Denmark was roughly the same as those other two. Their golden generation peaked in 1984-86.
1992 was just Schmeichel and Brian Laudrup that you could associate gold with.
Portugal | WC 2022 Discussion | Roberto Martinez to become next manager
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1992 was just Schmeichel and Brian Laudrup that you could associate gold with.
They were shite the entire time he was in charge. He had a really top group of players, and he never got them playing. They weren't better than France because of Martinez. The team was plenty good enough to win something, or at least play some cracking football while losing. Instead they lost like the England of old.
He still started Eden Hazard at the WC despite him not even accumulating more than 100 minutes in la Liga this season over Trossard who meanwhile was playing out of his mind at Brighton.
My guess would be no.
You don't get much luckier than getting into the tournament in the first place due to the country you replaced collapsing into civil war.
I'm talking about the games, not what happened off the pitch.
Not Denmark's fault that Balkanic war happened.
Denmark was a fair winner of Euro 1992.
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I'm talking about the way of winning, not just the names, Greece was a sore eye, and Portugal 2016 only past group stage thanks to the 3rd place team rule added after going from 16 to 24 teams.
That's your opinion, and it's based on fantasy stuff that never happened.
Losing while playing cracking football is the same shit, Brazil playing very good against Croatia and still lost on penalties...it didn't matter.
If they lose playing cracking football, the narrative goes to "pretty football, but not good enough to win"
Not really the Brazil final wasn’t Messi who took that team to the final the same way wasn’t Messi who took his team to the final, Di Maria was the man who won the WC and when they subbed him France came back. The only player I saw making a difference in a WC was Maradona and anyone who says Messi or Ronaldo are the GOAT then they never watched Maradona or Pele play (Pele wasn’t from my time but I saw a few games and he was GOOD)
Greece won Euro 2004 in a fashion that would 100% be frowned upon by people. Antithesis to how Spain won 08 and 12. But they still won.
When Southgate leaves England, no guarantee England advance farther than they have under him. May play a little nicer by sticking with a back 4 and using Rice as an anchor with Bellingham and a more traditional 8, but results are what matters.
Chris Coleman did really well for Wales, but never materialized as a club manager after that. Southgate will go the same way.
How has Roberto martinez got this job? He did absolutely nothing with Belgium.
Really quite surprised by this one tbh. Martinez has hardly proven to be reliable, and considering the depth of talent in their squad, Belgium had a woeful WCup run. Similarly, Portugal are an extremely capable side so I just can’t see why the Portuguese FA rushed into this decision?
I don't think it's opinion. You either have the performance in you to win something, like that Brazil team, or you don't, like Martinez's Belgium. Narrative has nothing to do with it.
His whole career has been an upward trajectory almost with absolutely no reasoning for it. His teams aren’t good. He will be fired from here and end up as Barcelona manager. I don’t know who this mans agent is but he sure knows how to sell shit.
I know ye. It’s like us getting promoted at work for no reason
His jobs are making him look better then he actually is.Well we're used to have bad managers so I'm just numb.
You could say only into group stage thanks to ruling out of Yugoslavia?
Identical group stage to Greece (1W1D1L). Their knockouts were more fun (2-2 and 2-0 vs 3x boring 1-0) but overall Greece performed better/earned it as much or more (4W1D1L vs 2W2D1L).
The Greeks beat Portugal twice, opening game and final game, in Portugal. That makes for major eternal bragging rights. Cue some PRonaldo fan now saying that wasn't really his team but Figo's, or something.
Huh?
Of course not but they hadn't qualified until that unfortunate occurrence, due to what Denmark did on the pitch in qualifying, and then got an extraordinary stroke of luck allowing entry to the finals. That surely qualifies as luck does it not?
What are you talking about: Denmark played a very defensive football in that tournament, using a very compact 5x3x2 with two mobile forward players that would fall deep when out of possession.
5-3-2 that did indeed wasn't very defensive when on the pitch.
