Pep's spending is insane (£941m and counting at City)

[Ecstatic]

If the Mahrez rumours turn out to be true he will have spent £500m since taking charge at City 19 months ago.

Amounts including the bonuses and other add-ons

2016/17: 151 milions (Krywhowiak 34 + Jese 28 + Lo Celso 14 + Meunier 7 + Guedes 37 + Draxler 41)
2017/18: 418 millions (Neymar 222 + Mbappe 180 + Berchiche 16)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PSG spent for 559 millions of euros


PSG sold:

2016/17: 67 millions (David Luiz 39 + Digne 21 + Stambouli 7)
2017/18: 106 millions (27 Aurier, 31 Matuidi, 30 Lucas Moura, 13 Augustin, Sabaly 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
PSG sold for 173 millions of euros



-----------------------------------------
Net spend: 386 millions
-----------------------------------------

This year, the club will try to sell Guedes (market value 70 IMO) + Krychowiak + Jese + an offensive player (Pastore? Draxler? Di Maria?) in order to raise about 150 millions.

 

[ti vu]

Still remember United fans saying the same thing about Jose in the mid2000s.

All these managers have styles whose effectiveness money can multiply

Edit: kudos to "PayPal guardiola"

The thing is Mourinho took it backlash into himself to motivate his team with siege mentality. They're happy to play the villain role.

The last thing Pep was saying about not have fund 22 top players and then bid came in after previously outspend everyone. Yet still have the nerve to come out with holie than thou attitude every here and now.

 

[Stacks]

He’s a a cheque book manager, plain and simple who has never and will never put himself in a position where he has to show his worth as a manager. As soon as this City side start to decline and he can’t motivate them anymore, he’ll go running to the next cheat mode project. I can’t bring myself to rate him.

I am starting to question how he seems to always have it soooo cushtie

 

[SalfordRed18]

I believe City did not want to offer him the same wage package as it would mean they'd pretty much have to replicate that for quite a few others, as he wouldn't be the same star there as he will be at OT. I think he chose United both for the money and for the platform.

So he wanted to join us instead of them?

 

[Massive Spanner]

It can be argued that despite failing to win the CL during his tenure at Bayern, they hit levels of performance equal to, or slightly better than what was seen under Heynekes.

The CL is a cup competition. I don't rank achievements in it half as much as I rank league accomplishments. They didn't win the CL in 3 years but in only one would I castigate Guardiola (against Madrid). Injuries doomed them against Barcelona, and if Muller hit his penalty...

But he didn't win the CL there. I think he had a successful period there overall, due to him winning 3 titles back to back, and maintaining what was established by Heynekes, and improving on some aspects. Ask Bayern fans to confirm.



By your definition of genius, which is unorthodox if I may say so, Robert Di Matteo is a genius. Benitez is a genius. Your definition ignores all the context around Mourinho's win (Scholes disallowed goal, weakest set of semi-final contenders in ages) and calls him such because of a single trophy win more than a decade ago. That is nonsense. I rank Mourinho as a genius because of his exceptional defensive aptitude, and his excellent counter-attacking teams at Chelsea, Real Madrid and Inter. Not because of 2 CL wins against the odds. Anyone can win against the odds. What's Raineri then?

No I think it's both a combination of sustained success, over achieving at times, and doing great things with not necessarily the best team. Obviously anyone can have a fluke like that. Pep is in a unique position in that he's always taken over the best squads in their respective leagues with the biggest budgets. City to a lesser extent than the others but he's totally outspent everyone else since he got here and has comfortably the best squad right now. All I'm saying is I'd like to see him do more with teams that aren't ready made trophy winners before declaring him a genius. Mourinho has done that multiple times, so did SAF.

I'm not saying he isn't a footballing genius, he could be, I just don't think he's proven it yet. Give him a team who aren't easy to make into title winners for a few years and see how he does.

 

[Greck]

The thing is Mourinho took it backlash into himself to motivate his team with siege mentality. They're happy to play the villain role.

