MiceOnMeth
Full Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2014
- Messages
- 1,862
Was RVN world class in 02-03?
g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });
No way.IMO Beckham was and so was Giggs
This. And "the conversation" usually gets settled by making a well functioning XI as opposed to the usual mess a tournament XI is.I define "world class" as that if you were naming a best XI in the world, they'd be part of the conversation but may not make the team.
Vidic was better from 08/09 onwards. Rio was better before that, but his back injury dropped him down a level or two and Vida took over as the superior defender.Rio was injured
ShockingI'm going to be found hiding under a rock, beaten to a pulp and tossed into freezing water for this, but to me Rooney wasn't world class. He should have been, but imho he never quite reached that height.
He had all the tools in his early years to be world class, but in his teens he was hot tempered and a little inconsistent, and unfortunately his inconsistencies carried on. Even in his best seasons he was always a little patchy, and when he was about to hit his prime, his body started to let him down a little. More accurately, he started to let his body down.
In RvP's last season at Arsenal and first season at United, he was the better player of him and Rooney. After that, Suarez (pains me to say it), Aguero were better than Rooney. Before that, you had Drogba, Henry etc who were better. He was never the best striker in the PL, although he was considered one of the best players for several seasons, rightly so. One of the best does not guarantee you world class recognition though. For me, he just isn't quite there.
Beckham was definitely world class from 99-01. For those three seasons he was one of the best players in the world. Before that and after that not so much, but his three year peak was incredible.No way.
The one sure fire world class player in that 99 team was Keane. You can make a case for Schmeichel & Stam ( maybe) but no one else.All very good players mind.
The whole midfield was world class along with stam and schmeichs.No way.
The one sure fire world class player in that 99 team was Keane. You can make a case for Schmeichel & Stam ( maybe) but no one else.All very good players mind.
You're not gonna find many here agreeing with you on Beckham and GiggsNo way.
The one sure fire world class player in that 99 team was Keane. You can make a case for Schmeichel & Stam ( maybe) but no one else.All very good players mind.
Sorry butHazard.
Most of his England goals were against dross in qualifiers to be fair. I don't think his England career helps in his case for being world class bar euro 2004I mean like - fair enough this is clearly going to be a controversial thread for a lot of reasons but Wayne Rooney was England and Manchester Uniteds all time top scorer, if that's not world class striker material I don't know what is.
Think Rooney had seasons where he was absolutely world class (2007, 2010, 2012, second half of 2011) and other seasons where he wasn't. It wasn't a consistent level of being world class. And the peaks and troughs was mainly due to him sacrificing to make other players in the team better. When he led the line for Manchester United, he was a monster.I mean like - fair enough this is clearly going to be a controversial thread for a lot of reasons but Wayne Rooney was England and Manchester Uniteds all time top scorer, if that's not world class striker material I don't know what is.
It is world class material, and I said it was a world class career. I don't think he would have been top scorer without Sir Alex. In any case, he is not England top scorer anymore, and will surely fall down the list more. As for United, for a club of our size I actually think that number is not a very high one. If you imagine Ronaldo stayed for another 5 years, Ruud too, Rooney would not have the record.I mean like - fair enough this is clearly going to be a controversial thread for a lot of reasons but Wayne Rooney was England and Manchester Uniteds all time top scorer, if that's not world class striker material I don't know what is.
Oh don't worry, as I said in my later post, I think we all have a player we rate less than everyone else does. For me it's Hazard. Think he was a top top player but the consistency and other facets of his game will always have him just the level below world class for me.Sorry but
Yes mate I was 15 years old when Rooney joined and became a supporter after 99 (immediately of course!)That's absolutely ridiculous. His lifestyle had caught up with him by the time Fergie retired and Fergie was planning on getting rid but Moyes kept him on.
Were you around back then?
Nah its fair enough silent it's all a game of opinions and of course people rate players in different ways and what's world class to some is not to others just on the hazard point though there was a period where he was easily one of the best players/forwards in the world and almost unplayable at times it may not have been for an extended time though I agree.Oh don't worry, as I said in my later post, I think we all have a player we rate less than everyone else does. For me it's Hazard. Think he was a top top player but the consistency and other facets of his game will always have him just the level below world class for me.
I do agree that Terry's top level is a bit overrated, but you seem to be underrating him a lot.John Terry. Massively overrated player, beyond me why so many thought he was the best defender around for so many years. Made to look better than he was by Gallas, Carvalho and Rio for England. Plus having Makalele sitting in front of him. Big lump.
I think he’s definitely always had the raw footballing talent to be truly world class, it’s just that he’s lacked the drive that all the true greats have and has been badly hampered by injury. Talent alone is never enough.Luke Shaw
You don't hear it often anymore, but a couple of years ago many were calling him world class. I like Luke and think he's a good player. But, I never thought he was world class.
Beckham was the best player in the world in 1999. Yes I said it. Came second in the balon dor that year only to rivaldo, and should have won it.No way.
The one sure fire world class player in that 99 team was Keane. You can make a case for Schmeichel & Stam ( maybe) but no one else.All very good players mind.
Commentators and the press always over rate those playing for a London club.John Terry. Massively overrated player, beyond me why so many thought he was the best defender around for so many years. Made to look better than he was by Gallas, Carvalho and Rio for England. Plus having Makalele sitting in front of him. Big lump.
