'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

Andy_Cole

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Mourinho took Roma to a first European final in 31 yrs. Won Chelsea's first league title in 50 yrs Won Inter their first Champions League in 45 yrs. Won Madrid a Copa Del Rey after 22 yrs

Inter point is valid. The other three aren't.

Roma are in the final because it's a competition created specifically for teams that aren't good enough for the Europa League.

Chelsea won the league a couple of years after the takeover. Before that why would they be winning the league?

Madrid not winning the CdR is odd but doesn't point to Mourinho being a better manager than Pep in any way.
A Porto stat should be there too which was an insane achievement.
 

Pintu

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Because we're talking about the draw, the fact City conspired to feck things up doesn't change who they would have played and how the draw panned out.


Back on topic, I'd like to see a few better records than Peps even excluding his Barca. We're talking 1 last 16, 3 QF, 4 SF and a Final in the last 9 years. I guarantee there isn't more than a handful.

CL Stats
Pep P 148 W 93 D 29 L 26 - ppg 2.08 - Times won - 2
SAF P 194 W 105 D 50 L 39 - ppg 1.88 - Time won - 2
Ancelotti P 178 W 99 D 39 L 40 - ppg 1.89 - Times won - 3
Jose P151 W 80 D36 L 55 - ppg 1.83 - Times won - 2
Klopp P 92 W 52 D 15 L 25 - ppg 1.86 - Times won - 1 (Phenomenal considering it includes Dortmund)
Zidane P 53 W 32 D 11 L 10 - ppg 2.02 - Times won - 3

I just don't see the issue. In terms of trophies only 3 managers in football history have won the CL more times than Pep (once more). In terms of match results he's purely the best in ppg.
There is literally nothing to suggest what people say about Pep in the CL, in fact its purely untrue.
Klopp of course had dortmund... Ancelotti's record includes Napoli, and SAF's includes periods in which United was not in Europe's top 5... Guardiola has never coached a team outside the top 5 favourites of the CL.

And his record in the KO stages is a different story. And his record against clubs in Uefa's top 10 ranking is abysmal.

He took Bayern from Europe's undisputed trone and in no time made them a sparring partner for Spanish opposition.

His win percentage in the KO stage for Bayern is among the worst any manager has had in Bayern's recent history. He established the record 5-0 loss to Ancelotti's Madrid, the worst Bayern has ever endured in a 2 legs European tie. It came only 12 months after Heynkes' Bayern destroyed Messi's 100 points Barça (7-0) and won the CL.
 
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mu4c_20le

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His win percentage in the KO stage for Bayern is the worst any manager has had in Bayern's recent history. He established the record 5-0 loss to Ancelotti's Madrid, the worst Bayern has ever endured in a 2 legs European tie. It came only 12 months after Heynkes' Bayern destroyed Messi's 100 points Barça (7-0) and won the CL.
Agent Pep.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Odd. He left Barca in 2012 because he couldn't "motivate the players anymore" (and he was right, 100 points league in 2013 and the 2nd Treble in 2015 with different managers), but he just won't leave City. Conclusion: the salary is too damn good.
But how much more money does he truly need?
 

padr81

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Klopp of course had dortmund... Ancelotti's record includes Napoli, and SAF's includes periods in which United was not in Europe's top 5... Guardiola has never coached a team outside the top 5 favourites of the CL.

And his record in the KO stages is a different story. And his record against clubs in Uefa's top 10 ranking is abysmal.

He took Bayern from Europe's undisputed trone and in no time made them a sparring partner for Spanish opposition.

His win percentage in the KO stage for Bayern is the worst any manager has had in Bayern's recent history. He established the record 5-0 loss to Ancelotti's Madrid, the worst Bayern has ever endured in a 2 legs European tie. It came only 12 months after Heynkes' Bayern destroyed Messi's 100 points Barça (7-0) and won the CL.
Pep had a 66% win percentage at Bayern in CL knockout ties, better if done by match.
Ancelotti 50%,
Niko Kovac 0%,
LVG 60%
Heynckes Didn't do the math but I'd say over 75% at a glance.

So yeah in the 2010's only Heynckes had a better record than Pep in CL knockout at Bayer.. worst record in recent history right?
 

