Only Januzaj is inexplicable...not sure the others would have been happy sitting on the bench
PL L FA Premier League
Arsenal 3:0 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Sun, 04 October 2015
Only Januzaj is inexplicable...not sure the others would have been happy sitting on the bench
Plus one of our main rivals have imploded this season. Even if things go badly it's hard to see us finishing lower than third and there's no real reason to think things will go badly.
Not a bad position to be in at the start of October.
the notion we were ordinary in Second half is plain stupid. We played second half how we should have started..We imposed ourself on them
In normal circumstances, yes. 3-0 20 minutes in isnt normal for Man Utd - Arsenal...there should've been a far greater impetus to get back in it before HT for me.
Unfortunately so, we still need to add another central midfielder and perhaps demote Carrick to 4th choice. He doesn't have the mobility to play as our defensive midfielder anymore and doesn't have the attacking ability of the likes of Schweinsteiger or Herrera play as the other CM.
the game was settled in the first 20 mins where a superb Arsenal start was complemented fantastically by a tactically and defensively naive United performance....
it wasn't until half time that we had any kind of grip on the game and Van Gaal's inability to change things early on was baffling
when we did have the ball we were again too slow - Martial's great chance came more by great strength and skill by him and we only had a few other chances - when we did start to look like we might threaten Wenger changed it dropping Ramsey back....which more or less snuffed us out
couldn't understand the tactical setup as anyone who has saw Arsenal for the last 10 years know how you set up against them - seemed like he was trying to get Schweinsteiger to press beyond our strikers at times which was idiotic considering Arsenal's real strength is with Sanchez, Ramsey, Ozil and Cazorla and we left far too much room for them to enjoy
think that annoyed me the most though was Memphis.....lazy fecker barely helped Young out at all - when we needed a backs to the wall performance I felt he went missing - he showed no real conviction or bravery going forward either
we really missed the aggression we used to get from Rooney.....he used to bully that Arsenal side - he tried though which is more than what you can say for Memphis....
the main culprit has to be Van Gaal though....poor setup
it wasn't until half time that we had any kind of grip on the game and Van Gaal's inability to change things early on was baffling
when we did have the ball we were again too slow - Martial's great chance came more by great strength and skill by him and we only had a few other chances - when we did start to look like we might threaten Wenger changed it dropping Ramsey back....which more or less snuffed us out
couldn't understand the tactical setup as anyone who has saw Arsenal for the last 10 years know how you set up against them - seemed like he was trying to get Schweinsteiger to press beyond our strikers at times which was idiotic considering Arsenal's real strength is with Sanchez, Ramsey, Ozil and Cazorla and we left far too much room for them to enjoy
think that annoyed me the most though was Memphis.....lazy fecker barely helped Young out at all - when we needed a backs to the wall performance I felt he went missing - he showed no real conviction or bravery going forward either
we really missed the aggression we used to get from Rooney.....he used to bully that Arsenal side - he tried though which is more than what you can say for Memphis....
the main culprit has to be Van Gaal though....poor setup
I think the possession comment was made in a sarcastic tone...Thought Schneiderlin would have been a nailed on starter as the sort of player to disrupt Arsenal's pretty football.
All a bit shit today same as before the last International break. If the squad's knackered then maybe we shouldn't have let so many players go without replacing them.
All a bit shit today same as before the last International break. If the squad's knackered then maybe we shouldn't have let so many players go without replacing them.
Very disappointing to lose this game, because I'm convinced we could have gotten something from this game, if we had started we the right tactics and the right personel. It's especially disappointing because you can write the script for an Arsenal away game beforehand and you can outsmart Wenger every single time if you have the players to do it. (and we do!)
Arsenal was always likely to start guns blazing trying to overpower us when playing at home. If this is a given, then you adjust to it (like we used to do in the past) and soak the pressure by having a compact midfield and defence and then try to catch them on the break. We needed Schneiderlin in there to break up their play, because Schweinsteiger and Carrick were playing next to eachother and neither was breaking up the play and it ment there was a lot of space behind them which put the defence under pressure.
I my opinion it should have been one of Carrick or Schweinsteiger next to Schneiderlin in a compact midfield with little room for Arsenal's creative players to make moves. I was very concerned when I saw the line-up in midfield before the game. That midfield could potentially be fine when you're playing a smaller team that will park the bus, but not when you play a team like Arsenal away with creative players who will play through any midfield that doesn't offer enough protection.