I agree that he was. It is strange to observe his reputation gradually declining over time in collective memory, while Scholes seems to improve every year that passes. I'm also glad to see people acknowledge that he was a hard-working player with a great engine in his prime, not just a winger who could hit crosses. In my eyes, more deserving of the Ballon d'Or (and the high praise that goes with it) than another right-winger who won it around that time, and whose biggest achievement the year he was awarded the prize was getting a transfer. Anyway, since the definition of world-class isn't written in stone (opinions vary), perhaps it would be more interesting to see which players among those who have been labelled world-class seem to be a tad overrated and which among those who didn't quite manage to achieve that status seem to be a bit underrated.Beckham was the best player in the world in 1999. Yes I said it. Came second in the balon dor that year only to rivaldo, and should have won it.
played 55 games that season, assisting 20 goals and scoring 9. He played 10 games in the champions league that year and assisted goals in 8 of them. He didn’t even play in the bronby game where we scored 6 goals. He was key in many pivotal moments that season, the assists were like works of art. Just a thing of beauty. My fave being the Keane bullet header assist against juventus.
he also was pivotal in both champions league final goals. Without him, we didn’t score either of them!
but it wasn’t just the goals and assists (stats) his engine that season was unbelievable, I believe he played more games than anyone that year? I could be wrong
All in all, Just a magical player with a wand of a right foot. Certainly world class in his peak.
I mean he won the league after Gallas Makelele and Carvalho were long gone (and while Rio was stinking the place out at QPR)John Terry. Massively overrated player, beyond me why so many thought he was the best defender around for so many years. Made to look better than he was by Gallas, Carvalho and Rio for England. Plus having Makalele sitting in front of him. Big lump.
No ever said Cantona was world class.I know this is going to be controversial, but was Cantona world class? He's obviously revered not only at United but also in England for making us into a the dominant team, which coincided with the exponential growth in popularity of the league.
The reality though is that the EPL was the fourth best league in the world at that time, their the level was not as high as the other European leagues, and United were also not very competitive in European competition. Don't remember him having an impact in international competition as well, though he was being suspended by every other manager as well. In the grand scheme of world football at that time, can he be considered world class?
I only saw his last season at United so can't say to have watched his peak.
Well this is the whole ridiculousness of the debate because nobody can ever agree on the definition of World Class and your definition seems to be narrower than most.Yes mate I was 15 years old when Rooney joined and became a supporter after 99 (immediately of course!)
I was not just referring to lifestyle. For what its worth, I believe his lifestyle would have caught up to him earlier, and significantly earlier, if this is when it managed to happen even under Fergie. I don't think I understand what you mean with the Moyes point, but Fergie was definitely correct in planning to get rid. The great man would not have publicised that in his last home match, with no personal benefit at all to him, if he didn't think it was 100% necessary and important for the clubs sakes.
As we then saw though, with genius Ed at the helm, that was probably the start of players hanging the club over a barrel and the no good culture. Deserved for ignoring Sir Alex or thinking they knew better than him.
In any case, I know many view him as world class. He is not objectively world class though, that's for sure. I tend to withhold the world class tag for objectively, undeniably, world class players. R9, Cristiano, Messi, Zidane, Scholes, etc.
Think you mean tendency?His tentatives to brag are some of the most pathetic things I've ever seen in football(which isn't exactly a universo known for its wit), even Griezmann is less embarassing.
Hazard was consistentOh don't worry, as I said in my later post, I think we all have a player we rate less than everyone else does. For me it's Hazard. Think he was a top top player but the consistency and other facets of his game will always have him just the level below world class for me.
Irwin was clearly a world class fullback, but maybe not in 99. He was getting a bit old at that time, but earlier on, he was. There wasnt many better fullbacks out thereNo way.
The one sure fire world class player in that 99 team was Keane. You can make a case for Schmeichel & Stam ( maybe) but no one else.All very good players mind.
At his peak, probably the best striker in the world.RVP, great striker but never world class.
Cantona was top 3 in the Ballon d’Or in 1993 which people forget. Football was less about who did well in the CL as the only factor in non WC years. I’d say he was considered world class.I know this is going to be controversial, but was Cantona world class? He's obviously revered not only at United but also in England for making us into a the dominant team, which coincided with the exponential growth in popularity of the league.
The reality though is that the EPL was the fourth best league in the world at that time, their the level was not as high as the other European leagues, and United were also not very competitive in European competition. Don't remember him having an impact in international competition as well, though he was being suspended by every other manager as well. In the grand scheme of world football at that time, can he be considered world class?
I only saw his last season at United so can't say to have watched his peak.
I don’t think he was obviously better than Villa, Aguero, Falcao or Ibrahimovic at those few years of his peak and then his peak didn’t last very long.At his peak, probably the best striker in the world.
Lukaku has never been world class. What on earth are you mates on aboutLukaku is the one for me.
I had rows with a few of my mates who were convinced he was world class.
They all pointed to his time in Italy and his international record and said I was just bitter because he didn't work out at United. But I was the same when we were signing him and always thought he was a flat track bully without the strength of character for the big occasion.
I will say to the OP, I never thought Gerrard or Neymar were world class either.