Player Power

[sugar_kane]

This is the single biggest issue at our club right now and has been allowed to run rife ever since Fergie stepped down.

It kicked in almost immediately with players moaning about not getting chips in the canteen under Moyes, but it really went to another level when Woodward backed both Martial and Pogba against Mourinho.

Now unsurprisingly we're seeing articles like this:
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...g-fighting-support-man-united-players-sources

This whole culture needs gutting from the club, and if I were Ten Hag I'd honestly just go for broke and drop anyone he suspects of not pulling their weight and replace them with Academy players. We're winning feck all this year anyway, he might as well.

Unfortunately there's not a chance Murtough/Arnold step in to deliver a zero tolerance message since they're halfway out the door anyway, and he can't afford to wait until January (or whenever Ratcliffe brings in his people) as he might not even survive until then.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Biggest issue? Maybe

Single? Not a chance

 

[MadMike]

This is the single biggest issue at our club right now and has been allowed to run rife ever since Fergie stepped down.

No, not even remotely.

The single biggest problem by far is the owners/board. The second biggest problem is Manager power, not player power.

 

[Lentwood]

Be amazed how quickly so called "player power" would evaporate if one of our managers showed some proper balls.

There's lads in the Academy that would run through brick walls for the club. If the likes of Sancho, Rashford, Varane, Casemiro, Dalot and Martial can't be bothered, they're out. Send them to train with the u23s and watch their careers fall off a cliff.

Once you tolerate it from one player, you set the tone and send a message that there aren't any real consequences. Then you have a real issue because all of a sudden the tail is wagging the dog.

 

[LittleKingCeadd]

I genuinely think its why Fergie retired when he did, the writing was on the wall as they say.
He saw Rooney publicly criticise the clubs lack of ambition & then rumours of him looking to jump ship to City only to be rewarded with a big contract.

Think he saw the days of when you left United, your football career was never the same and you had to go abroad to one of the "Big 4" (Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve) slowly disappearing.
Once Chelsea/City were hot on the tails of United and could compete financially with them, he saw his power over players diminish.

 

[mu4c_20le]

This whole culture needs gutting from the club, and if I were Ten Hag I'd honestly just go for broke and drop anyone he suspects of not pulling their weight and replace them with Academy players. We're winning feck all this year anyway, he might as well.

What if the academy players are also losing faith in him? You think the likes of Hannibal would fight for him, after getting dropped and cast aside as soon as the injured first teamers return.

 

[MadMike]

Be amazed how quickly so called "player power" would evaporate if one of our managers showed some proper balls.

There's lads in the Academy that would run through brick walls for the club. If the likes of Sancho, Rashford, Varane, Casemiro, Dalot and Martial can't be bothered, they're out. Send them to train with the u23s and watch their careers fall off a cliff.

Once you tolerate it from one player, you set the tone and send a message that there aren't any real consequences. Then you have a real issue because all of a sudden the tail is wagging the dog.

I mean he literally did that with Sancho and now with Varane. Last year he binned Ronaldo. He’s been backed up the board.

The suggestion that the players have too much power is absurd. If the manager could get a tune out of his players, at least the ones he signed, this wouldn’t even remotely be discussed. He signed a new midfield in Casemiro, Mount and Amrabat. He signed a ST, a RW and promoted Garnacho to the LW. If he could get those to play good football no one would give a flying feck about Martial, Sancho etc.

 

[Adisa]

I find it incredible that a persons response to being told to do better is to refuse to work. This is about character.

 

[Red_toad]

This is the single biggest issue at our club right now and has been allowed to run rife ever since Fergie stepped down.

Only constant since Sir Alex retired are the owners, maybe you need to factor that when starting threads.
If it were player power who's been leading that charge for them for over a decade as none are left from his era.

 

[Trequarista10]

I genuinely think its why Fergie retired when he did, the writing was on the wall as they say.
He saw Rooney publicly criticise the clubs lack of ambition & then rumours of him looking to jump ship to City only to be rewarded with a big contract.

