Paul Pogba racially abused on social media

[Skills]

You’re missing three point massively with the Lukaku thing, it wasn’t so much the fact the song was created, it was more that a significant number took umbrage when it was pointed out that the song has racial connotations that will offend some. It definitely made me look at our fans in a different light. We criticise Liverpool fans for their reaction to the Suarez/ Evra incident but I’m not convinced united fans would have behaved any different if roles were reversed. Calling my comment disingenuous is an example of the exact issue I have with a large portion of football fans, no one suggested that that it’s the same thing as hating black people but as soon as the issue is raised, you start digging your heals in and getting defensive. Until that attitude changes then things are only going to get worse as the only way to eradicate racism is through education.

Ours are far worse. This abuse is aimed at our own players, can't imagine how bad it would be if they aimed it at a rival player.

 

[mancan92]

There's a really interesting thing that happens in discussions, I think, where people become exasperated at each other because they are talking at crossed purposes.

When I talk about racism what I mean is the myriad factors that mean that the entire society I live in is based on white supremacist principles. It's the small decisions, organisational and institutional norms; the traditions, practices and principles that bake inequality into almost every facet of social, cultural and political life. In this sense I really mean structural racism - the kind of racism that everyone can (and often will) contribute to without necessarily holding any explicit prejudice in their beliefs. The kind of racism you can contribute to by simply not recognising it exists (and, if you're white, that you benefit from it at the expense of others).

When other people talk about racism they have a much more reductionist view of it. They define it simply as "hating someone because of the colour of their skin" or "acting in a way that is consciously discriminatory due to someone's race." Now, ignoring the argument over which definition is preferable or "right" (because it's the one I use. Everything I think is right. Always). This means that when two people with those two understandings of the word speak to each other they can end up becoming very quickly exasperated with each other because they can't understand where the other one is starting.

Take this thread. There are those that will see Gary Neville's comments as being based in the structural racism that demands different expectations from players of colour, or players from overseas, or players from a religious minority, and want to discuss that issue and unpack the norms that create that situation. Others will read that as an accusation that Neville holds some malicious feeling towards minorities. Crossed wires. Inevitable disagreement.

A good example of this is to ask the question "Is it possible for a white person to experience racism in the UK today?" To me, the answer is obviously no. A white person cannot experience the reality of existing within a society where they are consistently and systematically disadvantaged by their race. They might experience similar discrimination due to class, gender, sexuality, age etc. (intersectionality is complex, y'all!) but the specific experience of structural racism is owned and defined by racial minority groups that suffer due to it. Other people would think of an example where a white person might be discriminated against or even attacked because of their race in the UK and would claim that of course this means that person has experienced racism. They would find my assertion that it's impossible for a white person to experience racism to be basically bizarre and ludicrous. We'd talk at crossed purposes and both end up thinking the other one super weird.

Anyway. Just a thought.

Wonderful Post.

I've spent far too long explaining this to people in the UK. Racism is not simply shouting the N word at someone.

 

[Fracture90]

Racists are the worst scum.

 

[Rolaholic]

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Glad the players and club seem to have each others back moreso than many fans

 

[SalfordRed18]

Neville absolute has a part to play, his criticism of Pogba was extremely over the top and aggressive. Sky stoke this fire for views and publicity, for me they are also culpable.

Neville made them post racist vile? Can you not see how this doesn't make any sense at all?

 

[Rob Bowman]

Racism is just ignorance.

Go join the Army like I did and be surrounded by various people of various cultures and religions. When you have to put your life in another's care you get a measure of that person. Realize great people come from all cultures and religions. Realize some scumbags come from all religions and cultures.

Humanity is wonderful varied, beautiful and at times ugly, but learn to judge each on their own merits or faults.

Missing a pen is hardly a capital offense.

 

[Ekeke]

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Shame he didnt take the lead on the pitch and decide who should take the penalty

 

[RoyH1]

As long as social media accounts are anonymous, this kind of thing will unfortunately keep on happening.

Ask for a official picture ID when setting up a Twitter or Facebook account and watch 90% of racist vitriol disappear.

