Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

[UnitedSofa]

You can’t force a player to go and I’m sure we still want him to stay.

Besides if he stays that’s another 12 months of convincing him to stay

That being said, if you have to he convinced to stay, do you really want to be here? Wouldn’t it be more detrimental in the long run?

IMO him running down he’s contract is holding the club ransoms.nuts a win win for him and we lose either way!

 

[charlenefan]

Interesting how no one has backed up the Mirror's claim by now that he has rejected the contract offer

That being said no one has shot it down either

 

[He'sRaldo]

You questioned the stats provided by @hobbers, and argued that Pogba starting the game isn't the best way to judge his effect on the team because he made an impact from the bench. It's a fair point but it doesn't change the fact we're getting significantly more points when he isn't starting. It's not a hole in theory, it's a different point.

Fbref provides another angle, with "impact" calculated per 90', but including each game in which given player was on the pitch 30'+. Here you can see a summary for 2020/21 season. All those stats tell the story Pogba isn't that important for United as some might suggest.

I've seen that post of yours before, my previous point still addresses this.

The fact that Matic tops that list should already give you room for pause, especially if your conclusion is to use the list to determine the relative importance of the players based on their placement. Of course I'm going to find a statistic that claims Matic as our most influential midfielder, with Pogba being the least influential and Bruno the 2nd least, a bit suspect. And if there's no effort by you to qualify that then I'm already losing interest, because otherwise it would be my job to validate your pretty wild claim.

Point being, if you're going to use stats like that, your job isn't to use them to validate your already formed pov and leave it at that. It will always be unconvincing if you do so (except to those who already have that pov, of course).

 

[hobbers]

You can’t force a player to go and I’m sure we still want him to stay.

Besides if he stays that’s another 12 months of convincing him to stay

Doesn't work like that. There is zero chance of him signing an extension with us midway through the season without us offering him a deal with suicidal wages.

He'd sign a pre-contract with Real in January and that would be that. Our player in name only for the rest of the season.

That's also why I'm sure we don't want him to stay now. If he isn't signing a fair deal there's no club in their right mind would want him to run down his contract and leave for free. Our club may be run by idiots but even they aren't that dumb.

 

[Canagel]

16/17 - Big chances created
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/big_chance_created

https://external-preview.redd.it/dR...bp&s=e9bec995fbf603f24d85e8b866f706cd0cfa10cc

You have posted the win/loss ratio from 2/3 years ago mate... go check 2016 to current.

The stats are Factual. Trying to falsely claim he had " one purple patch" is proved wrong with the statistical evidence you were shown.

He was the most Creative player in England (most through balls) and the third highest ranked player in the Premier league statistically despite playing for the 6th best team. And in the 2017/18 season our creative stats went down badly when he wasn't playing (proved by the numbers)

And I'm not even talking about Europe where he was still good enough to be the player of the tournament in the EL 2016/17- the last relevant trophy this club has won in 8 years.

These are simple facts that cannot be argued against. Funny how he achieved all of that in " One purple patch" right ?

If ever there was a post built to cherry pick stats.

Firstly, we watch the fecking games, don't patronise us with stats from a few seasons ago to try and put things into context now. Stats alone don't tell you the whole picture but even if you wanted to look at them it's not exactly glowing one way or another as per @hobbers post

the season they were collected is irrelevant to the statement that is being refuted

 

[romufc]

The stats are Factual. Trying to falsely claim he had " one purple patch" is proved wrong with the statistical evidence you were shown.

He was the most Creative player in England (most through balls) and the third highest ranked player in the Premier league statistically despite playing for the 6th best team. And in the 2017/18 season our creative stats went down badly when he wasn't playing (proved by the numbers)

And I'm not even talking about Europe where he was still good enough to be the player of the tournament in the EL 2016/17- the last relevant trophy this club has won in 8 years.

These are simple facts that cannot be argued against. Funny how he achieved all of that in " One purple patch" right ?

