[devilish]

Truth is, we would now have been in the next round of Europa League, if Maguire never came on pitch. Thank God for Lindelof... and for Luke Shaw being a wonderful CB, in addition to top LB

I watched the Euro final on an Italian TV station. The reason being that I find commentators there to be far more knowledgeable in terms of tactics and far less biased (no former players/players mates) then their English counterparts. Anyway, the commentators literally said that Maguire is England's Achilles heel and that they should specifically target his lack of pace, his weakness in controlling/passing the ball and his lack of awareness. Targeting a defender's weakness is very common and it has two key advantages. First of all because such weakness would allow the striker to find himself face to face with the keeper. Secondly his team mates will be aware of his weakness and will try to cover for it which means that they can't fully focus on their job. That creates gaps that opponents will exploit.

Maguire's signing reveals many weaknesses. Its a weakness within our scouting/negotiating department who paid silly money for a player who should have never played for United but its also a weakness in how talent is being raised in the academy. Its shocking how a 30 year old EPL proven CB is only good to play in a deep line defence were he is surrounded by players around him doing almost everything for him (ie the thinking, the scanning and closing up gaps for him). We're not in the 80s anymore were inches and physical strength is enough for a CB to play at top clubs. It's a shame because more recently England had produced some of the finest CBs in the continent (Campbell, Rio, Terry etc). Its a shame that injuries were unkind with England as Ledley King and Wes Brown could easily be added to that mix.

Rio in particular is the perfect example of a modern CB. He was fast, he was strong, his control and technique was off the charts etc. Ok you can't expect any nation to keep producing players as good as Rio. However I am not referring to the quality here but more to the ideology. For England to revert back to players like Maguire is step backwards..

 

[Resch]

I watched the Euro final on an Italian TV station. The reason being that I find commentators there to be far more knowledgeable in terms of tactics and far less biased (no former players/players mates) then their English counterparts. Anyway, the commentators literally said that Maguire is England's Achilles heel and that they should specifically target his lack of pace, his weakness in controlling/passing the ball and his lack of awareness. Targeting a defender's weakness is very common and it has two key advantages. First of all because such weakness would allow the striker to find himself face to face with the keeper. Secondly his team mates will be aware of his weakness and will try to cover for it which means that they can't fully focus on their job. That creates gaps that opponents will exploit.

Maguire's signing reveals many weaknesses. Its a weakness within our scouting/negotiating department who paid silly money for a player who should have never played for United but its also a weakness in how talent is being raised in the academy. Its shocking how a 30 year old EPL proven CB is only good to play in a deep line defence were he is surrounded by players around him doing almost everything for him (ie the thinking, the scanning and closing up gaps for him). We're not in the 80s anymore were inches and physical strength is enough for a CB to play at top clubs. It's a shame because more recently England had produced some of the finest CBs in the continent (Campbell, Rio, Terry etc). Its a shame that injuries were unkind with England as Ledley King and Wes Brown could easily be added to that mix.

Rio in particular is the perfect example of a modern CB. He was fast, he was strong, his control and technique was off the charts etc. Ok you can't expect any nation to keep producing players as good as Rio. However I am not referring to the quality here but more to the ideology. For England to revert back to players like Maguire is step backwards..

Maguire is a confidence AND system-player. He needs a certain system, without much movement, sitting deep to perform on PL level. Combined with enough confidence, he is es good PL player (within the system). Now he has no confidence and should perform in a system, which highlights his weaknesses. And he tries compensate everything with brainless motivation, which leads to more errors, even fouling his teammates, while fighting für the ball.

 

[redmanx]

MENTALITY MONSTERS!!!

Feck you Danny Murphy you scouse cnut!!!

My thoughts exactly; he was so biased against us it was embarrassing, but the BBC as a whole has always favoured Liverpool over United, constantly waxing lyrical about their achievements and when Klopp won Liverpool their first, and so far only Prem title they made it out to be a bigger achievement than Fergies 13 titles!

