Paul Pogba - Juventus player

Remember the geese

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
6,511
Location
Northampton
If you look at the whole package, you’ll realise Rashford offers next to nothing when he’s not in one of his 10-15 games per season hot streak.

And it’s the same with Pogba, they can look great on their day, and absolute garbage when they’re not in form. The biggest problem is that they’re far more often out of form than in form. Trying to argue otherwise is insane.
If you can't accept that Rashford has been one of our best players since his debut, then that is on you.
 

zaafi

New Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
3,373
Location
Oslo, Norway
He couldn't lace Zlatan shoes. To even put them in same sentence is laughable.

Pogba was very good at one thing. That was promoting him self on social media. Just like Lingard tried. As a football player, he was average. If even that. 1 good game, 20 bad games. 1 good season, 7 bad seasons.
Silly post. Why could you not put them in the same sentence, and why is it laughable? Pogba is a world cup winner, being one of their best players and playing a huge role. If you think his football abilities are average, then you don't really know much about football. Putting up attacking midfielder numbers as a deep lying playmaker is not as bad as you make it out to be (particularly when you understand that he isn't a deep lying playmaker, and we should not have played him as one).
 

Scandi Red

Hates Music.
Joined
Sep 25, 2022
Messages
4,274
60 pages on player who left more than a year ago and has been injured most of that time? Even with the failed drug test topic that's a lot!
 

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
13,887
He couldn't lace Zlatan shoes. To even put them in same sentence is laughable.

Pogba was very good at one thing. That was promoting him self on social media. Just like Lingard tried. As a football player, he was average. If even that. 1 good game, 20 bad games. 1 good season, 7 bad seasons.
He did while they were here. And he was a better player for us than Zlatan was.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,523
Silly post. Why could you not put them in the same sentence, and why is it laughable? Pogba is a world cup winner, being one of their best players and playing a huge role. If you think his football abilities are average, then you don't really know much about football. Putting up attacking midfielder numbers as a deep lying playmaker is not as bad as you make it out to be (particularly when you understand that he isn't a deep lying playmaker, and we should not have played him as one).
He wasn't one of their best players, and for the most part didn't play a bit role. He went missing for quite a lot of that world cup playing for the big favourite.
 

Remember the geese

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
6,511
Location
Northampton
He went missing for quite a lot of that world cup playing for the big favourite.
Pogba was France's best player during their World Cup win.
What does "one of the best" even mean? It's vague.
From 2016-2023, Rashford has been one of United's best players. Arguably the best, though certainly top 3. De Gea was very good until 2018. Pogba until 2019. Bruno and Shaw have been the only other players of any real note.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,523
Pogba was France's best player during their World Cup win.

From 2016-2023, Rashford has been one of United's best players. Arguably the best, though certainly top 2. De Gea was very good until 2018. Pogba until 2019. Bruno and Shaw have been the only other players of any real note.
Pogba was nowhere near their best player, during the world cup he was criticised and there was talk about him being dropped. The final was described as him proving people wrong since the rest of the tournament was not good for him.

De Gea was better, Pogba was better, ibrahimovic, Herrera, Carrick, Shaw, Bruno, Martinez, Varane, Greenwood, Garnacho have all been better than him off the top of my head.
 

Oldyella

Full Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Messages
5,692
Pogba was nowhere near their best player, during the world cup he was criticised and there was talk about him being dropped. The final was described as him proving people wrong since the rest of the tournament was not good for him.

De Gea was better, Pogba was better, ibrahimovic, Herrera, Carrick, Shaw, Bruno, Martinez, Varane, Greenwood, Garnacho have all been better than him off the top of my head.
Martinez wasn't even there at the same time was he?
 

Remember the geese

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
6,511
Location
Northampton
Pogba was nowhere near their best player, during the world cup he was criticised and there was talk about him being dropped. The final was described as him proving people wrong since the rest of the tournament was not good for him.

De Gea was better, Pogba was better, ibrahimovic, Herrera, Carrick, Shaw, Bruno, Martinez, Varane, Greenwood, Garnacho have all been better than him off the top of my head.
You are completely misremembering with regards to Pogba. There was some talk prior to the tournament of him being dropped for Payet. Yet he wasn't and he was their best player throughout the competition.

