True but what he is saying has always been true
Pogba Future
- Thread starter wolvored
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
True but what he is saying has always been true
I like how you say that as if they’re obscure players playing for some tin pot club in a diddy league.
Yes. That's exactly what it is. "Oh crap. All our mouthing off in the press has backfired. There really isn't the market for me that I assumed, so now I'll pretend to be happy, and no doubt I'll get a ludicrously over-inflated contract compared to what I'm worth from that imbecile Woodward".
Who are these mental people not voting Sandro and Dybala
I would like us to get rid of Pogba, but don’t see any reason to get those other two.
If we have any sense we’ll try Pogba alongside Fred or McTominay with Fernandes in his current role through to the end of the season and see just how committed Pogba is to United, if he performs the the level we know he can then I’m not against a new deal for him but if he doesn’t then sell him to the highest bidder.
It’s about what’s best for THE TEAM/SQUAD rather than shoehorning players in because of their name value/marketability and if Pogba can’t play or perform to a high level alongside Fernandes who’s now very much our talisman then for the good of the team he has to go, the best thing he could do for his career is get rid of that cnut Raiola and concentrate on matters on the pitch.
I love the idea of a fully motivated and performing Pogba with Sancho in the team and a starting 11 of De Gea, Wan-Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Fred, Pogba, Sancho, Fernandes, Rashford and Martial is a potentially title winning team in my mind but at the same time I’m a United supporter rather than a Pogba supporter and the team doing well means much more to me than specific players.
It’s about what’s best for THE TEAM/SQUAD rather than shoehorning players in because of their name value/marketability and if Pogba can’t play or perform to a high level alongside Fernandes who’s now very much our talisman then for the good of the team he has to go, the best thing he could do for his career is get rid of that cnut Raiola and concentrate on matters on the pitch.
I love the idea of a fully motivated and performing Pogba with Sancho in the team and a starting 11 of De Gea, Wan-Bissaka, Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Fred, Pogba, Sancho, Fernandes, Rashford and Martial is a potentially title winning team in my mind but at the same time I’m a United supporter rather than a Pogba supporter and the team doing well means much more to me than specific players.
The option is to choose though. I’ve not really thought that far ahead.
The fans actively trying to push him out are utterly insane.
Man Utd with Pogba are better then Man Utd without Pogba. Simple as.
That being said, the club need to tell him that he has to get a hold of his agent and his brothers.
Man Utd with Pogba are better then Man Utd without Pogba. Simple as.
That being said, the club need to tell him that he has to get a hold of his agent and his brothers.
If we've any sense, that's exactly what we won't do. Maybe we'll start doing that with some cameo roles towards the end of games where, either we have it in the bag, or we're really chasing, but I don't think he should be just put in to see how it goes. The people who have shown they want to be here and proven their worth should stay in the team.
This would be terrible for team morale if he came in, I think. He's liked I think, as a character, in the dressing room. From what I can tell anyway. But, they're not stupid. They can see how he's been angling for a move away. To put him back immediately into the lineup over McTominay or Fred, or even Matic, would be disastrous.
I don't think he will sign before euro's.
Completely disagree. He's been trying to push his way out. We realise that the club is far, far bigger than he. Off with him, we're just helping him out the door that he's so actively trying to open for himself.
Is the team better with him? I don't know. I remember years ago, when Newcastle signed Asprilla. I said to a guy I was working with, that he was a great player, but I thought he'd cost Newcastle the title. And he did, amongst other things. He totally unbalanced the team.
I think Pogba might very well unbalance this team. What is it that we're missing, that he gives us? We've Bruno creating numerous chances. We've Fred and McTominay and Matic shielding the back line, thus leading to our great run of clean sheets.
Let him show he's actually committed by coming back and sitting on the bench, staying quiet and working hard to get into the team. BUt honestly, first choice is sell the virus. Except, there's unsurprisingly going to be no market.
People rating Grealish over Pogba is complete crazy talk.
You can not like him due to all the other issues that come with him, but Grealish has proven nothing yet, compared to Pogba who has dominated our attacking metrics for a few seasons, with no real quality around him.
You can not like him due to all the other issues that come with him, but Grealish has proven nothing yet, compared to Pogba who has dominated our attacking metrics for a few seasons, with no real quality around him.
Looks like nobody is interested, then.
The article also mentions a new deal with a pay rise - a pay RISE! - What on earth has he done to warrant that!
A lot of this is speculation. How do you know Pogba has been trying to push his way out?
Be sure, if Pogba was desperately tying to leave, he would have. Look at Coutinho.
