Playing Pogba in deep midfield to "improve creativity"

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,131
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
Can I see an example of Pogba influencing the game from the deep areas (clip of a performance maybe)? This seems to be a widely-recognized reason why Pogba should be used in midfield - to create, take some burden from Bruno etc. He is called our most talented midfielder. Now, lets ignore all other aspects of his game (defensive flaws, no tracking back, need for special partner who can cover for him, executing bicycle kicks in his own box). I will accept anything from United and France NT on serious football level, from what I've seen he plays pretty much the same role for both. There must be quite a few examples judging by the number of posts in PP Performances thread, but I can't remember any so asking for help.

For me, he is a pure attacking midfielder, I would play him ONLY in advanced positions, close to the opposition goal where he is a real threat as he has proved multiple times. He's also the last player I'd play in midfield out of all other options (Fred, Matic, McTominay and van de Beek), because I don't think he understands midfielder role and plays way too slow (again, I'm not even considering flaws to defensive side of his game), so I would like to understand what Pogba +1 has over any other possible midfield setups which don't include Paul in deep midfield.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,969
Location
Somewhere out there
I think part of it is that he wants to play there, I also think he’s likely wrong.
His Juve role seems much more suited to his talents than his France/United role.
He’s talented enough to learn it, but I do fear he might be wasting away his career.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
Pogba is an in-between midfielder, has tools to play deep and also play further up and create. He's been shoehorned into playing in a two man midfield as a makeshift DM - which he never played at Juve. He plays there for France but he plays alongside perhaps the best DM in world football in Kante.

I've argued and been pelted that we need a top level DM to see the best of Pogba (like we see for France) but people argue that I'm seeking excuses for Pogba. I'm not, just pointing out that this is what he has for France and if we want similar output then we need to provide the same at United. Not an ageing Matic with no legs, which is the polar opposite of Kante.

If we can't provide that top level DM then Pogba needs to play to the left of a midfield three like he did at Juve with adequate defensive cover to makeup for that weakness in his game. Although in the last game he retrieved the ball 10+ times I believe, so he's capable just not consistent in the defensive side of the game - unless he has that cover.

My argument for a top level DM applies to the benefit of the whole team, we are desperate for one, it's the only area of the pitch the manager struggles to pick the starting 11 and an area we currently have to field both Fred and Mctominay in order to feel secure which is not acceptable as they are useful but unltimately limited players.

Edit; Regarding whether he 'can' play deep and create, he can, he has the best passing range in the team. But we won't get away from the requirement of a top level DM next to him and we don't have one in the side.
 
Last edited:

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,798
Location
india
I believe it worked in 2017-18 under Mourinho when he often played in the deeper role, but I don't think he's a true central midfielder. In terms of balance (defense vs attack) he's more Iniesta, David Silva or Frank Lampard, who, despite being vastly different players, thrived most in a midfield three and usually as the most attack minded of the three. Pogba lacks the energy of Lampard and the playmaking qualities of Iniesta/Silva, but he does provide flair, physicality and creativity as his own strengths. But yeah, I think he's not well suited a midfield two just like the above three probably wouldn't. Actually, Lampard and especially Iniesta could do it, purely because I think they had quicker minds than Pogba, but it's not making the best use of the players in question.
 

Church o Choccy

Full Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
1,444
Location
Midwest USA
I genuinely believe that Pogba, on his best day in that position, can be a kind of unplayable combination of Yaya Toure and Andrea Pirlo at their peaks. Driving forward, picking passes, but also quarterbacking from deep - especially against a team with a high line. He undoubtedly has the intelligence, skill and technique to do it.

But I get what the OPis getting at. When have we ever seen him consistently put in those performances over a period of a few months? And, at 27, how likely is he to become that player. We've seen it in flashes, certainly, but we've also seen a Pogba this season who's been just as likely to dither on the ball, make bad decisions and misplace passes. I'd like to believe that's just a poor spell of form (and if his covid recovery was an underlying issue that's more than understandable) but it still leaves us in a situation where none of us have seen him consistently deliver in the type of role he'd be most valuable to this United team.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
21,715
Location
Copenhagen
Supports
Time Travel
I think he needs a crash course from Scholes in keeping it simple when the harder passes are not on. Scholes used to make short passes while scanning the field instead of dallying on the ball and inviting pressure.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,131
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
Pogba is an in-between midfielder, has tools to play deep and also play further up and create. He's been shoehorned into playing in a two man midfield as a makeshift DM - which he never played at Juve. He plays there for France but he plays alongside perhaps the best DM in world football in Kante.

