Playing two playmakers

Nani Nana

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Van der Vaart & Modric with Tottenham... Nasri & Gourcuff for France the other day

Is the two playmakers system coming into force? If so, is it a good alternative to the traditional two strikers scheme, both tactically (more control over midfield) and spectacularly (better overall flow)?
 

Jens' Face

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I think it's a good idea, especially if one is deep-lying and the other plays farther forward. But it's not necessarily a new idea -- think of Pirlo and Kaka at Milan in their (most recent) heyday

The key is that your deep-lying playmaker must also have good defensive and positional awareness, because he often serves as a shield in front of the back 4. This was true for Pirlo -- and he did it well -- but my instinct is it's even more important now with the shift to 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and the changing player responsibilities. Alonso is another great example -- half dm, half playmaker, if you want to break it down like that. And Gerrard served as the forward playmaker. I don't think it's a coincidence that both teams had an aggressive, harrying destroyer type to round out the midfield (Mascherano, Gattuso).

Arsenal right now seems to be trying some thing similar, with Wilshere as the deep-playmaker/shield, Cesc as the forward playmaker/attacker, and Song as the box-to-box harrier. Playing Wilshere at the bottom of midfield still bemuses me. Defensively it seems to be working all right and he's good in attack when he comes forward (and, say, Song drops off to cover). But I don't see him showing any signs of controlling the pace, etc. of the game from the deep position, like Pirlo or Alonso could. Which is fine and not surprising. Those are two pretty good players to try to live up to.
 

Carl

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I like it but like Jens' Face said, it requires one of them to sit a little deeper making sure the 1 defensive midfield player isn't too vulnerable. Pirlo did that at Milan, Wilshere has done it this season at Arsenal and Modric has done it at Spurs.
 

Jens' Face

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I like it but like Jens' Face said, it requires one of them to sit a little deeper making sure the 1 defensive midfield player isn't too vulnerable. Pirlo did that at Milan, Wilshere has done it this season at Arsenal and Modric has done it at Spurs.
oh, that reminds me ... Spurs, yeah

I see Huddlestone on his way to being an excellent Alonso-type (maybe not as excellent as Alonso, but still pretty hot.) I've been really impressed with him since about halfway through last season or something. Modric comes to collect the ball from the defenders but then he tends to get slightly more advanced, almost as far up as Cesc plays. Then with VDV playing behind Crouch, spurs have actually got a line of 3 playmakers, though much of VDV's responsibility is to get in goal scoring position and wait for the supply. Well done, 'Arry.

Of course, you can and should also have playmakers out on the wing -- Bale, Arshavin, Nasri, Nani. Heck, you should have as many as you can get, and a lot of teams are doing this. I consider Essien a playmaker par excellence.
 

Raees

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2 playmakers in midfield? I'd be happy with seeing at least one for either England or United (when Scholesy is not playing)
 

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oh, that reminds me ... Spurs, yeah

I see Huddlestone on his way to being an excellent Alonso-type (maybe not as excellent as Alonso, but still pretty hot.) I've been really impressed with him since about halfway through last season or something. Modric comes to collect the ball from the defenders but then he tends to get slightly more advanced, almost as far up as Cesc plays. Then with VDV playing behind Crouch, spurs have actually got a line of 3 playmakers, though much of VDV's responsibility is to get in goal scoring position and wait for the supply. Well done, 'Arry.

Of course, you can and should also have playmakers out on the wing -- Bale, Arshavin, Nasri, Nani. Heck, you should have as many as you can get, and a lot of teams are doing this. I consider Essien a playmaker par excellence.
Why is everyone a surname except for 'Cesc'?

He's not actually your mate you know, except in your head.
 

Georgie Best

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I think having several playmakers is one of the keys to play brilliant football, however it is hard. The reason it is so good, is because a defensive midfielder can't take out the playmaker if you have more than one. If Fletcher sticks on to Xavi, Barcelona still has Iniesta - that way the creativity in Barcelona never dies. I think that was what made us so brilliant in 2007 and 2008, it was more than just Ronaldo, it was also the playmakers we had in Carrick, Scholes and Tevez. It was impossible to kill our game.

Keane - Scholes sort of was two playmakers - both were brilliant passers... There are not many defensive midfielders as Keane was today. Vieira had some of the same tendencies at Arsenal, great passer along side being a great midfielder. Obi Mikel is starting to show that in Chelsea nowdays. Getting that kind of defensive playmaker would be the goal... The only thing I am quite sure at, if we want such a man, we will have to create him ourselves, I guess we did that with Keane, he was more attacking when we first got him. Hopefully - Anderson can turn into that, he is only 22 and I am not sure if we should give up on him just yet.
 

Spammy

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My definition of playmaker would be a creative passer with the ability to create good attacking patterns or put more simply "open defences" that will score...

creative is the key word to define a playmaker IMO.
Probably should also include their relative importance to the team they play for.
 

