Out of our squad: Which of those players would get into the other PL ”top 6”

[simplyared]

My assessment as follows:

DDG: Arsenal, Spurs, City, Chelsea, Liverpool
Shaw: Arsenal, Spurs
Smalling: Arsenal
Matic: Arsenal
Pogba: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea
Lingard: Arsenal
Lukaku: Chelsea
Rashford: Arsenal
Alexis: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool

Looking at the set-ups, style of play, managers, etc in the other 5 teams, I reckon that’s about the level our current players are at.

Alexis is difficult to value, looking at his dip in form since he joined us, however I still believe he’s class and would get into those teams.

As good as Pogba can be, I can’t see him getting into that City midfield and I don’t think he would suit Klopp at Liverpool.

With that in mind (if anyone thinks roughly the same as I do), there are at least 4 teams better than we are, player for player.

We can press these teams as much as we want but we won’t have anything to show for it as we are lacking quality in too many key positions. That’s why we weren’t 3 up at half time against Spurs and the reason why they could come out in the 2nd half and batter us.

Reality check!

 

[el3mel]

De Gea in all of them and Lukaku in Chelsea.

That's it.

Arsenal are irrelevant for me as they don't aim to compete anymore.

 

[RobinLFC]

It's pretty ridiculous to suggest Pogba wouldn't get into this Liverpool side. He's several levels above a player like Wijnaldum who is currently doing a phenomenal job for us, so I'm sure Klopp would fit him right into our midfield and he could be extraordinary.

Apart from that, I'm also convinced (Arsenal) Alexis could do a similar job to Mane for us, you won't convince me he lost all his qualities when he joined United. It's about the system, right fit and the coaching of players, you guys have plenty of quality throughout your squad but it just doesn't show on the pitch for one reason or another.

I'd also take Shaw who's been very good this season if it wasn't for Robertson being such a beast on our left wing. Maybe Matic as well.

 

[RedSky]

Are we talking first 11's? If so then De Gea as great as he is wouldn't be ahead of Ederson or Alisson as his distribution simply isn't good enough and doesn't fit the styles of both mentioned teams.

Not too sure that Shaw would be in any of these first 11s either given how terrible he's been, 3 games doesn't change his history. Although hopefully he's coming back into some form this season.

 

[Smithy89]

De Gea in all of them and Lukaku in Chelsea.

That's it.

Arsenal are irrelevant for me as they don't aim to compete anymore.

Same amount of points as us and have played City and Chelsea.

 

[11101]

I don't understand these types of posts. Do people really believe our players are that poor. Pogba would walk into any team in the PL, so would De Gea, and with the exception of City almost all the others would too.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Pogba would get into any midfield in the world.

 

[Infra-red]

I broadly agree and think we probably have the 4th/5th best XI. I think that was the case last year too, though - squad depth and the ability to 'win ugly' kept our noses in front of those sides in the table.

Slight disagreement on Pogba, who I think would get games at all the 'big 6'. Not sure Guardiola would be a huge fan of De Gea's all-round game. Also don't think Sanchez would displace any of Liverpool's front three.

 

[el3mel]

Same amount of points as us and have played City and Chelsea.

So what ? They still don't aim to compete on the league anymore.

 

[Smithy89]

So what ? They still don't aim to compete on the league anymore.

Neither will we this season.

 

[el3mel]

Neither will we this season.

Yes but that's why are angry and not satisfied with the team results. Arsenal fans got used to this. We're not.

 

[Roboc7]

Based on performances over the last 5 years or since they joined it’s hard to make a case for virtually any of our players getting into the starting eleven of any top six side other than Arsenal.

I can’t even name one player we have bought who has performed to a higher level for us than the club we signed them from since SAF left, few have played to a similar level but the majority have been much worse.

The recruitment, management, coaching and attitude of the players are all factors, we have players with ability but everything is so rotten that it doesn’t seem to matter.

 

[Don _ Conte]

De Gea in all of them and Lukaku in Chelsea.

That's it.

Arsenal are irrelevant for me as they don't aim to compete anymore.

I'm not advocating Morata as some world class striker who is much better than Rom

But there would be nothing worse than Lukaku in our current system under Sarri, he would get in our team, but not this team and style under Sarri.
Would've done better under Conte.

