games they need to develop into the players they could be. Plus, it's likely Pep won't be there beyond 2019, so even though Pep wanted these guys in, he likely won't be around to see it through.
The one player I feel for the most though, is Iheanacho. He is an absolutely quality striker who is likely happy to be a bit part player and would have been ready once Aguero slowed down. City have fecked his chances well and proper with the signings of Jesus and Moreno, and the benefits of these moves can't even logically be surmised for the ones making the move either.
This season:
ST Aguero Kelechi --> Bony if he stays will be 3rd choice.
LW Nolito Sterling
CAM De Bruyne Silva
RW Navas Sane
Moreno & Jesus on loan for all/half the season. Nolito likely a stop-gap (ala Zlatan), a proven goal scoring winger who can do a good job for a couple of seasons whilst helping Sterling develop/compete with him, once he's off you'll have Moreno/Sterling for LW.
Sane I expect could immediately be a starter, or rotating with Navas, but soon enough Navas will be off, leaving Sane & Roberts next season I imagine to vie for the RW position.
Not sure where the plan is for Jesus to end up, seems to be doing well at ST so could end up with Kelechi/Jesus eventually.
Not sure quite how Kelechi has been fecked, he'll still be #2 striker this season regardless of the new signings. Similar to how Rashford will be #2 behind Zlatan most likely.
I guess the tactic is we've now got arguably one of the best talent groups in the world potentially coming through in 3-4 years time & not all will make it, but by having a handful of them it increases the chances we've got one or more of the guys who do break through & make it. Definitely a transfer window with the future in mind rather than buying immediate first teamers as you guys have gone for.
With the players they buying and already bought will we genuinely see any of their big earners being shifted? They have a massively deep and quality squad now (favourites for the title for me as we have more of a job to do). But like us,they've made many expensive mistakes on players like Mangala on high wages.
No, I get the rationale behind why City have been pursuing the strategy, my issue is that the players you bought won't actually get enough chances to actually develop to their best. Even if there was all the will in the world for these players to develop, the space in the team just isn't there.
Kelechi is fecked because you have bought (or will buy) Moreno and Jesus who operate best in his position. That is two comparable talents who are of a similar age and profile. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is a big chance all three won't develop to their best because the one thing a young player needs to develop their game fully is game time. If you are committing to develop these players, they won't get that game time. If you choose to loan them out, then a loan to continental Europe (in the case of Moreno) or a loanback to the selling club (Jesus) is pointless if the goal is to develop these players into first team footballers in the Prem.
Plus, as we've seen over the years, developing young players is not a definite science. Kids' development can ebb and flow, and with you buying all those players, I'm just not sure how they will all develop with there being so many to compete for four positions on the pitch (at the most). I understand the argument that increased competition drives up standards, but the equally valid argument is that of the opportunity cost: giving chances to one kid in one match, is at the expense of another, with around 2 kids per position competing for games, it'll eventually come to a point where the development of all of the kids will stall if in the likely event that all of the kids are at a similar standard because the game time is essentially shared between the three.
Based on watching Aguero, for the last 5 years, absolutely destroy the Premier League (which is apparently the toughest league in the world, and the most physically demanding).
He scores a goal within every 110 minutes of PL football. That's better than Henry (122), and Nistelrooy (128), and everybody else to ever play in the league.
The man is just tailor made for football here and he's consistently proved it, and will continue to do that.
Happy to make you a bet - loser gets banned from the forum - that Aguero scores more than Ibra next year. Even if he's injured for 15 games it'll be close.
Edit: I should clarify goals in the PL only, god knows who you'll come across in the Europa League.
99% sure you'll win this one. No way Ibra outscores Aguero in his first ever season in the Prem at his age. Like you say, Aguero is a Premier League goalscoring machine.
So, City got 2 wingers this summer....
AND KDB isn't a winger, does that mean Silva will eventually get sold this summer or next?
AND KDB isn't a winger, does that mean Silva will eventually get sold this summer or next?
Iheanacho is not fecked at all, he's immensely talented and he will be given chances under Pep, it's up to him to take them. He is versatile and can play as a lone striker, behind a striker and out wide. Moreno is a winger so there is no direct competition there really. Jesus won't be joining City until December and even then he might finish the season elsewhere.