Yes, i watched the games, they even scored a couple of golazos, and they were way more entertaining than Greece, which was 10 men behind the ball and praying for corners and set pieces, and they should have lost to Czech Republic if Milan Baros knew how to score, even got the luck of Nedved getting injured.
In terms of football shown, Greece is the worst winners of Euro i remember, maybe challenged by Portugal 2016, but at least Portugal scored more open goals in knockout out stage.
Brazil didn't win, they got eliminated.
Brazilians are still mad about that, they don't care about "we had the performance", they are shitting on their players for not scoring when they should.
The thing I don't understand is, if the Portuguese FA wanted an average coach why did they not just choose an average Portuguese coach?
Given the Portugal-Spanish rivalry this decision just seems weird. It reminds me of when Brendan Rogers was linked with United. It just felt like he was on a hiding to nothing. You bring that baggage with you, unless your results are perfect its going to turn really ugly fast.
You can imagine how the Spanish will revel in it if Martinez does badly: 'Agent Roberto'. #ChringuitoMartinez will become regular watching. I'm surprised people at the Portuguese FA were actually willing to do this.
I have to say while I don't have nothing personally against Martinez I am not that optimistic he is the kind of guy needed to make big decisions, particularly leaving some historic names out of the squad.
Hope I am wrong, but looking at Belgium in 2022 he doesn't seem a confrontational type of person.
Hope I am wrong, but looking at Belgium in 2022 he doesn't seem a confrontational type of person.
Playing offensive football in international tournaments indeed doesn't warrant anything.
I don't know where some people get the idea that offensive football = silverware, maybe they are still thinking about Pele's Brazil.
In modern times, only Spain 08-12 are the only team i can remember being offensive and winning stuff, Argentina in their Copa and WC wins were a pragmatic team, so were France in 2018 and Germany in 2014 (except the game against Brazil).
England played well against France, people still complained cause they lost despite playing well and call the players 'chokers'.
Totally agree about the Greece and I have to say Portugal in 2016 was not that far in terms of clearly not being a very solid side (Portugal was almost eliminated on groups stage), although not as painful as Greece because at least games were entertaining (that game vs Croatia was a rollercoaster: Croatia shoots twice at the post and Portugal scores on the counter on the same play.)
I also watched that beautiful Euro 92, the last one who was tremendously competitive because there was so few qualified teams. Denmark actually was pretty lucky on group stage: managed to hold a 0-0 against England despite the brits doing a very decent game and against France it was a game of 100% heart.
That combo Laudrup + Povlsen was quite good: Brian was the amazing dribler and had that top notch acceleration, Povlsen was a fighter. But the 1986 team was much better and was actually considered one of the possible winners of the WC at the time, but Mexico 1986 was not very well organized and many teams suffered with it.
The Portugal-Spain rivalry in football is very mild though, it's not like England hiring a german coach or vice versa, or Brazil hiring and argentinian coach or vice versa.
I'm still surprised they hired a manager that did very bad in his last tournament, wether or not he is spanish.
It would make more sense if Portugal hired Martinez after 2018 WC, when he got 3rd place with Belgium.
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I have zero problems with having a spanish manager and I think for the Federation is the same.
We have an inferiority complex in football regarding other nations (like Spain), despite what we say we still consider us to be a "small" nation and not on the same level as powerhouses like Spain.
This mentality is everywhere in the portuguese national team from the players to the president.
This is why we never go extra like other equally good teams go, say Spain, Germany, etc, have destroyed (not just defeated) other big teams when given the chance while we just do "good enough" and don't ambition more.
The point is what you said, is Martínez the real thing we needed?
What are his attributes that makes him good for the job?
Does he have a specific philosophy we want to implement?
What separates him from other random (portuguese or not) managers?
I liked a lot the format of the Euros with 16 teams, personally hate this current model of 24 teams, even if we benefited a lot of that model because in 2016 and 2021 we qualified on third place in the group stage instead being knocked out, even if our performance in 2016 improved during the knockouts, at least from an defensive point of view.