 

[Mickeza]

First half I thought we were poor outside of the last 5 minutes. The press of 5 high and 5 deep really pissed me off as they repeatedly beat it - the cause of this for me was Eriksen who couldn’t get to Caicedo. It wasn’t a game for him yesterday - we wanted to press aggressively which he can’t do - and we had zero interest in playing in our own half which is his strength. If the game plan is going to be the same against City then I think Fred should start. I thought we played very well in the second half when Fred came on and our press was very good. It’s a great result - they’re a very good side and we played away 2.5 days ago so beating them after extra time shows real toughness.

The Fred effect:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Hammondo]

First half I thought we were poor outside of the last 5 minutes. The press of 5 high and 5 deep really pissed me off as they repeatedly beat it - the cause of this for me was Eriksen who couldn’t get to Caicedo. It wasn’t a game for him yesterday - we wanted to press aggressively which he can’t do - and we had zero interest in playing in our own half which is his strength. If the game plan is going to be the same against City then I think Fred should start. I thought we played very well in the second half when Fred came on and our press was very good. It’s a great result - they’re a very good side and we played away 2.5 days ago so beating them after extra time shows real toughness.

The Fred effect:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Agreed, I think overall they were the better team but failed badly with the chances they had. We did amazing with the pens.

 

[Crimson King]

I watched the Euro final on an Italian TV station. The reason being that I find commentators there to be far more knowledgeable in terms of tactics and far less biased (no former players/players mates) then their English counterparts. Anyway, the commentators literally said that Maguire is England's Achilles heel and that they should specifically target his lack of pace, his weakness in controlling/passing the ball and his lack of awareness. Targeting a defender's weakness is very common and it has two key advantages. First of all because such weakness would allow the striker to find himself face to face with the keeper. Secondly his team mates will be aware of his weakness and will try to cover for it which means that they can't fully focus on their job. That creates gaps that opponents will exploit.

Maguire's signing reveals many weaknesses. Its a weakness within our scouting/negotiating department who paid silly money for a player who should have never played for United but its also a weakness in how talent is being raised in the academy. Its shocking how a 30 year old EPL proven CB is only good to play in a deep line defence were he is surrounded by players around him doing almost everything for him (ie the thinking, the scanning and closing up gaps for him). We're not in the 80s anymore were inches and physical strength is enough for a CB to play at top clubs. It's a shame because more recently England had produced some of the finest CBs in the continent (Campbell, Rio, Terry etc). Its a shame that injuries were unkind with England as Ledley King and Wes Brown could easily be added to that mix.

Rio in particular is the perfect example of a modern CB. He was fast, he was strong, his control and technique was off the charts etc. Ok you can't expect any nation to keep producing players as good as Rio. However I am not referring to the quality here but more to the ideology. For England to revert back to players like Maguire is step backwards..

I remember feeling quite uneasy about the Maguire signing. Mostly because of the price, but I also just didn't rate him that much. He looked a good player, probably better than what we had, but we'd already signed guys like Bailly and Lindelof who had been disappointing. I wanted us to look for the next Rio or Vidic, and this guy just didn't look it to me.

In fairness, he was good for us in his first couple of seasons. However, in hindsight, that was obviously because he was a lot more comfortable in that system Ole used, where he was solely focused on making us a transition team. Now that we're trying to move beyond that with the new manager it has left him woefully exposed, as you've rightly pointed out.

It's a shame in some ways. Perhaps if we'd signed him for £30m he would be seen more kindly - did a job for a few seasons but time to move on. That price tag is always going to be there though, and we've basically already replaced him with Varane and Martinez.

It's also interesting how Lindelof has started to look like the better signing. He still has a lot of weaknesses that means he's not the ideal player for EtH's system, but he is quite good at reading the game and knowing when not to overcommit. It seems to help him play a high line better than Maguire can, despite his own lack of pace.

 

[sirAlexsglasses]

So throughout the game I was saying that all the decisions were going one way (including the obligatory yellow card for Casemiro in every game of course) and then his as this.

Brighton have committed 9 fouls, zero yellow cards.