I've argued and been pelted that we need a top level DM to see the best of Pogba (like we see for France) but people argue that I'm seeking excuses for Pogba. I'm not, just pointing out that this is what he has for France and if we want similar output then we need to provide the same at United. Not an ageing Matic with no legs, which is the polar opposite of Kante.

If we can't provide that top level DM then Pogba needs to play to the left of a midfield three like he did at Juve with adequate defensive cover to makeup for that weakness in his game. Although in the last game he retrieved the ball 10+ times I believe, so he's capable just not consistent in the defensive side of the game - unless he has that cover.

My argument for a top level DM applies to the benefit of the whole team, we are desperate for one, it's the only area of the pitch the manager struggles to pick the starting 11 and an area we currently have to field both Fred and Mctominay in order to feel secure which is not acceptable as they are useful but unltimately limited players.

Edit; Regarding whether he 'can' play deep and create, he can, he has the best passing range in the team. But we won't get away from the requirement of a top level DM next to him and we don't have one in the side.
On the bolded part - what does he do for France that is so much different than for United? I keep hearing this argument about Kante, I saw him alongside Matiuidi giving the same level of performance but never mind. I want to see a real example of him doing whatever he does so well for France, because from what I've seen he basically does the same what he did against West Ham, so it's becoming like a "mythical Pogba for France" kind of thing. But maybe I'm wrong, so I want to see it with my own eyes.
 

Nickelodeon

Full Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2015
Messages
2,333
He sometimes acts like a Maguire where he takes too many touches and slows the play down. His flicks and Hollywood passes sometimes give a feel that he’s playing for a YouTube highlight reel. And he also has that Fred like quality that he’ll give away the ball in a very dangerous area which is criminal for a deep lying midfielder. Also, he’s added a Fellaini like quality of giving away too many (unnecessary) penalties (Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham last season).

We have tried for far too long to shoehorn Pogba into different positions looking to see where he clicks the best. Now it’s upto him to see what the team is and figure our where and how he can contribute the most.

He needs to be far more disciplined for a deeper role. And despite the notion of creativity, there hasn’t been enough evidence even against the weaker teams. For an attacking midfielder, he hasn’t got half the output of Bruno.

For me, he doesn’t get in our first XI based on current form. And it’s completely on him.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
On the bolded part - what does he do for France that is so much different than for United? I keep hearing this argument about Kante, I saw him alongside Matiuidi giving the same level of performance but never mind. I want to see a real example of him doing whatever he does so well for France, because from what I've seen he basically does the same what he did against West Ham, so it's becoming like a "mythical Pogba for France" kind of thing. But maybe I'm wrong, so I want to see it with my own eyes.
Well I don't have clips and to be honest I'm not sure how to post them if I did, but he's picked every single game when fit to play that role, there are clips of the passes he's completed whilst playing for France on Youtube which is an incredible compilation of passes.
 

MattofManchester

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
3,809
In basic simpler terms, we'll, let's talk numbers, he's not a 6. He's not a 10 either as so many seem to adamantly suggest.
He's more of that free, marauding 8.

It's not surprising that in those first 10 or so games under Solskjaer, when he actually showed his full capability, we destroyed teams using a 4-3-3, with Herrera alongside and Matic behind.

He's not a Defensive Midfielder. The discipline just isn't there. You'd get the same result playing Bruno in that role, and you stifle his playing style.

He's had matches where he's done well from deep such as against Sevilla, but it's not a regular thing.

And it's unfortunately why we need to cash in, not because of Paul Pogba, but because he no longer fits the team.

He's the perfect modern offensive midfielder in a 3 man midfield, but in a 2 he's a massive liability.
 

Matt851

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
2,127
I think he can work in a deep lying position in easier games but otherwise i think he is best used as a bruno back up. I think he is better suited to this role than van de beek and vdb is better than him as a more technical deep lying midfielder
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,131
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
Well I don't have clips and to be honest I'm not sure how to post them if I did, but he's picked every single game when fit to play that role, there are clips of the passes he's completed whilst playing for France on Youtube which is an incredible compilation of passes.
You can just tell me in which game he performed well in deep midfield and I'll take a look if I can find a clip. Compilation of passes can be done for any player who tries fancy stuff so I'm not really into that.

