Gerrard's 08/09 season was really good from a week to week perspective.
And England's team was ruined by stupid managers. Why on earth so many persisted with Gerrard/Lampard, I'll never know.
PL's best midfielders
- Thread starter VJ1762
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And England's team was ruined by stupid managers. Why on earth so many persisted with Gerrard/Lampard, I'll never know.
I'm not sure why you keep repeating the same Xavi and Iniesta argument. It's not hard to understand, once Pep started to dominate with Barca, passing midfielders/tempo controllers were recognized at higher level than before, especially in England. If you want a simple example, just look at how Chelsea fans cream their pants watching half decent Jorginho.
I don't know why he didn't get any votes but Scholes not being nominated was just wrong.
Henry never won the Balon d'or, Owen did. No one who has bit of sense would argue Owen was better than Henry.
Because the whole team isnt on scholes level? It's really hard to be a metronome when the other 10 isnt in your wavelenght.
Gerrard for all his shortcoming is more effective for a blunt team
Well now why would that be so outrageous? He showed up in the biggest of matches in the PL and CL, almost never had bad games, put incredible number of assists and goals, put up good defence whenever that was required of him etc; won everything at the club level, multiple league titles.
Posts like this make me want to proclaim Lampard as the greatest of all time.
He was actually nominated five times (2000, 01, 03, 04, 07) but never received any votes.
Scholes's longevity and versatility, not to mention his habit of improving every player around him in a red shirt, are big reasons why he's lauded by former United players and managers as well as the fans. If you prefer Lampard or Gerrard that's fine by me, they were both great players, but if you're coming on here talking about no-one giving a shit about Scholes as a player or the 'myth' of Scholes don't be surprised if people push back.
Some Italian manager should have managed that team, would have gone with 4-3-1-2 formation. Would have been very unpopular move too.
Funny that going through the balon dor voting. Its not even winners.
Keane best finish 6th
Beckham 2nd
Lampard 2nd
Gerrard 3rd
Kante 8th
Toure 12th
From what i can find he made the top 23 once and finished joint last with 0 votes.
All the players above have multiple finishes and votes and its not even a pl bias as owen rooney shearer vardy mahrez etc have respectable finishes
So how come the voting doesnt back what you say but backs my post retirement myth.
We can do pl poty or tots and im sure id find similar results.
Controlling mids werent made in 08.
Oh it was everyone else that was great and he wasn't the star player remember.
Take off his penalties and deflections and he never scored a goal
I'll admit I used to have Scholes-Gerrard--------------------(many dashes later) Lampard, I honestly thought he was a tidy penalty merchant and nothing more. Having gotten a clue towards the end of his playing career I respect how close it is between the three, with the final verdict mainly coming down to club affiliation and personal preference.
Was Lampard ever the second best player in the world?
Of course not, is the very obvious answer.
Can only find one nomination 01 finished last with no votes.
You can do what you like, but it doesn't make it anything bar silly.
One more point without even understanding the point made, well done.
You crying about Balon d'or changes nothing, just like how Owen winning 1 more than Henry means nothing.
That probably cost him a league title to be honest. After he slipped and Demba Ba scored, he went rogue and started taking all kinds of wild shots. It was 1-0 until 90th minute and a draw would have been enough, if I recall. Fabulous player nonetheless, and coming out swinging wild worked for him many times in the past.
Hilarious. Of course it doesnt. Just that it proves my point that when he was playing his fans peers pundits etc failed to see this amazing player and vote accordingly. Funny how he seems to be the only player in history with so much disrespect.
So no answer then? You aren't really contributing any insights into the discussion here.
In the year he came second it wasn't that much of a controversial choice. He got 29 goals and assists in the PL when Chelsea were pretty awesome and got 4 goals and 1 assist in CL knockout ties against Barcelona and Bayern. Chelsea were at the very highest level and he was arguably their best player.
it just proves that you are clueless and it shows in every post (clutching at Balon d'or stats when you can't even use it consistently to tell Owen > Henry). Using nonsense, hilarious in every post make you sound like a desperate kid.
Who cares what those pundits saw or didn't see, if you want to hear what his peers thought then listen to what Henry said on MNF when he was asked direct question. Greatest manager in the world saw him as the key player and played him for years, even asked him to come back from retirement. Who even cares about pundit's opinion.
It's not about the qualities of Gerrard or Lampard... Either of them plus a different kind of midfielder (forget Scholes/Carrick, probably Hargreaves or Gareth fecking Barry) would have worked much better.
