Hammondo
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- Aug 21, 2015
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Players should have no power in this way, and anyone causing problems should be benched and sold.
I think if the majority of the players believe in Jose tactics and methods then its easy. They will back Jose move to remove his "second captaincy" and they will also support him if Pogba is still a nucaince and hes dtopped.How will it work well in this situation Paul v Jose. Or how does it work well if a manager has his way of thinking and the players or certain players have theirs.
I already responded to that question multiple times, as long as I don't know what is going on between Pogba and Mourinho, as long as I don't know if it's personal or strictly professional I can't pick a side on that particular topic. Then based on the team performances and the fact that Pogba is by far our best outfield player, you have to wonder if it's actually Pogba vs Mourinho and not most players vs Mourinho and in that case Mourinho is a failing manager.How will it work well in this situation Paul v Jose. Or how does it work well if a manager has his way of thinking and the players or certain players have theirs.
But he was brought in with that glittering CV two years ago. We're past the 'benefit of the doubt' stage here.You have to give the benefit of doubt first though. Otherwise the next young unproven manager comes in and they disrespect him again because they think his method isn't working.
Especially when the manager brought in with a glittering cv. If jose told you to play his way you should play his way. He has merit the job. They havent.
Lol I never said Jose is devoid of any blame. Go read my initial post again. I was saying that since this thread is about player power, I'm not going to discuss about Jose's antics. Of course Jose has a lot to answer for but that's for another thread. Basically my point is player power is toxic and it should never be accepted in any club.You go compile the list of Pogba quotes and I'll get you 2+ years of Mourinho quotes...actually no. I got Pogba's right here..."We need to attack, attack, attack,...", "I can't say anything or I'll be fined". I've never seen anything so mutinous! There are obviously a bunch of people who have enormous issue with what players earn and project their anger towards them in irrational ways. What's Mourinho's salary? A 5-3-2 with 7 defensive players vs WHU. McTominay deployed as a pawn in some year-long running humiliation ploy. Supreme value for money right there. How many times has Mourinho separated himself from the club in his attempts to preserve his legacy? The better question is, when has he not? But just sit there and complain about hair cuts and pine for a time gone by when players like Keane never fell out with the manager.
Hazard tired of Mourinho and Conte. Pogba has played for Conte, Allegri and Deschamps with little drama. Mourinho used the same 'defensive' critique of Hazard as he did this weekend with Martial. It's the same tired playbook. If you can conclusively demonstrate Mourinho's tremendous principled leadership over the last 2 years then I would consider further discussion. Attitude reflects leadership.
/end
Mourinho system is fairly simple. Not some sophisticated total football. It worries me if our players cant play the way jose wanted.Maybe if we had some sort of semblance of a system the players wouldn't be supposedly running the show? My god look at all the other top teams, even teams like chelsea and arsenal have managed to implement cohesive, TANGIBLE systems in less time than mou has been here. 3 years in and I still have no idea how we are supposed to be set up, or who will be playing week to week. Yet somehow it is all the players' fault for having too much "power". Amazing that it doesn't seem to be the case with literally any of the other top teams (and i hesitate to include United as a top team right now considering we are squarely midtable)
He may very well walk away, shaw can say I proved him wrong move on and he goes onto become an even better player. It’s just terrifying the vision he’s got for the team is very slow, very tall and ageing players. The way we going forget a top 4, we could be fighting a relegation battle here, when 19 other teams can beat this what I call is not a team, but an chaotic set of individuals where the manager fights it’s best players, and has faith in pretty average players to try and get him out of a asteroid size hole, and he keeps digging deeper. Big clubs act fast, this club does not act like a big clubFully agree with your quote, the only thing I would like to add in the case of Shaw, what people don't realize is that Shaw has not signed a new contract and according to him will only consider signing a new contract if he deems himself good enough for UTD. Which we all know is bullshit, normally players would be to keen to sign for UTD. End result Shaw walks at the end of this season for free.
What you're suggesting is buying robots, or slaves where the master can do as say what he likes and they must obey completely and give it their all in fear of repercussions.Players should have no power in this way, and anyone causing problems should be benched and sold.
Well this is what we all expected from Jose, instead he spent money on even worse playersMourinho system is fairly simple. Not some sophisticated total football. It worries me if our players cant play the way jose wanted.
I doubt smailing and the old boys would be of use to pep. They'd be ruthlessly shown out of the door on day 1
I am saying they are being paid to do a job, huge amounts of money. If they stop trying their wages should be cut, and if they don't do their job they should be sold. The club is more important than the players, they are adults so we should treat them like adults.What you're suggesting is buying robots, or slaves where the master can do as say what he likes and they must obey completely and give it their all in fear of repercussions.
