Really, what do they say? He gave a speech in front of the camera so he's a leader?
Pogba Future
- Thread starter wolvored
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Leadership appears on the pitch not by team talking though. I don't see much leadership in him on the pitch tbh.
Neither did one of Uniteds greatest midfielders of all time, Scholes for instance, who played alongside Keane and who Keane pushed to be better through his leadership.
So who doesn't think Pogba is sat at home now on the phone to his agent while one of them says "World Cup winners don't play in the Europa League!"?
People keep saying he's world class but playing with dross. I'm sorry but that's not world class. A true world class player elevates the team. Or at least always stand out as the best player.
Hazard been doing that for years at Chelsea. Look at their team this year, it's pretty bang average. I'd love to know how many points he won them.
Suarez at Liverpool. They were still pretty good overall but he really spearhead that team. Nearly won them the title until they slipped up.
Hazard been doing that for years at Chelsea. Look at their team this year, it's pretty bang average. I'd love to know how many points he won them.
Suarez at Liverpool. They were still pretty good overall but he really spearhead that team. Nearly won them the title until they slipped up.
The point is that the basic requirement if we sell Pogba never mind Lukaku is a couple of attackers who will actually contribute to buildup play and goals along with a midfielder who will help us win the midfield battle and control matches consistently.
In that case, despite Pogba’s talent, we would end up with a much more disciplined and resilient side rather than relying on a CM who constantly tries the elaborate and exposes the team defensively.
In that case, despite Pogba’s talent, we would end up with a much more disciplined and resilient side rather than relying on a CM who constantly tries the elaborate and exposes the team defensively.
What is this weird obsession with “taking the game by the scruff of the neck”?
Just his creativity alone will give better players like benzema/Jovic/bale/Vinicius score plenty. Pogba is in there to feed the forwards and he does that plenty well enough considering how poor their movement and finishing is.
He will have people like Kroos and Casemiro helping him, if he can hit decent numbers in our crap team he will definitely do well there.
A bit of me thinks he's one of our major problems, another bit of me acknowledges he's our best player by a country mile. My gut says flog him, my brain...
Ever since his Zidane comments, he has been invisible and has had his head elsewhere. He's so far from captain material - supposed to be the leader, but fishing for a Real move. He seems pretty immature to me. Inconsistent and unreliable.
Takes 4-5 touches instead of just making our play fast and fluid.
For 120-150m couldn't we get a more consistent player?
Takes 4-5 touches instead of just making our play fast and fluid.
For 120-150m couldn't we get a more consistent player?
Yeah because he was going to say he's not leader if he's not right ?
We see the games by ourselves and leadership is something you evaluate on the pitch. Pogba isn't one of those you can say he's a leader or a captain for his team on the pitch. Doesn't seem like trying to push his teammates on the pitch when we're in trouble (actually he usually sinks with the rest of the team in such cases) and I don't think he talks much to the ref when an incorrect decision goes against us etc.
Giving team speeches but leadership on the pitch is visible for anyone really.
It's not against him he's not a leader quality. Many top players weren't/aren't. There's actually no reason to force it on him.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...t-manchester-united-says-ole-gunnar-solskjaer
"He is a World Cup winner, he is a leader in the dressing room, on the pitch as well. He wants the ball all the time."
https://www.90min.com/posts/6163807...rship-surprised-french-teammates-at-world-cup
"Paul has really moved up a notch in the dressing room. He had the right words, which has pushed us," Griezmann told French newspaper L’Equipe.
"Hugo [Lloris], Raph [Raphael Varane] and Blaise [Matuidi], we knew that they were there, but Paul, yes, we became more surprised and the way he spoke, it did us good."
https://www.independent.ie/sport/so...-leader-claims-didier-deschamps-37345878.html
“Another is that he arrived at the World Cup really prepared and he took on the mantle of leadership, on and off the pitch. He became a bit of a spokesman for the team and he can do that because he’s a good speaker.
Martial:
“We all know what quality Paul possesses – Paul is Paul,” Martial told Sky Sports. “Now he has got this freedom to play with, I think we are beginning to see the real Paul Pogba play and let’s hope it continues.
“He is a leader, he talks more in the dressing room than he does on the field to be fair. Technically and with the spoken word, he is a leader in both senses. I hope he can continue to lead us to great things."
We can disagree with his managers and teammates of course, all opinions. I personally think he could show more leadership on the pitch, but he does show it.
Replied on these just now. Instead of a very ordinary and normal praising quotes, we can actually, for once, use our own eyes to evaluate his leadership, or lack thereof, on the pitch.
Giving a team speech is fine but that's hardly leadership.
Do you see any leadership qualities from him on the pitch when we're in tight situation ? Yes or no ?
And as I said, it's no shame he's not leader as many top players aren't. No one forced leadership qualities on them though.
All good but as @Dirty Schwein said, he should decide a game on his own every once in a while, elevate the team, show his worth other than few good moves during a game. If he needs 4 players around him in midfield to work he's nothing else than a highlight reel player.
Yeah how many times to the likes of Kroos, Modric, Rakitic, Pjanjic, Thiago, etc grab games "by the scruff of the neck"?
The speech thing as strange. If there's one game in a pro footballers career they don't need a corny speech to get motivated it's a fecking world cup final!