Could have? perhaps. My only point was that i can see how choosing gerrard over scholes in understandable because Scholes needs a good teammate to shine whereas gerrard on his day can be that shining beacon (although he always fails when it counts)
Can you imagine Scholes pinging pass with emile heskey, garreth bary, and jermaine pennant?
I can use it consistently. The only kid here is you with the owen henry remark. That was one season. How many finished with henry above owen ? Im not even arguing 1st place finishes as they can be controversial. But if you have a good year 99% of the time its recognised.
Its a valid point. Even one season wonders have had votes. But this midfield god has gone through his whole career without a single one.
Personally Lampard is my favourite player of all time, so it's hard for me to clear the bias. Even so I can see an argument being made for Scholes. Perhaps Gerrard and Lampard are more comparable, though. The England situation notwithstanding, I think we're lucky to have watched these three incredible players.Take off his penalties and deflections and he never scored a goal
I'll admit I used to have Scholes-Gerrard--------------------(many dashes later) Lampard, I honestly thought he was a tidy penalty merchant and nothing more. Having gotten a clue towards the end of his playing career I respect how close it is between the three, with the final verdict mainly coming down to club affiliation and personal preference.
So are these one season wonders were better than Scholes as they had more Balon d'or votes?
You finally got the point.
At least we have sensible Chelsea fans, unlike the other lunatic who just can't stop crying and being so emotional just because Lampard wasn't declared as GOAT.
In that year that they were voted in yes.
This is hilarious. You have no answer why hes not got the standing in the footballing world when he was playing. Youve not made a single point to explain why.
Not mentioned lampard being the goat. Or any nonsense like that. Though he did finish second and was recognised in the pl toty as well as by Chelsea fans etc.
Isn't that not self explanatory? If someone is thick as pig shit it isn't. Not sure if you are btw, just saying in general.
Amazing how the very first post or reply was on that and you came full circle asking same question.
For you Balon d'or is be all and end all, for me it isn't.
Nothing wrong with that at all. For me they're different styles of players who each had brilliant qualities.
Again we can go to balon dor
Pl toty
Pl poty
Even man us feckin pots
And nothing favours scholes.
FWA footballer of the year - Vardy 1 - Aguero 0
Parker 1 - Vieira 0, David Silva 0, KdB 0,
Always knew Parker was better than Vieira, David Silva, KdB. His peers recognized him.
Parker 1 - Vieira 0, David Silva 0, KdB 0,
Always knew Parker was better than Vieira, David Silva, KdB. His peers recognized him.
You're doing that thing again where youre making it all encompassing because youre talking shit. They are split by years. Vardys award was fully deserved.
Of course he wasn't main man at ManUtd, we had fecking Cantona, Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Keane thoughout his career.
Smalling won ManUtd award, doesn't mean he was better.
Henry summed it up and what Scholes brings to the team.
No, you are just using awards as a measure of the player, Vieira was one of the best and arguable 2nd, 3rd best CM to play in PL. He never won the award. These players (Vieira, Aguero, KdB, Silva) dominated PL but never won the award, says all about the award. If we extend this to defenders, it will be even more hilarious.
Again posting shit, nonsense, hilarious doesn't change anything. You are just a wikitard.
At least there are Chelsea fans who see why there is a merit for each candidate and then we have shit posters like you, coming up with pile of garbage that it's so tedious to read.
Viera even in his best years would have had henry or bergkamp in his own team. BUT he would easily be in arsenals top 3 performing players of said season.
Im glad youve bought up all those united players how far down do you have to go down a list of united players top performers in a season till you get to scholes. A long fecking while. He was never main man or even top 3.
fecking hell, Cantona, Ronaldo, Rooney all didn't play together. They all played at different times. Even with every changing teams, he was main stay for years and had his position locked down in various roles. Shows all about the player. Scholes was never the best player in the league or ManUtd team but he was superb midfielder who controlled the game.I dont even know why I'm arguing with wikitard who can't see anything but awards category in wiki.
Thats the whole point. He was never uniteds best player or even in the top 3 during his career when they won. The players youre comparing him to won trophies as the best player or at worst top 3 in their side. This as well as the plaudits and acclaim they received in what ever award.
I dont even know why I'm arguing with wikitard who can't see anything but awards category in wiki.
So Scholes was never top 3 ManUtd player in his career? You come up with tripe like this and "no gave feck about Scholes when he was playing", it's hard to take you seriously. Sounds like a troll.
No answer to what? Lampard being the 2nd best in the world one year, and being the best Premier league midfielder?
Genuinely there is no answer to that, as it's so wrong.
Was he ? Go through season by season and for most i guarantee he wouldnt be top 3 by consensus on this forum.
Pretty sure the players that played with and against him recognised his genius.
There's enough well known players who have said so.