People have just made up their minds about him. "He's faking an injury"...I mean come on ffs!
There is no evidence we would be better off without him. Pogba in his three and half years here has consistently had to play in dysfunctional upon dysfunctional teams.
Who in that time has been consistent?
People just allow themselves to be swayed by issues that are not really relevant. I admit he has some faults. His agent is a loose cannon, he is sometimes coy about his future but which footballer isn't? All of his teammates have nothing but positive words to say about him.
And tbh, I am not even that big on him. I wanted Pjanic before he arrived.
I don't feel he shuld walk back into the team and I am sure he won't but actively calling for us to sell him is insane, if he wants to stay.
I would have him on a play to earn contract. 100 pound a game. May go up with goals and assists.
It's speculation, true. But, look at the words from his agent, look at the words from his brother. It's pretty clear he's using them as his mouthpiece. Yes, technically it's speculation. Do you honestly believe it's not the case though? If you do, fair play to you.A lot of this is speculation. How do you know Pogba has been trying to push his way out?
Be sure, if Pogba was desperately tying to leave, he would have. Look at Coutinho.
People have just made up their minds about him. "He's faking an injury"...I mean come on ffs!
There is no evidence we would be better off without him. Pogba in his three and half years here has consistently had to play in dysfunctional upon dysfunctional teams.
Who in that time has been consistent?
People just allow themselves to be swayed by issues that are not really relevant. I admit he has some faults. His agent is a loose cannon, he is sometimes coy about his future but which footballer isn't? All of his teammates have nothing but positive words to say about him.
And tbh, I am not even that big on him. I wanted Pjanic before he arrived.
I don't feel he shuld walk back into the team and I am sure he won't but actively calling for us to sell him is insane, if he wants to stay.
I think it's pretty clear what's happening. He suddenly wants to stay because other teams have let it be known they're not going in for him. He realises his tricks and games have backfired. Obviously, speculation. But it's pretty obvious in my opinion.
So, the reason he wants to stay is not because he suddenly wants to sweat and bleed for the Man United cause.
Just look at his history here. When things are going well, grand, he's a good footballer to have. When they're not? As they basically haven't been for most of his time here, you hear of how he wants out regularly. Is that the kind of character we need in the team while trying to rebuild? Definitely not.
Coutinho is a great point. Look at him exactly. He wanted out ... he was their best player. How has that worked out for him? How has it worked out for Liverpool?
Ta-ra Pogba.
This is where I and a lot of fans disagree. There is nothing wrong with wanting to go a better team of there is the opportunity. If he signs a contract, it is because he is committed here. He like every other player has no obligation to stay here through thick and thin. He shouldn't even pretend to. What is important is that when he goes on the pitch, does he give 100%. Many fans confuse inconsistency with not giving a shit.
He has no control of what the papers say. Do you honestly think Mathias Pogba tells him that he is going on El Chingorito to tell the world he wants out? It has no bearing on his character. The only person that has ever worked with him and has a problem is Mr Mourinho. And Mourinho is not credible.
I don't think people believe Grealish is better than Pogba, that would be madness. I think people are asking themselves are Oxlade-Chamberlain and Naby Keita better than Coutinho? Obviously not but selling Coutinho actually made Liverpool better as a unit. No 'i' in team and all that.
Yorke wasn't Cantona (just better than Teddy), Saha wasn't Van Nistlerooy, sometimes you can replace a player with an inferior model but get better as a team.
I think its right to ask: 'Is it worth £400k a week to keep Pogba?' Especially when, let's be frank, if Juve or Madrid really wanted him he would leave in a heartbeat and there are rumours of young, hungry, up and comers like Grealish who do want to play for us.
As long as he gives a shit and he can shake this injury then him staying at the club can only be a good thing, especially if come the summer he’s surrounded by actual footballers and not mediocrity like Andreas and Lingard.
Oh yeah I can definitely see the argument for having hungry players taking people's places that aren't interested. But, Pogba has performed when he's played. I think his injury hit season combined with wanting to leave last summer is clouding a lot of people's judgements. Even this season, he came back from injury early, played against Rochdale and then needed an operation. Though if you looked on here it would seem it's all been fabricated and he hasn't wanted to play for us all season.
I agree with the comments a few others have made, in that it's similar to the Rooney situation. A top class player, in their peak years, at a club that is going through transition. If those guarantees aren't there, you are going to start to question if it's the best place to spend the defining years of your career.
Everyone talks about nobody else wanting him, or being able to afford him.
