Yes. Stuck with top 4 battles with United instead of winning league titles and a million champions leagues with Madrid. Not that the fans remember his choice now that Henderson is somehow the hot young thing.
Players like Harry Kane: Do you respect them for going down with the ship, or are they wasting their careers?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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A player like Matt Le Tissier is easier to understand and respect - because he was "just" very good - but never close to world class. With Harry Kane - playing for this Spurs-side where he is so much better than anyone else (apart from Son) - it's hard to understand. He is good enough to play for any team in the world - and unless they magically beat City in the league-cup - he will be 28 years old and without a single trophy.
He could easily go on to be the best player ever, not to have won a single medal. I would love to say I respect that choice - but seeing how this Spurs-side will never compete for the title again during his career, he should leave.
He could easily go on to be the best player ever, not to have won a single medal. I would love to say I respect that choice - but seeing how this Spurs-side will never compete for the title again during his career, he should leave.
Curious to hear your answer on Robson and RVN.
Robson was before my time, doesn't sound like he had much success in his prime years
A PL win with Spurs would be a greater achievement than 3 with City.
Shearer winning one with Blackburn is a very underrated feat imo.
But as soon as Kane starts doubting the project at Spurs, he should leave
Shearer winning one with Blackburn is a very underrated feat imo.
But as soon as Kane starts doubting the project at Spurs, he should leave
How have you worked that one out?
I respect him. For his ability. For his demeanour and how he carries himself. Whatever he decides is up to him. He’s class regardless of his decision.
They're nowhere near the level of Kane.Fair play to him, he'll go down as a club legend. Hopefully, he can at least get some kind of trophy if he sticks with them. If he ends up breaking Shearer's record it'll always be a black mark how he never won a trophy.
Don’t give him too much credit, he was a dodgy tax machine away from leaving for them things and an ungodly amount of money then changed his mind.
I love DDG and his MANY contributions to our recent history, but let’s not pretend the lad bled red. The same mark hangs over Rooney.
Club legends but in a different sense to the likes of Robson et al.
I’d take him at United in a heartbeat but Levy is always the obstacle and will price him out of a move. Levy will only budge if Kane agitates and pushes for a move, which will inevitably burn the bridge with some Spurs fans. Kane seems to be in a lose-lose situation right now in trying to preserve his legacy at Spurs while still trying to push for his own goals and ambitions, which Spurs have shown they can’t match.
A
And is one of the highest paid players in the world for it, let alone for a keeper....
Any move he made would come with a hefty payrise. Both club and agent would be well aware of that before even considering putting up an official bid. Kane is being underpaid by some margin relative to what he could be earning elsewhere, which is admirable in itself that he would stay where he is despite that.
A big difference between someone like Kane and 'martyrs' like De Gea or Pogba is that the latter were/are being compensated heavily for their teams' woes and lack of competitiveness at the very top end of the footballing totem. They were/are being paid a king's ransom to keep hold of their services whilst Kane is being underpaid whilst his club fails to deliver relative to his ability and what he himself could be aspiring to.
In modern parlance, there really aren't many players in a similar position to Kane as the vast majority who aren't in the highest competitive environment in direct line for CL's and league titles, are being consoled as top bracket earners, which Kane is nowhere near.
Whether you regard him as the best striker in the world or not, he certainly belongs in that bracket with the esteemed few that are in the conversation for top spot, and the pay disparity between him and the rest of said company, I suspect, would be eye-opening.
Robson would have been regarded in a wholly different light by the masses if he had gone off to Italy and competed in the most respected and regarded league of all-time. His England career was ruined by injuries and his legacy as a United great is, of course fantastic and amazing for us, but in the greater scheme, he is not the household legend he would have been across the world because he chose to stay and perform in sides that were far beneath him. Bryan Robson was the equal of any 2-way midfielder during his pomp, but the amount of people who will automatically place him in that *top* tier is far fewer than it should be.
One could also say that the way he was living (heavy drinking culture), there was no way he'd even consider going to an almost tee-total, clean living footballing environment. He's a United and British legend, but his world-regarded legacy suffers for his decision to carry United.
De Gea has had a career that splits wildly at the point he got that insane deal from us. At his peak, we were letting him down as the form he was displaying had many here even comparing him to Schmeichel, but in his decline to what he has been for the past few years, he has been paid in accordance to a level he's not close to anymore - he earned the plaudits and pay hikes and then things went south, but ultimately, he, in personal terms, has at least made a fortune via optimal earnings he could not get elsewhere. With the dichotomy of his career, he's harder to call than players who only decline via age or injury (see Robson, or indeed Ruud).
