Dybala or James Rodriguez for me.
Players considered World Class who you don't think are World Class
- Thread starter LawCharltonBest
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I have the same thoughts sometimes. I don't want it to be true.
He only managed that two seasons really though, didn't he?
Yeah, World Class for two seasons and a very talented, injury prone player prior to that. He was very good for Moyes too when fit, but then the injuries mounted up again which coincided with the club's general decline. Definitely a World Class player though, just for not as long as he was entitled to be.
Add Coutinho to the list of nice looking but ultimately disappointing number tens.
True.
I think so. He was easily the most influential player in the squad and grew up with all talk being about Cantona. Sure the epl wasnt the best in the world but it wasnt a farmes league either. People have different definitions of what world class means. Im not into that you are in the top 3 in your position in the world because with eras you have droughts with lack of quality in certain positions. Like Lukkaku might have been one of the best strikers in his age bracket but thats because the drought of great strikers in their prime years.
But did he have world class skillset? Definitely. Mentality yeah apart from his temper.
I know.
Maybe sometimes you can narrow it down to not consistently world class. Like De Gea went on runs where he was our best player for several seasons but was prone to howlers as well.
Coutinho was world class at Liverpool but not later
I don‘t think he was. He was very good and excelled in a set up that perfectly embraced his strengths and hid away his weaknesses. But I don’t think he ever was world class.
But that’s quite subjective. I think if you want to call that period of his world class, you have some arguments there.
Was there a better crosser and/or set piece taker in the world than Beckham in his prime?
Agreed. Never saw him as world class. His constant through balls even when it's clear it isn't even remotely on reminds me of Bruno
Juninho for free kicks. Don’t know about anyone else.
Which Juninho?
Pernambucano.
There are all-time players in here being declared not world class - a class below, mind.
Fascinating to read through.
Fascinating to read through.
Becks is the best all time crosser, among the best long passers ever and yeah apart from Juninho no one was better at set pieces. Worked his socks off and was a proper team player. Only Figo was a better RW at the time.
Yeah, if nothing else it's interesting how different people's definition of 'world class' seems to range from 'one of the best players ever' to 'decent contributor to a top team'.
Tubby lad at Napoli. Gash.
Trent Arnold, too lacking in the fundamentals of his position to be considered as such.
Fabregas, pretty good but there were so many quality midfielders in that era that I'd take over him so not up there really.
Fabregas, pretty good but there were so many quality midfielders in that era that I'd take over him so not up there really.
Beckham came 2nd in the Ballon d'Or in 99, how can the second best player in the world not be world class? He also came 10th in 2000 and 4th in 2001.
So three top 10 finishes in the Ballon d'Or between 99 - 01 with two being top 5 finishes. Looks like he was world class.
Regarding direct free kicks, Zico, Maradona, Platini and Messi were better. Beckham was better than all of them(including Juninho) at crossing from dead balls though.
I was talking during his time. And i still thinks was better when it comes to set pieces overall
Finishing second in the Ballon d'Or doesn't mean you are the second best player in the world. Jorginho was third 2021 and many agree he wasn't even a top 3 player for Chelsea(despite the UCL trophy, they were not exactly a dominant team either).
No, in fact during my lifetime I'm struggling to think of anyone better, Messi maybe?
Debatable imo, but he probably has too many things against his career to be someone that would be widely rated like that, especially as the years go on. It's not really about talent imo, but football's a sport where too many fans are on the conservative side of assessing these things...if you don't have enough team accomplishments, or play in exactly the current strongest league/teams, there's always plenty ready to dismiss you entirely.
He was recognised in the '80s as potentially the next French creative attacking great by the likes of Platini, but was in danger of wasting his talent until he moved to England. It's funny to read about his time in the French league where he seemed to be involved in different drama every season, which had resulted in never settling anywhere.
- Was one of the leaders during a time of failure for France internationally, with some notable flops in there...Going out without a win at Euro '92, despite winning all of their qualifiers in a pretty tough group, and being one of the favourites; the late collapse during the '94 WC qualifiers where they were eliminated at the last minute by Bulgaria when a draw would have been enough. Counter-point to that could be that Cantona did generally play well individually and had a good record. It was also a transitional period where France took a gamble on the entirely inexperienced Platini to manage most of it, which didn't work.
- English league not being perceived as strongly during his time there. The league had to restart after the ban and didn't get back into the top 4 coefficient until 2001.