 

[bosnian_red]

Depends on if we're judging just current ability, or potential ability, or a mix. Young for example starts for England at left back over Rose or Shaw, though would people say Spurs would take him? Anyway, my opinion on all things considered if everyone was a free agent with no prior ties and money/loyalty not being an option, which clubs would be interested.

De Gea - City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal
Romero - (as backup) City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs

Valencia - (as backup) City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal
Dalot - (as backup/future option) City, Chelsea
Darmian - none
Shaw - Spurs
Young - Spurs (as short term option)

Jones - backup to all
Smalling - Arsenal, Chelsea
Bailly - Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal
Lindelof - none
Rojo - none

Pogba - Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, City to replace Silva after he's done, Liverpool to play alongside Keita and Fabinho
Matic - Arsenal, Spurs, backup to others
Herrera - Arsenal, Spurs, backup to others
Fred - Arsenal, Spurs, backup to others
Pereira - none
Fellaini - none

Mata - none
Lingard - backup at Spurs, Liverpool
Martial - Spurs, Arsenal, backup/near future starter under more suited coach at City, Liverpool, Chelsea
Sanchez - Spurs, Arsenal, backup at the others

Lukaku - Chelsea
Rashford - backup at all of them

 

[simplyared]

Are we talking first 11's? If so then De Gea as great as he is wouldn't be ahead of Ederson or Alisson as his distribution simply isn't good enough and doesn't fit the styles of both mentioned teams.

Not too sure that Shaw would be in any of these first 11s either given how terrible he's been, 3 games doesn't change his history. Although hopefully he's coming back into some form this season.

1st 11 most of the time

 

[Canagel]

The problem with this is that we're assuming our players current form under Mourinho would be the same under different managers. On their CURRENT form the OP isn't too far off but this is a pointless exercise imo. We have players with ability. For whatever reason we are under performing both individually and collectively. It doesn't matter who we sign if the environment is not right. Other clubs get more out of their signings than us.

 

[noodlehair]

DDG - all of them

Shaw - Arsenal. Potentially Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea and even City as no one's full backs are all that, but he needs to perform consistently
Valencia - Arsenal, Chelsea, maybe Liverpool and Spurs

Pogba - Arsenal
Matic - Arsenal, Liverpool, maybe Spurs
Sanchez - Arsenal and potentially all of the others but based on how he played before we signed him
Lingard - Arsenal, Spurs, similar role to here at Chelsea seeing as they keep reverting back to Barkley who is like a fat useless version of Lingard.

Lukaku - Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool. Good enough for spurs but not as good as Kane.

Didn't bother with players who are but part or in and out of the team for us as then you get into "is United's 4th choice midfielder better than Liverpool's first choice midfielder" type nonsense.

In summary I think we're good enough player wise to compete with everyone except City, but our centrebacks are the weakest of all the top 6.

 

[SteveW]

Couple of months under a better manager and this thread would look very different

 

[simplyared]

The problem with this is that we're assuming our players current form under Mourinho would be the same under different managers. On their CURRENT form the OP isn't too far off but this is a pointless exercise imo. We have players with ability. For whatever reason we are under performing both individually and collectively.

Why pointless? Either you think we have the quality already but we aren't getting the right pay off because of other factors. Or: what we are seeing is what we will get and we can't expect more. If it's the latter then we need to spend. If you think it's the first scenario then down to the manager, coaching staff, and playing system. Thought I'd leave that for you to decide!

 

[MrEleson]

Pogba would get into any midfield in the world.

he wouldn't get into City or Madrid's midfield.

With regards to the OP:

On current form, Alexis wouldn't get into any of the other top 6 XIs with the exception of Arsenal. And DDG as good as he is wouldn't improve City or Pool's XI as their current keepers suit their styles better.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Why would Smalling still get into the Arsenal team? Because a completely different manager wanted (allegedly) him. Doubt many / if any Arsenal fans would want him.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The problem with this is that we're assuming our players current form under Mourinho would be the same under different managers. On their CURRENT form the OP isn't too far off but this is a pointless exercise imo. We have players with ability. For whatever reason we are under performing both individually and collectively. It doesn't matter who we sign if the environment is not right. Other clubs get more out of their signings than us.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head with this.

 

[ypsipeos]

I don't get it. If our players don't suit in Klopp's style , it means that Liverpool is a better team player by player? Is this what you mean? Cause that's what you have just wrote.

Leap of logic!