Manchester United have committed 6 fouls, 2 yellow cards.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

First half I thought we were poor outside of the last 5 minutes. The press of 5 high and 5 deep really pissed me off as they repeatedly beat it - the cause of this for me was Eriksen who couldn’t get to Caicedo. It wasn’t a game for him yesterday - we wanted to press aggressively which he can’t do - and we had zero interest in playing in our own half which is his strength. If the game plan is going to be the same against City then I think Fred should start. I thought we played very well in the second half when Fred came on and our press was very good. It’s a great result - they’re a very good side and we played away 2.5 days ago so beating them after extra time shows real toughness.

The Fred effect:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

We also didn't get stuck in enough, or work hard enough. When the Utd players got frustrated with the ref, as we all did, they did start to do this. So I think we need to up the desire, get angry almost. Ferguson's teams always had that aggression. And Brighton had that more than us for large stretches yesterday.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

First half I thought we were poor outside of the last 5 minutes. The press of 5 high and 5 deep really pissed me off as they repeatedly beat it - the cause of this for me was Eriksen who couldn’t get to Caicedo. It wasn’t a game for him yesterday - we wanted to press aggressively which he can’t do - and we had zero interest in playing in our own half which is his strength. If the game plan is going to be the same against City then I think Fred should start. I thought we played very well in the second half when Fred came on and our press was very good. It’s a great result - they’re a very good side and we played away 2.5 days ago so beating them after extra time shows real toughness.

The Fred effect:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That’s a crazy stat. To me we’re just a much better team against tough opponents with Fred on the pitch. The Eriksen/Cas combo is lovely when we want to unlock weaker teams but it’s horrible when we’re going to get put under intense pressure (e.g. Sevilla away). I don’t really understand why ETH seems to have this blind spot but no doubt his massive bald brain has its reasons.

 

[Hackman2210]

Caciedo - plays like a young Keane / Kante hybrid, not sure how old he is - but we should be buying him this summer. 1st name on the transfer list for me. Unreal Engine.

 

[top1whoisman]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What's your point? If Varane and Martinez were fit and Rashford was fully functional, we would have probably got this in the 90.

People love focusing on the other sides one injury, rather than our multiple injuries and the fact we had a team out there which contained a number of players who were barely fit. Then you get referees who want to see us with even more injuries.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

My thoughts exactly; he was so biased against us it was embarrassing, but the BBC as a whole has always favoured Liverpool over United, constantly waxing lyrical about their achievements and when Klopp won Liverpool their first, and so far only Prem title they made it out to be a bigger achievement than Fergies 13 titles!

Think it has made a lot of folks minds up not to watch the final on the BBC.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Fair fecking play to him. To hit a pen like that takes some balls for a CB. Got to say, when he stepped up I wasn't confident. Cool as ice

 

[UpWithRivers]

That’s a crazy stat. To me we’re just a much better team against tough opponents with Fred on the pitch. The Eriksen/Cas combo is lovely when we want to unlock weaker teams but it’s horrible when we’re going to get put under intense pressure (e.g. Sevilla away). I don’t really understand why ETH seems to have this blind spot but no doubt his massive bald brain has its reasons.

This is what I dont get as well. Ten Haag is brilliant but when we get beaten its usually our midfield that crumbles. Eriksen/Bruno/Casemiro can be a brilliant midfield against certain opposition but when they pack the midfield with technical players then we are done. Plus we need them to be on form. Slightly off Casemiro and we are struggling. Sevilla figured it our by half time at Old Trafford and we never managed to tweak it tactically to counter. You could argue most of our hammerings were down to this. I guess thats why Ten Haag keeps trying things like Weghorst as a 10 and Bruno deep etc. But it only works sometimes.

 

[BusbyMalone]

To be honest, I just thought it was a really competitive game against a very good side. Both sides had spells where they were on top and could feel aggrieved that they didn't score. Bruno was great again, Antony was bright at times and I thought Lindelof was excellent. Martial wasn't great again for me. Get rid of him in the summer; the guy isn't it.

Rashford was also quite poor, I thought. Not sure if he isn't fit or what, but not a good game from him. And considering we had an out-of-form right back at left back, a left-back at CB, and our backup CB playing, we defended fine.

Just dispatch City with ease in the final and it's another trophy...