This is just flat out wrong. What on Earth has Garnacho done in his very short time that outweighs 7 years of Rashford? Some of those other players have only had one good season here.
 

zaafi

New Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
3,373
Location
Oslo, Norway
He wasn't one of their best players, and for the most part didn't play a bit role. He went missing for quite a lot of that world cup playing for the big favourite.
You're misremembering. He was one of their best players by far, and France was not the big favourite.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
33,571
Does he still get paid a salary being banned from playing?
He's almost certainly in gross misconduct of his contract, so Juventus don't have to pay him anything. I've just googled it too and it looks like he's entitled to the minimum the football's union offers (which is allegedly a measly £2k a month). Unless he's miraculously found innocent, he won't be getting any further monies than that.
 

Perro Caca

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 8, 2023
Messages
21
I think the people who idolise Pogba on here are clearly young fans who missed our peak years under Ferguson. I mean, if playing one world class pass every 10 games impresses you, imagine what you'd be like if you saw Paul Scholes.
Pogba wasn't playing for a league one team, he was in the top 4-6 clubs in the country, and he couldn't produce. Shame, but we move on.
 

Mercurial

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
2,364
He's almost certainly in gross misconduct of his contract, so Juventus don't have to pay him anything. I've just googled it too and it looks like he's entitled to the minimum the football's union offers (which is allegedly a measly £2k a month). Unless he's miraculously found innocent, he won't be getting any further monies than that.
Makes sense if there is a misconduct section in there on these kind of contracts. That 2k is pocket change for him, but perhaps important for the lesser players I guess.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

Full Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
1,811
I think the people who idolise Pogba on here are clearly young fans who missed our peak years under Ferguson. I mean, if playing one world class pass every 10 games impresses you, imagine what you'd be like if you saw Paul Scholes.
Pogba wasn't playing for a league one team, he was in the top 4-6 clubs in the country, and he couldn't produce. Shame, but we move on.
This. All the talk about how he needed two DMs behind him to unlock him was exhausting. Plus, Raiola being his mouthpiece and speaking to the press about how Pogba was likely to leave United on the eve before some of our most important games, really left a sour taste in the mouth.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,726
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
If you look at the whole package, you’ll realise Rashford offers next to nothing when he’s not in one of his 10-15 games per season hot streak.

And it’s the same with Pogba, they can look great on their day, and absolute garbage when they’re not in form. The biggest problem is that they’re far more often out of form than in form. Trying to argue otherwise is insane.
I think that's a bit harsh on Pogba pre-injuries. His inconsistency during his first four years here was significantly exaggerated. I'm certainly not saying he wasn't inconsistently (he definitely was), but the sad thing was that he was actually our most consistent player during those four years. Admittedly that was more about how bad everyone else was, but that doesn't stop it being true. The combination of everyone simply having higher expectations on him than anyone else plus some of the over-the-top media criticism just quite unfairly made him the face of the issues.

It is more true about Rashford seeing as the only times he's really performed well as an all-round player was for half a season in 19/20 and half a season in 22/23. However, to give him some credit he normally has the ability to still score or assist a decent amount of goals even during those periods he hasn't been playing well. The exceptions of course being 21/22 and so far this season.
 

TsuWave

Full Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
13,925
He wasn't one of their best players, and for the most part didn't play a bit role. He went missing for quite a lot of that world cup playing for the big favourite.
Pogba was nowhere near their best player, during the world cup he was criticised and there was talk about him being dropped. The final was described as him proving people wrong since the rest of the tournament was not good for him.
People just lie on Pogba's name like it's a full-time job. We kept the files though:






https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-to-dominator-paul-pogbas-world-cup-evolution

Yes, by a substantial amount of metrics, he was indeed France's best player at the world cup. Reality > fanfiction.
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,523
People just lie on Pogba's name like it's a full-time job. We kept the files though:






https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-to-dominator-paul-pogbas-world-cup-evolution

Yes, by a substantial amount of metrics, he was indeed France's best player at the world cup. Reality > fanfiction.
That doesn't make much sense, a player in his position should have those type of stats, especially when playing for by far the best team.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-pogba-manchseter-united-record-a8448786.html
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,523
You are completely misremembering with regards to Pogba. There was some talk prior to the tournament of him being dropped for Payet. Yet he wasn't and he was their best player throughout the competition.

