Plane crashed in Karachi, Pakistan

[Moiraine]

A Pakistani International Airline plane crashed over the residential area of Karachi. Reports are that it was having some technical problems during landing and was instructed to circle around the airport.

really devastating, RIP all those poor souls

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52766904

 

[AshRK]

Heartbreaking news. Prayers to their families and loved ones. RIP

 

[hasanejaz88]

Videos going around showing the wreckage amongst houses, that area where it crashed is densely populated with narrow roads and houses packed together. Just a devastating scene.

 

[adexkola]

Sad news.

Early reports say the crew indicated a loss of power in both engines.

 

[Rado_N]

Videos going around showing the wreckage amongst houses, that area where it crashed is densely populated with narrow roads and houses packed together. Just a devastating scene.

Bloody hell that sounds like pretty much a worst case scenario, absolutely awful.

 

[Dumbstar]

I've flown PIA internationally and domestically in the last year or so. I will not lie I have always cacked myself whenever I have. My mum would insist we flew with them, hopefully she's completely over that fascination now.

 

[RedDevil@84]

That's heartbreaking. RIP to the souls. It is worse that it crashed into a residential area.

 

[ha_rooney]

Heartbreaking. RIP.

 

[VP89]

Terrible, in an auspicious time of Ramadan too, RIP.

 

[Tibs]

So sad

If you see the map of where it crashed, I'd guess it was no more than 15-20 seconds from the runway

 

[11101]

Sad news. Must have been something big to cause both engines to simultaneously shut down. I hope they didn't forget their fuel levels after the first landing attempt.

 

[hasanejaz88]

I've flown PIA internationally and domestically in the last year or so. I will not lie I have always cacked myself whenever I have. My mum would insist we flew with them, hopefully she's completely over that fascination now.

Yea man I hate PIA. The enraging fact is that they also have the most domestic flights so someone who is constrained for time eventually has to go through them. Other airlines are better like Serene Air and Shaheen.

Their airlines have been plagued with technical issues for years. The company has been posting billion rupee loses the whole decade and buying airplanes from scrapyards in Africa. Hate to say this was bound to happen because it happens to all airlines, but it seemed bound to happen.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Terrible news, I'm guessing most of the flyers were making their way home for Eid.

2 failed engines just before landing. Yikes, if there's no negligence, that's extreme bad luck.

 

[Varun]

Tragic news, RIP.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Horrible, RIP

 

[golden_blunder]

Awful, RIP

 

[Dumbstar]

Terrible news, I'm guessing most of the flyers were making their way home for Eid.

2 failed engines just before landing. Yikes, if there's no negligence, that's extreme bad luck.

Two failed engines is not bad luck, it's incompetence. Airlines have to follow CMM level 6 processes or whatever which reduces error ratios to one in millions or even billions. Pakistan is just full of nepotism and corruption and PIA has represented that over decades. Seems like it's finally caught up with them.

I was on a PIA flight from Islamabad to Karachi last summer and later read in newspapers that my flight was involved in a near air collision, it was only the skills of the pilots that saved us all. Apparently the air controllers involved were fired. Then a few months later my uncle texted me that another near collision almost happened again. That's the level this banana republic operates on. We'll need Imran khan in charge for 20 years before the country can come out of this hell.

 

[11101]

Two failed engines is not bad luck, it's incompetence. Airlines have to follow CMM level 6 processes or whatever which reduces error ratios to one in millions or even billions. Pakistan is just full of nepotism and corruption and PIA has represented that over decades. Seems like it's finally caught up with them.

I was on a PIA flight from Islamabad to Karachi last summer and later read in newspapers that my flight was involved in a near air collision, it was only the skills of the pilots that saved us all. Apparently the air controllers involved were fired. Then a few months later my uncle texted me that another near collision almost happened again. That's the level this banana republic operates on. We'll need Imran khan in charge for 20 years before the country can come out of this hell.

Unless it hit birds.

There are a number of similar things that have happened before:
- bad first landing that damaged fuselage and engines
- getting distracted and running out of fuel
- poor quality fuel damaging the engines
- maintenance forgetting to finish something properly
- Ramadan fasting causing pilot performance issues

Could be any of those and more.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Unless it hit birds.

There are a number of similar things that have happened before:
- bad first landing that damaged fuselage and engines
- getting distracted and running out of fuel
- poor quality fuel damaging the engines
- maintenance forgetting to finish something properly
- Ramadan fasting causing pilot performance issues

Could be any of those and more.

Yeah, I seem to recall that bird strikes are the most likely cause of multiple engine failures historically. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

My heart goes out to All lost, as well as their families.

98 Dead

Crazy that we could see 4 of those planes go down every day to meet the current UK Covid Death rate.

Insane how we’ve lost all perspective so quickly.

 

[Foxbatt]

RIP. My prayers and thoughts are with the families. It's so sad when these things happen. But that's God's will.


On a different note from the little clip I saw it looks like the aircraft was not in the right attitude. I know that both engines had failed but from the clip he was too nose up. Of course I can't see what obstacles he may have but if it's a few seconds from the runway it may be better if his nose was down a bit more as he would get more distance
Of course the investigation would find out everything. Pakistan pilots have a good reputation for flying though maintenance has been an issue there.

 

[berbatrick]

Sad news.

Early reports say the crew indicated a loss of power in both engines.

bird strike?

or it could be contaminated fuel or fuel miscalculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_Pacific_Flight_780
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

 

[RedDevil@84]

There seems to be one banker who was a passenger and survived the crash. Hope there are more.