I don't agree. Jose was never given the option to do that. No manager can replace their entire squad regardless of how bad the squad is if they are not promised the money to replace them. In this case, if Smalling is the best among the bunch of average players, Jose has to keep and replace others but keep playing Smalling. With Smalling and some of these players' wages, there's no way to go get top quality players who will also require big wages in addition to big transfer fees. Rebuilding a squad takes time if we are not able to throw money at it. It has to be a step by step process. If the board stops backing the rebuild, you get a squad that is not here nor there. This is what we're seeing on the pitch now. We would be in a different place if we got one of the midfielders that we were linked with, a couple of the wingers we were linked with, and defenders we were linked with.Well this is what we all expected from Jose, instead he spent money on even worse players
I doubt even Jose can think up these excuses you guys make up every dayI don't agree. Jose was never given the option to do that. No manager can replace their entire squad regardless of how bad the squad is if they are not promised the money to replace them. In this case, if Smalling is the best among the bunch of average players, Jose has to keep and replace others but keep playing Smalling. With Smalling and some of these players' wages, there's no way to go get top quality players who will also require big wages in addition to big transfer fees. Rebuilding a squad takes time if we are not able to throw money at it. It has to be a step by step process. If the board stops backing the rebuild, you get a squad that is not here nor there. This is what we're seeing on the pitch now. We would be in a different place if we got one of the midfielders that we were linked with, a couple of the wingers we were linked with, and defenders we were linked with.
If you think Bailly and Lindelof were brought in to replace Smalling and Jones, you should then look at what other clubs around us competing for the league have spent and are spending on their defensive additions. I see them as futures as backups to who we have and as options for us to play a different setup for different types of opponents.
We need to stop saying Jose spent money on this or that. It should be clear by now who makes the transfer calls. It is Ed. The only player that I can call a definite Jose signing is Zlatan. It was a needed signing although some might argue he's towards his latter stages of his career. He brought intensity, goals, winning mentality, and leadership to the team when we needed it badly.
Edit: Forgot about Matic. That is definitely a Jose signing.
The laugh is on you These are not excuses, just trying to call it like it is and try to inject some objectivity into these threads.I doubt even Jose can think up these excuses you guys make up every day
I bet if we hadn't signed Matic from Chelsea you would have denied him too as he's been pretty underwhelming. Then poor Jose would have spent 3 seasons having signed only one player for himself out of 10.The laugh is on you These are not excuses, just trying to call it like it is and try to inject some objectivity into these threads.
I actually feel that Matic has been very helpful for us. He may not have played his best football so far but have been on fire during parts of the season when our other midfield decides to pitch in as well.I bet if we hadn't signed Matic from Chelsea you would have denied him too as he's been pretty underwhelming. Then poor Jose would have spent 3 seasons having signed only one player for himself out of 10.
Stop deluding yourself, in Jose's first summer he stated that he has given his 4 targets to Woody, beginning of the season he smugly stated that he was specifically happy with that he had gotten 3 of his targets. Beginning of second season he was equally sounding smug when asked about he has always won the title in his second season. Halfway unto the season when all that changed he decided we were crap all along. But yeah keep talking that shite about none of the players he bought being his.I actually feel that Matic has been very helpful for us. He may not have played his best football so far but have been on fire during parts of the season when our other midfield decides to pitch in as well.
You know, I can also tell you to stop deluding yourself but I won't.Stop deluding yourself, in Jose's first summer he stated that he has given his 4 targets to Woody, beginning of the season he smugly stated that he was specifically happy with that he had gotten 3 of his targets. Beginning of second season he was equally sounding smug when asked about he has always won the title in his second season. Halfway unto the season when all that changed he decided we were crap all along. But yeah keep talking that shite about none of the players he bought being his.
Not a problem just isolated to MUFC. This explains what is wrong with football.To emphasize on this point, Matteo Darmian reportedly makes 60,000 pounds a week.
That just explains what's wrong with this club.
Dude, after we signed Zlatan, Bailly and Mkhi Jose himself said he had gotten 3 of the 4 his targets had been signed and the 4th one was being worked on. This is when we were still trying to sign Pogba. This actually happened, yet you sit there talking nonsenseYou know, I can also tell you to stop deluding yourself but I won't.
According to my own experiences in the workplace and literature I have read (I'm doing an MA on leadership), this is not at all how humans operate, either individually or as a collective. Ideas like leadership, company culture, and employee engagement are not just buzzwords, they mean something in relation to how people respond to the situation they find themselves in. Effective leadership can bring out the best in a team, while ineffective or destructive leadership can bring out the worst. Whether you are paid £10/hr or £1,000/hr, I can well understand how people may be unable to produce their best work if they lose faith in the values, vision or methods set out by their superiors.Player Power - How does it even come to this.
If your not happy with your boss you need to just grin and bare it until you find alternative employment, its life. But here we have players downing down tools because of dislike for there boss, surely there has to be some form of punishment that can be handed out to those players that are causing issues. This Pogba / Jose feud should never of been made public and if the player makes it public he is the one to get punished. How are these players determining what goes on in the clubs they represent.
If the manager cant control the situation then others higher up like Woodward need to step in. The club is paying these lot a great deal of money to put a good shift in but the little snowflakes are acting like kids. Where is a Roy Keane when you need one.
You proved my pointOr the fact people (rightly) see Pogba having a better impact going forward for Man Utd than Jose Mourinho.