The last thing Pep was saying about not have fund 22 top players and then bid came in after previously outspend everyone. Yet still have the nerve to come out with holie than thou attitude every here and now.

Absolutely hated the media gushing over Jose back then but I can't remember him being elevated to the level of a saint. Feels like whenever United is involved the other side is painted by the media as the good guys.

 

[J_Red 11]

@Greck

We aren't going to deny the fact that Mourinho also need to spend a lot of money to win trophies but the difference is that Mourinho is proven that he's capable to build a team from scratch, while Pep every club he went, he already had the right top players that he needs to build his own team.

 

[Giggs86]

If we did he would go out and spend even more money. They are not going away and it'll be impossible for them not to win trophies. I just pray and hope we win more.

They will sink back to midtable where they belong once the sugar daddy goes away. They're not a big enough club to sustain themselves like big clubs do because that happens through worldwide fan base and rich history, niether of which city possess.

 

[Stubble]

If this carries on the unchecked the PL will soon be a one horse race for the foreseeable future, it will make the PL much less interesting for everyone including all city lot lapping it up at the moment. The league will be sown up every year as this year less than half way through. City have no limits to buying cash wise it seems but the Sanchez situation shows top players want to play regularly so they can only stock up with so many top players before other teams become more attractive to some of the top targets and the best youth prospects. The Bernardo Silva situation etc will make some players sit up and think. This is the only way we can hope to compete in the long term if the oil £££ doesn't dry up..

 

[Bastian]

So he wanted to join us instead of them?

Ha. Yes, given the options on the table IMV.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

The ultimate chequebook manager, the king.

Anyone got his entire career spend compared to other managers?

Went looking for it, found few interesting things, first one was, 20.07.2017. few days after B.Mendy joined PepFC

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

next one is from 22.12.2017, so not long ago:
At Barca:

At Bayern

At City

don't forget, it was written on 22.12.2017. ...

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Aye like the time he bought Ibra over giving Bojan the nod. But then again I suppose Messi and Iniesta were unknowns before he came and Pique wasn't highly rated here.

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not.

Messi had his debut a few years before Pep took over top job (Rijkaard gave him debut?) so sure he was well known by 08?

Pique was well regarded here - issue was timing as behind Vidic and Rio. If he'd been here two years later, he could have played for a decade here.

 

[ivaldo]

Damn. Who knew that the secret to getting a massive trophy haul was just a shit-ton of money.

I'm sure we are all eager to see your list of clubs that have a massive trophy haul without spending a shit-ton of money.

It's hardly baffling that almost invariably the teams that spend the most money finish highest in the league and win the most trophies.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I’m of the ilk that quite clearly Guardiola is a world class manager.

However what really grinds me is he has full protection from so much of the media. He didn’t win anything last season, joke was on Jose all season.

He’s nearly spent £500m, jokes on Man Utd and Jose for buying one £90m midfielder rather than 4 defenders at £50m each (give or take).

And then outbidding City for Sanchez we become the nasty corporate machine outspending little old City.

After Sir Alex left the club had to make a choice. Whether to start using our financial might to catch up or just give up. Regardless what opposition fans say before the likes of Chelsea and City, United’s spending whilst higher than others in the league was not outweighing everyone in the league. We use to buy 1-3 players, usually young players which stayed with the club for years.

City just spend £35m-55m now and if it doesn’t work out get rid very quickly and replace. It’s happening now with Stones and Mangala. It happened before with Bravo, Negredo, Santa Cruz, Adebayor the list could go on.