Valencia - Arsenal, Chelsea, maybe Liverpool and Spurs

Valencia is finished.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Why would Smalling still get into the Arsenal team? Because a completely different manager wanted (allegedly) him. Doubt many / if any Arsenal fans would want him.

Watched Arsenal this season? Heck Bailly and Lindelof would get in the team.

 

[peridigm]

Why has top 6 become the new top 4? When you talk about other leagues, do you include the 5th and 6th team in those discussions?
A better way to word it would be if any of our players were for sale, which top 4 club would buy them?

DDG and Pogba would be 100% for me. Anyone else would be backup.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Watched Arsenal this season? Heck Bailly and Lindelof would get in the team.

True, I suppose.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

My assessment as follows:

DDG: Arsenal, Spurs, City, Chelsea, Liverpool
Shaw: Arsenal, Spurs
Smalling: Arsenal
Matic: Arsenal
Pogba: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea
Lingard: Arsenal
Lukaku: Chelsea
Rashford: Arsenal
Alexis: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool

Looking at the set-ups, style of play, managers, etc in the other 5 teams, I reckon that’s about the level our current players are at.

Alexis is difficult to value, looking at his dip in form since he joined us, however I still believe he’s class and would get into those teams.

As good as Pogba can be, I can’t see him getting into that City midfield and I don’t think he would suit Klopp at Liverpool.

With that in mind (if anyone thinks roughly the same as I do), there are at least 4 teams better than we are, player for player.

We can press these teams as much as we want but we won’t have anything to show for it as we are lacking quality in too many key positions. That’s why we weren’t 3 up at half time against Spurs and the reason why they could come out in the 2nd half and batter us.

Reality check!

Genuinely stopped reading after that

 

[Rolaholic]

It's pretty ridiculous to suggest Pogba wouldn't get into this Liverpool side. He's several levels above a player like Wijnaldum who is currently doing a phenomenal job for us, so I'm sure Klopp would fit him right into our midfield and he could be extraordinary.

Apart from that, I'm also convinced (Arsenal) Alexis could do a similar job to Mane for us, you won't convince me he lost all his qualities when he joined United. It's about the system, right fit and the coaching of players, you guys have plenty of quality throughout your squad but it just doesn't show on the pitch for one reason or another.

I'd also take Shaw who's been very good this season if it wasn't for Robertson being such a beast on our left wing. Maybe Matic as well.

Certain fans have started to turn on him so of course now that means he's shit all of a sudden

He'd get in each squad bar maybe City. DDG and Alexis would likely get in each squad too

 

[Canagel]

Why pointless? Either you think we have the quality already but we aren't getting the right pay off because of other factors. Or: what we are seeing is what we will get and we can't expect more. If it's the latter then we need to spend. If you think it's the first scenario then down to the manager, coaching staff, and playing system.

The first scenario of course. I do believe we have quality but nothing is working under the current management which is why it's pointless to compare their form at United and use it to judge them against players from other teams.
Pogba of France gets into any team in the world. Pogba of United doesn't get into the best teams.
Martial under LVG can play for any team in the PL. Current Martial no.
Lindelof was calm and composed for Sweden. Why is he a bag of nerves for us?
Alexis Sanchez was the best striker in the PL a few years ago. He might be declining but I'm certain he's better than what he's currently showing.
It doesn't make sense to me that we have so many 'poor' players yet finish 2nd ahead of teams that some of these 'poor' players can't play for.

 

[Infra-red]

I don't think very many of the players have performed significantly below their level during Mourinho's tenure (Pogba, arguably Martial, Sanchez, assuming his legs haven't gone). A few have exceeded expectations (Young, Lingard, Valencia, Fellaini), the rest have been about par.

I don't think that Zidane, for example, would get much more out of Smalling, Rojo, Jones, Lindelof, Darmian, Shaw (or Young, Lingard, Valencia, Fellaini) - they're just not very good.

 

[SpyLuke10]

I almost think the discussion should be changed to other PL "top 5" cos most are getting into Arsenal's team.

I think we have players that all of the other "top 6" would like to have. De Gea, Bailly, Shaw the last 3 games, Matic, Pogba, Fred, Martial, Lingard, Lukaku, etc. To clarify, City would like to have Fred but he wouldn't start for them, same goes for Lingard. But they'd definitely like to have those in the squad I think.