204Red

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Players like Robson, and to a lesser extent Keane, could be both playmaker and destroyer.

Aren't too many like those two.

and Red mouths would salivate at the prospect of a midfield pairing of Robson and Keane
 

cesc's_mullet

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Fabregas, Nasri and Wilshere have all played together for us.
 

Nistelrooy10

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Players like Robson, and to a lesser extent Keane, could be both playmaker and destroyer.

Aren't too many like those two.

and Red mouths would salivate at the prospect of a midfield pairing of Robson and Keane
I don't think Keane was ever a playmaker. He usually made a bunch of short passes. He was a leader and organized play tremendously, but he never performed magic with the ball, created goal opportunities out of nothing, created space by dribbling, etc...it was players like Scholes, Beckham, and Giggs who made the plays happen.
 

amolbhatia50k

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I think having several playmakers is one of the keys to play brilliant football, however it is hard. The reason it is so good, is because a defensive midfielder can't take out the playmaker if you have more than one. If Fletcher sticks on to Xavi, Barcelona still has Iniesta - that way the creativity in Barcelona never dies. I think that was what made us so brilliant in 2007 and 2008, it was more than just Ronaldo, it was also the playmakers we had in Carrick, Scholes and Tevez. It was impossible to kill our game.

Keane - Scholes sort of was two playmakers - both were brilliant passers... There are not many defensive midfielders as Keane was today. Vieira had some of the same tendencies at Arsenal, great passer along side being a great midfielder. Obi Mikel is starting to show that in Chelsea nowdays. Getting that kind of defensive playmaker would be the goal... The only thing I am quite sure at, if we want such a man, we will have to create him ourselves, I guess we did that with Keane, he was more attacking when we first got him. Hopefully - Anderson can turn into that, he is only 22 and I am not sure if we should give up on him just yet.
This a very good post. I reckon this is precisely what's missing in our current team. That guile and class on the ball to dictate play. We basically have one player to do that and that's Scholes.

Arsenal are the most sorted in this area in the premier league with Wilshire, Fabregas and Nasri all who can perform the role very well.
 

Viper KGB

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In fairness Song has improved extremely in being more creative and getting forward, especially for someone who was a CB
 

amolbhatia50k

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In fairness Song has improved extremely in being more creative and getting forward, especially for someone who was a CB
But question is does getting forward mean being a playmaker? Nani gets forward, I don't think he's a playmaker really. He whips in crosses and runs at defenders.
 

RockOfGibraltar

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What a funny thread.

If the team you support is lucky enough to have two creative attacking midfielders on the books, and they happen to compliment one another on the pitch, then it's hardly rocket science to make the decision to play them together.
 

RedThaiDevils#7

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Keano playmaker ?

I'd reckon a Playmaker would be used for players that usually are the center of the team and creates + score goals + win games for the team on a constant basis.

Totti playing in the hole was a playmaker for example.

I won't use a play maker in 4-4-2, the are box to box players. The word playmaker should only be used for players who are good at playing behind the strikers.

Thats just my view on the word "Playmaker".

On another basis, Keano in 4-4-2 was obviously everything, playmaker ? Yes he did make us tick, Defense general ? Yes, he protected the back four extremely well...

So thats why I'd reckon Keano to box to box as they would do every thing on the pitch which is much more than a play maker.

Wouldn't reckon they are the same thing though as for me they are different positions, only slightly but the roles of which they play are totally different + different tactics.
 

e.cantona

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We've been playing two or three midfielders for as long as I can remember
 

amolbhatia50k

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For me a playmaker is someone who dicatates the way the team plays. Nasri and Fabregas definitely both do that. They both spray passes about, play little one twos, get everyone else involved.
 

vuc

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For me a playmaker has to do more than just get forward with the ball.

He has to run a game. Dictate the flow of play and control a game.

Scholes, Fabregas, Silva, Modric, VDV are the ones I would mention from England. Also to some degree Carrick can be this type of player.

Other then that the likes of Xavi, Alonso, Banega, Pizarro all stand out for me.
 

amolbhatia50k

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For me a playmaker has to do more than just get forward with the ball.

He has to run a game. Dictate the flow of play and control a game.

Scholes, Fabregas, Silva, Modric, VDV are the ones I would mention from England. Also to some degree Carrick can be this type of player.

Other then that the likes of Xavi, Alonso, Banega, Pizarro all stand out for me.
Agree with the definition. But Nasri has to be there too. He's much better at it than Silva ATM. Wouldn't include Carrick though.
 

vuc

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Agree with the definition. But Nasri has to be there too. He's much better at it than Silva ATM. Wouldn't include Carrick though.
Forgot about him, and I would have him there. Even Rosicky of old would be there too.

Carrick is one on the cusp, he is capable of doing those things but doesn't for a large stretch of the game and therefore it's hard to fully call him a playmaker.