If you keep the playing field small and don't give them space in the first 15-20 minutes, you can probably start taking over the control (read: possession) of the game and put them under pressure. That is if you haven't already taken advantage on the break in those first 20 minutes.
But none of that today. We started arrogantly with a wide-open midfield and Arsenal deservedly punished us for it and we lost the game in those first 20 minutes.
Darmian against Sanchez was also a bad idea, because Sanchez is too fast for him and he Darmian couldn't deal with that. Valencia is faster and would have been a better choice to cope with Sanchez. I admit I probably wouldn't have started with Valencia myself, but I would have subbed Darmian off (or put him on the left and sub Memphis off and move Young forward) before the first half was over, because he was clearly not going to cope with Sanchez. I don't know why he didn't do it sooner, because when you're 3-0 down after 20 mins and you can see clear problems like that, then you have to act immediately and not wait until the half-time. It could have potentially gotten worse than 3-0.
Memphis has been terrible really and hasn't done enough to merit a starting spot, so I'm glad he was taken off. Let him prove himself in sub appearances like anybody else.
In the end I think this game was a missed opportunity. With a different approach to the game, I'm confident we would have walked away with 1 or 3 points.
Arsenal was always likely to start guns blazing trying to overpower us when playing at home. If this is a given, then you adjust to it (like we used to do in the past) and soak the pressure by having a compact midfield and defence and then try to catch them on the break. We needed Schneiderlin in there to break up their play, because Schweinsteiger and Carrick were playing next to eachother and neither was breaking up the play and it ment there was a lot of space behind them which put the defence under pressure.
I my opinion it should have been one of Carrick or Schweinsteiger next to Schneiderlin in a compact midfield with little room for Arsenal's creative players to make moves. I was very concerned when I saw the line-up in midfield before the game. That midfield could potentially be fine when you're playing a smaller team that will park the bus, but not when you play a team like Arsenal away with creative players who will play through any midfield that doesn't offer enough protection.
If you keep the playing field small and don't give them space in the first 15-20 minutes, you can probably start taking over the control (read: possession) of the game and put them under pressure. That is if you haven't already taken advantage on the break in those first 20 minutes.
But none of that today. We started arrogantly with a wide-open midfield and Arsenal deservedly punished us for it and we lost the game in those first 20 minutes.
Darmian against Sanchez was also a bad idea, because Sanchez is too fast for him and he Darmian couldn't deal with that. Valencia is faster and would have been a better choice to cope with Sanchez. I admit I probably wouldn't have started with Valencia myself, but I would have subbed Darmian off (or put him on the left and sub Memphis off and move Young forward) before the first half was over, because he was clearly not going to cope with Sanchez. I don't know why he didn't do it sooner, because when you're 3-0 down after 20 mins and you can see clear problems like that, then you have to act immediately and not wait until the half-time. It could have potentially gotten worse than 3-0.
Memphis has been terrible really and hasn't done enough to merit a starting spot, so I'm glad he was taken off. Let him prove himself in sub appearances like anybody else.
In the end I think this game was a missed opportunity. With a different approach to the game, I'm confident we would have walked away with 1 or 3 points.
Martinez is equally dogmatic, however his squad has never been the match of the bigger clubs so you can't blame him for playing an attacking style every time
Mine were actually higher and I thought I was scoring them low.
He has beaten us for the last two years, and Lukaku is in the form of his life..I am afraid..very afraid..away from home, I am never confident against any team.
Every season there's a result like this, even under Ferguson. Ferguson's teams would regroup and fight back. Let's see what a Van Gaal side can do.
Perhaps, but they would have given rotation for others. Mata said after Wednesday they were knackered and feeling the effects. Being able to bring on someone for him once in a while or Martial would be nice. Also we knew we were short in defence so he sells one of our full backs and signs no centre back. I just think we are putting a lot of hope in players not getting injured or tired often
I would have taken draw happily but never expected us this bad. LVG got it wrong from the very beginning. Slow as feck and Young who is right footed winger on left back ? Carrick and BFS with a pace and accuracy of Arsenal so naive lineup
Arsene Wenger on Match of the Day: "We started strong and pressed very high.
"We did not give them any chances to score and that was vital. We surprised them with our start.