Maybe he can actually see an improvement in this team. He wanted to leave because we were on the slide and looked doomed to many more years of mediocrity. A world class, World Cup winner, who nobody could blame for wanting to join a club that’s seriously competing for trophies every season rather that slumming it with a club in the middle of a serious rebuild. Now he looks at this team and can see the potential.
Maybe he can actually see an improvement in this team. He wanted to leave because we were on the slide and looked doomed to many more years of mediocrity. A world class, World Cup winner, who nobody could blame for wanting to join a club that’s seriously competing for trophies every season rather that slumming it with a club in the middle of a serious rebuild. Now he looks at this team and can see the potential.
Nobody not wanting Pogba this summer would have no correlation with him wanting to sign a new contract. If he wants to leave he won't extend his contract and will have just to wait to leave on the cheap if other clubs aren't meeting the current asking price. Some of you lots just love giving yourselves headaches coming up with every sort of nonsense when it comes to Pogba. Get over you pettiness and bitterness then grow the feck up.
Pogba is a very good player or even great on his day but those days most of the times are what we call puple patch with other player. I am indifference if he stay or not. Like many said already, it looks like some of the below poibts is happening now.
-Looks like the 2/3 teams that can have somewhat reluctant to pursue him be it the price we qoute add with his wages.
-his performances with UTD the last few years are somewhat not really setting the world alight. This can be because of many variables but he should be able to lift or drag the teama most time than not to win the games. Just look at RVP when he drag us to win the league. Hes sometimes looks disinterested and moody and that rubs off on your team too.
-Now i know hes a very good player or world class by some people definition. But what i want to know is if the way the balance now work is if its better for us to buy Grealish or maybe add a cm/cdm and sell him. This by no means to say hes not good, its just that the last few years we focus on building the team around him and i think that more or less making the team losing the balance because we all know that hes not going to track back to help the team most of the time judging by his last few years performances.
I think theres too many incidences, sideshows and baggages that coming from his side that its better for both parties to part ways because what Ole is trying to creat here are the cultures that players play as a teams, helping each other out, leadership. Pogba i think hes more of playing for himselves, focus more on his image. Maybe both UTD and him was never made for each other.
-Looks like the 2/3 teams that can have somewhat reluctant to pursue him be it the price we qoute add with his wages.
-his performances with UTD the last few years are somewhat not really setting the world alight. This can be because of many variables but he should be able to lift or drag the teama most time than not to win the games. Just look at RVP when he drag us to win the league. Hes sometimes looks disinterested and moody and that rubs off on your team too.
-Now i know hes a very good player or world class by some people definition. But what i want to know is if the way the balance now work is if its better for us to buy Grealish or maybe add a cm/cdm and sell him. This by no means to say hes not good, its just that the last few years we focus on building the team around him and i think that more or less making the team losing the balance because we all know that hes not going to track back to help the team most of the time judging by his last few years performances.
I think theres too many incidences, sideshows and baggages that coming from his side that its better for both parties to part ways because what Ole is trying to creat here are the cultures that players play as a teams, helping each other out, leadership. Pogba i think hes more of playing for himselves, focus more on his image. Maybe both UTD and him was never made for each other.
Not necessarily. Cristiano Ronaldo signed a new deal not long before he left United.
Footballers generally don't see new deals as anything other than getting a pay rise. Most footballers think that if they really want to leave a club they'll be able to get out of their contracts. Frankly, apart from PSG and City, nobody can really afford to pay a player hundreds of thousands of pounds a week to do a Tevez and go and play golf in Argentina when they should be playing.
I am not sure people are feeling petty about Pogba, its questioning how much he will give to the cause if he doesn't actually want to play for United all that much. Of course if he takes back what he said last summer about wanting a new challenge, and if Mino backtracks on his previous statements, then maybe people will start to believe Pogba was worth a pay rise. Between December 2018 and February 2019 Pogba was the best midfielder in the league. Let's see that for six months straight and then we can talk pay bumps.
It should be clear, if they only want to pay 50m (if reports are true) they aren't going to be paying the wages/ signing on money that he wants either.
Very little. But, realistically, if he's going to sign a new deal that will involve a pay rise.
We can (perhaps) hope that those offering him that deal aren't silly enough to...no, nevermind.
Ideally, he should be offered a new deal that is very much performance related, with the base salary not being increased to a - well - silly degree.
But the Ronaldo's case was different. He was promised to be let go off the following season and as a deal he signed a new contract so we could sell for as much money as we could. Very different situation to what Pogba is facing.
