[Rash Decision]

This game followed a pattern of many many United games over the last number of years. Fall behind and heroic rescue. Of course this isn’t news.

If we try to understand why this pattern repeats then it cannot be simply explained away as coaching - as if the players are simply robots executing a predetermined game plan.

No - what I see is a lack of humility among SOME of the players. They look around the training ground and dressing room and recognise that they are a talented bunch. They walk out onto the pitch, thinking they are better and expecting to win. But talent alone is not enough. And only when they fall behind do talent and motivation combine.

The debate around technical coaching, Ole etc, only gives the players a chance to hide. This group of players have the ability to win EVERY match they play against ANY team - regardless of the coach.

As a collective they need to find the HUMILITY to truly commit. Find that and they will soar.

Sure. I guess coaches like Pep, Klopp etc. are pretty unnecessary since their players too are good enough to win EVERY match they play against ANY team regardless of coach. Including ours, who are also good enough to win every match against them.

Probably can say the same about some of SAF’s greatest teams.

Remind me why SAF is considered a legend again?

 

[largelyworried]

Great game. A classic.

As long as Ole keeps the team in the CL and stays within touching distance of top four in the Prem his job should be safe until January (at least).

Then he should try to sell off a few players in order to raise money for a CDM/DLP and back-up RB. Even if he can’t get his first choice CDM/DLP right now he should still try to sign someone that will improve the team and then possibly get a second one in further down the road.

He has signed three RW:s, so why not?

Im not sure I would say touching distance of top four is ok. If the 4th placed team is 9 points off the top and we're 3 points off them, that isnt acceptable. But if the top 4 is narrowly separated and we're just behind, then sure.

 

[Buster15]

Sure. I guess coaches like Pep, Klopp etc. are pretty unnecessary since their players too are good enough to win EVERY match they play against ANY team regardless of coach. Including ours, who are also good enough to win every match against them.

Probably can say the same about some of SAF’s greatest teams.

Remind me why SAF is considered a legend again?

If you really do need reminding, you are supporting the wrong team.

 

[Rash Decision]

If you really do need reminding, you are supporting the wrong team.

Way to go for missing the entire point of the post.

 

[Tomuś]

Very, very, very lucky. Can't fault the "heart", but with the amount of talents on the field and squad, they need to do much, much, much better. Ole has made some progress, improved the team and the whole club in general definitely, but for this team to progress further, a better manager is needed.

I'm an 'Ole out' guy but how on earth was that lucky?

 

[Dansk]

This team has had essentially the same problem since SAF retired. We've got a vastly better squad now than when Moyes took over, but the fundamental issues remain the same. I have no idea what's causing it, but surely it's clear by now that it can't be pinpointed on the manager or the squad.

It might be something deeply rooted in the club. Anyone who's ever had to deal with a toxic workplace environment knows that it's not necessarily the fault of any particular individual. Club spirit is a real thing that has a real impact on performances, and if the players and staff aren't enthusiastic about their work, that can affect the players. Other clubs like City have made a point of cultivating a positive club atmosphere.

The club only just recently started to pay its staff a living wage, for instance. Before then, they were paid a pathetic amount. That has to have an impact on the atmosphere at the club. It may not sound like it ought to matter much, but if the cafeteria staff and kit man and whatnot are just going through the motions without any enthusiasm, that can work its way into the mentalities of players. They're still human

Whatever the cause may be, I really think it's obvious by now that it's not just a matter of having happened to hire one incompetent manager after another. The players aren't really the issue, either; performances have fallen considerably below the proven potential of our players pretty much every season since SAF retired.

While the squad that Moyes inherited wasn't stellar, it had just won the league. It has steadily improved since then, and still they perform far below expected standards in something like half the games of every season. If something like that happens for a couple of years under one manager, it might be the manager's fault alone. For eight years under four different managers, two of whom were proven winners? No.

 

[noodlehair]

Don't get all this "second half proves the players are playing for the manager" rubbish.

They played for him in the first half. They played the ridiculous formation he wanted them to play, and they played it in the way he wanted them to, as BT Sport actually very clearly demonstrated in their post match analysis. It's just that it was complete shite.

