Pochettino Chelsea Manager - Sack Watch

ti vu

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Redstain said:
Recency bias is the thing that's killed the reputation around the prospect of Poch's management. If Erik achieved what Poch did at Tottenham point for point, league position for league position and UCL final for UCL final the forum would overwhelmingly consider that a significant success. Anyone telling themselves otherwise is fooling themselves.

I think what Erik initially brought to United was a projective identification of something that was appeasing to the club's direction, a presumably possession based manager revolved around the ethos of Ajax, front foot football and a solid coach to help individual players raise their level. If Erik played Jose football the fans would have had no interest because his CV wasn't anything significant to back him as a success on, aside giving Ajax some stability in a league that isn't even closely as competitive as the premier League.

So provisionally there's a parallel where Poch's CV was substantially being used against him and the promise of what Erik would seemingly bring to the table was the upsell. It's funny to see how the latter is playing out with Erik however. As is the case with recency bias however Poch no one has really given consideration to Pochs ability to coach a team and that's what's being unearthed at present.

So the difference between Poch and Eth is just like the financial markets, one person's stock was low and the others stock was high but once the speculation dies down the true revelation of the stocks value is revealed and that's the reality we are living in at present.
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Poch for all the seasons with Tottenham only finished twice with more point than us last season. (77 and 86 vs 75). It took Poch a couple season with Tottenham before getting there. He had already had PL experience with Southampton, too. Why people seem to sweep Poch first season with Tottenham and the final few months into the new season before Poch got sacked, under the rug?

Poch Tottenham got to CL final after eliminating ETH's Ajax by away goal rule, in dramatic fashion: AKA Ajax threw away huge advantage. It reflects badly on ETH and Ajax? Sure. But it can be interpreted that a stronger side, more experienced, higher paid side got lucky. The margin is close enough that with current CL rule eliminating away goal, that tie was not over!!!

Poch had already used up that CL finalist credit with getting PSG and Chelsea. It's no achievement just to be there and lose. Outside of that one season CL, Poch run in CL and EL with Tottenham was underwhelming if not to say outright shite. More importantly Poch won nothing with Tottenham a team he luckily got for cheap.

ETH already won a trophy with us and made another final in the first season. Poch never made it to two finals in a season with Tottenham. The competitiveness in the league last season and currently is no lesser than Poch time with Tottenham.

Right now, for all rightful bashing on our playing style, result wise we're still better in the league despite facing a more severe injury crisis. The excuse that Chelsea is one prolific scorer away from being good is wishful thinking because the striker market is very difficult now and they had problem finding that scorer for Sarri, Lampard, Tuchel, Potter. People should be worried about whether Poch would be able to even make top 4 with Chelsea this season because if he wouldn't; he wouldn't be compared kindly to Sarri, Lampard first stint first season (transfer ban) and Tuchel tenure facing similar scoring issue. There would be no excuse there and then for Poch.

In short, Poch himself has more things to be worried about for the sake of his own reputation than taking a moral victory over ETH.
 

TheGame

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justboy68 said:
The debate around Poch has always been too absolute. He's either a genius or a fraud, it's nonsense. He's clearly a very capable, good manager but he's not a great one. He can do very well in the right setup but can also fail when things don't go smoothly. I think we're starting to see him turning things around for Chelsea now, but they are coming from so far behind who knows what the ceiling is.
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Exactly this although you'll find alot of the views here which may seem against Poch are against a certain WUM who posts on here.
 

rimaldo

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WeePat said:
The discourse around Poch in this thread would be much more interesting if everyone just left this one poster to his devices. It’s literally the most boring thread in the entire forum.
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i’ll post in here all i like, thank you very much.
 

Dancfc

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ti vu said:
Poch for all the seasons with Tottenham only finished twice with more point than us last season. (77 and 86 vs 75). It took Poch a couple season with Tottenham before getting there. He had already had PL experience with Southampton, too. Why people seem to sweep Poch first season with Tottenham and the final few months into the new season before Poch got sacked, under the rug?

Poch Tottenham got to CL final after eliminating ETH's Ajax by away goal rule, in dramatic fashion: AKA Ajax threw away huge advantage. It reflects badly on ETH and Ajax? Sure. But it can be interpreted that a stronger side, more experienced, higher paid side got lucky. The margin is close enough that with current CL rule eliminating away goal, that tie was not over!!!