 

[Bilbo]

A few thoughts on this issue

• Pep - obviously a genius on the coaching field. Anyone who doubts this is blinkered. However he is somewhat tainting his legacy by spending in this way. It gives the doubters all the ammunition they need to question what he has, and will, achieve in the game.
• If they win it all this season none of the spending will matter - this is the most annoying aspect of it all. History will portray this lot as the greatest team ever and the spending will in time be forgotten. (I realise this sort of contradicts the first point but I believe both to be true)
• Someone said earlier 'the 2nd biggest spenders moaning about the 1st' or something along those lines. Whilst factually correct, surely the fact that we generate our own funds gives us some right to take the high ground on this? It must do. United are a monster of a club because we've been run extremely well for decades. I'm curious to know opposition fans opinion on this. Does it even matter to anyone apart from us? I don't think it's sour grapes from our side

 

[adexkola]

I'm sure we are all eager to see your list of clubs that have a massive trophy haul without spending a shit-ton of money.

It's hardly baffling that almost invariably the teams that spend the most money finish highest in the league and win the most trophies.

I didn't make that claim! Someone else did, I was pointing out the irony

 

[Rightnr]

Hypocrites. Reminds of the narrative around 'humble' Nadal and 'arrogant' Federer.

 

[adexkola]

1. Bayern. He inherited treble winning team, spent huge money and won only domestic titles which any coach would win with that squad.
2. City. He inherited best team in england, spent again huge money and finished fourth. Then he spent another 300mil. He doesn't create anything . Sane is injured. Jose would change something, give chance to other player. Pep buys another player. Mangala and stones are not perfect players. Pep buys another. Jose plays rojo and blind.

So yes- jose mourinho is f1 for guardiola

Huh?

I'm not arguing Mourinho isn't top class (which for me merits the genius tag)... he obviously is.

All I'm saying, is that, any metric that ranks Mourinho as top class while ranking Guardiola as "unproven" is incredibly flawed.

 

[Canagel]

They will sink back to midtable where they belong once the sugar daddy goes away. They're not a big enough club to sustain themselves like big clubs do because that happens through worldwide fan base and rich history, niether of which city possess.

Are you sure? How long will Sheikh Mansour keep investing like this? Perhaps City are trying to build a history now so that when he does eventually decide to pull the plug they will be considered a big club all over the world.

 

[robinamicrowave]

If this carries on the unchecked the PL will soon be a one horse race for the foreseeable future, it will make the PL much less interesting for everyone including all city lot lapping it up at the moment. The league will be sown up every year as this year less than half way through. City have no limits to buying cash wise it seems but the Sanchez situation shows top players want to play regularly so they can only stock up with so many top players before other teams become more attractive to some of the top targets and the best youth prospects. The Bernardo Silva situation etc will make some players sit up and think. This is the only way we can hope to compete in the long term if the oil £££ doesn't dry up..

Wonder if you moaned about the overall quality of the Premier League and the title being traded between the same two or three teams every season when you were spending all the cash and winning the league every fecking year between 1996 and 2011. Let someone else have a go.

 

[adexkola]

You missed the point if you bring Di Matteo into the conversation. He failed to replicate it. Which other posters via their examples pointing out how their definition of genius point to the ability to replicate similar feat. Benitez is a waning force, but he was a genius with his Valencia stint. Won not just 1 fluke trophy! Those coaches with short peak happened. LVG is another. They ain't in the same contention for the greatness though which other posters pointed out.

IMO, Pep is a genius in coaching. However, he's yet to be deemed more than a coach. Other being genious managers who turned the fortunate of the club against the odd. Pep Bayern may had peak performance better than Heyknes, but problem showed when you need to adapt to the situation where opposition matched or above his team quality, he is not all that. He doesn't have the extra tactical tool to change thing. His only way is to get better quality players to get more from the same blueprint!!! He's yet to prove he is capable to win against the odd.

Now you and others are shifting the goal-posts.

Is the measure of a genius winning against the odds? Is that a necessary AND sufficient criteria for genius? Or is it winning against the odds more than once? Is that a necessary AND sufficient criteria for genius?

If either of those are true, then yes, Guardiola fails to be a genius by that definition, because for the Caf, you aren't working against the odds unless you go to the Championship and bring a team there the treble.