 

[Snafu17]

Shame he didnt take the lead on the pitch and decide who should take the penalty

The feck are you on about?

 

[FootyGirl88]

The feck are you on about?

He misses Smalling so he's got it in for Harry.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Shame he didnt take the lead on the pitch and decide who should take the penalty

He wanted Smalling to take it.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Shame he didnt take the lead on the pitch and decide who should take the penalty

Bet Smalling would've done that.

 

[DatIrishFella]

Its not going to stop. Doesnt matter which club, if a player of colour makes a mistake and they have social media, they'll be attacked.

Its mostly foreign/rival/troll accounts.

 

[El Zoido]

You’re missing three point massively with the Lukaku thing, it wasn’t so much the fact the song was created, it was more that a significant number took umbrage when it was pointed out that the song has racial connotations that will offend some. It definitely made me look at our fans in a different light. We criticise Liverpool fans for their reaction to the Suarez/ Evra incident but I’m not convinced united fans would have behaved any different if roles were reversed. Calling my comment disingenuous is an example of the exact issue I have with a large portion of football fans, no one suggested that that it’s the same thing as hating black people but as soon as the issue is raised, you start digging your heals in and getting defensive. Until that attitude changes then things are only going to get worse as the only way to eradicate racism is through education.

You’re essentially calling good-minded people racists though, that’s the issue. Even if it’s not directly what you’re suggesting, it’s the implication, that’s why people dig their heels in. This is when you start to lose people in the discussion because you’re picking fights with people that are on your side. Ultimately you end up having people who would fight your corner not wanting to get involved.

 

[roonster09]

Shame he didnt take the lead on the pitch and decide who should take the penalty

Smalling fans

 

[Ødegaard]

I don't really have words that would explain or give proper meaning to how sad it makes me feel that racism is still so rampant in the world, instead of trying to put words to that I'll comment on a few issues at the side:

1. I think this sort of stuff is why supporter communities need to have clear zero tolerance rules towards racism. Those who do not understand the aspects like systemic racism (very much like myself before joining the caf) need to be shown how important it is to not only look at the obvious hatred but also look at the actions and inactions that permits racism to stay and grow.

2. While I would love for people to need to identify themselves in order to get to write online I don't think it's easily implemented due to different laws and viewpoints politically around the freedoms of anonymity. I also don't think that it alone would stop people from throwing racist shit out there as there seem to be enough of blatant racism on social media where people write it with their full name in place. Laws would also need changing to make it easier to prosecute people for racism.

3. I agree with Rashford, but on a bigger scale. You don't just attack Manchester United when you are being a racist asshole. You hurt the world community by being racist at all. You are part of what takes lives and ruins them. Holding people back from being happy. And it's a damn shame.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Tbh the people blaming Gary Neville are almost as annoying as the actual bloody racist. Almost.

These people were racist before Neville's rant, and they'll be racist after. Gary Neville is not an excuse for their racist behaviour. They decided to type what they did and post it, not him. They were already that way inclined before Neville so realistically, how can you blame him?

Think people are more shocked/surprised at how much racism there still is in football, including united and are looking at someone or something to attribute blame to. Neville isn't it. Goes further than a stupid rant, goes further than football.

 

[Zelex]

You’re missing three point massively with the Lukaku thing, it wasn’t so much the fact the song was created, it was more that a significant number took umbrage when it was pointed out that the song has racial connotations that will offend some. It definitely made me look at our fans in a different light. We criticise Liverpool fans for their reaction to the Suarez/ Evra incident but I’m not convinced united fans would have behaved any different if roles were reversed. Calling my comment disingenuous is an example of the exact issue I have with a large portion of football fans, no one suggested that that it’s the same thing as hating black people but as soon as the issue is raised, you start digging your heals in and getting defensive. Until that attitude changes then things are only going to get worse as the only way to eradicate racism is through education.

I agree here. I think simple assumption most take is that "proper" Racism must have an hateful undertone, but it isn't that straightforward. People tend to think that unless the intention was to hurt someone then it can't be "racist". Probably it's put into the "ignorant" category. I would actually argue that the "ignorant" category is more of an bigger issue. It really brings about the issues of subconscious bias and social conditioning.