This is just flat out wrong. What on Earth has Garnacho done in his very short time that outweighs 7 years of Rashford? Some of those other players have only had one good season here.
Garnacho lately has literally pushed Rashford out of his best position.
 

SalfordRed18

Netflix and avocado, no chill
Joined
Sep 24, 2012
Messages
13,789
Location
Salford
Supports
Ashwood City FC

Stobzilla

Official Team Perv
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
21,838
Location
Grove Street, home.
Talented player, their best form was for Juventus next to Pirlo and Marchisio and then with France with Kante and Matuidi.

No player can do it by themselves, but no player needed a perfect set-up around them quite as obviously as Pogba did.
 

TsuWave

Full Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
13,925
That doesn't make much sense, a player in his position should have those type of stats, especially when playing for by far the best team.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-pogba-manchseter-united-record-a8448786.html
You need to find shame and make it a cornerstone in your life. Shameless goalpost moving is not a good look in adults. You are wrong and plenty have told you so, it’s OK not to like him, think he underperformed at United or even think he wasn’t a good player, he however was one of/the best player for France at the World Cup - stats, performances and key moments corroborate this.

Your assertions went from:

- He wasn't one of their best players
- Pogba was nowhere near their best player

to

- a player in his position should have those type of stats

Despite looking at graphs/articles showing you no one else performed at that level.

I get people struggle with saying “ I’m wrong” in a public setting, but at least have the grace to say I misremembered it instead of whatever it is you’re doing here.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,044
Location
Flagg
You are completely misremembering with regards to Pogba. There was some talk prior to the tournament of him being dropped for Payet. Yet he wasn't and he was their best player throughout the competition.

This is just flat out wrong. What on Earth has Garnacho done in his very short time that outweighs 7 years of Rashford? Some of those other players have only had one good season here.
He definitely wasn't their best player "throughout the competition". He didn't show up until the knockout games and considering this is the same tournament where Mbappe became a star it's rather odd to claim Pogba was the best player in the same team.

I do remember him being very good in the knockout rounds but I also don't get how you can base a player's pedigree off 4 games. He certainly could have been a great player if he could have stayed focused on being one for more than about 5 minutes, but world cup Pogba on average showed up about once every 2 months.

The idea he was a better player for United than Zlatan is just laughable. Maybe if you condensed all of Pogba's good performances for United over 5 years into one season, and ignored/deleted the 3x as many bad ones, you'd get close to it being a fair shout, but then that's the same as pretending you're rich by adding up your life earnings and just not counting any time you have to spend money. It's a nice lie but unfortunately it probably isn't going to help you get a mortgage.

Zlatan was instrumental in United's only remotely successful season post SAF. Pogba was instrumental in getting 2 managers the sack, and arguably his most positive contribution was causing Graem Souness to come across as suspiciously racist.
 

Pogue Mahone

Just can't shake shake shake it off.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
132,824
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
He definitely wasn't their best player "throughout the competition". He didn't show up until the knockout games and considering this is the same tournament where Mbappe became a star it's rather odd to claim Pogba was the best player in the same team.

I do remember him being very good in the knockout rounds but I also don't get how you can base a player's pedigree off 4 games. He certainly could have been a great player if he could have stayed focused on being one for more than about 5 minutes, but world cup Pogba on average showed up about once every 2 months.

The idea he was a better player for United than Zlatan is just laughable. Maybe if you condensed all of Pogba's good performances for United over 5 years into one season, and ignored/deleted the 3x as many bad ones, you'd get close to it being a fair shout, but then that's the same as pretending you're rich by adding up your life earnings and just not counting any time you have to spend money. It's a nice lie but unfortunately it probably isn't going to help you get a mortgage.

Zlatan was instrumental in United's only remotely successful season post SAF. Pogba was instrumental in getting 2 managers the sack, and arguably his most positive contribution was causing Graem Souness to come across as suspiciously racist.
Obviously, it pains me to agree with Jose Mourinho about anything but I do think he was on to something about how you’ll only ever get the best of Pogba at a tournament like the World Cup. No distractions and only needing to stay fully focused and motivated for a short period of time. Very different to the level of professionalism needed to be an asset for his club over a long season.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,044
Location
Flagg
Obviously, it pains me to agree with Jose Mourinho about anything but I do think he was on to something about how you’ll only ever get the best of Pogba at a tournament like the World Cup. No distractions and only needing to stay fully focused and motivated for a short period of time. Very different to the level of professionalism needed to be an asset for his club over a long season.
Even at that world cup he decided to take the entire team out for a hair cut or something equally ridiculous if I remember rightly.