Poch had already used up that CL finalist credit with getting PSG and Chelsea. It's no achievement just to be there and lose. Outside of that one season CL, Poch run in CL and EL with Tottenham was underwhelming if not to say outright shite. More importantly Poch won nothing with Tottenham a team he luckily got for cheap.

ETH already won a trophy with us and made another final in the first season. Poch never made it to two finals in a season with Tottenham. The competitiveness in the league last season and currently is no lesser than Poch time with Tottenham.

Right now, for all rightful bashing on our playing style, result wise we're still better in the league despite facing a more severe injury crisis. The excuse that Chelsea is one prolific scorer away from being good is wishful thinking because the striker market is very difficult now and they had problem finding that scorer for Sarri, Lampard, Tuchel, Potter. People should be worried about whether Poch would be able to even make top 4 with Chelsea this season because if he wouldn't; he wouldn't be compared kindly to Sarri, Lampard first stint first season (transfer ban) and Tuchel tenure facing similar scoring issue. There would be no excuse there and then for Poch.

In short, Poch himself has more things to be worried about for the sake of his own reputation than taking a moral victory over ETH.
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Luckily got for cheap or developed them to the level they got to.
 

golden_blunder

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The sooner everyone realises that it’s Russell Crowe masquerading as a football coach the sooner you will understand
 

Dancfc

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WeePat said:
The discourse around Poch in this thread would be much more interesting if everyone just left this one poster to his devices. It’s literally the most boring thread in the entire forum.
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I'd find it quite funny if he was passionate with his speeches but it's like reading from a robot.
 

ti vu

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Dancfc said:
Luckily got for cheap or developed them to the level they got to.
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Noone denied Poch credit for developing them to the level they displayed at their best. Raw talent input (including mentality) is still more than half of what made the players. You don't just randomly pick up random players and developing them into athletic monster like Kyle Walker, or turning Lukaku into Harry Kane. Tottenham got into a star aligning situation, but failed to achieve the silverware with it. They almost had to hit the reset button with the squad Poch left after running its down to the ground. Noone should deny Poch credit if he now develops Chelsea young players to high level just because Chelsea paid big fee for quite a few of them. But not pretend that Poch personally scouted and picked up players on cheap for Tottenham.

I am not saying Poch was a bad coach. He clearly is a very good one. The post I responded to was just selectively hid Poch's lows while only mentioning the high, in an attempt to have a dig at ETH. Yet ETH despite had less experience was very close in some metrics: point tally comparison; not away goal rule to deny Poch the CL final; a trophy in England for a team not quite there but the manager is not shy to aim high (ambition). Some of our fans just wanted to double down on ETH right now as bad choice for us by weird revisionism. Time will tell whether ETH can improve or he also has already hit his ceiling. That's another topic.
 

always_hoping

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Beaten 2-0 at home to Brentford and Poch side managed just 2 shots on target. What excuses will be used today?
 

Oranges038

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always_hoping said:
Beaten 2-0 at home to Brentford and Poch side managed just 2 shots on target. What excuses will be used today?
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After a loss, you usually have to wait until Wednesday for the fan club to recover and start creating excuses.
 

horsechoker

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I don't think he should be sacked though until near the end of the season, they've thrown a load of money at their team and they look shite. Let Poch bed the players together then look for a replacement.

May be ten Hag will be out of a job by then too...
 

Champ

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Poch just needs a new CB, a new Midfield and a new striker and possibly a new GK and he'll be flying.

Or something like that....
 

AshRK

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And people think he would have done a good job here and made us title contenders.
 

Mb194dc

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We're identical to under Potter, amazing how much money our owners have wasted to go nowhere. Can't blame Poch per se, don't think it would make a big difference with a different manager.
 

André Dominguez

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There's no long term plan or criteria. Injuries don't help either. But in the end of the day, all what matters for a manager are the results, and sacking won't be a surprise.
 

dannyrhinos89

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Mb194dc said:
We're identical to under Potter, amazing how much money our owners have wasted to go nowhere. Can't blame Poch per se, don't think it would make a big difference with a different manager.
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To be fair we are in a very similar situation. We wasted hundreds of millions over the years signing crap. Now we've a team of largely average players no matter who was here in charge we would struggle.
 

cjj

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AshRK said:
And people think he would have done a good job here and made us title contenders.
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Only Amadaeus, really - who is chairman of the Caff Pochettino Society
 
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