"From Petr Cech to Theo Walcott we only had superb performances. I have managed many strong teams and never had one that played 60 games at the same level. You have to accept that, we are human beings."
Funny thing is, we looked knackered but we get no leeway because it is UTD! Wenger will get away with those comments until the next loss, then what?
"We did not give them any chances to score and that was vital. We surprised them with our start.
"From Petr Cech to Theo Walcott we only had superb performances. I have managed many strong teams and never had one that played 60 games at the same level. You have to accept that, we are human beings."
Funny thing is, we looked knackered but we get no leeway because it is UTD! Wenger will get away with those comments until the next loss, then what?
And LVG was so overconfident too lol
Because they dropped off and didn't need to do anything
Nothing worse than knowing the game is over on 20 minutes, the only game I can really relate it to in my head was the Chelsea 5-0 during the Sutton days. It seemed a pointless affair before it had even started.
I don't think there is a point reading anything into the game after 20 minutes. Even if we dominated possession and played better it's exactly what you'd expect. Arsenal didn't need to keep pushing forward so we inevitably got more of the ball and eventually created chances. Blown away in the first 20 then the rest of the game was a formality, maybe if Martial had scored it could have been different but that was all.
We were 3-0 down though. Arsenal released their foot off the gas. Didn't close down. We should've done a lot better. Barely created a chance.
Cautious summed up our performance.
When they were inside forwards making runs off the ball or looking for the pass back to free up space: We didn't do that
When their were runs that needed to be made: We didn't do that
When we had clear shots at goal: We didn't take them
When we needed much more movement: we didn't do that
When they were inside forwards making runs off the ball or looking for the pass back to free up space: We didn't do that
When their were runs that needed to be made: We didn't do that
When we had clear shots at goal: We didn't take them
When we needed much more movement: we didn't do that
Come on, we can't keep a whole team in reserve. 2 or 3 new players today might have made a difference but you have to say Arsenal were in that kind of mood at home that would have beaten any team in the PL
Well done Gooners, bossed us in the first half. Our midfield is pants.
I got attacked by a lot of people leading up to the match for suggesting that Blind is not a proper CB and should be switched to LB, everyone called me crazy. I'm not gonna say that he was directly responsible for the first two goals, but he certainly played a major part in allowing both of them. Furthermore, as a result of insisting to use Blind in the center LVG then chose to put an attacking player at LB, which was just never going to work.
Memphis has been awful in the EPL and should not be starting. Rooney is past it and should not be starting.
Top of the table was nice for a week but it'll be a while before we see that again. Everton away is gonna be very tough, I can definitely see a draw there, and then Aguero, Silva and De Bruyne are gonna tear us a new one.
Memphis has been awful in the EPL and should not be starting. Rooney is past it and should not be starting.
Top of the table was nice for a week but it'll be a while before we see that again. Everton away is gonna be very tough, I can definitely see a draw there, and then Aguero, Silva and De Bruyne are gonna tear us a new one.
Fair enough.
I mentioned last week that people should wait until October is over before announcing us as champions. It isn't going to get easier.
We really need to move on...
There's two ways I think you can look at how the game has gone today.
We were outplayed early on, controlled the game for large periods (from what I saw which was about 20 minutes and then was reading) but always looked suspect.
Now that could be seen as a don't panic thing. We've done it pretty much all season so one game where the opposition were ruthless early on maybe isn't too bad?
But the other way of looking at it is that we've been getting away with it so far. And that next week and the week after against Everton and City we may not.
We were all over the place in the first half. Young was awful, Darmian struggled and why Schneiderlin was on the bench is just beyond me. But LVG didn't react until half time when the game was over. And then what was his reaction? The hoofball to Fellaini.
Jesus Christ that's where we are at and it's always good way. No tweak to the formation? And no dropping the passenger that is our captain?
LVG has made a career of making big big decisions that sometimes cause Fallings out. Well it's time he made one again and dropped Roooney. It's time!
We were outplayed early on, controlled the game for large periods (from what I saw which was about 20 minutes and then was reading) but always looked suspect.
Now that could be seen as a don't panic thing. We've done it pretty much all season so one game where the opposition were ruthless early on maybe isn't too bad?
But the other way of looking at it is that we've been getting away with it so far. And that next week and the week after against Everton and City we may not.
We were all over the place in the first half. Young was awful, Darmian struggled and why Schneiderlin was on the bench is just beyond me. But LVG didn't react until half time when the game was over. And then what was his reaction? The hoofball to Fellaini.