What they played for in the second half was to not lose embarassingly at home to Atalanta and get booed off again by their own fans.

This game for Ole was just Jose's Newcastle game over again for me. When the team improves significantly when it stops following its manager's instructions and just goes for it, that's pretty damming.

 

[Beaucoup]

By the way the players are carrying on twitter you would have thought we had won the Champions League.

 

[roonster09]

By the way the players are carrying on twitter you would have thought we had won the Champions League.

Players posted something after coming back from 2-0 down to win 3-2? What a mediocre mentality cnuts.

 

[Garethw]

I was surprised at how poor Atalanta were. We were absolutely abysmal in the first half but it could still have been 2-2 at the break.

 

[Flytan]

By the way the players are carrying on twitter you would have thought we had won the Champions League.

It's kinda sad how they flock to social media after every defeat praising themselves/asking for belief/apologizing. Just play the games.

 

[mancan92]

Bruno made an impact all game with so many key passes, he may have set a record. Yes he played some poor balls as well but you need to see some of the creativity in all the assists and key setups. Ronaldo was put through but missed with a brilliant through ball. He put in Rashford incredibly for our first goal. "Completely off and came good in the end" is a bit much.

That was the fans reaction in the ground. Bruno was completely all over the place in the first half. Most people wanted him dragged out in the end I was at. He also is completely absent positionally.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

 

[tomaldinho1]

I was surprised at how poor Atalanta were. We were absolutely abysmal in the first half but it could still have been 2-2 at the break.

The caf slowly hypes everyone we play as the week goes on. Last season we had people saying how difficult Granada were... I don't think they'd beat a single PL team

 

[roonster09]

The caf slowly hypes everyone we play as the week goes on. Last season we had people saying how difficult Granada were... I don't think they'd beat a single PL team

Atalanta are not hyped team, they are very good team and had injury problems.

 

[Ixion]

Don't get all this "second half proves the players are playing for the manager" rubbish.

They played for him in the first half. They played the ridiculous formation he wanted them to play, and they played it in the way he wanted them to, as BT Sport actually very clearly demonstrated in their post match analysis. It's just that it was complete shite.

What they played for in the second half was to not lose embarassingly at home to Atalanta and get booed off again by their own fans.

This game for Ole was just Jose's Newcastle game over again for me. When the team improves significantly when it stops following its manager's instructions and just goes for it, that's pretty damming.

Yeah it's dumb line. You can point to similar comebacks for Moyes, Van Gaal, and Mourinho. Players have pride, they don't want to be boo'd by their own supporters at home, and Atalanta were there to be had without so many players, once the first one went in they were mentally fragile. I didn't see any players running over to the managers box after the goals went in, it's nothing to do with putting in some extra effort so Ole doesn't get the sack.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Atalanta are not hyped team, they are very good team and had injury problems.

They *were a very good team last season. This season they have loads of new players, injuries and have started poorly. We saw their level yesterday, it was average.

 

[roonster09]

They *were a very good team last season. This season they have loads of new players, injuries and have started poorly. We saw their level yesterday, it was average.

They missed around 5 of their first team players, it wasn't their best team. No, they are not average. IF teams are rated based on one game, then all teams are shit except PSG as they haven't lost this season.

 

[#07]

 

[tomaldinho1]

They missed around 5 of their first team players, it wasn't their best team. No, they are not average. IF teams are rated based on one game, then all teams are shit except PSG as they haven't lost this season.

Why is your bar simply unbeaten or not? PSG have lost FYI

They are 6th in a poor Serie A W4 D2 L2, concede over a goal a game and we literally saw how poor they were. Even first half they weren't exactly great were they.

I guess the counter argument is we are also average, which is kind of true at the moment

 

[roonster09]

Why is your bar simply unbeaten or not? PSG have lost FYI

They are 6th in a poor Serie A W4 D2 L2, concede over a goal a game and we literally saw how poor they were. Even first half they weren't exactly great were they.

I guess the counter argument is we are also average, which is kind of true at the moment

City have 5,3,1 record in the league. Does them make just a touch better than Atalanta?

They are very good team who had injury problems in this game and also had slow start to their season. They are very well drilled side.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Surely all but two or three teams that are in the Champions League meet a certain quality standard?