 

[Sultan]

Racism is just ignorance.

Go join the Army like I did and be surrounded by various people of various cultures and religions. When you have to put your life in another's care you get a measure of that person. Realize great people come from all cultures and religions. Realize some scumbags come from all religions and cultures.

Humanity is wonderful varied, beautiful and at times ugly, but learn to judge each on their own merits or faults.

Missing a pen is hardly a capital offense.

Love you, Rob!

 

[Al Capone]

Neville's rant went further than Pogba taking the penalty. He questioned his professionalism lack of respect in such an emotional manner as if he was individually responsible for the issues at United. Once Ole gave his interview he started backtracking and changed his tack.

Basically, shooting his mouth off prior to knowing the circumstances.

This is exactly it. Gary stoked the flames of a fire that was already lit last year. Gary's NOT a racist but how heavily he went in on pogba was all the fuel mindless idiots needed to launch their racist abuse.

This was a new season, a new utd and we needed all of our fans, past and present players to support every single one of those who have stayed to fight for the cause.

Singling pogba out and going to town on him for much of the analysis without the facts contributing massively to the twitter abuse. He used the word 'treachery' whilst he didn't accuse him of it the implications were there and thats all that was needed for mindless idiots to go spouting their racist views.

Gary's not infallible and as a fan and past player emotions are high straight after a game. He needs to temper his reactions, especially when he does not have the facts as they have massive consequences.

 

[K13]

I use to get annoyed when work colleagues not at my level were paid more than me because they were men. This is going back 30 odd years now. I could do nothing about my gender and it has been brilliant to watch how laws have evolved in the work place to even things out. Unfortunately there are still a few mysiogonists on twitter having their say and spreading their hate but people are now condemning them in great numbers which has helped shut them up.

It must be so many times worse to be attacked because of the colour of your skin because whilst historically females were once second class citizens, individuals with darker skin were subjected to such cruelty especially during the slave trade. I think it is right that perpetrators are subjected to the full force of the law because it is the only way you can stamp this out. By making someone accountable for the language/words they use is to educate them that civilized society will not allow such abuse to continue unchecked. Enough is enough.

 

[mancan92]

Tbh the people blaming Gary Neville are almost as annoying as the actual bloody racist. Almost.

These people were racist before Neville's rant, and they'll be racist after. Gary Neville is not an excuse for their racist behaviour. They decided to type what they did and post it, not him. They were already that way inclined before Neville so realistically, how can you blame him?

Think people are more shocked/surprised at how much racism there still is in football, including united and are looking at someone or something to attribute blame to. Neville isn't it. Goes further than a stupid rant, goes further than football.

Some of the stupiest sentences ive read in a while. There is no almost. Someone calling out someone who has in the past incited hatred towards a player is no where near actual people being racist. These kinds of posts are just beyond stupid.

 

[Sultan]

Shame he didnt take the lead on the pitch and decide who should take the penalty

He was playing his second game. Have a word with yourself.

 

[Rolaholic]

Tbh the people blaming Gary Neville are almost as annoying as the actual bloody racist. Almost.

These people were racist before Neville's rant, and they'll be racist after. Gary Neville is not an excuse for their racist behaviour. They decided to type what they did and post it, not him. They were already that way inclined before Neville so realistically, how can you blame him?

Think people are more shocked/surprised at how much racism there still is in football, including united and are looking at someone or something to attribute blame to. Neville isn't it. Goes further than a stupid rant, goes further than football.

What a load of utter rubbish,show me a single post that accuses him of racism?

You won't because there aren't any,what people are saying which seemingly keeps going over heads is that the constant scapegoating and venom spewed at Pogba provides some cover in the minds of the worst sections or the fanbase to believe they're justified in shouting whatever dross they can conjure given that someone on national television,an ex player no less, is able to rant nonstop like a madman about his own players weekly without pushback.

Either you're extremely dense or you're willfully trying to skew the discussion another direction with a proclamation like that first sentence

 

[TRUERED89]

There's a really interesting thing that happens in discussions, I think, where people become exasperated at each other because they are talking at crossed purposes.