 

[adexkola]

bird strike?

or it could be contaminated fuel or fuel miscalculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathay_Pacific_Flight_780
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Bird strike on both engines? Possible but very unlikely. Something more central (fuel out or bad fuel like you mentioned) seems more likely

 

[MDFC Manager]

On a different note from the little clip I saw it looks like the aircraft was not in the right attitude. I know that both engines had failed but from the clip he was too nose up. Of course I can't see what obstacles he may have but if it's a few seconds from the runway it may be better if his nose was down a bit more as he would get more distance

I saw this clip and wondered the exact same. Didn't look right at all. Might have been a mistake or even a desperate last attempt to avoid crashing in populated areas.

Have you seen this clip @adexkola?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

105 dead, 3 survivors. Horrible tragedy!

RIP

 

[sammsky1]

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[Abizzz]

Horrible

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That explosion in a residential area

 

[Foxbatt]

I saw this clip and wondered the exact same. Didn't look right at all. Might have been a mistake or even a desperate last attempt to avoid crashing in populated areas.

Have you seen this clip @adexkola?

No I couldn't see that. Yes I can guess in hindsight but it's what happens in that moment. Having seen the earlier clip a few times I can see that his undercarriage is also down. Seems to have misjudged it because with it down he is going to get a lot of drag and hence without the engines his distance would be less. I am sure if he was only a few seconds from the runway edge ( even the RESA) runway end safety area) he would have made it with his gear up.
Similar incident happened to BA 38. 777 flight from Bejing to LHR. The captain reduced the flap setting to reduce drag and stretch the glide path to get the distance. He made it with zero fatalities.
It's easy to make mistakes under extreme stressful conditions.
I think it's time to make it mandatory for all pilots to be familiar with all accidents and incidents on all commercial aircraft so they are familiar with what has happened in the past and how to avoid the mistakes.
So sad this has happened.

 

[hasanejaz88]

First the landing gear wasn't working, then on the 2nd try both engines failed. 3 technical failures in one flight, that's horrendous.

 

[Foxbatt]

His approach doesn't look like he was having gear problem. Maybe the nose gear only?
The team that Pakistan consisted of investigation has two military guys and one civilian.
Let's hope they investigate it quickly. Obviously Airbus will be involved in this too.

 

[adexkola]

I saw this clip and wondered the exact same. Didn't look right at all. Might have been a mistake or even a desperate last attempt to avoid crashing in populated areas.

Have you seen this clip @adexkola?

Just seeing it now

 

[berbatrick]

First the landing gear wasn't working, then on the 2nd try both engines failed. 3 technical failures in one flight, that's horrendous.

Hydraulic failure? It could definitely mess up the landing gear and might eventually cause some issue with engines?

 

[Foxbatt]

There is something odd with the ATC recordings.
Why was he losing attitude? Why did Tower ask him if he wants to do a belly landing? You suddenly don't do a belly landing even if your undercarriage didn't work. I feel there was a lot more problems with that aircraft. The Cockpit voice recorder and obviously the digital flight recorder will show what exactly happened.

There are two independent hydraulic lines. It shouldn't cause both engine failures.
He did a go around and it should have been at that thrust setting. He was asked to climb to 3000 feet and he didn't. He didn't even know that he was not at 3000. He then wanted 2000 and he didn't know that he was at 1800.
Definitely looking at the video his nose looked too high and it means his drag was high.
Was Karachi ILS showing faulty glide path?

 

[11101]

Some of the images coming out suggest they might have hit the ground on the first approach and damaged the engines.

 

[Foxbatt]

Some of the images coming out suggest they might have hit the ground on the first approach and damaged the engines.

Wow that changes the whole thing. That must have been a crazy approach. Unless the weather was very bad. The A320 is something you can't really crash in that sense.
This why I have said before whether the Karachi ILS is spot on or could be an issue?

 

[11101]

Wow that changes the whole thing. That must have been a crazy approach. Unless the weather was very bad. The A320 is something you can't really crash in that sense.
This why I have said before whether the Karachi ILS is spot on or could be an issue?

If they hit the ground hard enough on the first attempt they could have scraped the engines, and it might explain the landing gear problems on the second go.

Or, they didn't command enough power for the first go around, raised the gear and the aircraft sank down and touched the runway before going back up again.

All speculation at this point but there are a few ways in which a screwed up approach could damage a pair of engines.

 

[Foxbatt]

If they hit the ground hard enough on the first attempt they could have scraped the engines, and it might explain the landing gear problems on the second go.

Or, they didn't command enough power for the first go around, raised the gear and the aircraft sank down and touched the runway before going back up again.

All speculation at this point but there are a few ways in which a screwed up approach could damage a pair of engines.

They shouldn't have if the ILS is spot on and if he is on the glide path. There is a go around setting on the Airbus. It virtually flies itself. And you don't raise the undercarriage at that height as according to the surviving passenger they did touch down the runway.
Now I don't know what the spot wind was at the time. Unless he gets both left and right gears on the ground the reverse thrust and spoilers would not have been possible. So he would have to initiate a go around.
Yes as you say it's mere speculation at this point.

 

[Sultan]

May Allah SWT grant all those who lost their lives eternal bliss.

 

[11101]

They shouldn't have if the ILS is spot on and if he is on the glide path. There is a go around setting on the Airbus. It virtually flies itself. And you don't raise the undercarriage at that height as according to the surviving passenger they did touch down the runway.
Now I don't know what the spot wind was at the time. Unless he gets both left and right gears on the ground the reverse thrust and spoilers would not have been possible. So he would have to initiate a go around.
Yes as you say it's mere speculation at this point.

All things that are supposed to happen, but might not have been done properly. You can still go around after a (brief) touchdown.

Pakistani media are now reporting the gear was up on the first attempt and there are scrape marks on the runway from the engines. So far it reads like the most plausible explanation is simply that they forgot to lower the gear. I hope it's not that.