 

[tomaldinho1]

City have 5,3,1 record in the league. Does them make just a touch better than Atalanta?

They are very good team who had injury problems in this game and also had slow start to their season. They are very well drilled side.

Yep, City play in Serie A. Solid logic.

They could be well drilled and they will be better second leg with more time spent with the new signings and injuries back, it doesn't stop them being average now.

 

[roonster09]

Yep, City play in Serie A. Solid logic.

They could be well drilled and they will be better second leg with more time spent with the new signings and injuries back, it doesn't stop them being average now.

Ha, the mighty PL logic now.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Ha, the mighty PL logic now.

Serie A is an entertaining and attacking league these days but they need more money to close the gap

 

[redmanx]

This team has had essentially the same problem since SAF retired. We've got a vastly better squad now than when Moyes took over, but the fundamental issues remain the same. I have no idea what's causing it, but surely it's clear by now that it can't be pinpointed on the manager or the squad.

It might be something deeply rooted in the club. Anyone who's ever had to deal with a toxic workplace environment knows that it's not necessarily the fault of any particular individual. Club spirit is a real thing that has a real impact on performances, and if the players and staff aren't enthusiastic about their work, that can affect the players. Other clubs like City have made a point of cultivating a positive club atmosphere.

The club only just recently started to pay its staff a living wage, for instance. Before then, they were paid a pathetic amount. That has to have an impact on the atmosphere at the club. It may not sound like it ought to matter much, but if the cafeteria staff and kit man and whatnot are just going through the motions without any enthusiasm, that can work its way into the mentalities of players. They're still human

Whatever the cause may be, I really think it's obvious by now that it's not just a matter of having happened to hire one incompetent manager after another. The players aren't really the issue, either; performances have fallen considerably below the proven potential of our players pretty much every season since SAF retired.

While the squad that Moyes inherited wasn't stellar, it had just won the league. It has steadily improved since then, and still they perform far below expected standards in something like half the games of every season. If something like that happens for a couple of years under one manager, it might be the manager's fault alone. For eight years under four different managers, two of whom were proven winners? No.

Moyes brought about his own demize by sacking SAFs coaching team; Van Gaal thought he deserved a longer contract as opposed to being brought in to "steady the ship" and was trying to build for a future he didnt have. Mourinho was hired too late; if he had taken over from SAF he would have built on what was there and even though I expect he would still have imploded inside 4 seasons he would have won trophies Im sure, and who ever followed him would have had something to work with. The common denominator in all this is the board who, since David Gill retired as CE, seem to have forgotten how to run a football club, though they can still make money.

 

[Florida Man]

It's kinda sad how they flock to social media after every defeat praising themselves/asking for belief/apologizing. Just play the games.

Likely that they have social media teams doing that for them

 

[Still ill]

So wearing, that narrative. If we lose we're shit, if we win, they're shit. We all agree, we're in poor shape at the moment. For the love of God, though, you'd have to be dead inside not to enjoy that second half.

 

[Flytan]

Likely that they have social media teams doing that for them

I mean sometimes, yeah, but Bruno in that video yesterday was not his social media team.

 

[AltiUn]

Don't know the likelihood of it happening but if we beat Atalanta in the return leg, are we confident we're essentially through?

 

[caid]

It's kinda sad how they flock to social media after every defeat praising themselves/asking for belief/apologizing. Just play the games.

Why check their social media if them using it annoys you? If you dont want to hear their comments then dont look.

 

[Sandikan]

If any United fan found that second half remotely difficult to enjoy... they need to find a new hobby.

I haven't buzzed so much after a match in ages. Nothing beats a come back win.

It's like a lot of United fans have falsely remembered us as a team who always demolished everyone and never had to put in epic comebacks.

 

[Flytan]

Why check their social media if them using it annoys you? If you dont want to hear their comments then dont look.

I don't. It's just upvoted or posted on reddit or here. I'm not trying to find it. Also me not liking it isn't me saying they shouldn't do it, it's just cringy and describes the mentality of our team under ole

 

[Zeno]

Sure. I guess coaches like Pep, Klopp etc. are pretty unnecessary since their players too are good enough to win EVERY match they play against ANY team regardless of coach. Including ours, who are also good enough to win every match against them.

