Our third greatest ever manager

[Gazza]

Another poster in another suggested Ole is our 3rd greatest manager, and with the recent passing of Tommy Doc I was wondering who the caf would put forth (forth, not fourth)?

A lot of us have only followed the club since Fergie’s time so I realize this might be more difficult/easier for some than others. In my lifetime and since Fergie left, Ole’s team has played the most enjoyable football overall, although Jose and Louis were more successful than him trophy wise, so far at least.

Does Atkinson have a shout? Or is it the Doc?

 

[United58]

1) Ferguson/Busby (Busby gets pushed up because of Munich, he would have won as much as Ferguson without it)
2) Ernest Magnall
3) ??????


Hopefully Ole makes 3, certainly made a decent start to his tenure

 

[RashyForPM]

Well, from our post-war managers, it’s incredibly hard to pick one. I think McGuinness, Sexton, Moyes, Giggs and Ole ought to be ruled out for now due to them not winning any trophies. LvG too because the football was truly appalling. This leaves Docherty, Atkinson and Mourinho, and because Atkinson signed Robbo, and won two major trophies in his time, equal to Mourinho and one more than Docherty, I suppose he has to get the nod. Remember, the FA Cup back then was as valuable as the league.

So, this gives:

1) Fergie
2) Busby
3) Atkinson
4) Docherty
5) Mourinho
6) Ole
7) LvG
8) Sexton
9) Moyes, Giggs and McGuinness

 

[Tarrou]

Magnall probably, has anyone else won a title?

 

[L1nk]

How in gods name is Ole our 3rd greatest? Even Mourinho is above him and thats not including others that have been included in this thread already, hell you could argue that even Van Gaal was a better manager, football garbage? Sure, but surely you judge how well the managers have done by actually winning something, of which Van Gaal did and Ole has yet not.

 

[Green_Red]

Magnall probably, has anyone else won a title?

No, only Magnall, Busby and Fergie.

 

[paulscholes18]

Surly they must have meant 3rd best manager since SAF left?

 

[balaks]

Wow

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

How in gods name is Ole our 3rd greatest? Even Mourinho is above him and thats not including others that have been included in this thread already, hell you could argue that even Van Gaal was a better manager, football garbage? Sure, but surely you judge how well the managers have done by actually winning something, of which Van Gaal did and Ole has yet not.

I think I'd give consistency in the league more weight for managerial success than winning a cup, not that it would justify ranking Ole higher.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Come on now

 

[Stack]

Well, from our post-war managers, it’s incredibly hard to pick one. I think McGuinness, Sexton, Moyes, Giggs and Ole ought to be ruled out for now due to them not winning any trophies. LvG too because the football was truly appalling. This leaves Docherty, Atkinson and Mourinho, and because Atkinson signed Robbo, and won two major trophies in his time, equal to Mourinho and one more than Docherty, I suppose he has to get the nod. Remember, the FA Cup back then was as valuable as the league.

So, this gives:

1) Fergie
2) Busby
3) Atkinson
4) Docherty
5) Mourinho
6) Ole
7) LvG
8) Sexton
9) Moyes, Giggs and McGuinness

Sorry but I would put Ole and Sexton above Mourinho. Mourinhos time was some of the most awful football I have ever seen utd teams play. I remember watching Sextons teams and his were no where near as tedious to watch than Mourinhos drivel.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

Surly they must have meant 3rd best manager since SAF left?

No - third best manager in United history because he is running the club how it should be run. Running Manchester United as a FOOTBALL CLUB, not just a football team, like Mourinho, LvG, Atkinson, The Doc did.

Let's not forget, that while ripping the first team squad apart and starting by giving priority to the academy (just like Busby did, and Fergie did) Solskjaer has still won more matches and has a much better first team record than both Busby and Ferguson did after two years in charge.

 

[Loon]

I barely remember the Doc side, but they were a flying team with exciting wingers in Coppell and Hill, but I will always have a sentimental reaction to that Atkinson side, who were so close to a title, but just faltered because of an over-reliance on the amazing Bryan Robson. They could beat anyone on their day, including a genuinely dominant Liverpool side and do it playing great football.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think I'd give consistency in the league more weight for managerial success than winning a cup, not that it would justify ranking Ole higher.

2 cups right? As a big club, major trophies are truly what matter for United however despite not like Jose, objectively looking at it, a 2nd place finish and 2 trophies definitely rank higher than what Ole has done so far.

Ole has this season to improve his standing but this is all a bit much. We are giant club now and our managers now have much more at their disposal than those in the 70s and 80s did.

 

[GoldTrafford99]

I barely remember the Doc side, but they were a flying team with exciting wingers in Coppell and Hill, but I will always have a sentimental reaction to that Atkinson side, who were so close to a title, but just faltered because of an over-reliance on the amazing Bryan Robson. They could beat anyone on their day, including a genuinely dominant Liverpool side and do it playing great football.

Yeah, but under TheDoc andBig Ron, the club was going nowhere. There was no plan. We had just become a first team; the academy had all but been forgotten about.

