True, insofar as small government and capitalist enterprise is concerned. Less so on some social issues perhaps: abortion, same sex marriage , etc.
Peterson, Harris, etc....
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I listened to that today. Excellent UBI argument
Truly powerful brain
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Isn’t it? Listened to a few different people bigging it up but he’s definitely been the most compelling.
Good lord, hope Trump doesn’t stumble across that tweet during an uneventful afternoon.
damn, someone needs to call the epic police
I'm starting to notice that Jordan Peterson is actually having a huge effect on people right now. In the last couple of months, I've had conversations with at least 7 friends/aquaintances who have somehow bumped into his stuff on twitter or youtube and have been impressed by what he has to say. And these are the kind of people who you normally wouldn't expect to have an interest in psychology, politics or the like.
My cousin is the most interesting example, last year, if you spoke to him he was very much into social justice, was opposed to Brexit and loved welfare. I took him to the Eubank Jnr v Degale fight and it's strange how far his views have flipped. Opposes social justice, loves Brexit and believes in free markets and small government.
Not sure what to make of it in general, but I feel like with these particular people, the impression they are getting from 'the left' (for lack of a better term) is that there is no longer a room for men in social conversations and they are gravitating towards people like Peterson who are telling them that they can offer something (whatever that is) to society.
My cousin is the most interesting example, last year, if you spoke to him he was very much into social justice, was opposed to Brexit and loved welfare. I took him to the Eubank Jnr v Degale fight and it's strange how far his views have flipped. Opposes social justice, loves Brexit and believes in free markets and small government.
Not sure what to make of it in general, but I feel like with these particular people, the impression they are getting from 'the left' (for lack of a better term) is that there is no longer a room for men in social conversations and they are gravitating towards people like Peterson who are telling them that they can offer something (whatever that is) to society.
I was at a hipster coffee shop on Saturday and all the SJWs and people who love welfare were whispering about how they had been "red-pilled" by Jordan Peterson and that they couldnt wait till to read some more Hayek on their Amazon Kindle.
Peterson thinks Brexit is a dumb idea and a betrayal of the parliamentary democracy system. At least that's what he said on Question Time.
Interesting, I mean as you would expect I think it’s a great thing people are even bothering to pretend to read Hayek. That said, not surprised hipsters are doing it, the surprising thing is my friends/cousins are young black men from south London. Not what you would expect to be the usual demographic for Peterson.
WTF. I suppose an apocalypse triggered by WW would diminish any threat posed by climate change. 
I know someone like your cousin. I don’t think it’s all down to Peterson. He’s a part of it. A bigger factor (IMHO) is the left crawling up its own arse with constant bickering about identity politics on social media. It feels as though there’s a whole generation starting to push back against that and ending up watching Jordan Peterson videos as part of that process.
Two things don't quite add up there for me, or at least it's less self-explanatory than usually assumed.
First one is: If these people's estrangement from the left ends up with following Peterson & company of all people, what were they searching for in the first place? It's not like there aren't any alternatives.
And then, if they're supposedly fed up with identity politics as such, why do they gravitate towards someone whose current career is practically built around identity politics?
Honestly not sure how it works. Maybe someone ends up feeling peeved about pronouns and ends up watching Peterson as a result? Or Peterson’s messages strike a cord when they end up stumbling across a video by accident?
Well, I say by accident but youtube algorithms are sneaky as feck. Peterson content probably gets pushed onto the feed of most susceptible young men. Especially with his focus on self improvement. Anyone who ends up looking to youtube gurus for a path through life will end up finding him at some point.
Is it you?
Yeah, it's interesting. My cousin surprised me because it was such a big change and it kind of came out of nowhere. What you say about youtube algorithms is true as well. Jordan Peterson seems like the latest iteration of the Nassim Taleb type of academic - sells himself as a sort of anti-establishment figure and his presentation style really appeals to, very stereotypical now, young men.