Maybe, for your club's sake I hope you're right. Moreno always strikes me as a striker rather than a winger, but I'll take your word for it.
Nolito, Zinchenko, Gundogan, Sane, Jesus, Moreno...
None proven in the PL, none except for Sane is taller than 6 feet(171-180cm, Sane 184cm), none of them are really strong, none of them a certain to set the league alight.
Furthermore, they need three more players for their defence.
My dream scenario is that Pep is thinking too much of himself. Thinking he can dominate the Premier League with midget tiki-taka and ends up being a laughing stock, with the signings staying more on the sidelines nursing injuries and warming the bench than developing. Once United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham take the Champions League spots this season, there'll be player mutiny and pressure from owners, pushing Pep to indulge in his diva attitude throwing hissy fits at every direction. Inevitably losing his argument that he's building for the future, and end up being replaced by Wenger to guide them back into fourth.
None proven in the PL, none except for Sane is taller than 6 feet(171-180cm, Sane 184cm), none of them are really strong, none of them a certain to set the league alight.
Furthermore, they need three more players for their defence.
My dream scenario is that Pep is thinking too much of himself. Thinking he can dominate the Premier League with midget tiki-taka and ends up being a laughing stock, with the signings staying more on the sidelines nursing injuries and warming the bench than developing. Once United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham take the Champions League spots this season, there'll be player mutiny and pressure from owners, pushing Pep to indulge in his diva attitude throwing hissy fits at every direction. Inevitably losing his argument that he's building for the future, and end up being replaced by Wenger to guide them back into fourth.
They've made some extremely exciting signings. Whether they'll be good signings only time will tell, because no youngster is a sure thing. However, if the players they've brought in go on to reach their potential then this window could be something special for them. And who would bet against the signings doing exactly that, given that they've got the best manager in the world at the helm?
It's not only about interviews it's also about how he conducts himself on the field, it's subjective, reminds me a bit of Thiago, but i'm not a fan so i'm definitely biased, just an opinion.
As aformentioned, sometimes Aguero gets a tough treatment, some guys only want to hurt him, slow him down and maybe even worse, so i get that he can't be all nice and maybe i've just seen more of his worst days.
No problems, lads!
Disliking Aguero for being 'arrogant' (don't see it at all) and then praising ZlatanFor me he comes across as arrogant and yeah, he plays for the other side, can't get over that particular moment...
Yeah, you do have a point there, he's mainly paid to bang in the goals and he's up for the job in the Premiership so my statement was too harsh, football has and always will be about goals, should have put it better, sorry.
In my view Zlatan has more to his game than Aguero. I perceive Zlatan as a leader who is quite creative, can't see any of it in Aguero. Maybe Aguero suffered because of bad coaching, Pep is a different kettle of fish, let's see what Pep can do but i'm not happy, because Pep knows stuff. At least Derby will be fun...
Aguero is definitely the more likeable player. Zlatan is an egomaniac, if you knew somebody like him in everyday life you'd despise him. He didn't get on with Guardiola because he can't take being treated as just another player, has to be the big man on campus. It's fine if you treat him like that (you will) but if not you'll have issues.
To be fair, i read Zlatan's book and he makes a case for himself. Moreover one of my best mates has similar characteristics like Zlatan, so i know the type and i for one made peace with it.Disliking Aguero for being 'arrogant' (don't see it at all) and then praising Zlatan
Aguero is definitely the more likeable player. Zlatan is an egomaniac, if you knew somebody like him in everyday life you'd despise him. He didn't get on with Guardiola because he can't take being treated as just another player, has to be the big man on campus. It's fine if you treat him like that (you will) but if not you'll have issues.
Zlatan won't take shit from anyone, he likes the hype and is feeding it, but he's not taking it too serious. On the field his only agenda is to win at all costs, he knows what he can do, everywhere he goes, he takes over and scores magnificent goals, most times he wins things. Off the field he's a complete different person. Comes across quite nice, imo.
The problem with Pep is (other players state it too), he goes into hiding from tough conversations, his way of dealing with this stuff is to stop speaking with you and more or less leaving you alone in the dark. Zlatan and other players prefer clear messages, not beating about the bush time and time again.
I can see through Zlatan's mask, can't say much about Aguero, maybe i was too hursh on him. Yeah and maybe you do have a point there, Zlatan isn't made for the bench.