The 80s ere bleak for us, despite winning a couple of trophies... because there was never a light at the end of the tunnel. It was game by game. Match by match. The exact opposite way of how to run a football club.

We have only been successful in two periods in our entire history. Both were planned for over a long-period of time that meant we didn't just win a trophy here or there, we stayed at the top for a decade and longer... This is what Ole is currently planning and plotting. none of this one game at a time shite like The Doc and Big Ron did.

Ole is doing a stellar job, that far surpasses and will prove to far surpass anything The Doc or Big Ron did.

 

[padzilla]

Hopefully it's too early in Ole's career as United manager to say where he will be in the pecking order but until he wins trophies and challenges for major honours then he has to be well down the club's pecking order.

 

[Random Task]

You cannot place Ole 3rd on a list of United's greatest managers without him ever winning a trophy for the club. You just don't do it.

Maybe in time. Maybe. But not yet.

 

[Withnail]

I think we're all getting a little bit ahead of ourselves here. Maybe Ole will be by the end of the season but not right now he isn't.

 

[Loon]

Yeah, but under TheDoc andBig Ron, the club was going nowhere. There was no plan. We had just become a first team; the academy had all but been forgotten about.

The 80s ere bleak for us, despite winning a couple of trophies... because there was never a light at the end of the tunnel. It was game by game. Match by match. The exact opposite way of how to run a football club.

We have only been successful in two periods in our entire history. Both were planned for over a long-period of time that meant we didn't just win a trophy here or there, we stayed at the top for a decade and longer... This is what Ole is currently planning and plotting. none of this one game at a time shite like The Doc and Big Ron did.

Ole is doing a stellar job, that far surpasses and will prove to far surpass anything The Doc or Big Ron did.

Well, I'm not so sure about Solskjaer surpassing what The Doc or Ron did already. I mean, they both won trophies and he's won nothing, he might in time, but let's see. I hope he proves everybody wrong.

I'm assuming you were there in the 80s but this "one game at a time" in the 80's thing is far from the truth. Both the Doc and Atkinson tried to assemble title-winning teams (as Busby did post-Munich) and The Doc was fired immediately after success (in the 70s btw) for non-football reasons and Atkinson (who did let the Academy fall by the wayside, admittedly whilst still bringing through players like Mark Hughes and Norman Whiteside from the Academy) just couldn't manage it, despite being close.

Yeah, Ferguson started to re-organise the Academy when he was appointed, but the football was not great and he was under fire himself. Let's not get bogged down about the Academy when it is the first team that wins trophies. Ferguson's title winning side in 1993 was assembled, bar one player. It's great to have players come through the ranks, but it is ultimately all about assembling a first team wherever they might come from, which is exactly the same plan Solskjaer is implementing now.

 

[Pretzels81]

Mou, 17-18.

 

[L1nk]

No - third best manager in United history because he is running the club how it should be run. Running Manchester United as a FOOTBALL CLUB, not just a football team, like Mourinho, LvG, Atkinson, The Doc did.

Let's not forget, that while ripping the first team squad apart and starting by giving priority to the academy (just like Busby did, and Fergie did) Solskjaer has still won more matches and has a much better first team record than both Busby and Ferguson did after two years in charge.

Damn, i guess Ole is on track to be better than Ferguson and Busby ever was then. Seriously Ole cultists on this forum blow my mind.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Ole cannot be considered until he wins trophies. Even if we win a Carling cup.

I'm no Jose fan but the fact we win two things with him puts him further up the list that Ole from a historical point of view.

Ole can climb the ladder though as he is still here

 

[Grylte]

When i read the thread title, i expected that @sammsky1 had made it...

Has he deleted his account?

 

[diarm]

I'm Ole's biggest fan, but the term "great" invokes the idea of glory and achievement. You could argue that in your opinion he is the 3rd best, for the reasons outlined above, and that would be ok because it's a subjective opinion, but you can't argue that he is the 3rd greatest.

Likewise, you can't discount Mourinho because you don't like the style of football his side played. He won a European trophy and as such, sits comfortably in 4th place after Sir Alex, Sir Matt and Mangnall as Uniteds "greatest" ever managers.

Hitler, Ghengis Khan and Alexander were great - even if the tactics they employed were horrific.

 

[Loon]

I honestly don't think there's a single person (not you, oppos) who wouldn't love to see Solskjaer become United third, or best ever, manager, but he has to start somewhere. I'd love to win that league cup. I don't get the snobbery. Maybe because I was around in the 80s.

 

[rotherham_red]

I'd say the top 3 are:

SAF
SMB
Ernest Mangnall

I don't think Ole will ever get close to the big two, and even the 3rd on the list had 2 titles, but I think his legacy at this point will be an undoubtedly positive one and many of us will look back fondly at his achievements, much the same way that reds of a certain vintage looked back on the Doc's time at the club. He's removed the toxicity of Jose and improved upon the bland and anaemic football that was being played by the 3 men before him. He's also stuck to Utd's principles all the way through and has rekindled the bond between the fans and the players that was seemingly lost under Jose and LvG.