 

[DomesticTadpole]

To be honest, I just thought it was a really competitive game against a very good side. Both sides had spells where they were on top and could feel aggrieved that they didn't score. Bruno was great again, Antony was bright at times and I thought Lindelof was excellent. Martial wasn't great again for me. Get rid of him in the summer; the guy isn't it.

Rashford was also quite poor, I thought. Not sure if he isn't fit or what, but not a good game from him. And considering we had an out-of-form right back at left back, a left-back at CB, and our backup CB playing, we defended fine.

Just dispatch City with ease in the final and it's another trophy...

Don't think Martial or Rashford are fit. They are just trying to play through their injuries.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Don't think Martial or Rashford are fit. They are just trying to play through their injuries.

Yeah, I don't think Rashford is. As for Martial, it's hard to tell. Because he's like that when he's fit, to be fair.

 

[GueRed]

I wonder what the possession stats were? we conceded a lot of ball yesterday.

Noticeably in the second half, often sat deep looking to hit them on the counter.

 

[top1whoisman]

I wonder what the possession stats were? we conceded a lot of ball yesterday.

Noticeably in the second half, often sat deep looking to hit them on the counter.

61-39.

We started pressing them high in the second half of the second half but that faded away quite quick.

It was a bit hard to watch at times but Brighton have opened up so many quality teams when they’ve been running after the ball and drawn out of their shape.

And after conceding quite a lot of goals lately I can understand why we approached it like we did. We had chances to win in normal time, although so did they to be fair.

Anyway this was all about the result and in terms of defending compact as a team, I’m happy with the performance.

 

[davidmichael]

Yesterday was an example of why we NEED to upgrade on Eriksen as Casemiro’s midfield partner as Eriksen is too lightweight against some midfields, Caicedo showed yesterday as he has on a lot of occasions this season that he’s so much more than a destroyer in midfield and has a very good range of passing as well as being very press resistant so could be the perfect partner for Casemiro.

 

[GueRed]

61-39.

We started pressing them high in the second half of the second half but that faded away quite quick.

It was a bit hard to watch at times but Brighton have opened up so many quality teams when they’ve been running after the ball and drawn out of their shape.

And after conceding quite a lot of goals lately I can understand why we approached it like we did. We had chances to win in normal time, although so did they to be fair.

Anyway this was all about the result and in terms of defending compact as a team, I’m happy with the performance.

Cheers

Yeah I'm definitely happy with the result.

It's just an interesting observation.

I've noticed after every bad defeat this season the next game we've bounced back winning by ten Hag altering the playing style by going more pragmatic...deep defensive line, counter attacking football.....

 

[top1whoisman]

Cheers

Yeah I'm definitely happy with the result.

It's just an interesting observation.

I've noticed after every bad defeat this season the next game we've bounced back winning by ten Hag altering the playing style by going more pragmatic...deep defensive line, counter attacking football.....

You’re absolutely right. It’s a good sign that we’ve able to bounce back quickly and stopped the rot before it becomes a habit.

And as EtH said, the next step is to deal with the setbacks and bounce back within the game, not the next game.

I think this (bouncing back being solid at the back and perhaps a bit cautious) is a credit to the manager and the coaching staff.

 

[RadamelFalcon]

Just pointing out De Gea actually saved penalties against Steven Fletcher and Adam Johnson (!) in the league cup semi final in 2014 Vs Sunderland

 

[Crimson King]

This is what I dont get as well. Ten Haag is brilliant but when we get beaten its usually our midfield that crumbles. Eriksen/Bruno/Casemiro can be a brilliant midfield against certain opposition but when they pack the midfield with technical players then we are done. Plus we need them to be on form. Slightly off Casemiro and we are struggling. Sevilla figured it our by half time at Old Trafford and we never managed to tweak it tactically to counter. You could argue most of our hammerings were down to this. I guess thats why Ten Haag keeps trying things like Weghorst as a 10 and Bruno deep etc. But it only works sometimes.

We beat Liverpool and Arsenal at home with Eriksen (playing alongside McT, funnily enough) playing deeper. Fred started against Tottenham at home and City at home, but in the latter Eriksen also played and Bruno played on the right, to great effect.