Best Euros in terms of quality for me was in 2000, high quality of football and top players performing at their best, in 2004 the Czech Republic deserved to win that tournament.
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Agree about Euro 2004. The Czechs missed so many goals against Greece, I felt sorry for them.
Yeah its not a vicious rivalry but there is still a lot of banter involved. If Portugal does disastrously under a Spanish coach the Spanish are going to make hay of it. Whenever my Spanish and Portuguese friends are together it only takes a glass of the good stuff for Philip II and Joao the Restorer to be mentioned. Its all good fun but nobody wants to be the butt of someone else's joke.
You pose some good questions and, frankly, I don't think there are good answers to any of them.
Personally I don't see it as a big deal Martinez being from Spain, like someone said previously Portugal vs Spain in Football terms is relatively soft compared with Argentina vs Brazil and so on, at best if Martinez does shit he will be insulted on Social Media as a guy from Spain, and our media will remember him where he was born, that and the usual idiot coaches who will ask why did they hired a foreign coach. It's a non issue.
My point with him is if he is independent to make his own decisions knowing how things work here...
The political situation in Belgium is not easy to handle either: if you call more flemish players than french, french people will complain and vice-versa. The internal rivalry in Belgium is insane.
For me it's about 2 things. Is he able to start a new cycle without Ronaldo and Pepe? The second is regarding tactics. Will he go on a 343 or will he try something different here that he has done with Belgium?
I can safely say you didn't watch Belgium very often. The team played terrible boring football before Martinez was appointed with the same star players, the difference was night and day. In fact, sometimes Santos' Portugal reminds me of Belgium under Wilmots.
Martinez might not be a top tier coach, but he is very good at organizing attacks, which Portugal team has the talent to do.
There is no dislike between the average Spaniard and Portuguese. Not sure where this idea even comes from? Historical rivalries aside, the last real conflict between the two countries occurred over 200 years ago. Long gone are the days of 1580-1640. There is a reason why the oldest border in Europe is the Spanish-Portuguese one. No need to mention the close linguistic, cultural, religious, geographic, ancestral etc. ties between the two nations. Heck, in Spain we even have pseudo-Portuguese people called Galicians. The football rivalry is intact but you don't really feel it that much. It has probably something to do with Spain, at least in this century, mostly ending up victorious or advancing whenever the two neighbors have played each other. I only recall the 2004 EURO exit to Portugal. Even the recent Nations League meeting was a Spain win. Not sure how our Portuguese friends are looking at this rivalry but if the appointment of a Spanish manager is anything to go by, they probably look at this rivalry in a similar way.
I see a lot of criticism that Roberto Martínez was appointed. I think that this is a somewhat harsh criticism. Belgium were one of the best teams during the 2018 World Cup where they won bronze. IMO the best achievement of Belgium to date. 3 years later Belgium lost against the champions Italy during the 2020 EUROS. If not for Lukaku being an absolute donkey in front of goal against Croatia, Belgium would likely have progressed and probably advanced against Japan. A Belgium team and a Belgium "golden generation" that in many ways is past its best.
Anyway what was exactly the alternative? Mourinho is finished and would be an appointment not much different from continuing with Santos. There was Jorge Jesus who would probably have been a better pick, Portuguese as well, but I have heard that he has a difficult personality and we don't know if he declined such a job.
Most top managers don't really want to manage national teams until they get old. Van Gaal would have been an interesting pick though but the current version of Van Gaal is extremely pragmatic and not that far from Santos.
I mean look at Lionel Scaloni in Argentina. Before he became a NT coach and won all 3 trophies that he can win in the span of 1.5 years, he was a nobody in terms of managerial experience and not many years ago he was even a part of the freak show that is El Chiringuito de Jugones.
I think that Martínez style (pragmatic + offensive football) would fit the current Portugal squad. He has to part ways with C. Ronaldo though to start a new chapter.