When I talk about racism what I mean is the myriad factors that mean that the entire society I live in is based on white supremacist principles. It's the small decisions, organisational and institutional norms; the traditions, practices and principles that bake inequality into almost every facet of social, cultural and political life. In this sense I really mean structural racism - the kind of racism that everyone can (and often will) contribute to without necessarily holding any explicit prejudice in their beliefs. The kind of racism you can contribute to by simply not recognising it exists (and, if you're white, that you benefit from it at the expense of others).

When other people talk about racism they have a much more reductionist view of it. They define it simply as "hating someone because of the colour of their skin" or "acting in a way that is consciously discriminatory due to someone's race." Now, ignoring the argument over which definition is preferable or "right" (because it's the one I use. Everything I think is right. Always). This means that when two people with those two understandings of the word speak to each other they can end up becoming very quickly exasperated with each other because they can't understand where the other one is starting.

Take this thread. There are those that will see Gary Neville's comments as being based in the structural racism that demands different expectations from players of colour, or players from overseas, or players from a religious minority, and want to discuss that issue and unpack the norms that create that situation. Others will read that as an accusation that Neville holds some malicious feeling towards minorities. Crossed wires. Inevitable disagreement.

A good example of this is to ask the question "Is it possible for a white person to experience racism in the UK today?" To me, the answer is obviously no. A white person cannot experience the reality of existing within a society where they are consistently and systematically disadvantaged by their race. They might experience similar discrimination due to class, gender, sexuality, age etc. (intersectionality is complex, y'all!) but the specific experience of structural racism is owned and defined by racial minority groups that suffer due to it. Other people would think of an example where a white person might be discriminated against or even attacked because of their race in the UK and would claim that of course this means that person has experienced racism. They would find my assertion that it's impossible for a white person to experience racism to be basically bizarre and ludicrous. We'd talk at crossed purposes and both end up thinking the other one super weird.

Anyway. Just a thought.

You couldn't of said that any better.. Totally agree.

 

[OL29]

You’re essentially calling good-minded people racists though, that’s the issue. Even if it’s not directly what you’re suggesting, it’s the implication, that’s why people dig their heels in. This is when you start to lose people in the discussion because you’re picking fights with people that are on your side. Ultimately you end up having people who would fight your corner not wanting to get involved.

Show me where I called them racists, if you can’t do that three don’t even bother responding. You’re part of the problem.

 

[Canagel]

Neville's rant went further than Pogba taking the penalty. He questioned his professionalism lack of respect in such an emotional manner as if he was individually responsible for the issues at United. Once Ole gave his interview he started backtracking and changed his tack.

Basically, shooting his mouth off prior to knowing the circumstances.

Dont forget his other rant when the scheduled Adidas promotional post came up on Pauls social media after Jose got sacked. His agenda has been exposed already and backtracking is no use anymore. he could not hold himself back when the opportunity arised again.

 

[R'hllor]

fecking vile bunch of cnuts.

Not gonna go into whole GN MNF post match analysis thing as spark for some fecks to vent but i also find weird that people call that whole segment from last night a criticism, when it clearly wasnt, he was using term and whole vibe in some parts were like Pogba was accused of treason or some shit.

 

[Marcelinho87]

Absolutely shambolic fanbase ours these days, terrible.

He would be right to demand a move as he obviously can't win here... G Neville and his pathetic rants don't help the situation either.

 

[Ramshock]

I genuinely fecking hate people

 

[Inigo Montoya]

How many posters here have criticised Pogba for some rather indifferent performances?

Are they then guilty of inciting racism?

Absolute hypocrisy to blame Neville for voicing his opinion.
Racists will use any excuse to vent their vile thoughts while hiding behind their keyboards, it’s not the fault of a football pundit FFS

 

[Jim Beam]

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This man is growing on me with each passing day. And I fully agree, use verifications before signing up and then punish such morons. The only way to stop it.
In fact, as soon as you do such thing it will stop as I don't think they would be "brave" enough to write anything after.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Some of the stupiest sentences ive read in a while. There is no almost. Someone calling out someone who has in the past incited hatred towards a player is no where near actual people being racist. These kinds of posts are just beyond stupid.