I think he can work in a deep lying position in easier games but otherwise i think he is best used as a bruno back up. I think he is better suited to this role than van de beek and vdb is better than him as a more technical deep lying midfielder
I don't think it will work against any EPL side (with Pogba in midfield), but I agree on vdb.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
It's OK if you've forgotten

 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

Full Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
3,675
Location
The rainbow's end
He can play a deeper role as his range of passing is exquisite. He also seems at his absolute best when he's picking out runners with his passes/final balls instead of instigating short-passing sequences in congested areas.

The issue with Pogba is that, for one reason or the other, he can't see the pockets of space in which he has to position himself to receive a pass and therefore others have to create this space for him and give him time on the ball to work his magic. Someone mentioned that he should take lessons from Scholes' latter years and how his used ball circulation to get into the right pocket of space and then play the forward pass. I agree with this observation.

In the NT it works because he has Griezmann working the spaces between the lines and Mbappé who is always keeping the opposition LB in check. The movement of these two can create the necessary breathing room for Pogba to get on the ball and assess his options. Deschamps usually chooses very conservative tactics, so there's Kante and Matuidi and the left who used to tuck inside to provide cover. It worked like a treat in the WC for France where Pogba was one of the best performers for France. But keep in mind that the NT games are also played in a much slower tempo which suits Pogba.

Even the other day, the decisive move was to bring Rashford and Bruno on. The former always looked for runs in behind and, most importantly, Bruno was also very "aggressive" with his positioning. As a result WHU were forced to lose some of their cohesiveness. They were stretched and Pogba found the time and the space to influence the game.

Whether United should choose to create a team around Pogba or to invest in other solutions is still up for debate. But if we manage to improve our overall passing-game in the attacking half, he can have an important role here.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,131
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
It's OK if you've forgotten

Excellent video in which most of his good moves happened around the box, don't you think it supports my point that he should be used as an attacking midfielder? He had a few good passes from the deep, but the video is a compilation from 5+ years so that's hardly an argument FOR him playing in deep midfield.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
You can just tell me in which game he performed well in deep midfield and I'll take a look if I can find a clip. Compilation of passes can be done for any player who tries fancy stuff so I'm not really into that.

Here's a video showing his range of passing, he's insanely talented player. Such a shame we haven't made it work.
 

pascell

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
14,221
Location
Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
It's OK if you've forgotten

Look at the movement of the attackers, most notably Zlatan. It goes without saying that Pogba has a brilliant passing range, it's his application and work rate that often come under scrutiny, no one can question his ability with the ball.
 
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
2,301
One of my biggest takeaways from those videos was being reminded again that Zlatan's off-ball movement and the timing of his runs, at 36, was unbelievable.
 

DoomSlayer

New Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
4,875
Location
Bulgaria
Pogba would have been a legendary player in the past. His problems are purely tactical and playing under modern tactical systems seems to be a serious issue for him.

It's true that he requires a free role in a team. However, in the top teams of today, unless you are on the level of Messi or Ronaldo, you're not getting anything close to having such a position. Pogba needs to adjust to what is best for our team or we need to sell him, it's as simple as that at this point and we have enough evidence to know it can't work any other way.
 

OleBoiii

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
6,021
The true value of a DM comes into play when the opponent puts you under heavy pressure. You generally have two types of DM's for that situation. DMs who: 1) fight fire with fire or 2) are smart and composed.

Pogba is suited for neither. His defensive abilities are his biggest weakness and he makes far too many mistakes to be a Pirlo/Carrick type. He's an attacking midfielder in a world with several attacking midfielders that are better than him. And unfortunately for him we have one of them in Bruno.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
52,486
Location
The stable
I've been a supporter of Pogba since he came to the club and have so wanted it to work out for him, he's one of the best passers in football but let's be honest, his range of passing only comes out when he's given freedom on the pitch and the game starts opening up, he starts to struggle when harassed and pressed.

When it comes down to doing the boring stuff, he often goes missing or makes mistakes. In his 4 or so years he, he hasn't managed the level of consistency that was expected of someone like him. We can blame tactics all we want but great players still do a decent job even in bad systems.