- perception that United were not as good in Europe when he was the leader and improved after he retired. While true on the face of it, this ignores the issues faced with the strict foreigner rules of the time. Or that he only played a substantial role in one campaign, where they got to the semi-final. He wasn't involved in the upset uefa cup losses against Torpedo/Rotor Volgograd, and was suspended for most of the 94/95 group stage failure; that indiscipline is something he can be criticised for, but for the actual failures on the field you need look elsewhere in a lot of those losses.
But Beckham also finished top 10 three times and top 5 twice. Jorginho finished 3rd once, then he was no where near even being nominated after that. One nomination is sometimes luck and a very good season. But several times at the higher end of the nominations means you have been consistently one of the best players in the world.
Also Beckham was probably the best player in the world in 99 anyway, other players had more ability but Beckham was the one performing at the highest level performance wise that season.
If it was unfair one time, what prevents it to be again? Furthermore, Beckham was probably the biggest name in football at that time, which obviously has an impact.
Well, no point insisting on that, mas not even with the most powerful microscope in the world I could see how Beckham was individually better than Rivaldo that year. United didn't win more than Barcelona that season because Beckham was better than Rivaldo, but because they were a much better team. Rivaldo was obviously a much more skilled player and had his best year in 1999(although 2001 was great too).
AFAIK that wasn't really a thing back then, I think Cantona was a notch below world class overall but his influence on a team was definitely as good as it gets
Barcelona were knocked out in the CL group stage, in a group including Man United and Beckham btw. Rivaldo and Barca underperformed in the best club competition. Beckham made his team mates better and had a heavy influence on the team winning the treble and especially the CL.
Of course Rivaldo was going to have better goals and assist stats because he was one of the main attackers for Barca, Beckham played as a wide midfielder not as an attacker. Better individual stats doesn't mean Rivaldo was the better player that season either, Beckham was more influential to his side.
I know one thing for sure, Rivaldo was definitely a world class actor compared to Beckham
Last edited:
I don't like him either. I would very much prefer Beckham, who seems like a nice fella, to be the better player, but it wasn't that way unfortunately.I know one thing for sure, Rivaldo was definitely a world class actor compared to Beckmam
Mbappe. £200m a year he’s costing PSG in wages. They could have an entire team of world class players for that money. The hype around him is crazy.
I was using this site, but i'm not sure how much is a historical archive of uefa calculations from 55/56 onward, or if its a case of applying the recent methods retroactively.
https://kassiesa.net/uefa/index.html
David Silva. He was maybe the 6th best Spanish midfielder at the time and some talk him up as the best foreign player the PL has ever had. He's barely in Cities top 5. Barca and Real never went for him.
He is overrated. Makes it even more annoying that every year we have to listen to discussions about him going to Real and then staying put.
He is overrated. Makes it even more annoying that every year we have to listen to discussions about him going to Real and then staying put.
For me what made him so special was how good his decision making was, even at a young age. He just had that knack of making the right decision at the right time. He loved to assist as much as score which I think is missed in the modern right wingers we have. Decision making is a art form as itself. Imagine him on the right now days pinging balls into hojlund? When you think about productivity and compare to let’s say, Antony, rashford, garnacho.. (players we have now on the right) it’s night and day and it reminds you how good he was.
I’d swap him for any of our right wingers any day of the week! We’d also be out of the 0 goal difference we’re in and I’d put money on that.
The more I read about Roberto Carlos being talked about in football forums in English and football forums in Spanish (no matter what team the user supports), the more I realize opinions on him can be clearly divided between those who followed his career closely from 1996 until 2007 and those who watched his games very sporadically and especially at the end of his career at Real Madrid due to Beckham's move, when Internet started to become more popular.
In the first kind of forums it won't be surprising to find opinions like yours. In the second ones you will find none of that, (and when I say none I mean none). Instead you will find some of the most glowing and superlative descriptions.
Can such a difference be explained by a radically different understanding of football among fans from different countries? I don't think so, it is simply a lack of knowledge, the same lack of knowledge that other users have shown when talking about players like Davids, Puyol or Totti. It is simply impossible that so many people watch that many complete games consistently, so the level we appreciate from certain players will always be distorted by cliches and prejudices.
Last edited:
Rafael Leão - an overrated and frustrating player for me
A fully fit Neymar is easily world class. That he hasn't recieved the recognition is down to injuries, poor off the field decisions and stupidity on the pitch.
Van Dijk.