I don't think it's a blind spot for Erik, I think that he believes we control games better with Eriksen, Casemiro and Bruno as the 3 in midfield. Controlling possession also means the fragile defence is less exposed. Plus, Fred doesn't offer much in the build up from deep, so that all gets left to Casemiro, who's better at this then Fred but still lacking. Against Sevilla, who have technical but aging midfielders, I think he was expecting those 3 to be able to dominate the ball. The early cock up completely undermined the rest of the performance though, Seville's confidence and energy shot through the roof and we never recovered.

Fred's greatest strength when defending is in the counter press, which is why he's actually more useful defending higher up the pitch and as far away from our goal as possible. I'm not entirely sure, but one of the reasons he's stopped playing him so much recently might be because we can't effectively press at the moment. We've shown we can do it at times this season, but we've played so many games now and I think the energy just isn't there for that anymore. Fred still can, but if it's just him (and Bruno) doing it then it's pointless. Also, we've lost Martinez which has crippled our play from the back, and he's trying to use Martial up top. Martial offers more goals and creativity (in theory) but doesn't press as consistently as Wout does.

 

[crossy1686]

Yesterday was an example of why we NEED to upgrade on Eriksen as Casemiro’s midfield partner as Eriksen is too lightweight against some midfields, Caicedo showed yesterday as he has on a lot of occasions this season that he’s so much more than a destroyer in midfield and has a very good range of passing as well as being very press resistant so could be the perfect partner for Casemiro.

To be fair to Eriksen, since his near death experience I think he’s just come back with the mindset of he’s going to enjoy football but he isn’t going to put himself on the line anymore, and I can respect that, but you’re right, we do need an upgrade which is why we chased De Jong for so long over the summer.

 

[UpWithRivers]

We beat Liverpool and Arsenal at home with Eriksen (playing alongside McT, funnily enough) playing deeper. Fred started against Tottenham at home and City at home, but in the latter Eriksen also played and Bruno played on the right, to great effect.

I don't think it's a blind spot for Erik, I think that he believes we control games better with Eriksen, Casemiro and Bruno as the 3 in midfield. Controlling possession also means the fragile defence is less exposed. Plus, Fred doesn't offer much in the build up from deep, so that all gets left to Casemiro, who's better at this then Fred but still lacking. Against Sevilla, who have technical but aging midfielders, I think he was expecting those 3 to be able to dominate the ball. The early cock up completely undermined the rest of the performance though, Seville's confidence and energy shot through the roof and we never recovered.

Fred's greatest strength when defending is in the counter press, which is why he's actually more useful defending higher up the pitch and as far away from our goal as possible. I'm not entirely sure, but one of the reasons he's stopped playing him so much recently might be because we can't effectively press at the moment. We've shown we can do it at times this season, but we've played so many games now and I think the energy just isn't there for that anymore. Fred still can, but if it's just him (and Bruno) doing it then it's pointless. Also, we've lost Martinez which has crippled our play from the back, and he's trying to use Martial up top. Martial offers more goals and creativity (in theory) but doesn't press as consistently as Wout does.

Sure we beat teams and sometimes they look like the new kroos-modric-casemiro. But notice most of those games were at home. The problem is that it doesn't work every game like Cities or Arsenal's. Home or Away against any team.

 

[Crimson King]

Sure we beat teams and sometimes they look like the new kroos-modric-casemiro. But notice most of those games were at home. The problem is that it doesn't work every game like Cities or Arsenal's. Home or Away against any team.

I'm not saying it works every time, I'm just saying I can see what he's trying to do.

In the away games he wants them to show more fight and character, which is normally the thing most lacking. I personally certainly think Fred should be used more, but then I'm not a manager trying to rebuild a team to be confident enough to play on the front foot, home AND away.

 

[sincher]

Fred is our most underused player.

 

[Trim90]

Still can't believe we won a penalty shootout. So happy that Weghorst kissed the ball and De Gea went to annoy March.
De Gea got into his head. He should do that more often. If you know you can't catch a penalty, at least try to get into the opponents head.

We looked tired but still had some chances. Brighton is a very good team AND they played almost 50% less games than us.