I don't think our managers or a lot of our fans ever really got their head around what Paul Pogba was or how he fits into a team, which imo is as a luxury player/someone who can offer a bit extra that other players can't, as opposed to some kind of talisman or driving force to build a team around. Or maybe they did get their head around it but had one hand tied by the club.

I thought Mourinho was often right about things tbh, the problem was 90% of it was just him explaining why we were shite, so not really all that useful when he was the manager.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
95,458
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
Even at that world cup he decided to take the entire team out for a hair cut or something equally ridiculous if I remember rightly.

I don't think our managers or a lot of our fans ever really got their head around what Paul Pogba was or how he fits into a team, which imo is as a luxury player/someone who can offer a bit extra that other players can't, as opposed to some kind of talisman or driving force to build a team around. Or maybe they did get their head around it but had one hand tied by the club.

I thought Mourinho was often right about things tbh, the problem was 90% of it was just him explaining why we were shite, so not really all that useful when he was the manager.
That's not an issue at all
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,726
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
The idea he was a better player for United than Zlatan is just laughable. Maybe if you condensed all of Pogba's good performances for United over 5 years into one season, and ignored/deleted the 3x as many bad ones, you'd get close to it being a fair shout, but then that's the same as pretending you're rich by adding up your life earnings and just not counting any time you have to spend money. It's a nice lie but unfortunately it probably isn't going to help you get a mortgage.

Zlatan was instrumental in United's only remotely successful season post SAF. Pogba was instrumental in getting 2 managers the sack, and arguably his most positive contribution was causing Graem Souness to come across as suspiciously racist.
Redcafe's average player rating in 16/17:
Pogba 6.3
Zlatan 6.2

Zlatan's 16/17 is as overrated these days as Pogba's is underrated. In reality they both had periods during the year where they struggled, but overall they were both fairly good without being great. There was very little between them either way. Pogba then continued at a similar level for another three seasons before then completely falling apart in his last two seasons here.
 

kouroux

45k posts to finally achieve this tagline
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
95,458
Location
Djibouti (La terre des braves)
Redcafe's average player rating in 16/17:
Pogba 6.3
Zlatan 6.2

Zlatan's 16/17 is as overrated these days as Pogba's is underrated. In reality they both had periods during the year where they struggled, but overall they were both fairly good without being great. There was very little between them either way. Pogba then continued at a similar level for another three seasons before then completely falling apart in his last two seasons here.
There is always that youtube compilation of all the assists Pogba could have had if Zlatan and Co finished better
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,044
Location
Flagg
Redcafe's average player rating in 16/17:
Pogba 6.3
Zlatan 6.2

Zlatan's 16/17 is as overrated these days as Pogba's is underrated. In reality they both had periods during the year where they struggled, but overall they were both fairly good without being great. There was very little between them either way. Pogba then continued at a similar level for another three seasons before then completely falling apart in his last two seasons here.
Give it up mate. Pogba underrated is a new one even on here. He's probably the most overated player ever on redcafe (With the exception of nearly every player the caf compares Rashford to).

He definitely didn't continue at a similar level for another 3 years. He was good for about the first 2 games of the next season. By half way through he was bad enough for there to be mammoth threads on here blaming his crapness on Mourinho playing him in slightly the wrong part of the midfield. Then the season after his behaving like a bellend was instrumental in us being absolutely terrible and sacking our manager.

Apart from the constant being a liability, lack of ability to concentrate, repeated using of social media to sh*t stir within his own club, voodoo cursing of own team mates, failed drugs tests, and association with violent criminal gangs, I guess he was a decent player.
 

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
25,964
Location
bin
Yeah I thought that was a bit of a weird thing to point out. Hair has been an important thing for him and it might have been a good team-bonding moment.
Yeah. I would rather he takes the team out for something enjoyable like getting haircuts than, for example, going out on the piss.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,726
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
Give it up mate. Pogba underrated is a new one even on here. He's probably the most overated player ever on redcafe (With the exception of nearly every player the caf compares Rashford to).