If Pogba desperately wants to leave then he won't sign an extension because he'd know that the club will still be going for high demands and given some theories most Pogba detractors have conjured up, it wouldn't make sense for him to do so. Remember people are now claiming that it's because other clubs aren't going to meet United current asking price and don't see his value that high that he choose to stay, but if that's the case then running down his contract rather than extend would make sense given that he'll finally be able to go on the cheap and have his wish.
Also you have to ask yourself why Pogba doesn't want to be here in the first place. The reason for that is because he's seen as languishing in mediocrity for several years and he sees himself as someone that should be playing for a top team contending for trophies in leagues and champions league. Obviously his ambitions weren't met in his time at United and might have thought to seek a top team elsewhere. No top player would want to waste their primes years playing for a team that doesn't amount to much when it comes to challenging for trophies and so forth.
Now with us finally seeing concrete evidence of us improving, showing some genuine ambitions, it's not that surprising that he could see things turning around and would want to stay here. Real Madrid isn't some sort of childhood dream team to him for him to want to go there no matter what, the primary reason for him seeking a movie there or teams like Juventus is because they are contending for trophies and play in the CL. If/When Man United start showing proper ambitions and actual progress it would't be surprising to see him change his mind because at the end of the day what he seeks is to play for a top team challenging.
Things have turned around recently, we've brought in good and top players, we've finally shown real ambition and things are looking up. Is it really surprising that he'd do a U turn in such a case? Afterall if things go the way they are currently looking and what all of us are hoping then he'll have what he wishes for which is [lay for a proper top team contending for trophies and playing in the champions league.
You think our best player will not ‘ever be as good for us’ as a player we haven’t signed?
So now because it seems no other club wants Pogba for what we want for him, and because we are playing better now, he suddenly is open to a new contract.
I said our biggest problem would be finding a team who want, and that we are massively overrating him. Now the reality is we are stuck with him even if we wanted to push him out we couldn't unless we drop our price significantly.
I said our biggest problem would be finding a team who want, and that we are massively overrating him. Now the reality is we are stuck with him even if we wanted to push him out we couldn't unless we drop our price significantly.
Not this old rubbish again. Pogba last season had his best season EVER in terms of goals and assists.
Stastically he is doing EVERYTHING better in terms of passing, tackling creating than he did back in Juve.
The differerence is nobody actually watched him for Juve apart from a few fancy youtube goals. All you melons just take these fake facts as gospel and spew them back out, it's ridiculous.
He had a better team behind him at Juve, he was not the man solely relient on the team performing. Now United are actually pulling their weight he will stop being used as a scapegoat.
There's no 'probably' about it.
Hopefully, yes.
It still has to be mentioned (again) that the Juve setup allowed him to play in a rather free-ish attacking midfielder role - which is the only role he has ever truly excelled in for my money.
Most people now seem to think he'll either come in alongside Fred as a deeper (by default) central midfielder (somewhat similar, perhaps, to the role he has played for France) or alongside Bruno in some kind of Pep style midfield.
The former could work if Pogba is up for it and willing to play a more restricted game - but we have no designated DM of unquestionable quality (and you could certainly question whether it's a role that gets the best out of him). The latter is a pipe dream, I'd say - not something which would work against anything but genuine cannon fodder. Our system isn't made for that sort of thing - Ole isn't Pep.
In games where we are heavy favourites then yes he can play in a 2 man midfield, he's shown that plenty but he also needs a hard working partner next to him.
I think everybody forgets the majority of the time at United he's played behind people like Mata or Lingard, and had Matic next to him. Matic was playing injured and could hardly run for about 75% of the matches they played together.
In games where it'll be a tougher battle (Top 6, europe etc) then he can be played further forward with more defensive options behind. If it's a battle between him and Bruno for the 10 then so be it, but I think we can adapt the team to fit them both in personally.
It just seems crazy that people would rather sell a great player than help him improve, look how short sighted most people were with Fred. If they had there way he would have been gone in the summer.
Rabiot is finally showing signs of a star in the making at Juventus.
Tonali will end up at Juventus soon for around 50 million.
Add that to Ramsey and Pjanic and Juventus will be thinking they are fine in central mid, and that money should be spent on more urgent areas of the pitch.
Juventus would probably love to include Ramsey in a Pogba deal, but Ramsey is not going to go from 400,000 a week to 200,000. He will happily sit on the bench rather than move anywhere on a pay cut.
So my thinking is, Juventus have told Pogba to do one, Madrid too, and this is the reason behind his sudden change of heart.
Anyways would be nice to see a hungry on form Pogba for a change at Utd, to see what he can do in a much improved team.
Tonali will end up at Juventus soon for around 50 million.