Pintu

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So yeah in the 2010's only Heynckes had a better record than Pep in CL knockout at Bayer.. worst record in recent history right?
If we take your ppg, Ancelotti’s record is 75% in the 90 minutes. The red card and the offside calls in extra time makes it drop… But it’s not relevant to compare a coach that only directed one season’s KO stage to one staying 3 years. Ancelotti’s Bayern was very close to defeating that 2017 Madrid. It was a big change from the way Pep’s Bayern played Madrid and Barça.

Do the math again. And don’t ignore Flick and his 90% win record.
 
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padr81

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If we take your ppg, Ancelotti’s record is 75% in the 90 minutes. The red card and the offside calls makes it drop… But it’s not relevant to compare a coach that only directed one season’s KO stage to one staying 3 years. Ancelotti’s Bayern was very close to defeating that 2017 Madrid. It was a big change from the way Pep’s Bayern played Madrid and Barça.

Do the math again. And don’t ignore Flick and his 90% win record.
How else do you compare recent history other than managers in the same decade. I only did the 2010's but yeah Flick had a phenomenal record too. My point still stands Pep's can't be the worst in recent history.
Football is decided over the tie not 90 or even 179 minutes as my team found out this week.

Ancelotti won 1 and lost 1.
You can justify it with red cards, but that's football. He played 2 ties and lost 1. He went out in the QF (something Pep never did at Bayern...)

People can bend over backwards to try and slate him, but on every metric Pep is near the top of the CL tree and in far shorter time than most. When he eventually gets his 3rd one which will likely put him either joint 2nd or joint 1st in all time wins people will still spout nonsense.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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A Porto stat should be there too which was an insane achievement.
Yes even before we get to the CL win in 2004, the UEFA Cup win in 2003 was impressive enough.

In the UK, Celtic’s ‘road to Seville’ rightly received a lot of attention at time. In terms of transfer fees, O’Neill’s Celtic team cost about twice as much money to assemble compared to Mourinho’s Porto team, and also had a much higher wage bill.
 

TwoSheds

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So if they bottle the title he's going to get the boot?
I think they'll win it but I'd definitely rather have Liverpool's fixture list personally. Newcastle at home, Wolves and West Ham away is potentially very tricky.
 

MUW4Eva

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How else do you compare recent history other than managers in the same decade. I only did the 2010's but yeah Flick had a phenomenal record too. My point still stands Pep's can't be the worst in recent history.
Football is decided over the tie not 90 or even 179 minutes as my team found out this week.

Ancelotti won 1 and lost 1.
You can justify it with red cards, but that's football. He played 2 ties and lost 1. He went out in the QF (something Pep never did at Bayern...)

People can bend over backwards to try and slate him, but on every metric Pep is near the top of the CL tree and in far shorter time than most. When he eventually gets his 3rd one which will likely put him either joint 2nd or joint 1st in all time wins people will still spout nonsense.
What makes you think it is a case of "when", rather than "if", in terms of his next Champions League win??

Where is this certainty coming from??
 

Maluco

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Yes even before we get to the CL win in 2004, the UEFA Cup win in 2003 was impressive enough.

In the UK, Celtic’s ‘road to Seville’ rightly received a lot of attention at time. In terms of transfer fees, O’Neill’s Celtic team cost about twice as much money to assemble compared to Mourinho’s Porto team, and also had a much higher wage bill.
Pep produces better football with top players, but there is no doubt about who has the most impressive achievements on their CV.
 

HairyBack23

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@MUW4Eva you've spent a lot of time in this thread arguing that Pep's tactics are outdated and that his mistake in the Madrid game was playing a half fit Walker. And it begs to question if you actually watched either of the games?

In the first leg, City's biggest weakness was not having Walker and that was as clear as daylight. Vinicius tore Stones/Fernandinho asunder. Nothing to do with tactics.

In the second leg, you claim Walker shouldn't have started despite him actually playing very well and nullifying Vinicius (which they couldn't do without him). And what happened when Walker came off? City fell apart.