I think that is the base line for Ole at this point, and depending on how he progresses, he could shoot his way up to be in consideration for number 3 on the list.

 

[man united 4eva]

We've had 23 different managers plus 2 caretaker managers from 1892 up to present day... In order of most major trophies won : I. Sir Alex.. 2. Sir Matt.. 3. Ernest Mangnall.. 4. Big Ron/Jose.. 5. The Doc/LVG..

 

[Offside]

Giggsy.

 

[R.N7]

Trophies won by Moyes: 1
Trophies won by Solkjaer: 0

 

[RashyForPM]

Sorry but I would put Ole and Sexton above Mourinho. Mourinhos time was some of the most awful football I have ever seen utd teams play. I remember watching Sextons teams and his were no where near as tedious to watch than Mourinhos drivel.

I’ll take your word on Sexton as I’m nowhere near old enough to have watched his sides and had to do research on all the managers up to Atkinson. For Ole though, the earliest he can overtake Mourinho for me is if he can win the Carabao Cup in April. The only reason I’m making that exception is despite him still having one less major honour than Mourinho if we win that, the football under Ole is far better and more exciting than under Mourinho.

 

[Denis' cuff]

The Doc, for me. Started it all from scratch. Turned a relegated team into trophy winners and title contenders that we surely would’ve been. Got the place buzzing. Unfortunately, had a great Liverpool side to overcome and we’ll never know how he would’ve done.

Ron? Got us playing good football after Sextons dreary years. Won the cup twice but it was a holiday camp with players only turning up when they felt like it.

Ole? Looks quite promising but still early days

 

[Woodzy]

We were desperate for him to be sacked around a month ago and now we are claiming he's our third greatest manager?

 

[mariachi-19]

The Doc, for me. Started it all from scratch. Turned a relegated team into trophy winners and title contenders that we surely would’ve been. Got the place buzzing. Unfortunately, had a great Liverpool side to overcome and we’ll never know how he would’ve done.

Ron? Got us playing good football after Sextons dreary years. Won the cup twice but it was a holiday camp with players only turning up when they felt like it.

Ole? Looks quite promising but still early days

Sounds familiar

 

[Siorac]

We were desperate for him to be sacked around a month ago and now we are claiming he's our third greatest manager?

Probably not the same people.

 

[Garethw]

No - third best manager in United history because he is running the club how it should be run. Running Manchester United as a FOOTBALL CLUB, not just a football team, like Mourinho, LvG, Atkinson, The Doc did.

Let's not forget, that while ripping the first team squad apart and starting by giving priority to the academy (just like Busby did, and Fergie did) Solskjaer has still won more matches and has a much better first team record than both Busby and Ferguson did after two years in charge.

Calling Ole the third greatest of all time is bloody ridiculous though .

He needs to start winning major trophies to even get into the top ten ffs.

 

[Mattzo]

I agree with Docherty as the 3rd.
I strongly opposed Mourinho is even better than Ole in terms of building a team. He just came to ruin Man Utd, he only cares about quick fix by spending hundred millions on stars. I don't think he even cares about the club's philosophy, the attacking football tradition, etc, and he's too pragmatic in his approach to get a win.

Look what he had left after he sacked, deadwood and spoiled players who care about money and ruin the changing room's chemistry. Not only at Man Utd, he also made every manager recruited after him have to clean his mess.

 

[b82REZ]

No - third best manager in United history because he is running the club how it should be run. Running Manchester United as a FOOTBALL CLUB, not just a football team, like Mourinho, LvG, Atkinson, The Doc did.

Let's not forget, that while ripping the first team squad apart and starting by giving priority to the academy (just like Busby did, and Fergie did) Solskjaer has still won more matches and has a much better first team record than both Busby and Ferguson did after two years in charge.

 

[arnie_ni]

Madness

 

[wolvored]

L

Yeah, but under TheDoc andBig Ron, the club was going nowhere. There was no plan. We had just become a first team; the academy had all but been forgotten about.

The 80s ere bleak for us, despite winning a couple of trophies... because there was never a light at the end of the tunnel. It was game by game. Match by match. The exact opposite way of how to run a football club.

We have only been successful in two periods in our entire history. Both were planned for over a long-period of time that meant we didn't just win a trophy here or there, we stayed at the top for a decade and longer... This is what Ole is currently planning and plotting. none of this one game at a time shite like The Doc and Big Ron did.

Ole is doing a stellar job, that far surpasses and will prove to far surpass anything The Doc or Big Ron did.

I hope you are right about Ole, but doc was building a young team including academy players Daly and Greenhoff I think he promoted as well as giving McIlroy regular game time. If he hadn't have fecked Laurie brown's missus he would have won the league I'm sure. Atkinson won us more than the doc and promoted Hughes McGrath and Whiteside, but he was also a chequebook manager with disastrous results along with gems like Robson Moses Strachan

 

[Giggsy13]

I’m an Ole supporter but this thread is just ridiculous and a massive overreaction. Just enjoy the season and worry about Ole’s place in our managerial history when something important happens.