I've read Suarez's book and it makes him seem decent, you can make most people sound nice if it's all coming from their point of view.
He's a bit of a bellend, to be fair. It's fine, there's much nastier in football, but he's not a likeable human being. He talks about himself in the third person for god sake. He's come out with some utter nonsense that is pure cringe. Off the pitch, he's the same egomaniac. A charismatic egomaniac for sure, which is why he's more liked than Ronaldo despite having an even bigger ego, because unlike Ibra Ronaldo has the personality of a plant pot.
That wasn't the only problem with Pep. His Barca side was a well oiled, disciplined machine. There was no flashy nonsense, it was a team. It wasn't 'I am Zlatan' enough for him. He wanted to drive his ferrari to training, he couldn't accept Messi being better than him and he didn't like Pep's coaching methods. Funny how it's players like Ribery and Ibra who complain about Pep, because others seem to adore him. Usually the ones who are a bit quieter and do their talking on the pitch, like Lahm & Messi. Funnily enough, these players are often the best in the 'big matches', which Ibrahimovic has always had an issue with. For somebody who considers himself practically a deity, he hasn't half struggled to make an impact on the Champions League. An incredible player of course, but has never been quite as good as he thinks he is.
I see nothing to suggest Aguero's a bad guy. Doesn't seem to have an ego, never really complains. Just a top, top striker who I think is very likeable. Has had the odd little incident, but nothing serious. I don't see anything wrong with a player who puts his head down and concentrates on his football, that's what he's paid for, not to be a part of the media circus.
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Great post
How does he conduct himself on the fieldIt's not only about interviews it's also about how he conducts himself on the field, it's subjective, reminds me a bit of Thiago, but i'm not a fan so i'm definitely biased, just an opinion.
As aformentioned, sometimes Aguero gets a tough treatment, some guys only want to hurt him, slow him down and maybe even worse, so i get that he can't be all nice and maybe i've just seen more of his worst days.
No problems, lads!
Okay man, after consideration i admit defeat in the Aguero case, it's just personal feelings, can't back it up and that's always a bad sign. I'll come back if i find something, but today i don't have a case, i have been taken out, congrats!
One day i'm going to read the Suarez book, so far i only read short excerpts, could go well with my intention of improving my Spanish. The biting is an odd one, that's a big one yeah, but apart from that, i admire his drive (quite a story with his wife) and his brilliance on the field, overall i like the guy.
I wouldn't read too much into Zlatan's third person talking, that's his thing, but only there for banter. On some days my mouth's running and it's difficult to stop. Especially if you're constantly in the spotlight where every word is going to be twisted it could end up badly. I think his talking is funny, i guess most people take it with a pinch of salt, that's just entertainment and Zlatan knows that too.
Ibrahimovic was scoring goals, decided the Clasico with a beauty, but not good enough for Pep. Why oh why had he to disrupt that collective, left him with no striker (no.9)and the knockout against Inter and Eto'o. Trying to tell adult players which car they should take and being accused of spying behind his players aren't good things. Ibrahimovic was most times the crucial factor why his teams almost always won the championship, being the best team in the country is considered as the most important title for a lot of people. He didn't win the CL so far, okay, but he played brilliant matches, for example against Chelsea he lead the troops to victory during the knockout stages. Ribery is one of the best foreign players the Bundesliga has ever seen, probably the best i've seen, he did the talking on the pitch. Was one of the key elements why Bayern won the Champions-League final, stage doesn't get any bigger than this. Eto'o has always been a big game player, but he's been highly critical of Pep.
I'm not saying these guys are right, the truth is most times been found somewhere in the middle, but what i want to say is that the above mentioned players 'did the talking' on the pitch, how can you objectively say that someone like Iniesta was better in big games than Eto'o?
Ibra couldn't take it that Messi was the main man.
Ibrahimovic is a pure number 9, Messi asked Pep to put him there and Zlatan was on the bench. At the end of the day Zlatan would have preferred a real talk with Pep, then he would have left on good terms. Pep didn't say much to him, ignored him most times (according to Ibrahimovic)... if that were true, is that the way adults treat each other?