Think he saw the days of when you left United, your football career was never the same and you had to go abroad to one of the "Big 4" (Real, Barca, Bayern, Juve) slowly disappearing.
Once Chelsea/City were hot on the tails of United and could compete financially with them, he saw his power over players diminish.

SAF retired when he did because he wanted to spend time with his wife when her twin sister died, its a bit out of order to speculate about other motives.

He didn't give a toss about player power, he threw Rooney under the bus in one of his final interviews and would have happily got rid of him. He wasn't prepared to overpay for the likes of Tevez and Pogba when they and their agents made what he saw as unreasonable demands (and who both proved to be troublesome characters in different ways later on, despite brief success shortly after leaving United).

He competed with, and beat, the oil clubs for a decade, despite the Glazers rinsing the club during that time. He would have carried on beating them if he could have carried on. I suspect he even saw the start of Rooney's physical decline, hence the RVP signing, and playing Rooney in midfield more frequently towards the end. In hindsight we would have been much better placed if we had managed to offload Rooney in 2013 - a decision that would have seemed madness at the time, but the type of ruthless decision that SAF successfuly made throughout his career.

 

[Acheron]

but it really went to another level when Woodward backed both Martial and Pogba against Mourinho.

This is a problem, when the management sides with the players. The players are not always at fault so it's something that needs to be assessed carefully. Then there's also the fact the players are getting pretty substantial contracts or signed for a lot of money. This can also work against the manager as the players are seen as assets to the team and not playing them would reduce their value and he could be pressured to keep playing the star players regardless of team balance.

It shouldn't be a case of getting rid of all the squad, as that's virtually impossible but if the team got rid of players who aren't professional enough, regardless of status it would send a message to the whole squad. Lastly I think you should be more sensible with the player's contracts.

 

[Roboc7]

Failure and mediocrity are not only tolerated but rewarded, players know they can survive and even get extended contracts despite being shit. We have bang average players like Mctominay strolling around, dish out contracts on inflated wages to pretty much anyone and everyone and we sign more deadwood than we sell.

The squad has to be dismantled and there has to be clear and swift consequences for anyone who isn’t good enough and/or doesn’t put the effort in. There is no quick fix unfortunately because club is a big mess, need new DOF, new manager and quite a few new players.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I feel like ETH is halfway to getting somewhere, the club needs to tell the players in private he isn't going anywhere and they 100% back him. It will upset a lot of players but the ones who get upset are the ones we need to leave. In tandem we should be starting high level conversations with agents to know always which managers could be interested (we should do this anyway regardless of how well we're doing to be honest) and look to recoup a lot of fees in sales this Jan/summer to genuinely rebuild the team.

 

[abailey123]

Here they go again leaking to the media to get rid of another manager. Open heart surgery is needed with these pre-Madonna’s. Getting out ran is not the sign of a Manchester United player. Work you back side off for the badge that players have died for!

 

[Compton22]

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Wish every ex player and manager would go off on these players like Matic has done here

 

[Offside]

United have tolerated this mediocrity for years. Players who should have left years ago are still hanging on. Thats what happens when you refuse to pay up for better plans and are unable to sell the crap players you overpaid for. Squad full of toxic crap.

Stories like this are overblown though. Matic comparing with Chelsea…that club was the definition of downing tools for the manager over and over again.

 

[VP89]

I would love to see any player questioning the manager being booted. I genuinely don't give a feck who it is anymore.

 

[Thiagoal]

I don’t understand why it’s always us that gets leaks and player unrest. Even when teams like Chelsea are doing appallingly it’s never to this level. The club has serious issues from top to bottom- imagine this going on under Pep- the players would be shown the door instantly like what happened to Cancelo. Player power has been allowed at United and it rots the club to the core

 

[Lexicon Red Devil]

I find it incredible that a persons response to being told to do better is to refuse to work. This is about character.

It's not simply a case of being told to do better though. If your manager is giving you instructions that have failed to produce results again and again then of course it will be a bit disheartening following those orders. They're not robots.