He definitely didn't continue at a similar level for another 3 years. He was good for about the first 2 games of the next season. By half way through he was bad enough for there to be mammoth threads on here blaming his crapness on Mourinho playing him in slightly the wrong part of the midfield. Then the season after his behaving like a bellend was instrumental in us being absolutely terrible and sacking our manager.

Apart from the constant being a liability, lack of ability to concentrate, repeated using of social media to sh*t stir within his own club, voodoo cursing of own team mates, failed drugs tests, and association with violent criminal gangs, I guess he was a decent player.
Pogba's performances are underrated, at least in his first four seasons. As seen by you saying he had three times the amount of bad matches as good, and that you'd have to take all of his good performances over five years to get close to how Zlatan was in 16/17. In reality he had a similar amount of good and bad matches, which obviously is nowhere near good enough but name one player in the squad who had a higher percentage of good during that period. Probably De Gea, but even he was only good for 16/17 and 17/18, before being average for most of 18/19 then being absolutely terrible at the end of that season and all of 19/20.

Pogba was our best player in the first four months before Mourinho got sacked in 18/19. He was shit for two of those months, but he was also good for two months which was better than any other player in the team. Shaw and Martial both had one good month each, but literally every other player in the squad was shit for the entire four months. The likes of Lukaku and Matic were unbelievably bad the entire time. During those two bad months Pogba did have about three matches where he was disgraceful and obviously couldn't be bothered, and he absolutely should get criticised for those. But far too many people pretend he was like that the entire season which is utterly wrong. He played well more than any other player in the squad and was one of the two players (alongside Martial) who kept Mourinho in the job as long as he was, yet somehow he was the face of getting him sacked. In reality Mourinho got himself sacked by being a toxic piece of shit who was more interested in making excuses and throwing others under the bus than he was in actually getting the team performing.
 

In Rainbows

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
6,713
Give it up mate. Pogba underrated is a new one even on here. He's probably the most overated player ever on redcafe (With the exception of nearly every player the caf compares Rashford to).

He definitely didn't continue at a similar level for another 3 years. He was good for about the first 2 games of the next season. By half way through he was bad enough for there to be mammoth threads on here blaming his crapness on Mourinho playing him in slightly the wrong part of the midfield. Then the season after his behaving like a bellend was instrumental in us being absolutely terrible and sacking our manager.

Apart from the constant being a liability, lack of ability to concentrate, repeated using of social media to sh*t stir within his own club, voodoo cursing of own team mates, failed drugs tests, and association with violent criminal gangs, I guess he was a decent player.
You're not going to win this man.

At the time, many of us were complaining about how many chances Zlatan was missing from Pogba's passes. Pogba was never overrated on here. People understood he was one of our better players, but many thought he should carry us because of his price tag. And maybe not even carry, but they expected more consistency. That's fair enough, but regardless of expectations he was still one of our better players when he actually did play over the course of a season. Other players that are not as talented, didn't get as much slack because they're not as talented, didn't cost much, and weren't being payed as much. However, that's a separate discussion from who is objectively putting in better performances, not just a who is playing better relative to price tag, wages, and talent.
 

Krakenzero

Full Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Messages
676
Supports
Santiago Wanderers
Well, "Pogba best player in France's WC championship" is a new one. I'll go by standard FIFA stats and awards:

France's POTM in that WC: Griezmann (3), Mbappé (2), Kante, Umtiti.
Ballon D' Bronze: Griezmann.
FIFA youth player award: Mbappé.
Silver boot: Griezmann.
Goal of the tournament: Pavard.
Team of the tournament: Varane, Mbappé.
 

ayushreddevil9

Foootball hinders the adrenaline of transfers.
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Messages
10,142
You're not going to win this man.

At the time, many of us were complaining about how many chances Zlatan was missing from Pogba's passes. Pogba was never overrated on here. People understood he was one of our better players, but many thought he should carry us because of his price tag. And maybe not even carry, but they expected more consistency. That's fair enough, but regardless of expectations he was still one of our better players when he actually did play over the course of a season. Other players that are not as talented, didn't get as much slack because they're not as talented, didn't cost much, and weren't being payed as much. However, that's a separate discussion from who is objectively putting in better performances, not just a who is playing better relative to price tag, wages, and talent.
To add further, he was our only recognized midfield signing which was neglected for god knows how long. Schmidfield was a scam.