Why do you buy the most expensive player in the history of the club (at that time) if you aren't fully convinced of him? Ibrahimovic said that he didn't have any problems with Messi, so nothing to see there, imo. Ibrahimovic just wants to play and win, that's all. On the basis of his skillset that's fair, on that occasion he was more or less at his peak. Not the smartest choice to relocate a guy with his strengths and weaknesses to the fecking wing...
Betting on Zlatan over Aguero is madness. Have people really forgotten already how absolutely devastating Aguero is when he's fit?
He blames Evra for absolutely everything and takes only a token amount of responsibility. He also paints himself as a victim of the evil English Media throughout, as if he's some kind of innocent party who was completely undeserving of the criticism. There's some interesting bits here and there, and yes his relationship with his wife is quite special. He's an absolutely brilliant player, there can be no doubting that, my favourite player around at the moment in terms of pure performances.
I really don't think it is, though. I agree that it's all mostly in fun spirit, but behind all of that there's clearly a colossal ego and that makes him a very unlikable player. I don't think his comments are all for a media show either, he's made them to his fellow players as well. He always takes over at clubs, and has to become the centre of attention. A club can become a sideshow to Ibrahimovic very easily, especially when he makes the sort of comments he made at PSG. You find his personality endearing which is fair enough, but personally I find him extremely self obsessive and rather trashy. It's just a difference in opinion, I suppose.
Guardiola had his rules, he was strict. He didn't want players going on an ego trip, for him team work is absolutely everything, at the core of his ethos. Hence the car rule, it helps prevent petty squabbles over who has the most expensive toy and creates a sense of equality around the club. He's a control freak no doubt, but when his players buy in to his methods they win, simple as that. At Barcelona - players like Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets...they are perfect for this, they listen, they aren't egomaniacs. Pep is like a Headmaster, he is in full control. Ibrahimovic had more authority than the manager at PSG, that could never happen with Guardiola.
Ibrahimovic is a brilliant player at league level, but in Europe he's always flattered to deceive. In big games, he often seems to just float around and offer very little in terms of effort, it can be incredibly frustrating even for a neutral to watch. He's failed in too many big European games to call it a coincidence, and it will forever be a mark on his career. He was also very poor against Chelsea despite his goal and invisible against a poor City side. In fact, his record against English sides has actually been horrible throughout his entire career. It's not even the European games either, even in Serie A he struggled against top sides, with 1 goal in 9 games against Juventus. As for his Madrid goal...that was the only 1 he scored against them in 5 matches.
Ribery's brilliant, but he showed some of his true attitude under Pep. He's clearly not the player he was and struggled badly with injuries, and he took his frustrations out on the manager. Domenech called him a 'diva' too, he has a few attitude issues and it showed under Pep. It won't be tolerated whilst he is manager. Eto'o also fell out with Mourinho at Chelsea by the way. For top managers like these, it's inevitable that you're going to have a few players who throw a strop.
Iniesta? Weird example. VERY weird example. He's absolutely fantastic in the big games, for club & country. Honestly, I'm struggling to think of a better big game player. You're talking about a guy who was man of the match in the Champions League final against Juventus, in a Euro's final and a World Cup final. He's the only man ever to have done this. You won't find a better player for the big occasions than Iniesta - he's actually the perfect example of a quiet, reserved player who concentrates on his
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It's unbelievable, really. Even with all his fitness issues causing a stop start season, he finished only 1 goal behind Kane, who had a brilliant season. He scored a goal every 99 minutes compared to Kane's goal every 135 minutes, he's an absolutely insane player.Betting on Zlatan over Aguero is madness. Have people really forgotten already how absolutely devastating Aguero is when he's fit?
A fit Aguero bullies the Premier League. You can question his performances in Europe (Much like Zlatan's) but in this league, he runs absolute riot. There's not a player in the league that gets me more frightened when he runs at the Spurs defence. You just know all it takes is an inch of space and it'll be in, an assassin in front of goal.
Ibrahimovic is 34 and has never played in the Premier League before, of course he's been in incredible form for PSG but it's a completely different scenario. Scoring 3-4 goals every other week for a super team who clinches the league title with a 9-0 win isn't the same as playing in the Premier League, I'm afraid. I think he'll do very well for United, probably around 15 goals and 10 assists, but I'm almost certain he won't outscore Aguero...there's also the question mark over his performances against English sides in Europe.
I can't imagine any betting man would go with Ibra, too many question marks. Only one for Aguero is his fitness issues.