 

[fellaini's barber]

So many undercover Jose apologist threads

 

[Infra-red]

So many undercover Jose apologist threads

Mourinho is well past his best.

The current squad is not fit for purpose.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Woziak]

I don't think very many of the players have performed significantly below their level during Mourinho's tenure (Pogba, arguably Martial, Sanchez, assuming his legs haven't gone). A few have exceeded expectations (Young, Lingard, Valencia, Fellaini), the rest have been about par.

I don't think that Zidane, for example, would get much more out of Smalling, Rojo, Jones, Lindelof, Darmian, Shaw (or Young, Lingard, Valencia, Fellaini) - they're just not very good.

No but Zidane might attract much better players who want to play for him ?

 

[Canagel]

So many undercover Jose apologist threads

It's funny this thread didn't exist when we were beating other top sides last season. Suddenly a few bad results and some players were never that good to begin with and others weren't even 'Jose' signings.

 

[Massive Spanner]

this squad finished above all but one of those teams last season and now apparently most of our players wouldn't get anywhere near their squads.

can't make this shit up.

 

[TheReligion]

Are we talking first 11's? If so then De Gea as great as he is wouldn't be ahead of Ederson or Alisson as his distribution simply isn't good enough and doesn't fit the styles of both mentioned teams.

Not too sure that Shaw would be in any of these first 11s either given how terrible he's been, 3 games doesn't change his history. Although hopefully he's coming back into some form this season.

This is why is always silly doing these things. De Gea doesn't have the distribution of Ederson or Alisson but is the better keeper. That said Pep and Klopp value the distribution more so would not take De Gea.

It's a minefield and depends on a number of factors.

 

[hellohello]

Its very tempting to think this way, but we should not think only as 'how good the player is' but rather 'how well is the player performing'. And player performances has a lot more nuances than just how good the player is. All players have strengths and weaknesses, and if they play in a system that plays to their strengths they would look better. If a team know the system and how to make each other look good, with an overall strategy then the players play better.

 

[Fujiland]

My assessment as follows:

DDG: Arsenal, Spurs, City, Chelsea, Liverpool
Shaw: Arsenal, Spurs
Smalling: Arsenal
Matic: Arsenal
Pogba: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea
Lingard: Arsenal
Lukaku: Chelsea
Rashford: Arsenal
Alexis: Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool

Looking at the set-ups, style of play, managers, etc in the other 5 teams, I reckon that’s about the level our current players are at.

Alexis is difficult to value, looking at his dip in form since he joined us, however I still believe he’s class and would get into those teams.

As good as Pogba can be, I can’t see him getting into that City midfield and I don’t think he would suit Klopp at Liverpool.

With that in mind (if anyone thinks roughly the same as I do), there are at least 4 teams better than we are, player for player.

We can press these teams as much as we want but we won’t have anything to show for it as we are lacking quality in too many key positions. That’s why we weren’t 3 up at half time against Spurs and the reason why they could come out in the 2nd half and batter us.

Reality check!

What is the point? What are you trying to prove? We have a terrible squad and awesome manager? Let me use Chelsea as an example to see any logic in your post.

How many players on 15-16 Chelsea team would get into top 6? then 16-17 manager changed with almost same squad and won champion, same question: how many players on 16-17 Chelsea team would play other top 6? again, moving to 2017-1018, almost same team, but
how many players would play for the other top 6? now new season with a new manager, what do you think about their current team?

So managers do make difference. Some can make average players overachieve, some can make great players look average. straight up question: when last season finished do you want have United team or Chelsea team then?

 

[Bobski]

Isn't it strange how Lingard for example looks a far better player than Ali when taken out of a club environment and plays internationally?

Almost as if coaching, team chemistry and actual structure matters and it isn't all about who can spend the most.

Amazing how the goalposts have moved from the dying days of LVG. I wasn't a fan but so many of the arguments were based in how little he was doing with the resources he had, not just in money but in quality of player available. Now we have Mou fans tripping over themselves to demand expectations be lowered after spending £400 million and talking up all our competition. Liverpool got to a CL final with Lovren Karius, Henderson, Milner, Wijnaldum all featuring heavily. Wake up, it is not asking too much after 2 years for some sort of cohesive structured team to have emerged, and that chaotic mess on Monday night is the result of that lack.

Players look better when they understand and are confident in the system/style they are trying to play. Utd don't have one and there has barely been a player under Mourinho who has played to the standards you would expect from them.