I've backed him for so long, but I have to admit now, he isn't the man we can build a team around. He's too prone to these peaks and troughs in form that we can never rely on him to be consistent. That won't change at Madrid, and I suspect that he can only achieve this if he went to City or Juve. The former, because there's a stellar midfield there that has all the bases covered and will leave him free to do his stuff on the ball (though off the ball, I don't think Pep would much appreciate his lack of application), while at Juve the overall quality of the league would allow him to coast. The likes of Matuidi, Can, and to a lesser extent Khedira, being regulars for the midfield of the perennial champions there says it all.
That's not to say he's a bad player. He's not. He's a wonderful one, in fact. But he just simply doesn't fit in any reliable formation. He's not got enough consistent end product or cutting edge in being a consistent presence or influence on the game to be a 10, he's too ambitious and not clever enough in his short passing to be an orthodox CM, his off-the-ball game is near enough non-existent to be a 6 or part of the double pivot. The only position that really suits him is the spare man in the midfield 3, but nobody really plays the midfield 3 in that way in the modern game these days. There's usually a 6 and two 8s, or a double pivot and a 10 and like I've said, he doesn't have the characteristics to play those roles.
He's the cherry on top of the cake, but we still need the icing and the flour to make the cake in the first place. If he's willing to stay and build that with us then great, but if not, we should only sell him for £150m+ any less, and it's just simply not worth it. Coutinho went for a similar amount and doesn't have the marketability of Pogba. Unfortunately for Pogba with the three years left on his contract, he's royally screwed and no matter how much Raiola tries, he won't get much out of Woodward who has shown that he can be as intransigent as the best of them when he wants and needs to be. Raiola can try and force the move, but then that would probably put a black mark against him at one of the very few clubs around who would be willing to pay for his players on his exhorbitant terms.
He almost won United the game today and was unfortunate to hit the post twice
Let’s not give Keane too much credit here. Or overrate Pogba to the tune of being anywhere near Paul Scholes as a player.
Wanting a ball all the time isn't being a leader. Other than that it's about him speaking in dressing room. I never once got the feeling he's a leader on the pitch.
Almost. Like he almost made an assist vs Charles or what game was it. In any case it doesn't happen very often, on the contrary.
Well the guys who are on the pitch with him seem to think of him as a leader.
As I stated in a post above, he nearly won United the game when he hit the post twice, that was him taking things in his own hands. If he'd scored we wouldn't be having this conversation but its what it is. Again, i do think he can and should show more leadership. His managers and teammates see him as one
That speech was the most obviously setup piece of PR ever
Yup.
Do you think he's a leader in United team?
He wasn't bad today and I said that in his thread. Not great but not bad.
However hitting the bar twice is still not leadership, no ?
As I said leadership is trying to push your teammates forward when in trouble, standing for opposition players when they provoke your teammates, standing for the ref when he's giving incorrect decisions and talking with him etc. Basically becoming the vocal of the team on the pitch and be the one keeping his teammates motivated and pushed forward even when you're having an off day.
That's difference from having a good game or doing a good pass and all that.
His talent and quality is great. He's inconsistent but that's another story. The current point is he's hardly a leader on the pitch for his team and again that's not a shame. You mentioned it yourself Scholes wasn't a leader. Many top players weren't either so I don't get the idea of pushing the leadership quality on Pogba when it's obvious he's not really a leader on the pitch. Leadership is a bounce and not many have it.
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It is pointless for me as a fan who watches on tv to decide that. Only his coaches, teammates and people who work close with the club would know that.
What is a leader to you? By the way Im not disagreeing but I do find it hard to know what a leader would look like in this team.
Can't disagree with any of this
if we are to sell hopefully Woodwathever will not wait a week . before end of mercato sell, also hope we use . all the money generated to find two . good addition in midfield to cover his place
Someone who would rally the troops so to speak when things go wrong during a game. For instance today I saw Lindelof doing that, I'm not saying he's a leader but I never saw that from Pogba.
Thats silly. We're not deciding that, we either see something or not. French players said he talks in the dressing room. If that makes him a leader he's a big leader. Or if he wants the ball all the time.
Hmm I think this is quite old school in thinking, but fair enough
In sport most of the leadership happens in the dressing room or the training ground anyway.
Sell sell sell. He's got ability, we can all see that. However he's missing the heart and desire. Probably not happy that he's not our top earner most likely. Money seems to be the only thing these useless twats seem to care about. They certainly don't seem to mind not winning. They laugh and joke at the end of disappointing results like it's all okay.
Pogba is a huge problem. Clearly wants to leave so let him.
Pogba is a huge problem. Clearly wants to leave so let him.
I suspect that includes the coaching team
Edited it.
Whilst I don't think he is a great leader, I do think he shows initiative of the pitch and tries to make things happen no matter the circumstance.
I think we're making a mistake letting him leave.
He's a great player playing with crap around him and you can see that he knows that. Mentality wise he has given up a bit, but we need him to compete for the title when the team functions better.
Probably crap for a team struggling to compete to get top 4 but no doubt if we were a team competing in top 2 he would be useful
He's a great player playing with crap around him and you can see that he knows that. Mentality wise he has given up a bit, but we need him to compete for the title when the team functions better.
Probably crap for a team struggling to compete to get top 4 but no doubt if we were a team competing in top 2 he would be useful