Glory Glory Manchester United!

If we want to beat City, we'll need to be on our AAA game and we'll need to be fully commited and fight for every inch of the field. Otherwise we cannot match them I'm afraid.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Fred is our most underused player.

False, Brandon Williams has been used a lot less.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

For a 0-0 I thought it was a decent match. Both sides played fairly well, Brighton started better but as the game went on we looked the more likely to score.

With penalties, it seemed certain that it was going to take a Brighton player to miss the target for any chance of winning, if they're needed again in the final then I think Heaton or Butland would have to come on. Penalty takers were excellent though.

 

[top1whoisman]

 

[Nobby style]

AWB's challenge on Hematoma in the 32nd minute was the stuff of legends. How he was able to sneak his foot in there with such perfect timing was really something to behold.

Except for the glaring fact that it ended up being a perfect pass to Enciso who easily should've put it in.

 

[Nobby style]

I watched the Euro final on an Italian TV station. The reason being that I find commentators there to be far more knowledgeable in terms of tactics and far less biased (no former players/players mates) then their English counterparts. Anyway, the commentators literally said that Maguire is England's Achilles heel and that they should specifically target his lack of pace, his weakness in controlling/passing the ball and his lack of awareness. Targeting a defender's weakness is very common and it has two key advantages. First of all because such weakness would allow the striker to find himself face to face with the keeper. Secondly his team mates will be aware of his weakness and will try to cover for it which means that they can't fully focus on their job. That creates gaps that opponents will exploit.

Maguire's signing reveals many weaknesses. Its a weakness within our scouting/negotiating department who paid silly money for a player who should have never played for United but its also a weakness in how talent is being raised in the academy. Its shocking how a 30 year old EPL proven CB is only good to play in a deep line defence were he is surrounded by players around him doing almost everything for him (ie the thinking, the scanning and closing up gaps for him). We're not in the 80s anymore were inches and physical strength is enough for a CB to play at top clubs. It's a shame because more recently England had produced some of the finest CBs in the continent (Campbell, Rio, Terry etc). Its a shame that injuries were unkind with England as Ledley King and Wes Brown could easily be added to that mix.

Rio in particular is the perfect example of a modern CB. He was fast, he was strong, his control and technique was off the charts etc. Ok you can't expect any nation to keep producing players as good as Rio. However I am not referring to the quality here but more to the ideology. For England to revert back to players like Maguire is step backwards..

Yeah, I'm always getting Argentine commentators and it's unbelievable how much more tactically astute and knowledgeable of the game they are and far more in depth, not to mention way more creative with the commentary, great senses of humor, more interesting and an infectious enthusiasm and sense of drama. They like a good dose of gossip as well. Really a shame for those who only get British understatement and embarrassing American pap.

 

[Member 125288]

Wish my missus looked at me the way Malacia looks at Rashers at 3:15!

 

[Tincanalley]

Still can't believe we won a penalty shootout. So happy that Weghorst kissed the ball and De Gea went to annoy March.
De Gea got into his head. He should do that more often. If you know you can't catch a penalty, at least try to get into the opponents head.

We looked tired but still had some chances. Brighton is a very good team AND they played almost 50% less games than us.

Glory Glory Manchester United!

If we want to beat City, we'll need to be on our AAA game and we'll need to be fully commited and fight for every inch of the field. Otherwise we cannot match them I'm afraid.

We need luck too, not least in the injury department

 

[Red Dreams]

They would rather have Brighton than us. Now let's hope the Gooners pick themselves up and get something.

Liverpool would have done the Treble 22 years before us.
But we beat them in 1977. You must remember that.

We will beat City on June 3rd.

 

[Moriarty]

Liverpool would have done the Treble 22 years before us.
But we beat them in 1977. You must remember that.

We will beat City on June 3rd.

Remember it? I was there. I think you were too if memory serves. I agree. We will beat City but I think Real with do them as well.

 

[Red Dreams]

Remember it? I was there. I think you were too if memory serves. I agree. We will beat City but I think Real with do them as well.

Yes. I was there.
Too pissed to remember how I got to where I was in the morning.