I think had he stayed at Juventus he would've been a top 3 midfielder in the world because he would've played in the best system for him. Much like Messi who had enjoyed a system built around him but once you take him out of the system or disrupt it, he looks less superhuman.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
Excellent video in which most of his good moves happened around the box, don't you think it supports my point that he should be used as an attacking midfielder? He had a few good passes from the deep, but the video is a compilation from 5+ years so that's hardly an argument FOR him playing in deep midfield.
Most of those are from deep positions, but it doesn't mean he can't push forward closer to the box when we are attacking - this is his best position.

While he can play as a 10, Bruno has that position now and is arguably better closer to the goal, Pogba is more than capable of playing deeper, he just needs to keep the ball moving as he has a habid of wanting to hit the hollywood pass. The issue with that is when the movement ahead is poor he can be pressed easily.

One of my biggest takeaways from those videos was being reminded again that Zlatan's off-ball movement and the timing of his runs, at 36, was unbelievable.
Yep, and this shows why we have struggled a lot more since he left. There's a video of those 2 seasons where Pogba could have easily had 20 assists extra alone and Zlatan missed LOADS of chances.

We haven't had proper striker movement for a long time since then. Lukaku just wanted everything to feet, Rashford makes the odd long run when he's in the mood, and Martial wants it to feet too.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
31,833

Here's a video showing his range of passing, he's insanely talented player. Such a shame we haven't made it work.
Pogba too hasn't made it work. We have tried different managers, different systems and different players around him. There comes a time where people stop wanking over skewed youtube highlights and look at the fact that his consistency is the problem. No one questions his talent, even me. This is what Charrager referred to when Neville said he's a world class player. Charrager said a world class talent is one thing and there's no doubting that with Pogba. But World Class players have consistency on the pitch, which he hasn't done enough of since he joined us.
 

Dante

Average bang
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
25,280
Location
My wit's end
In basic simpler terms, we'll, let's talk numbers, he's not a 6. He's not a 10 either as so many seem to adamantly suggest.
He's more of that free, marauding 8.

It's not surprising that in those first 10 or so games under Solskjaer, when he actually showed his full capability, we destroyed teams using a 4-3-3, with Herrera alongside and Matic behind.

He's not a Defensive Midfielder. The discipline just isn't there. You'd get the same result playing Bruno in that role, and you stifle his playing style.

He's had matches where he's done well from deep such as against Sevilla, but it's not a regular thing.

And it's unfortunately why we need to cash in, not because of Paul Pogba, but because he no longer fits the team.

He's the perfect modern offensive midfielder in a 3 man midfield, but in a 2 he's a massive liability.
He's not a 6. He's not a 10.

And whilst he might be an 8, he's not marauding.

I think he'd have been world class in the 1990s. Not so much in the 2020s.
 

RedRonaldo

Wishes to be oppressed.
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18,996
Coming back to United is the biggest mistake he has made in his career. He could easily be a well established world class midfielder, winning trophies after trophies, had he stayed in Juventus.

At the same time, buying him for 80m is one of the biggest transfer mistake we have ever made. He does not suit us at all, and our system/tactics does not suit him at all either. Worst match of all time.
 

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
13,888
He only plays deep because he is tall and built like Vieira. There is not a defensive bone in his body, man is doing up overhead kicks in his own box and ducking under the ball before headers but is considered as a DM because he can do a few long passes.:lol:
He is a victim of his own ability and unique/unusual collection of attributes.

For his career progression it would be a good thing to leave, the hype that surrounded him in Italy is well and truly dead. Fans hype him for ball recoveries these days
 

YAMS49

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,346
Location
Nottinghamshire
He's an 8 in a 4-3-3 or perhaps a left hand side midfield diamond. FM calls it a mezzala/carrielo.

Problem us Ole is mostly rigid 4-2-3-1 double pivot so Pogba ends up with too much defensive responsibility. I actually prefer him with McTominay in there as the latter sits more than Fred & even Matic.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
Pogba too hasn't made it work. We have tried different managers, different systems and different players around him. There comes a time where people stop wanking over skewed youtube highlights and look at the fact that his consistency is the problem. No one questions his talent, even me. This is what Charrager referred to when Neville said he's a world class player. Charrager said a world class talent is one thing and there's no doubting that with Pogba. But World Class players have consistency on the pitch, which he hasn't done enough of since he joined us.
I agree Pogba needs to take his own share of the responsibility, I just think that we haven't tried to really make the most of the player and the money we spent on him.