Jesus Christ that's where we are at and it's always good way. No tweak to the formation? And no dropping the passenger that is our captain?
LVG has made a career of making big big decisions that sometimes cause Fallings out. Well it's time he made one again and dropped Roooney. It's time!
Yeah, they sat back and we kept possession without looking particularly threatening. They were fantastic and we possibly got a schooling of a lifetime. Our problem is that we've got too many plodders in the team.
We are so one paced, it's unbelievable. The lack of urgency, desire etc. was pretty damn infuriating. I guess it's still a huge adjustment from the SAF United. If we're trailing, you could bet we'd be throwing the kitchen sink at them, trying to get something back, but that never arrived. It's all about possession & patience.
Plus side:
- it could have been much more than 3
- Martial had a good game
Negatives:
- too many to list
Plus side:
- it could have been much more than 3
- Martial had a good game
Negatives:
- too many to list
Arsenal were excellent no doubt. And obviously I'm not saying we keep an entire secondary squad, but where we are obviously lacking numbers don't sell till we have adequate cover. We sold players in positions we needed cover without people coming in, that's needlessly risky in a season where we should be playing more games
Am I the only one who saw some positives and improvements from Rooney in this game.
Negatives: Disjoint at the back, Darmian got schooled, slow tempo play got beaten up badly, Depay still play shite, lack of steel in first half, players react slowly/lack of urgency even when we were well behind, we are simply not as good as Arsenal
Plus: Martial is great, Rooney improved abit, Schweinsteiger keep trying hard from midfield, Wilson got some minutes from sub and looks promising, Fellaini is not bad
Negatives: Disjoint at the back, Darmian got schooled, slow tempo play got beaten up badly, Depay still play shite, lack of steel in first half, players react slowly/lack of urgency even when we were well behind, we are simply not as good as Arsenal
Plus: Martial is great, Rooney improved abit, Schweinsteiger keep trying hard from midfield, Wilson got some minutes from sub and looks promising, Fellaini is not bad
Well, if you call unsuccessfully trying to break down a team who's happy to sit back and hit you on the counter after going 3-0 up 'imposing ourselves', sure.
They almost scored two more on the counter, and we were passing it about with leisure. saying we improved in the second half is fine. But claiming to have 'imposed ourselves'? That's ridiculous.
And for the love of God, when can we stop playing with two freaking defensive minded midfielders in the middle of the pitch???
We really need to show we have.
Disgraceful performance. Just utterly appalling.
We really miss Shaw. Been so suspect back there since he's been injured...
Agreed, if I was an Arsenal fan I'd be celebrating that result but also asking how a team that played like that lost to Olympiakos mid-week.
Arsenal had something to prove. We were asleep.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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9%
Chris Smalling
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8%
Bastian Schweinsteiger
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3%
Wayne Rooney
-
3%
James Wilson
-
2%
Marouane Fellaini
-
1%
Juan Mata
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1%
David de Gea
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1%
Michael Carrick
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1%
Ashley Young
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 715 ratings.
Score Predictions
694,109,223
- Man Utd win
- Arsenal win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 32% Arsenal 1:2 Man Utd
- 13% Arsenal 1:1 Man Utd
- 12% Arsenal 1:3 Man Utd
- 8% Arsenal 0:2 Man Utd
- 7% Arsenal 2:2 Man Utd
- 6% Arsenal 2:1 Man Utd
- 5% Arsenal 0:1 Man Utd
- 4% Arsenal 0:3 Man Utd
- 3% Arsenal 2:3 Man Utd
- 2% Arsenal 0:0 Man Utd
- 2% Arsenal 2:0 Man Utd
- 1% Arsenal 1:4 Man Utd
- 1% Arsenal 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Arsenal 1:0 Man Utd
- 1% Arsenal 3:1 Man Utd
- 1% Arsenal 2:4 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 3:2 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 3:0 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 3:4 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 0:4 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 2:5 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 1:5 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 3:3 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 4:2 Man Utd
- 0% Arsenal 5:5 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Arsenal
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 38% 62%
- Shots
- 12 9
- Shots on Target
- 5 5
- Corners
- 3 6
- Fouls
- 8 17
Referee
Anthony Taylor
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Antonio Valencia
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replaced by Marouane Fellaini
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replaced by James Wilson
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