Probably can say the same about some of SAF’s greatest teams.

Remind me why SAF is considered a legend again?

Good question. And hopefully my answer will help illustrate my point.

Sir Alex was never a master tactician. He didn’t create or isn’t even associated with a particular style of football. But he was without doubt the greatest leader and motivator of men that ever managed a football team. It was like he got inside the head of every player and they played like they owed him their life. When that link with a player wasn’t there or was lost the player was moved on. He didn’t have this authority in his early years at United. There were established players at the club who felt like they owed him nothing - and played like it too. Only when he brought in his own players and ultimately brought kids through was his authority cemented.

Now clearly Ole does not have that authority now - we have a squad of superstars - more famous and important than Ole. And ultimately I don’t think he has the force of personality to impose himself even in time. And perhaps football has changed so that style would not work anymore. But that does not mean the players, properly motivated and focussed, could not win EVERY game - irrespective of tactics. (No team wins every game of course but the point is that they have the ability to win every game. They don’t need to fear any team. Honestly these players should not need a tactical coach to deliver on that promise.)

Regarding Klopp - I think his tactical straitjacket has helped a lesser (slightly) group of players overachieve. On Pep - I think his tactics have meant that a superior group of players have underachieved.

 

[BigRon1985]

Reminded me of the game against City at the Etihad in the 2017/18 season. Both times a completely different team came out for the second half! Much more confident for the game against the Enemy on Sunday - bring it on!

 

[caid]

I don't. It's just upvoted or posted on reddit or here. I'm not trying to find it. Also me not liking it isn't me saying they shouldn't do it, it's just cringy and describes the mentality of our team under ole

I just blank them. I kind of feel being cringy is the nature of the beast.

 

[Dansk]

I mean, it's not as if we were dreadful yesterday. We played Atalanta out of the park, but we couldn't finish our chances in the first half while they scored on the two they created, with both goals being a little bit fluky and unusual. We were by far the better team. It wasn't some kind of dreadful performance. Sometimes you just have one of those games where the finishing is a bit off while the other team makes the most of what they get. This was one of those nights. We were the slightly better team in the first half despite the scoreline, and we absolutely annihilated them in the second, dominating practically every moment. People talk as if the team played like shit and that's simply not the case. Fans have a tendency to look only at the score and interpret the actual course of play based on that alone. It's silly.

We were on top in every measurable statistic, too. Possession, chances, shots on target, etc. If you take that first half and turn back time to replay it again twenty times, we'd only be down 0-2 in one of them. The rest we're probably winning by one or two goals. By no means were we playing in such a way that being down by two was an accurate reflection of the performance. And then we tore them apart in the second half. Bruno created more chances last night than any other player has done thus far in the entire CL this season.

 

[RedfromIreland]

I mean, it's not as if we were dreadful yesterday. We played Atalanta out of the park, but we couldn't finish our chances in the first half while they scored on the two they created, with both goals being a little bit fluky and unusual. We were by far the better team. It wasn't some kind of dreadful performance. Sometimes you just have one of those games where the finishing is a bit off while the other team makes the most of what they get. This was one of those nights. We were the slightly better team in the first half despite the scoreline, and we absolutely annihilated them in the second, dominating practically every moment. People talk as if the team played like shit and that's simply not the case. Fans have a tendency to look only at the score and interpret the actual course of play based on that alone. It's silly.

We were on top in every measurable statistic, too. Possession, chances, shots on target, etc. If you take that first half and turn back time to replay it again twenty times, we'd only be down 0-2 in one of them. The rest we're probably winning by one or two goals. By no means were we playing in such a way that being down by two was an accurate reflection of the performance. And then we tore them apart in the second half. Bruno created more chances last night than any other player has done thus far in the entire CL this season.

Careful. You’re not allowed to talk sense on here.

 

[Hoof the ball]

This is a quality meme. If you know, you know....

 

[Martial]

I don't. It's just upvoted or posted on reddit or here. I'm not trying to find it. Also me not liking it isn't me saying they shouldn't do it, it's just cringy and describes the mentality of our team under ole

Literally every team does it after a loss or comeback win. City players do it too.

Weird post.