Has anybody actually said Gary is a racist? Think most of us have said he is an opinionated gobsh*te who takes every opportunity when he is on Sky, note when he is on Sky, to put the boot into United. On this occasion he has hung Paul Pogba out to dry for basically something that happens pretty regularly, but if you listen to Gary it was beyond disgusting.

As people said it was a ten minute discussion and he drew it out. Unfortunately some idiots took it upon themselves to then go and racially abuse said player and some of them are thick enough to have been driven on by Gary's words.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There's far too much hate directed at players in general... i mean the shit that Young, Matic, Mata, Sanchez etc. get on here, often for barely any reason, is in itself pretty disgusting. I mean there our players for feck sake... be critical sure but it just gets way overboard at times.

And when it gets overboard then its just natural that the cesspools of the world like twitter take that further to racist/ other disgusting forms of abuse. There's far too much hate in the world, and it's pathetic.

Agreed 100% mate.

 

[Mr Anderson]

I personally would have been indifferent to Pog leaving this summer - obviously with us replacing him correctly.

But the abuse on social media by trolls, attention singers and just people a bit touched in the head are an absolute disgrace.

 

[mancan92]

How many posters here have criticised Pogba for some rather indifferent performances?

Are they then guilty of inciting racism?

Absolute hypocrisy to blame Neville for voicing his opinion.
Racists will use any excuse to vent their vile thoughts while hiding behind their keyboards, it’s not the fault of a football pundit FFS

Are you serious? Are you really acting like Neville has absolutely no voice? He has a huge platform and a huge group of people who hang on his every word.

 

[SalfordRed18]

What a load of utter rubbish,show me a single post that accuses him of racism?

You won't because there aren't any,what people are saying which seemingly keeps going over heads is that the constant scapegoating and venom spewed at Pogba provides some cover in the minds of the worst sections or the fanbase to believe they're justified in shouting whatever dross they can conjure given that someone on national television,an ex player no less, is able to rant nonstop like a madman about his own players weekly without pushback.

Either you're extremely dense or you're willfully trying to skew the discussion another direction with a proclamation like that first sentence

Where have I stated people are calling Neville racist.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Dont forget his other rant when the scheduled Adidas promotional post came up on Pauls social media after Jose got sacked. His agenda has been exposed already and backtracking is no use anymore. he could not hold himself back when the opportunity arised again.

100%. Compare this to how he would evaluate a different match or club, it's just a completely different world.

He's clearly got it in for Pogba personally. It seems he's been sucked in by the media also, I can understand why many "fans" seem to dislike him also. Everything they've read alongside the Mourinho saga has poisoned their minds to him. I've never known this situation before.

 

[Sultan]

fecking vile bunch of cnuts.

Not gonna go into whole GN MNF post match analysis thing as spark for some fecks to vent but i also find weird that people call that whole segment from last night a criticism, when it clearly wasnt, he was using term and whole vibe in some parts were like Pogba was accused of treason or some shit.

That was my problem with Gary last night. Even my 16-year-old nephew questioned his rant.

Dont forget his other rant when the scheduled Adidas promotional post came up on Pauls social media after Jose got sacked. His agenda has been exposed already and backtracking is no use anymore. he could not hold himself back when the opportunity arised again.

Thanks, forgot about that rant. He clearly thinks Pogba is a problem. It's understandable now to see why he said coaching and management was not something he would be interested in the future.

 

[mancan92]

Has anybody actually said Gary is a racist? Think most of us have said he is an opinionated gobsh*te who takes every opportunity when he is on Sky, note when he is on Sky, to put the boot into United. On this occasion he has hung Paul Pogba out to dry for basically something that happens pretty regularly, but if you listen to Gary it was beyond disgusting.

As people said it was a ten minute discussion and he drew it out. Unfortunately some idiots took it upon themselves to then go and racially abuse said player and some of them are thick enough to have been driven on by Gary's words.

Exactly the point of this discussion is that excessive hatred towards anyone especially when it comes from someone with such influence gives the biggest idiots in society a feeling of empowerment to say whatever crap they want.