Also the claims Peps tactics are outdated without even a hint as to why, is a weird hill to die on. You don't need to be a "tactical guru" to expand upon your opinion, nobody is looking for a revolutionary breakdown. Whereas refusing to expand on your opinion just makes it seem like you've nothing go back it up with and instead are just throwing out common catchphrases when it comes to discussing football managers.
 

padr81

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What makes you think it is a case of "when", rather than "if", in terms of his next Champions League win??

Where is this certainty coming from??
Because Pep only takes top job with top players and has at least 15 years left, he might never win it at City but he will win it again unless he retires early, the quality of his teams and law of averages say he will, given he consistently goes so close.
The chance he doesn't get 3rd are slimmer than the chanes he does imho. just because of the nature of where and how he works.
 

Pretzels81

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So if they bottle the title he's going to get the boot?
He'd still get another season, I'm sure of it; the board knows he's still one of the Top4 managers out there (if not him, then who? Klopp? Flick? Tuchel? Zidane? You get my point); he's surrounded by friends (Begiristain, etc) and likes the city, apparently, and the salary surely is the highest in the world right now. He won't leave, and he won't be sacked unless they end up trophyless again (meaning no PL-no UCL) in 2022-2023.
 

Loon

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Ooh, he got lovely and salty with "everyone in the country (wrong, and not just us) and the media (BBC 100%) supports Liverpool." Had a nice little dig about their Premier League history. Seems a little butt-hurt.
 

TwoSheds

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Ooh, he got lovely and salty with "everyone in the country (wrong, and not just us) and the media (BBC 100%) supports Liverpool." Had a nice little dig about their Premier League history. Seems a little butt-hurt.
If it gives them the motivation to smash Liverpool's title challenge into the dust then I'm here for it :D
 

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When Mourinho was the Chelsea manager, I seem to remember him complaining about the media love in with Liverpool, and the number of pundits who were ex-Liverpool players. Though he did it in a funny way.

In terms of Pep at City, while I agree that he was brought in to win the Champions League, I'll expand on that by saying that he was brought in to both win the Champions League and dominate domestically, so he has definitely achieved one of those objectives. While Mancini and Pellegrini previously won league titles, and they also both had by far the most expensively assembled squads in the country during their respective title winning seasons, neither them of were able to kick on and defend the title, so Guardiola has definitely made big progress there.

As I said previously though, given that they've blown yet another opportunity to win the CL, have spent insane amounts of money on transfer fees and wages for a long-time now, and the source of their funding, if they do win a 4th title in 5 years (which of course would be an impressive achievement), there will be a widespread reaction of 'meh'.
 

Pintu

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As I said previously though, given that they've blown yet another opportunity to win the CL, have spent insane amounts of money on transfer fees and wages for a long-time now, and the source of their funding, if they do win a 4th title in 5 years (which of course would be an impressive achievement), there will be a widespread reaction of 'meh'.
SAF did it 3 times already. In 2 of these 4/5, he won 3 in a row and one CL along the way.
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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SAF did it 3 times already. In 2 of these 4/5, he won 3 in a row and one CL along the way.
Yes he did, but that of course won't mean that Pep doing it (and winning his 10th league title in just 13 seasons as a manager), won't be impressive, especially given the points totals that City have accumulated (the 198 points from 2017-2019 was insanely good regardless of money spent). But there will still be a collective shrug by many people, and I can understand why.

For all the criticism of Pep's legacy in recent days, and I do think there are valid criticisms about him bombarding his players with tactical instructions in crunch games, City's tendency to concede a quick flurry of goals etc., ultimately he has followed up a hugely successful playing career in which he won multiple European trophies and a lot of league titles, with a hugely successful managerial career in which he has also multiple European trophis and even more league titles. So his overall career in football has been constant success.

Re Utd, I remember thinking that their dominance around the turn of the Millenium was pretty boring, as they backed up the treble winning season (which was exciting and dramatic) by sealing the title with 4 games to spare in 2000, and then sealing it with 5 games to spare in 2001. So it was 7 titles in 9 years, 3 in a row, and back to back one horse races / processions. When they won 3 titles in a row again from 2007-2009, they faced much tougher domestic competition, so that was more enjoyable.
 

horsechoker

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Wow, he's not holding back in this interview with the BBC

Oh you motherfeckers

HAHAHA
OK
Alright
I'm putting transfers on all you bitches

Huh
You think you can do this shi-
Klopp!!!
You think you can do this to ME!