The Portuguese NT should probably have won more honors other than just the Euro win in 2016 but on the other hand the same could be said about many nations, Spain included, who until recently, aside from the 1964 Euro win, was a notorious underachiever despite much great talent. What to say about the Netherlands?
Anyway I thought that this supposed Portuguese inferiority complex pretty much ended in 2016 and in the past 20 years given the many great Portuguese players in European football and in particular the rise of C. Ronaldo?
Anyway how do you and other Portuguese people see the future role of C. Ronaldo for the national team? The next tournament is the Euro in 2024. By then he will be 39 years, approaching 40 years. Surely he won't and should not play a role by then? If so, would it not be easier to call it a day with him from March on (give him his deserved testimonial and be done with it) or do you think that C. Ronaldo would love to further stat pad (now that he is in KSA of all places) against the likes of Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Iceland, Slovakia and Bosnia? (Talk about an easy group, lol).
The football rivalry is intact but you don't really feel it that much. It has probably something to do with Spain, at least in this century, mostly ending up victorious or advancing whenever the two neighbors have played each other. I only recall the 2004 EURO exit to Portugal. Even the recent Nations League meeting was a Spain win. Not sure how our Portuguese friends are looking at this rivalry but if the appointment of a Spanish manager is anything to go by, they probably look at this rivalry in a similar way.I see a lot of criticism that Roberto Martínez was appointed. I think that this is a somewhat harsh criticism. Belgium were one of the best teams during the 2018 World Cup where they won bronze. IMO the best achievement of Belgium to date. 3 years later Belgium lost against the champions Italy during the 2020 EUROS. If not for Lukaku being an absolute donkey in front of goal against Croatia, Belgium would likely have progressed and probably advanced against Japan. A Belgium team and a Belgium "golden generation" that in many ways is past its best.
Anyway what was exactly the alternative? Mourinho is finished and would be an appointment not much different from continuing with Santos. There was Jorge Jesus who would probably have been a better pick, Portuguese as well, but I have heard that he has a difficult personality and we don't know if he declined such a job.
Most top managers don't really want to manage national teams until they get old. Van Gaal would have been an interesting pick though but the current version of Van Gaal is extremely pragmatic and not that far from Santos.
I mean look at Lionel Scaloni in Argentina. Before he became a NT coach and won all 3 trophies that he can win in the span of 1.5 years, he was a nobody in terms of managerial experience and not many years ago he was even a part of the freak show that is El Chiringuito de Jugones.
I think that Martínez style (pragmatic + offensive football) would fit the current Portugal squad. He has to part ways with C. Ronaldo though to start a new chapter.
Which is strange as your current crop of players are IMO more talented than Spain's let alone Italy's. Which is no easy feet for a nation of 10 million people. As I see it, Portugal has always punched above its weight in European club football, mainly courtesy of Benfica and Porto. No need to mention the many great Portuguese players throughout history.
The Portuguese NT should probably have won more honors other than just the Euro win in 2016 but on the other hand the same could be said about many nations, Spain included, who until recently, aside from the 1964 Euro win, was a notorious underachiever despite much great talent. What to say about the Netherlands?
Anyway I thought that this supposed Portuguese inferiority complex pretty much ended in 2016 and in the past 20 years given the many great Portuguese players in European football and in particular the rise of C. Ronaldo?
Anyway how do you and other Portuguese people see the future role of C. Ronaldo for the national team? The next tournament is the Euro in 2024. By then he will be 39 years, approaching 40 years. Surely he won't and should not play a role by then? If so, would it not be easier to call it a day with him from March on (give him his deserved testimonial and be done with it) or do you think that C. Ronaldo would love to further stat pad (now that he is in KSA of all places) against the likes of Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Iceland, Slovakia and Bosnia? (Talk about an easy group, lol).
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When he took over Belgium after Wilmots was fired he switched to 3-4-3 from the first game on because he knew Belgium had (and still has) no real leftbacks. And it worked. I doubt he'll keep that system if he has the right players at his disposition.
'Walloon players' you mean ?
Yes, sorry. Was doing a literal translation from portuguese.