Most through balls - didn't realise the meaning of most means 3rd.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_through_ball

Also in the last 2 seasons, its proved factually that the team does better without Pogba in the team than him in the team.

Well done to him, he was Europa league player of the year, lets all go celebrate that. What has he done in a Manutd shirt in the CL - yep feck all.

Even if it's not 1 purple patch, its a maximum of 2 in 5 years for a player who is paid close to 300k a week.

 

[Harry190]

PSG simply does not work for his personal brand.

 

[pocco]

Can't wait to see the back of him. We need to become a functional team again instead of trying to shoehorn him in. Our midfield will never hit full potential with him in there, he simply has too many flaws.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Good thing about this that we know it in July so that we can prepare well. But ideally would have preferred to have this next season since we already spent on Sancho.

2 MF, 1 CB and 1 RB is what we need but it does not look likely that we will get all 4 of them.

 

[ghagua]

Has Bruno? I mean he consistently is nowhere to be seen in a big game. I can’t recall one Man City like performance that Pogba had, there’s also zero trophies to show for it whilst also arguably playing in a better team.

It’s all hype but not reality. Like someone pretending we develop youth.

He is doing his bit by scoring the goals, penalties or otherwise. He can't be held responsible for the team not showing up in the finals

 

[Borys]

I've seen that post of yours before, my previous point still addresses this.

The fact that Matic tops that list should already give you room for pause, especially if your conclusion is to use the list to determine the relative importance of the players based on their placement. Of course I'm going to find a statistic that claims Matic as our most influential midfielder, with Pogba being the least influential and Bruno the 2nd least, a bit suspect. And if there's no effort by you to qualify that then I'm already losing interest, because otherwise it would be my job to validate your pretty wild claim.

Point being, if you're going to use stats like that, your job isn't to use them to validate your already formed pov and leave it at that. It will always be unconvincing if you do so (except to those who already have that pov, of course).

You got it totally wrong with "formed pov", I actually checked the stats for different reason (in one of the other threads somebody posted something about highest PPG with Fred, and I got interested in that). So firstly I checked the stats which indicate we're having pretty poor record with Pogba in the team compared to other midfielders.

There is a lot of context for that kind of stats, for example Matic only started in 12 games (although I stated multiple times during the season he's criminally underused), in other debate Telles has higher PPM than Shaw because he played against weaker opponents, Bruno played almost every game so his PPM is pretty much the same as for the team over the season. With Pogba we have a pretty decent sample od data with him and without him in the team, wouldn't you agree? Every time I try to look at the data from that perspective.
I've been accused of presenting the data without context, but I can't find any explanation for Pogba poor record last season. He wasn't even first choice midfielder against the top teams (where we played conservative and targeted goalles draw most times). So may I ask again, whoever is doubting that data may provide some argument against it?

 

[sp_107]

Two players like Saul and Camavinga maybe to replace Pogba would be smart business. Experience and one for the future.

We really need to bolster our versatile midfield options, especially if we are doing the 3 man mid this coming season and Camavinga would literally be like getting a young Pogba again. Perfect like for like.

Saul will give us the grit and ball retention abilities we should be looking at to dominate games better than we normally do.

That would be amazing, I will take

One from --Carmavinga / Bissouma / Touchameni / Brozovic

One from --Saul / Aouar / Goretzka

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Most through balls - didn't realise the meaning of most means 3rd.
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/total_through_ball

Also in the last 2 seasons, its proved factually that the team does better without Pogba in the team than him in the team.

Well done to him, he was Europa league player of the year, lets all go celebrate that. What has he done in a Manutd shirt in the CL - yep feck all.

Even if it's not 1 purple patch, its a maximum of 2 in 5 years for a player who is paid close to 300k a week.

By your logic no one in our squad has done anything in the CL considering we've been massively disappointing as a side in the UCL ever since SAF left.

And Pogba was probably our best player in the later half of the season along with Cavani and Shaw.

 

[romufc]

By your logic no one in our squad has done anything in the CL considering we've been massively disappointing as a side in the UCL ever since SAF left.