I just think that it's a really nonsensical way of defining a genius. It's not done in other fields. Imagine not calling Newton a genius because he didn't come up with gravity while working in the coal mines. Hmph... anyone can think of that while sitting under an apple tree.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Wonder if you moaned about the overall quality of the Premier League and the title being traded between the same two or three teams every season when you were spending all the cash and winning the league every fecking year between 1996 and 2011. Let someone else have a go.

We were never spending all the cash though. We weren't outspending challenging teams like city are now. We spent far less than Chelsea after Abram came and far less than City after the Sheikh's came too. Just unfortunate for everyone else that we had the greatest manager ever for 26 odd years.

Pre Abramovich we were probably the biggest spenders in the league but it certainly wasn't by a big margin.

 

[Josep Dowling]

They will sink back to midtable where they belong once the sugar daddy goes away. They're not a big enough club to sustain themselves like big clubs do because that happens through worldwide fan base and rich history, niether of which city possess.

This just isn’t the reality though. If they keep winning they will create a fan base. You only have to look at the worldwide support Chelsea have gained since 2003.

And as for the oil money running out. They have invested into pretty much everything around the world. I don’t they can run out of money now.

 

[clarkydaz]

Wonder if you moaned about the overall quality of the Premier League and the title being traded between the same two or three teams every season when you were spending all the cash and winning the league every fecking year between 1996 and 2011. Let someone else have a go.

You are spending £50m a pop on spares

 

[GlastonSpur]

The second highest spenders moaning about the highest spenders. ...

Quite so.

 

[Boycott]

Football managers are glorified pe teachers, not geniuses

 

[Pexbo]

The second highest spenders moaning about the highest spenders. Imagine how the rest of us feel

The moaning is about the hypocrisy of their attempted claims of the moral higher ground and that they are somehow behind other clubs financially which is more than fair enough, the stats show how preposterous that is.

 

[TheReligion]

Wonder if you moaned about the overall quality of the Premier League and the title being traded between the same two or three teams every season when you were spending all the cash and winning the league every fecking year between 1996 and 2011. Let someone else have a go.

Yeah the money we made by promoting our youth and taking a gamble!

Our own money.

 

[adexkola]

That's a low bar to set for calling someone a genius.

What's he done that you would say given the same resource nobody else would have been able to do?

Forget the trophies. Pep has weaponized possession of the ball like no other has done. Sounds a bit melodramatic, but it's true.

Look at Barcelona at their absolute peak under Pep, or City this season. Against what other manager have you seen sides scared shitless of even pretending to attack, just looking to see out the entire 90 minutes? One can be intellectually dishonest and put his sides' quality entirely down to the players. Then what happened under Rijkaard and Mancini/Pellegrini with the same players?

SAF was a genius, he reinvented his sides through generation after generation and made every team more than the sum of it's parts. Jose doing what he did with Porto and Inter is a million times more impressive than anything Pep has done.

I'm not sure if anyone remembers that Porto run, but it wasn't really great. It was the weakest semi-final in ages. Plus that fecking Scholes goal. That isn't genius. Is Benitez a genius for Istanbul? Is Di Matteo a genius for Munich?

As for Inter, yes, I rank the tie against Barcelona as one of the best expositions of clinical counter-attacking in the first leg, and deep organized defending in the second against a world class attack. I also rank Pep's humiliation of Jose's Madrid to the tune of 5-0 up there. As do I rank the way he dispatched us in 2009. Ignoring the exaggeration, what's the difference? Inter weren't exactly Accrington Stanley.

 

[2cents]

Wonder if you moaned about the overall quality of the Premier League and the title being traded between the same two or three teams every season when you were spending all the cash and winning the league every fecking year between 1993 and 2013. Let someone else have a go.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Greck]

This just isn’t the reality though. If they keep winning they will create a fan base. You only have to look at the worldwide support Chelsea have gained since 2003.

And as for the oil money running out. They have invested into pretty much everything around the world. I don’t they can run out of money now.

This is what we should be working to avoid. They have the pretty football but a period of prolonged dominance will be the final nail in the coffin before we start seeing waves of younger fans flocking to support City as the hipster club.

