Why are these conversations always talked about as detrimental to the left, when the right have years of baseless dehumanisation and character smearing?
Sorry for not adressering the whole post & for going on and on about something that's probably easy to sum up in a few words or lines. Completely understand if people can't be bothered to read it. And I'm likely too tired to go into a big discussion, but I'll try if there is a invitation for it.
This part on my end though, has more to do with me politically being aligned with people on the far left. I just have a strong dislike for silencing differing views. Where they see it as sensible as they see themselves silencing or calling out something inherently wrong I see it as just a tool to silence people we should be listening to & debate so we can change minds instead of divide people.
A short example, that is not supposed to be rude (take it as me being mentally weak):
I find myself agreeing with Silva a lot on actual political stuff. But I can't stand reading his stuff when it comes to threads like these because I find him more interested in shutting down people and the discussion than to take the debate.
Then again, we have very, very few people on the caf that will discuss right-wing ideas from a right-wing perspective, so most often he has to deal with people who are leftist that are tired of seeing other leftist ruin (in our eyes) potential discussions that helps us understand right-wingers and debate them in the future.
Naturally we often fall into traps where we defend someones right to speak and be heard when that person is someone who is just awful.
People like Shapiro don't get us in awe over his amazing intellect, stances on issues or stuff like that.
But he tries to keep it civil from our perspective with not turning emotional and trying to stick to what he considers to be factual and inviting the opposition to a actual debate.
I think one of the good rebuttals (based on very little research on my end) on Shapiro is that he usually debates people who haven't really got a clue on the subjects he's comfortable with, and his ideas would be more easily picked apart by someone who isn't emotionally unstable or out of their depth in the topic.
As you said, the bar has been lowered considerably, and that is unfortunate, but people like Shapiro gets their highlights because the bar is lowered and they are above it where as others on both sides often go into emotional tantrums. I'd be more happy with people like Shapiro being just random people you'd hear at a pub talk bollocks in a civil way than him being a highlight guy from the right just for his ability to keep his cool & saying he'll listen to you if you can provide sources for your opinion.
Also, for whoever mentioned it, Obama is clearly a far, far superior debater. But it's a struggle to find people on the right that doesn't get shut down or silenced with ist/isms that are willing to show us why they believe what they believe.
People like myself who are still trying to find our feet on a ton of issues, need to hear from both sides to be comfortable on where we land on stuff.
I for example disagree massively with him on health-care, which is a emotional topic for me, supposedly being best made through open market to drive prices down instead of a taxed & state-supported/driven health-care system that takes care of those in need. But because I listen to what he says, I can tell people I discuss with around me that I don't believe the open market way is sufficient because it takes time & a leap of faith in the people that are in the business of earning money to try and do the right thing once they are in a position to do so, as opposed to my views on it meaning that it costs quite a bit for the community as a whole but that it gives a safety net for everyone that isn't judged on where they are on the social-ladder.
Before, I'd be able to tell them what I believe to be right, but wouldn't be able to or have felt the need to try and understand why they believe in the things they do, and I'd more easily fall for the belief that they aren't interested in helping the people lower down on the social ladder.