And Pogba was probably our best player in the later half of the season along with Cavani and Shaw.

That is correct. No one has done anything in the CL.

Sure, if you say so. Best player yeah.. okay.

 

[::sonny::]

Being a free agent is the new era of the transfers

Many players going to became impossible to extend (alaba, donnarumma, pogba, mbappe etc)

 

[romufc]

Being a free agent is the new era of the transfers

Many players are going to became impossible to extend (alaba, donnarumma, pogba, mbappe etc)

Its driven by the agents really. The likes of Railoa know that they get a bigger piece of the chunk if the player goes for a free or a smaller fee.

It's an agents game at the moment.

 

[JJ12]

Its driven by the agents really. The likes of Railoa know that they get a bigger piece of the chunk if the player goes for a free or a smaller fee.

It's an agents game at the moment.

Wish I could get a piece of chunk

 

[charlenefan]

Breaking on SSN - he's unlikely to sign a new contract

 

[charlenefan]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[dinostar77]

Looks like DVB will play alot more if Pogba goes. Guess Utd will concentrate on a longer term replacement for Matic / upgrade on Fred who can screen the defensive and provide the initial key pass on breakway transitions to feed the forwards.

 

[Dante]

From #pogback to #pogbosman

 

[Rojofiam]

I could understand him wanting to return to Juventus or joining Real Madrid, but PSG? I thought he wanted to leave us because he had high ambitions.

 

[Thiagoal]

With the strength of our forward players (Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani)- adding to the highly talented kids in reserve (Shoretire, Elanga, Amad, Mejbri) I wouldn’t stress too much if he were to leave. Not sure he fits in without unbalancing the team somewhat!

 

[charlenefan]

I could understand him wanting to return to Juventus or joining Real Madrid, but PSG? I thought he wanted to leave us because he had high ambitions.

even Juventus is a bit of a cop out

as someone else said let him stat pad over in the French league, he'll fit in perfectly with the likes of Neymar and Mbappe

 

[MrSingh2002]

I don't think there's a better CM in world football so it's a shame we can't do enough to convince him to stay.

I'd rather we let him go on a free next year and see what we can do this year with Sancho and potentially Varane improving the starting lineup.

Rashford Cavani Sancho
Fernandes Pogba
CDM
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
​

We're about to be one CDM away from a world class starting 11. If we let Pogba go in this window we're back to needing two world class players to make a solid starting 11 and midfield would be very short in quality again.

FML.

 

[Son]

He was sensational in my opinion.

I absolutely love Pogba’s style. Great player and he is no doubt better than who we will get in at football but…

There comes a time if we can take £55 million or so do the deal and get someone new in on a 5 year contract. Hopefully 2 midfielders instead of 1.

Even as good as he was against Switzerland attacking wise we saw some issues defensively also.

It’s about building a team that gels and I’m also a little worried about him when he gets past 30 as he has played a lot of football already. Less risky if we sell now.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Well done to him, he was Europa league player of the year, lets all go celebrate that. What has he done in a Manutd shirt in the CL - yep feck all.

Let’s sell Maguire, Shaw, Bruno & the rest of the senior squad. . .

What a stupid point to make.

 

[jymufc20]

Breaking on SSN - he's unlikely to sign a new contract

Thank god for that, get rid and get someone in that actually puts effort in 100% of the time.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Feel like he's going to bad mouth United big time when he leaves... should be interesting to hear his take on the Mou years and what he was promised when he returned to United.

 

[Zen86]

If he doesn’t want to sign a new contract then great, say you want to go to PSG and be done with it. We’ll move on and sign a player who might actually be consistently effective for us.

But he won’t do that. He’ll drag this on for weeks like usual.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't think there's a better CM in world football so it's a shame we can't do enough to convince him to stay.

I'd rather we let him go on a free next year and see what we can do this year with Sancho and potentially Varane improving the starting lineup.