For example, we all know Pogba isn't defensively sound enough to play in a midfield two unless his partner is top class (like Kante with France.) So why do we expect it to work with him playing alongside an old leggy Matic?

People seem to think we've gone above and beyond to make it work and that perhaps we've even 'built the team around him' - but we haven't. You can argue that a player of his calibre and for the money he cost we should have built the team around him. I.e. bought that top class DM to play alongside him, this would give enough defensive stability for us to get both of our best players on the pitch in Pogba and Bruno. Not to mention improve the rest of the team and defence.

I just think we may have missed a trick with Paul. We knew the player we were purchasing before we paid the money, we knew his strengths and his weaknesses, where he could and couldn't play.
 

Borys

Statistics Wizard
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
9,131
Location
Bielsko Biala, Poland
@RUCK4444 @Adam-Utd
I don't think anyone will argue his long-range passing ability, and importance for that matter. But at some point you have to think if we're playing Pogba in deep midfield just because of what he's capable of rather than what he actually does? His long-range passing has zero real impact on our game. I guess Maguire and Lindelof created as many chances passing from defense as Pogba this season.

I still don't see what Pogba + 1 midfield has over any other midfield setup.

I agree Pogba needs to take his own share of the responsibility, I just think that we haven't tried to really make the most of the player and the money we spent on him.

For example, we all know Pogba isn't defensively sound enough to play in a midfield two unless his partner is top class (like Kante with France.) So why do we expect it to work with him playing alongside an old leggy Matic?

People seem to think we've gone above and beyond to make it work and that perhaps we've even 'built the team around him' - but we haven't. You can argue that a player of his calibre and for the money he cost we should have built the team around him. I.e. bought that top class DM to play alongside him, this would give enough defensive stability for us to get both of our best players on the pitch in Pogba and Bruno. Not to mention improve the rest of the team and defence.

I just think we may have missed a trick with Paul. We knew the player we were purchasing before we paid the money, we knew his strengths and his weaknesses, where he could and couldn't play.
Lets stick to offensive side of Pogba game. Is lack of Kante holding Pogba back from impacting games from the deep when we have the ball?
Other point is Pogba performances are on the same level whether he plays with Kante, Matiuidi and Rabiot from what I've seen, so IMO this has more to do with National Teams and France in general than Kante himself. France is just above any other team at the moment, and I don't see Pogba as key element at all.
 
Last edited:

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
@Borys Pogba is better than what he's shown lately, he's been unfit and struggling with injuries and looks a bit heavy because he's knackered ( due to covid most likely)

If he can get back to his best he's better than all or midfielders, on a similar level to Bruno. I hope they can get to play together regularly, the last time Pogba, Fred and Bruno played together we outplayed Sevilla who are no mugs. It's a good balance IMO.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
3,095








He has major flaws, as you've mentioned (defensive concentration, taking too many touches etc.). But he is the only player in our squad with this ability from deep - not even his long range passing - it's the ability to quickly move the ball or draw multiple players with a carry, freeing space for others.

I won't lose any sleep if he leaves, but I'd prefer us to find a real DM to partner him if that was an option.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
34,085
Like @Lynty has shown above — He’s the only player in our team who can pass from deep. His long passing is possibly the best in the world, seriously. I think maybe Kroos is the only player I can think of who does it better. There are other flaws to his game, but to see and pick a long pass like that, nobody in our side comes close to PP6.
 

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,804
Like @Lynty has shown above — He’s the only player in our team who can pass from deep. His long passing is possibly the best in the world, seriously. I think maybe Kroos is the only player I can think of who does it better. There are other flaws to his game, but to see and pick a long pass like that, nobody in our side comes close to PP6.
Nah, Harry and Lindelof can do those too.

I mean seriously how people missed the point when we talked about his long passing range.

But, I do think Pogba has to take responsibility for himself. With his talent, he can play anywhere decently.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
@RUCK4444 @Adam-Utd
I don't think anyone will argue his long-range passing ability, and importance for that matter. But at some point you have to think if we're playing Pogba in deep midfield just because of what he's capable of rather than what he actually does? His long-range passing has zero real impact on our game. I guess Maguire and Lindelof created as many chances passing from defense as Pogba this season.

I still don't see what Pogba + 1 midfield has over any other midfield setup.