Add that to Ramsey and Pjanic and Juventus will be thinking they are fine in central mid, and that money should be spent on more urgent areas of the pitch.
Juventus would probably love to include Ramsey in a Pogba deal, but Ramsey is not going to go from 400,000 a week to 200,000. He will happily sit on the bench rather than move anywhere on a pay cut.
So my thinking is, Juventus have told Pogba to do one, Madrid too, and this is the reason behind his sudden change of heart.
Anyways would be nice to see a hungry on form Pogba for a change at Utd, to see what he can do in a much improved team.
We can afford Grealish if we qualify for CL. It's that simple.
A midfield of Pogba, Bruno, Grealish, McT, Matic, and Fred will be formidable. 6 central players for the whole season, seems well stocked to challenge at all front.
Let's be realistic here, we're two injury away from playing Perreira and Lingard.
If Alexis leaves, Pogba can have that salary.
I agree with that provided he actually wants to stay himself.
Generally, people are loons - sure. Fred was supposedly a complete "fraud" we only bought to - I don't even remember the reason - spite Pep (who rated him - but only to spite us) or something.
If Ole can make him work - in whatever capacity - we have a very good player on our hands who absolutely shouldn't be moved on due to being a supposed "virus" or whatever people think he is.
There are question marks over him, though - I don't think that's debatable.
Why would it. Less than two years left on a contract massively decreases the transfer value. He holds a lot of the cards right now. A new five year contract means that he’s shifting all the power back to us. It’s basically the rest of his top flight career. He wouldn’t do that unless he actually wants to stay.
not a great comparison. Pogba was a a record signing, supposed to be our best player, the face of the team, the player we build the team around. He's made it clear since very early on he doesn't want to be here. His agent has regularly told the press this, shopped him to our biggest rivals behind our backs, Pogba himself has said he wants a change and his brother also regularly pops up with nonsense about moving. Don't think for one minute his bro and agent aren't speaking without his blessing, if they weren't a public statement detailing his love for the club and willingness to stay would settle the debate. He's trying to be smart, he wants a move but as last summer proves there's not a lot of clubs in for him or who will pay for him. He thinks by him not saying anything publicly recently about wanting out, that will keep him sweet with the fans, and by letting his agent speak it let's clubs know he's still open to move, trying to play both sides of the coin. Fred is a workhorse, one we overpaid for but who took a while to settle, now he has, he looks good and clearly loves playing for us. He wasn't sold, club obviously knew from training he had the ability and stuck with him. If Pogba wanted to stay, and put in as much effort on the pitch as he and his agent do off it, I don't think anyone would want him gone. What he's doing now though is just plain disrespectful.
The lad needs to get fit and then earn his place in the team back first and foremost before we start talking about new contracts. Let's see if he can actually get in to the team and help improve us further.
Personally I wouldn't entertain contract talks at all with him until he bins off Mino, tells his brothers to stop talking about him, and he comes out and makes it clear United is the place for him long term. The thought of Mino lining his pockets on the back of a new contract after all the shite he has spouted in interviews and online makes me sick. This all smells of other clubs he was being touted to not showing an interest, and if that is the case then he needs to ask himself why and make the changes he needs to. The way the circus surrounding him go about their business is it any wonder other clubs aren't fighting for his signature?
Personally I wouldn't entertain contract talks at all with him until he bins off Mino, tells his brothers to stop talking about him, and he comes out and makes it clear United is the place for him long term. The thought of Mino lining his pockets on the back of a new contract after all the shite he has spouted in interviews and online makes me sick. This all smells of other clubs he was being touted to not showing an interest, and if that is the case then he needs to ask himself why and make the changes he needs to. The way the circus surrounding him go about their business is it any wonder other clubs aren't fighting for his signature?
He's a professional that wants to win, he's been fed up of playing with dross for years and I can't really blame him. He obviously became disallusioned at the club failing to add some good players alongside him.
Do you really think if Bruno stays here for 3/4 years and wins nothing, he won't do exactly the same thing if Madrid/Barca come for him?
Now he's seen Bruno come in and lift the place, players are excited and palying well, perhaps Ole has told him the plan for the summer (Sancho, Grealish) etc... he's probably happy to stay as long as they don't break that promise.
It's up to the club to convince him not the other way around.
This is exactly what it is and I hope the club don't fall for it. While pogba may be a world class player but clearly we are intending to head down another route, of finding players more suited to the culture, work ethic and lack of circus.
It'll be good for all to remember how he just flat out said in an interview how he wishes to explore other opportunities and then his agent has been mouthing off all this time.
I really really hope ole does not bend over on this.