Saying 'do better' is not going to solve anything. Both praising and scolding players is unlikely to produce results. These actions create a hierarchy and the most successful managers these days are the ones who at least act like they're actually their players equals, not some authority figure ready to crack the whip.

 

[Statue of Limitations]

ETH in, lazy press leaking players out.
Angers me no end, different managers, same shitty attitude from our overpaid players.

Imagine turning in that lack of effort v Newcastle only to turn to the press and whine about the manager.

 

[Compton22]

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Feck. Me. They're scumbags

 

[daveskimufc]

I would love to see any player questioning the manager being booted. I genuinely don't give a feck who it is anymore.

Before there would always be a player or two id make a case for.

I would happily sell them all and start again. Even garnacho and mainoo who I have massive hopes for, I don't want them to get this malaise that our current first team gives off.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Ten Hag has no credibility if he starts Rashford after Newcastle. He was that bad and disgraceful.

 

[Catt]

I would love to see any player questioning the manager being booted. I genuinely don't give a feck who it is anymore.

Yep

 

[Mr Smith]

Be amazed how quickly so called "player power" would evaporate if one of our managers showed some proper balls.

There's lads in the Academy that would run through brick walls for the club. If the likes of Sancho, Rashford, Varane, Casemiro, Dalot and Martial can't be bothered, they're out. Send them to train with the u23s and watch their careers fall off a cliff.

Once you tolerate it from one player, you set the tone and send a message that there aren't any real consequences. Then you have a real issue because all of a sudden the tail is wagging the dog.

It's not as simple as that though. You can just send half a dozen first-team players to the reserves, and the reason we know that is that no manager has ever done it. And Ten Hag has hardly shown a lack of balls dealing with big players, look at what he's done to Ronaldo, Sancho, Varane, etc. If anything I'd argue he's shown a lack of tact. I'm an organisational psychologist, and I can tell you from experience that a toxic culture is very difficult for one leader to overturn overnight.

 

[SirAF]

. I suspect he even saw the start of Rooney's physical decline, hence the RVP signing, and playing Rooney in midfield more frequently towards the end. In hindsight we would have been much better placed if we had managed to offload Rooney in 2013 - a decision that would have seemed madness at the time, but the type of ruthless decision that SAF successfuly made throughout his career.

For sure, I'm still adamant that Fergie told the press about Rooney "asking away" on his final day to set it up so Moyes could get rid of Rooney without much backlash. The fecking eejit and Woodward had other ideas though.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Biggest issue? Maybe

Single? Not a chance

Root of every on field issue. Yes.

They don't like to be told to do more.
Ferguson would have fecked them all out

 

[bosnian_red]

Meh. I don't know if I'd call it the issue. The manager can just... Drop these players if they aren't doing what he is asking of them or working hard.

What reason did Ten Hag to keep Rashford and Martial on at the start of the 2nd half? A strong manager should have subbed them off as he needs results and performances, and those 2 put in complete stinkers. Why did he wait to go behind to take them off?

Besides. Performances like this weekend wasn't a specific incident of players not working hard. It was the exact same performance we've seen when playing away to any top half team (top 12 actually). It was the same weaknesses, it was opponents beating us in the same way. It was painfully bad instructions that put players in bad positions, don't give them a set up to build up, don't give them a cohesive pressing structure (and give opponents easy outs). If we see the same shit even last season when confidence and belief was up, I promise you it's not players downing tools. It's being out coached and belief eventually dropping.

 

[JagUTD]

Ah shit! Here we go again.

Rule 1 of Manchester United. Never ask the players to step up.

 

[Trigg]

The players at this football club have far too much power. As soon as the going gets tough they get a manager sacked and the players get a reprieve

It’s a shambles and complete bollocks to be honest.

It’s happened with every manager post Sir Alex.

If I’m Ten Hag and players were revolting I’d drop everyone of them who’s not on board and explain the reasoning the bunch of snakes aren’t playing.