I don't think Ruud's situation is the same as the other two you have put forward - he was never downright better than the teams he was in. He was our star striker in a team full of star players in other positions. There's no point in time where he was head and shoulders our best player like the other two.
I think it is plain stupid. You have one career and if you have got the talent, you should be absolutely raring to take up new challenges and make sure that they sing your glories for years to come. One man club only makes somewhat sense when it is a top club in a top league. Else outside the club or maybe the country, no one will remember you.
It's possible to admire and respect a player for his loyalty while also thinking it a waste of talent. People are motivated by different things, and not everyone will be happy to put personal achievement or money before loyalty.
Regarding Pogba and to a lesser degree De Gea, I think it goes both ways, they were held back by the team, but they were also expected to be difference makers and take the team up a notch or two (and were payed as such), which they haven't.
Regarding Pogba and to a lesser degree De Gea, I think it goes both ways, they were held back by the team, but they were also expected to be difference makers and take the team up a notch or two (and were payed as such), which they haven't.
I think the fascination with trophies is a bit much when you're comparing an individual performances. If Kane personally wants to a better shot at winning trophies, he should leave Spurs. But if he wants to leave a legacy, staying at Spurs isn't too bad. Winning PL at City (for example) doesn't add much to his personal repertoire.
But in terms of how history will remember him, I see him in a similar light to Shearer, who's legacy isn't really impacted by a lack of trophies. He's still regarded as one of the best strikers in PL history. Naturally, at a global level, a lack of consistent UCL knockout appearances has hurt him.
Having said that, if Kane actually wants to move, he's made an extremely stupid decision to sign that contract without a release clause.
But in terms of how history will remember him, I see him in a similar light to Shearer, who's legacy isn't really impacted by a lack of trophies. He's still regarded as one of the best strikers in PL history. Naturally, at a global level, a lack of consistent UCL knockout appearances has hurt him.
Having said that, if Kane actually wants to move, he's made an extremely stupid decision to sign that contract without a release clause.
He is earning half of what he could expect at any other club. Knowing your worth doesn't make your life "just about money". Even if he wants to stay at Spurs, he should be earning much more for what he brings to the table for Spurs, keeping them relevant while they pay off their billion pound stadium.
And if he were to leave, Spurs will no doubt command a 100 million plus fee for him which in turn will limit the choices of his next destination. He has given his club the power to dictate his career for an amount which is much less than his market value. Stupid on the part of Kane and his agent in my opinion.
a) They don't have the money to fight a club like City and they really only have Kane who is worth a lot of money if they decide to sell him - but that will destroy any chance they have of reaching C.L in the near future.
b) They have a squad where very few players will improve with age. They have roughly 10 players who are 27-34 year old - and just 5-6 who are under 25
c) They have a manager who never stays more than 3-4 years at a club and who often leaves the club in a mess.
d) They have Kane and Son who have been brilliant this year, and they are still not even close to being good enough. That alone says something about how poor the rest of the players are.
If we assume Kane has 4-5 seasons left at the absolute highest level - and by that I mean the world-class level where he is now, I can't imagine even in my wildest dreams this Spurs-side fighting for the title in the next 5 years.
Only amongst idiots and casuals.
Seriously, we need to stop thinking footballers care about whether casuals who don't know shit about the sport, think they're the greatest of all time.
Coaches, and knowledgeable fans, know what's up, regardless of trophies won or teams played for.
Again, this is only applicable to idiots.
I know a little about the game. I am not based in the UK. I am not a Spurs fan. 10 years from now I am sure that barring some severe head accident, I will remember Harry Kane.
Sasha from Southern California may not know who Harry Kane is now. But she's an idiot (football wise) so who gives a feck?
Some players just love where they are, look at someone like Totti. It's rare but it does happen
Yea mate, Matt Le Tissier who?
Also, people underestimate the importance of your family being happy and comfortable. When you hand kids, it's not easy to move to a new country and start a new life for them.
Kane is playing in the best league in the world, playing for a top national team and getting a good amount of money. It's not necessary that everyone will be chasing after trophies. There is a particular joy that comes for playing for your boyhood club in a city you love. I can respect a person who wants to continue this life.
Yeah but what about online draft games in 20 years? What if people don't know who Kane is?Yea mate, Matt Le Tissier who?