You motherfeckers
Will be playing football
IN BOGNOR REGIS!
When I get finished with you!

Hoofball program lad!
23 hour lockdown!
Now I'm the man up in this piece!
You'll never see the light of-
Who the feck you think you fecking with!

I'm football!

I run shit here! You just play here!
Yeah thats right you better walk away
Go on walk away, Cause I'm gonna
burn this motherfecker down.

KING KONG AIN"T GOT SHIT ON ME!!!!
 

Dave Smith

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Even more shocking is that if the ref in the Chelsea v Barca game in 09 had only even been semi competent he would only have one CL. All the while since, he has pretty much managed the 1st-3rd favourite every year.

Tbh, whilst having a bit of a dig, he is a fantastic league manager. Gets his teams very well oiled to last a season.
 

Berbasbullet

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The reason he's going off about money is because theyre about to confirm Haaland, and money is going to come up again
 

amolbhatia50k

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The reason he's going off about money is because theyre about to confirm Haaland, and money is going to come up again
It's just because they failed to win the CL. Nothing to do with Haaland. Madrid never had to justify anything after their spending on Ronaldo Kaka and company because they have the trophies to back it up hence nobody cares.
 

MUW4Eva

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It's just because they failed to win the CL. Nothing to do with Haaland. Madrid never had to justify anything after their spending on Ronaldo Kaka and company because they have the trophies to back it up hence nobody cares.
Real Madrid don't have a super country to finance their signings, but City do, so any success that City have is just all a bit "meh", and "who really cares", as it is just so robotic in nature, and funded by a country.

People don't care about City's success as there is no flair player, nothing to get excited about.
It is just sooooo boring and monotonous.
 

stefan92

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It's just because they failed to win the CL. Nothing to do with Haaland. Madrid never had to justify anything after their spending on Ronaldo Kaka and company because they have the trophies to back it up hence nobody cares.
And the other way round, Madrid have the money because they won a lot of trophies and therefore have the status which they can leverage to make money.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Real Madrid don't have a super country to finance their signings, but City do, so any success that City have is just all a bit "meh", and "who really cares", as it is just so robotic in nature, and funded by a country.

People don't care about City's success as there is no flair player, nothing to get excited about.
It is just sooooo boring and monotonous.
That's true. Being bankrolled by a state makes everything they do hollow. But my point was specifically on the spending part (rather than source). People are questioning his spending because they still haven't cracked Europe.

But I don't think their football is boring at all. They play the best football and most exciting footy in England, for me. It's just because it's City that it feels shallow etc because of the off the pitch reasons.
 

TrebleChamp99

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I’m guessing most people watched their Match yesterday, two games to go Liverpool hot on their heels, the first and second goals go in and its more like a tennis match, the atmosphere was absolutely dead. At least when Toon get their cash injection and start buying silly and when Liverpool are gunning for things you’ll feel The momentum behind it.

I couldn’t help but think, this is one of the lifeless more boring clinical sides in premier league history. Even their side under Mancini had more passion behind it.

I’m sure its fun as a City fan but does anyone really care? Even Haaland coming in, The whole atmosphere around the singing is damp and boring.

I suppose as long as they stop the scouse were happy-ish but my word, we need someone else to come along and challenge them, hopefully us. They are killing the soul of football which is at the end of the day a real life soap opera.
 

MUW4Eva

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That's true. Being bankrolled by a state makes everything they do hollow. But my point was specifically on the spending part (rather than source). People are questioning his spending because they still haven't cracked Europe.

But I don't think their football is boring at all. They play the best football and most exciting footy in England, for me. It's just because it's City that it feels shallow etc because of the off the pitch reasons.
Best football is in no way the same as most exciting.

Where is the flair, the risks, it is football paint by numbers.
Player A moves to position A, then player B moves to position B, it works very well for them, of course it does, but in terms of pure excitement, nahh, they are probably the most boring side in the league.
Ruthless efficiency isn't exciting to watch.