Dominant attacking football is the blueprint we used to conquer the English market and would be damned to see Baldie and the Blue boys do the same

 

[Earthquake]

Is he? People keep saying it but I genuinely don't see it.

He's conned most of the world into thinking he's a holier than thou, moral arbiter doing everything the right way paladin of football whilst mainly spending endless amounts of oil and blood money.

That's a kind of genius...

 

[breakout67]

As far as I'm concerned anything other than complete domination is below standard for City; they've got to dominate the game like Barcelona and Madrid have in the past 10 years. Winning the league with this spending is a cake walk because no other team will be able to invest like City. It's gotten to a point where injuries don't even matter that much because they'll spend £50m to get a replacement for 6 months.

A bang average manager in Pellegrini can win the league with oil money; Guardiola is on 0 trophies in 1 season (and will get at least 1 trophy this season); if he stays for 3-4 years and leaves I would be disappointed.

 

[adexkola]

As far as I know, Bayern's fans' opinion is divided. Some enjoyed his time there just for the sheer quality of football and tactics on display while some believe his stringent one way of playing did cost them another CL final at least. Personally, given the level of quality of Bayern's squad then, I think it was a failure on some level for Pep not to at least reach one CL final, cup competition or not, especially since league was such a pedestrian affair for them.

That is only applicable in the tie against Madrid, yes. And every manager has those seasons where it got away from them. SAF has the ties against Dortmund and Madrid (twice) that he rues. Jose has (while at Madrid) Dortmund, Bayern, and (at Chelsea) PSG and Atletico as the ties he absolutely fecked up in.

If Pep failed at Bayern, did Jose fail at Madrid and Chelsea? Did SAF fail for only 2 CL trophies?

The league was such a pedestrian level for Bayern, the same way the PL is such a pedestrian level this season for City. The common factor is Pep. If you think it's cash, then why doesn't Jose spend more, if it's that easy?

 

[Massive Spanner]

This is what we should be working to avoid. They have the pretty football but a period of prolonged dominance will be the final nail in the coffin before we start seeing waves of younger fans flocking to support City as the hipster club.

Dominant attacking football is the blueprint we used to conquer the English market and would be damned to see Baldie and the Blue boys do the same

Liverpool have been bang average for about thirty years or so now and have gone from the second biggest club in England to... The second biggest club in England. Chelsea were also a much bigger club pre Abramovich than City were pre Sheikh. It's not really something to be too concerned with, unless we inexplicably do a Leeds or something and get relegated!

 

[King.of.Red]

Pep is hypocrite. Simple.

 

[JPRouve]

Fixed that for you.

Better and worse at the same time.

 

[Bilbo]

Every penny that United spend on players is generated by the club. We should never have to apologise for spending our own money.

 

[adexkola]

Let's try and define genius. If Wenger is a genius then is Bielsa? LVG? Emery?

I said Wenger was a genius. Don't think his recent achievements on the pitch qualify... although his run of top 4 finishes was really impressive work.

Bielsa is absolutely a genius, Guardiola and others hail him as such for his innovation tactics wise and that's enough for me. LVG's accomplishments with Ajax stand alone. Emery had a great run with Sevilla and he ranked just below that genius for me. Have not followed him much at PSG.

For me a managerial genius requires two main things. The achievement of something completely unexpected in a positive way and sustained success at the top level. I'll give you the Barca team of Pep as fulfilling the first criteria. A lot of people though look at the players in that team at their peak and the success of managers before and after Pep and see it as something that doesn't quite fulfill that first criteria.

The sheer domination of Barcelona during Pep, and the domination of City this season (12 points clear at the moment) was not expected. Show me a post on the caf around the summer of 2008, predicting years of dominance for Barcelona at the top. Show me a post on the caf who predicted City would run away with the league. These things are only expected... in hindsight, which tells you something.

 

[Traub]

I’m pretty sure I read on here that Pep was the one who sanctioned the Sterling and de Bruyne signings as well (I hope I’m not making this up)