Also, people underestimate the importance of your family being happy and comfortable. When you hand kids, it's not easy to move to a new country and start a new life for them.
Kane is playing in the best league in the world, playing for a top national team and getting a good amount of money. It's not necessary that everyone will be chasing after trophies. There is a particular joy that comes for playing for your boyhood club in a city you love. I can respect a person who wants to continue this life.
For me he proves that it is possible to be highly regarded despite not playing for one of the best teams in Europe. He's regularly selected in all-time XIs for Manchester United and England and beyond these shores seems to get a fair reception - 14th in this list or 21st here - ahead of plenty of others who operated to the highest level for the best club teams in the world. Unless of course you believe he should be placed alongside Matthaus and Rijkaard in the very top tier, but in which case you could probably make similar arguments for another 10-20 box-to-box midfielders.
The idea that staying at a club (rather than seeking a big transfer move) is something that may earn you the disrespect of random football fans - is certainly...modern.
Yea I'm sure he would have been on 40p a week at Madrid
Stay at Spurs, win nothing, be a Spurs legend > Go to City, win something, but on the back of financial doping
That depends.
If it's a player that I would like to see at Bayern, he's a naive fool who's wasting his golden years because of his outdated romanticism.
If it's a player I don't think my club really needs, he's a shining beacon of loyalty and one of the last players to uphold the true values of football.
Simple, really.
If it's a player that I would like to see at Bayern, he's a naive fool who's wasting his golden years because of his outdated romanticism.
If it's a player I don't think my club really needs, he's a shining beacon of loyalty and one of the last players to uphold the true values of football.
Simple, really.
I think it's great. More world class players should stay loyal to their club. Would make the sport a lot more interesting.
Sounds about right
Not every player is loyal to the place that started him off as a professional footballer and therefore I'm super envied of players that stick with the clubs even when they're having bad times. Spurs fans must be really grateful to Kane and I'm pretty sure they are. He's a wonderful footballer and he will stay with Spurs for a long time. Although the decisions taken by Levy to let go off Pochettino to bring in Jose was purely erratic and unforgivable. Jose will win something with this team at some point if he continues to stick around beyond this season but he will for sure bring a divide between the players and disrupt the team. He has done it almost everywhere he's been recently and I don't think this pattern will change any soon. I think the Spurs fans already know what he does behind the scenes and how things have changed within the club. When Jose doesn't like a player, he will slowly but surely disappear and a player like Alli is left out of the team but a player like Bale who has openly said that he wants to head back to Madrid at the end of the season gets more game time. That's just ridiculous. I hope there is a protest to get Jose out of Tot Spurs as quickly as possible because I think they have a good team and they're capable of some wonderful aggressive football but not with Jose at the helm.
I respect it. Don't really know why you wouldn't unless you're bitter that he isn't joining your club.
He's 57 goals behind Greaves' all time Spurs goals record so maybe a couple more years to get that?
I tend to agree - its not as if he wont be aware he could probably force a move and increase his chances of wining something so if hes happy to stay at spurs then good for him
Perhaps he will change his mind an do an RVP one day and that would also be fair enough but if for now he and his family are happy then he's no reason to move
On a individual basis he could still end up as Englands highest scorer and possibly even get shearers PL record.... if he could achieve one of those - possibly even both then probably that would be a bigger achievement than if spurs win the fa cup or something similar
Spot on about RVN, but anyway he won the title at United in a side regularly competing for the title and also narrowly missing out on a Champs league final. I’d hardly call that wasting his career.
Again not all people measure their worth with money. Maybe things like a supportive environment are much more important to him. I find it really weird someone would look down upon Kane because he isn't chasing money or glory
He caught the dregs of our treble winning side and had to persist with Djemba squared in midfield and a very inconsistent, unBeckhamesque Ronaldo on the wing. It's fair to say he would have won more with a better side behind him.
Always amazing how people claim to know, to a penny, exactly how much a player earns and how much he'd get elsewhere.
Almost as amusing as how he's suddenly committing a travesty when plenty claim he's a one-season crock every time he had a bad run.
Almost as amusing as how he's suddenly committing a travesty when plenty claim he's a one-season crock every time he had a bad run.
You're talking as a fan.
If you have devoted your life to being one of th best in your profession and have the opportunity to play and perform at the biggest stage, I am guessing you will probably think differently.
Some players are lucky they team they support can't fulfil those desires.