Rashford Cavani Sancho
Fernandes Pogba
CDM
Shaw Maguire Varane AWB
De Gea
​

We're about to be one CDM away from a world class starting 11. If we let Pogba go in this window we're back to needing two world class players to make a solid starting 11 and midfield would be very short in quality again.

FML.

It's what happens when you take too long to rebuild. Mou's 2.5 years at Utd were just a waste of time for everyone involved.

Hopefully we don't make the same mistake again, and quickly fill whatever holes we have left. Footballers don't have unlimited time to wait around for a club to get it's shit together. And the ones who do, usually don't win much before retiring.

 

[bosskeano]

If he's not willing to sign an extension that is 350k p/w then he needs to be sold simple as that

 

[MrSingh2002]

Only a signing of Pedri who is also in his final year of his contract would make up for Pogba being allowed to leave.

Throw 200k a week Pedri's way. He can't refuse that with Barca being finished themselves.

The generals like Kroos, Thiago and Pjanic now look past their best so why not go after the brightest Barcelona starlet with big money when he has a year left on his current deal.

 

[Idxomer]

even Juventus is a bit of a cop out

as someone else said let him stat pad over in the French league, he'll fit in perfectly with the likes of Neymar and Mbappe

Two of the best players in the world?

Also, our main striker now was stat padding for seven years in that team.

 

[Rojofiam]

even Juventus is a bit of a cop out

as someone else said let him stat pad over in the French league, he'll fit in perfectly with the likes of Neymar and Mbappe

I don't agree, I like Pogba and I believe he's been frustrated ever since he returned because he loves the club but it's been a shitshow and we haven't had the chance to win the PL and CL, which is what he ultimately wants imo.

This is why I think him leaving this summer would be a terrible mistake: We're very much on an upward trajectory and have a legitimate chance to become one of the best teams in the world in the 2021/22 season and win major honours. None of Juve, RM or PSG would guarantee better chances than us for the upcoming season IMO. However, if we're still shit this season, then it would've truly been the last chance for him and could leave without any hurdles since his contract is expiring -> he would be able to pick his next club as everyone would welcome him with open arms on a free.

PS: Even though I like him, I can't be considered a huge fan of his, but still...don't compare him to that clown Neymar, please.

 

[KennyBurner]

Goretska to replace him and he is an afterthought. I believe in Murtough!

 

[Mainoldo]

He is doing his bit by scoring the goals, penalties or otherwise. He can't be held responsible for the team not showing up in the finals

Oh right.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Only a signing of Pedri who is also in his final year of his contract would make up for Pogba being allowed to leave.

Pedri has a 2 year team option on his contract....so Barca can make that 2022 expiry into 2024 at any time they wish. Although activating it without a wage bump likely wouldn't sit well with Pedri given how he's exploded this year.

Last I read Barca are offering him a big wage increase with a new contract instead of activating the option.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Pedri has a 2 year team option on his contract....so Barca can make that 2022 expiry into 2024 at any time they wish. Although activating it without a wage bump likely wouldn't sit well with Pedri given how he's exploded this year.

Last I read Barca are offering him a big wage increase with a new contract instead of activating the option.

Thanks for the reply and info. With the turmoil at Barca right now it's probably worth a big bid to tempt them into the sale.

As unlikely as they may be to accept it. They know what they have on their hands in Pedri.

 

[simonhch]

Bye bye. Can this circus finally leave town please? Get a good price for him and never think of him again. The only thing Pogba has consistently done in his United career is disappoint fans. Even when he was playing well for France, there was an element if “why can’t you do that for United?”

He’s the definition of a luxury player. You see flashes of brilliance and are left hoping he can produce that week in week out but he generally looks apathetic, and you always got the sense that he was playing for his own brand rather than the team.

I hope we never deal with that shitbag Raiola again. Not even for Haaland. PSG will be perfect for him. Lower pressure league where he can showboat all he wants and be surrounded by the arrogant glitz and glamour of Neymar and Mbappe. I’ll bet my bottom dollar he’ll have some back handed shit to talk after he’s left too.