Lets stick to offensive side of Pogba game. Is lack of Kante holding Pogba back from impacting games from the deep when we have the ball?
Other point is Pogba performances are on the same level whether he plays with Kante, Matiuidi and Rabiot from what I've seen, so IMO this has more to do with National Teams and France in general than Kante himself. France is just above any other team at the moment, and I don't see Pogba as key element at all.
Well it depends on what you want from your midfield two. Most people I'm sure would agree that we probably wont win anything with two limited midfielders like McTominay and Fred having to play every game. Neither provide forward penetrative passing to feed Bruno and the forwards particularly well.

Therefore, in my opinion, finding the right midfielder partner for Pogba is a huge bonus because nobody can play it forwards as well as him in terms of range and ability for almost any type of pass. Plus a top DM next to him would allow Paul to get up and down the pitch at times and create along with Bruno against teams who sit back.

Regarding the bolded part, in short, yes. I believe it does. Paul in our team is overly restricted with defensive duties that he's ultimately not cut out for. We should have known that before purchasing him, which is why I find it hard to argue against needing to provide a top level DM to partner him. I think we thought we had that in Matic but he legs have gone entirely.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
3,095
Nah, Harry and Lindelof can do those too.

I mean seriously how people missed the point when we talked about his long passing range.

But, I do think Pogba has to take responsibility for himself. With his talent, he can play anywhere decently.
Let be honest, most footballers can send a 60yard accurate long ball. Maguire and Lindelof having 15 yards of free space is hardly impressive. Even I could pick out my forwards with enough time and space. They also play it between themselves a few times before attempting a long.

Pogba does it whilst the opposite team are trying to transition into defensive line.

In my view, we're only 10 games into the season, his only real competition for a starting spot is Fred or McTom. He'll easily displace one eventually. Sooner than a lot of doubters think as well.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
31,833
I agree Pogba needs to take his own share of the responsibility, I just think that we haven't tried to really make the most of the player and the money we spent on him.

For example, we all know Pogba isn't defensively sound enough to play in a midfield two unless his partner is top class (like Kante with France.) So why do we expect it to work with him playing alongside an old leggy Matic?
Pogba very rarely operated in a 2 with Matic? I mean Bruno was part of that midfield too, even if he was in advanced areas if you look at the heat maps he's not just sitting in the final third. Pogba was a box to box in part of a 3 for the most part under Ole. It just didn't work out. It works if he's more in a Fernandes role, and then you have say Fred/McT in his role. But of course he can't touch Bruno and rightly so.
People seem to think we've gone above and beyond to make it work and that perhaps we've even 'built the team around him' - but we haven't. You can argue that a player of his calibre and for the money he cost we should have built the team around him. I.e. bought that top class DM to play alongside him, this would give enough defensive stability for us to get both of our best players on the pitch in Pogba and Bruno. Not to mention improve the rest of the team and defence.

I just think we may have missed a trick with Paul. We knew the player we were purchasing before we paid the money, we knew his strengths and his weaknesses, where he could and couldn't play.
We backed him over backing say, Jose when it really came down to it. Whilst we didn't change the system for him, we did change our midfielders and test different formations and Pogba hasn't exactly blossomed in any of them. That doesn't come down to us, or his partners, but it comes down to him as a player. I'm getting tired of this analogy that we let Pogba down or that we could have done more for him. We have many players who have adapted brilliantly to the system and even operated in a less familiar position and blossomed. Rashford likes to cut in from wide but when Martial is out he carries the burden. Greenwood wants to be a 9 but he did great from the right. VDB may be more used to a 10 but he's performed admirably in the box to box role. Generally speaking, good players should be able to adapt and adapt well.
 

Trequarista10

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2020
Messages
2,544
This is an odd thread.

Pogba may not be a 6, but it's not because of a lack of creativity. He's incredibly creative from deep. He just lacks defensively, and he's more ambitious from deep with the ball than a typical metronomic number 6. We don't play to dominate possession so the latter isn't an issue. The only issue is his defensive capabilities.
 

Jibbs

New Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
2,238
The only way he can improve things is by getting the f out of the exit door.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
14,178
Props to the posters who have described well Pogba’a assets and liabilities here. What we need above all else right now is a top DM to free up Pogba.

Matic is on fumes, Fred really isn’t a DM in the first place (love his contributions overall, however) and McTominay just isn’t gifted enough in any aspect of play (but I like him as a squad player).