 

[Jacob]

"Ten Haag has lost the dressing room"

So get rid of the dressing room then.

 

[JagUTD]

"Ten Haag has lost the dressing room"

So get rid of the dressing room then.

Jesus, Old Trafford is worse than we thought if the manager can't even find the dressing room. Can't even afford to print out some arrows I bet either.

 

[Acquire Me]

"Ten Haag has lost the dressing room"

So get rid of the dressing room then.

He should. So many idiots in our squad. Will not change before the club changes its ways. Hopefully things will move in the right direction with Ineos and Sir Jim.

 

[saivet]

Player power isn't a thing unique to United, it's just the reality of football. A manager has to manage the personalities in the squad as if any manager loses that trust it's curtains.

I think losing the entire squad is an indictment of the manager. Pep has had his fair share of issues at City, even two of his key players in Walker and Bernardo have had their own rumours of wanting to leave and not being happy with game time. Pep managed those players accordingly, shifted out some and won the confidence of those players back.

When shit gets bad, it's natural the players look to the manager to sort things out and if they lack faith, results dip as a result.

The likes of Varane and Casemiro have been model professionals at Madrid, seems both aren't too happy with ETH. I think rather than always looking at the perceived attitudes of players we have to focus on what the management team is doing to keep them motivated and confident.

 

[davidmichael]

That’s because we’ve never had the correct structure in place which whether we’re successful on the pitch or not it appears Ratcliffe is going to put in place, for too long players knew they could throw a manager under the bus and he’d be sacked.

Having a Sporting Director like Paul Mitchell, a CEO like Blanc and a Director Of Performance like Brailsford above a head coach means that we shouldn’t have the same continuous problem, that group working with a Head Of Recruitment and Head Of Scouting would mean a proper team to not just look at the talent side of players but also the mental side and character side too.

 

[JagUTD]

I think if the club doesn't buckle and supports ETH, he will come through this. He's the guy who kicked Ronaldo out afterall.

 

[frostbite]

Another meaningless myth. Similar to "players downed tools".

ETH picked up fights with Ronaldo, De Gea, Varane, Sancho. Two of these players are not in the club anymore, the other two are not playing. Where is this mythical "player power"?

ETH will be sacked. The reason is not the players, the reason is that he is not a good manager. This job proved to be too big for him.

 

[Bastian]

Another meaningless myth. Similar to "players downed tools".

ETH picked up fights with Ronaldo, De Gea, Varane, Sancho. Two of these players are not in the club anymore, the other two are not playing. Where is this mythical "player power"?

ETH will be sacked. The reason is not the players, the reason is that he is not a good manager. This job proved to be too big for him.

That's so nuanced and contextually put together.

 

[In Rainbows]

Player power isn't a thing unique to United, it's just the reality of football. A manager has to manage the personalities in the squad as if any manager loses that trust it's curtains.

What's unique to United's player power is that United go on relegation level form before the manager gets sacked. That type of player power is not normal at the big clubs. The only other club that has happened to is Chelsea. Most managers get sacked at other big clubs because of league position that has fairly consistent results season to season (small swings, high standards), but it's usually not accompanied by this type of form that has such wild swings in form. This team has shown multiple times that it can climb to 2nd, or 3rd, and drop to a level that is laughably bad.

 

[Someone]

Player power isn't a thing unique to United, it's just the reality of football. A manager has to manage the personalities in the squad as if any manager loses that trust it's curtains.

I think losing the entire squad is an indictment of the manager. Pep has had his fair share of issues at City, even two of his key players in Walker and Bernardo have had their own rumours of wanting to leave and not being happy with game time. Pep managed those players accordingly, shifted out some and won the confidence of those players back.

When shit gets bad, it's natural the players look to the manager to sort things out and if they lack faith, results dip as a result.

The likes of Varane and Casemiro have been model professionals at Madrid, seems both aren't too happy with ETH. I think rather than always looking at the perceived attitudes of players we have to focus on what the management team is doing to keep them motivated and confident.

Agree 100%.