Nope. My wife’s cousin. I’ve been friends with him and his brother for years. They both got sucked down an alt right youtube rabbit hole a while ago. One of them came out the other side, the other one is still drinking the kool aid.
I think it's the "striking a chord" aspect that I felt was missing before. I'm convinced it's crucial, and it can't be ignored while just focussing on purported or actual failings of leftists or liberals. That's essentially what my two questions were aiming at.
And it's my impression that this aspect is surprisingly often underestimated in squabbles between liberals and leftists over identity politics or economics, and their (again: purported or actual) role in recent successes of the right.
This aspect is probably important, but it likewise shouldn't be overrated, imo. Constant plugging certainly helps to explain the general spread of Peterson content, but not why an individual person reacts positively to these messages. If I'm not receptive to a particular message to begin with, I'll only get annoyed when bombarded with it.
You can see the appeal though.
If you're a young white bloke, struggling to get by in the current economic climate (the fella I know has been unemployed for ages and lives in a fairly impoverished town in Ireland) then you can see why they might get jaded by being reminded how privileged they are and/or that the patriarchy has the game rigged in their favour (even if both these things are true!). From there, it would be easy to be seduced by someone like Peterson. Especially if you're exploring these ideas in an online echo chamber.
Besides, a lot of Peterson's core concepts aren't that controversial. It's self help 101. Get your own shit in order before blaming anyone else, fake it til you make it, make sure you have the right priorities in life etc. etc. He's such a divisive figure that most people on the left get all worked about his most whacky and outlandish statements. Whereas most of what he says is actually fairly mundane and obvious, just delivered in a fairly obtuse manner. I find people like Shapiro and Stefan Molyneux infinitely more problematic.
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I agree with Pogue when he says that it's easy to see how the likes of @Vidic_In_Moscow fall for Peterson's schtick.
New TV, nice couch, adopted a cat... looks like someone has been cleaning their room..
I'm going to adopt you and keep you on a leash
get a room already you nerds
That is so gay. Now allowed in the nazi club.
I'm going to feed you to a pitbull.
My general point in this discussion is that these conclusions require a pretty identitarian self-understanding to begin with. Which limits the possibilities of dialogue with ideas in (potentially severe) contradiction to that identity. There's always an aspect of self-criticism in social criticism. (And I don't mean the "pull yourself together and be a man" type of self-criticism, which confirms the desired identity and is therefore popular among Peterson's crowd.) My impression is that it's often this aspect that makes people angry and defiant.
I haven't payed attention to Peterson's thinking beyond the bits & pieces usually discussed here, so the following contains a good deal of speculation.
But I deem it unlikely that his self help branch is unconnected to his general political mindset (cultural marxism systematically undermining society, assault on masculinity, his faux universalism of denouncing minority identity politics while pushing majority identity politics, etc). Or put differently: I expect the ideal-typical subject of his life philosophy to be somewhat in line with his ideas about society.
If I had to hazard a guess, I'd suspect his understanding of individualism and probably his Jungian esotericism to play a mediating role, but as I said, in the end I lack the necessary background knowledge. So I just settle for the position that his two main departments of work shouldn't be seperated too readily without taking a closer look.
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Agreed. His turn from libertarian to full on fascist has been pretty strange. He's absolutely insane.
Maybe he'll get his wish now
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(((Bad Jews))) are undermining G̶e̶r̶m̶a̶n̶y̶ Jews.
fecking hell, yet again proving himself as the human scum he is. That's very nearly literal Nazi propaganda. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's actual literal Nazi propaganda.
I hope he falls down some stairs.
Shapiro must be referring to the vast majority of American Jews who have voted for Dem Presidents over the past 100 years.
Nah, that's nonsense. Look at the convo with Eric Weinstein in the comments, that's far from a Nazi characterization of Jews (which, it has to be noted, aims at extermination). He's a right wing troll, full-on tribalist, and massive asshole though, and he doesn't care that his words are dangerous and harmful.
Should also be noted that the tweet is from 2011, but since he doesn't backtrack on it, it doesn't matter too much.
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