Pep turns his players into robots, there is no fun, no flair.
It is why them winning all that they have is partially acceptable over Liverpool doing so (apart from it being well Liverpool) because there is a hollowness, a monotonous drone to their passing, to their goals, it all just feels empty and soulless.
Being an empty vessel for all of that oil money also plays its role, for sure, but it is the football that they play which is just boring really.
Being as efficient as they are takes all the fun and enjoyment out of it.
They suck the life out of games by being as robotically good as they are.
 

tomaldinho1

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Even more shocking is that if the ref in the Chelsea v Barca game in 09 had only even been semi competent he would only have one CL. All the while since, he has pretty much managed the 1st-3rd favourite every year.

Tbh, whilst having a bit of a dig, he is a fantastic league manager. Gets his teams very well oiled to last a season.
This is a very good point. Actually if you remember both CL wins had massively controversial refereeing decisions. Ovrebo was possibly the worst case of either corruption or simply unprofessionalism I’ve ever seen and then Barca were losing to Arsenal and the ref gave that ridiculous second yellow to RVP because he shot less than one second after after the offside whistle.
 

Dec9003

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It’s funny to see him melting down, but I think it’s harsh to criticise too much over not winning the Champions League yet. We won it twice with Fergie but that was over a long time, and whilst Pep has an expensive squad football isn’t that simple. I’m sure they’ll get one or two eventually if he chooses to stick with them.
 

MUW4Eva

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It’s funny to see him melting down, but I think it’s harsh to criticise too much over not winning the Champions League yet. We won it twice with Fergie but that was over a long time, and whilst Pep has an expensive squad football isn’t that simple. I’m sure they’ll get one or two eventually if he chooses to stick with them.
Sir Alex had to put up with the 3 foreigner rule, which hampered us and him hugely, what rules have hindered Pep at City??

So I fail to see why there was a need to bring Sir Alex into this discussion.
 

IrishRedDevil

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I’m guessing most people watched their Match yesterday, two games to go Liverpool hot on their heels, the first and second goals go in and its more like a tennis match, the atmosphere was absolutely dead. At least when Toon get their cash injection and start buying silly and when Liverpool are gunning for things you’ll feel The momentum behind it.
Total nonsense. Atmosphere at Anfield for Liverpool vs Spurs was basic. Actual silence for long periods of the match. Fans started to cheer after 70 mins when they got the deflected equaliser.
 

Dec9003

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Sir Alex had to put up with the 3 foreigner rule, which hampered us and him hugely, what rules have hindered Pep at City??

So I fail to see why there was a need to bring Sir Alex into this discussion.
He did but he was at United for a long time managing us in the Champions League without hinderance as well. It’s pertinent to bring Sir Alex in because he’s arguably the greatest manager of all time, and yet he found it an incredibly difficult competition to win, because it is. Similarly to Pep, over 38 matches a season in the league he was able to regularly dominate the Premier League, which I would argue is a better example of a teams quality. Madrid knocked City out, but are they a better football team? Not for me.
 

MUW4Eva

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He did but he was at United for a long time managing us in the Champions League without hinderance as well. It’s pertinent to bring Sir Alex in because he’s arguably the greatest manager of all time, and yet he found it an incredibly difficult competition to win, because it is. Similarly to Pep, over 38 matches a season in the league he was able to regularly dominate the Premier League, which I would argue is a better example of a teams quality. Madrid knocked City out, but are they a better football team? Not for me.
European football was a heck of a lot harder to win when Sir Alex was managing us, top players were spread out more across more clubs than they are now.

And as for your last point, Real Madrid the Spanish Champions are better than City, better defence, better midfield, and with King Benzema, they have a better attacking line up.
 

Red the Bear

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What was the quote?
Show me a gracious loser and I show you a loser.
To be fair his meltdowns are hilarious not gonna lie.
 

tomaldinho1

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What was the quote?
Show me a gracious loser and I show you a loser.
To be fair his meltdowns are hilarious not gonna lie.
He said he used to be Fraudiola but now felt comfortable enough in own skin that he had evolved to Guardiola. His hope is next year he will peak as Charizard.