[ravelston]

Our most used passing combinations in this game was in order:

Herrera to Mcnair
McNair to Herrera
McNair to Di Maria
Evans to Rojo
Rojo to Evans
Rooney to Evans
Rooney to Smalling
De Gea to Evans
Evans to Di Maria
Rojo to di Maria

Our 11 most used passing combinations involved at least one defender.

I'm not clear if you think this a good thing, a bad thing, or just a interesting factoid. Given the nature of Burnley's pressing game, would you have expected anything different? For me the interesting thing is that Smalling to Evans doesn't feature on the list - indicative of a great deal of common sense on Smalling's part.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Herrera only came on at about the 40 minute mark.

You'd still expect one of the top 10 combinations to be between the two CMs though surely?

Defender should be passing it to the CM or winger in one move then after that, possession should interchange 3-4 times between CM and wingers. That should weight the passes to the middle and forward thirds, but clearly the majority of our build up took place in the defensive third. Which is obvious when you watch the matches but is still uncomfortable reading.

Passing the ball back and forth between defence and midfield invites pressure and Burnley were more than happy to oblige

 

[ravelston]

I still think everything comes down to him not trusting the defence. Whether his set up to therefore protect it is correct is a talking point, but the reason we aren't releasing the rest of the team to attack is down to that.

And, to be honest, I can't argue with him. To pick an incident which had me utterly gobsmacked, there was a point early in the second half where a Burnley player was attacking the edge of the area, holding the ball. Two United defenders closed him down, and were shepherding him away to the (our) left. Suddenly, from his position as RCB, Smalling comes galloping into the picture to try to tackle someone who already had two United players on him - leaving another Burnley player completely unmarked just to the right of our penalty spot. If the one on the ball had a clue, the easiest pass in the world would have split our defence because none of them seem to have the faintest idea where they should even be standing in the first place, never mind how to them defend.

That example is Smalling, but they're all at it, game after game. That defence means that you can't afford to have your midfielders in attacking positions, and you can't afford to play high risk passes, because the moment you lose the ball, your opponent can make our entire back line shit themselves and fall over with one aimless ball over the top.

I would like to think that with a trustworthy defence, LVG would be playing the systems and football we all want to see.

And yet, for all this disaster, over the last 17 games (a period in which we've played all our major rivals) we're tied with Southampton for the fewest goals conceded in the PL, and behind only Chelsea for the number of points picked up. Weird, huh? Could we possibly be doing something right?

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Ings made mincemeat of Smalling 1st half but Chris gets a 10 mark for scoring twice.

Funny old game

It was a brilliant cross (beckhamesque) and the diving header very Yorke. Sometimes you can't stop good play.

I was more concerned about the mix up with Herrera at start of the second half which nearly led to an equalizer.

By the way I didn't vote Smalling MOTM.

I find it strange the when United use to deploy pressing tactics to stop the likes of Real, Arsenal & Co, it is deemed good by us (them bottling it), but when others do it to us, it is because we are crap. Funny Old game.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Our most used passing combinations in this game was in order:

Herrera to Mcnair
McNair to Herrera
McNair to Di Maria
Evans to Rojo
Rojo to Evans
Rooney to Evans
Rooney to Smalling
De Gea to Evans
Evans to Di Maria
Rojo to di Maria

Our 11 most used passing combinations involved at least one defender.

Surprised Blind didn't feature in that list. I thought he was the outlet from most defenders and was constantly giving the ball to Rooney, Di Maria and Adnan.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Credit must be given to Burnley, they pressed us in the first half like a pack of wild dogs, we couldn't handle their pressing. In the second half, they couldn't keep up their energy levels and we took full advantage. @Dante you do know Di Maria and Januzaj are wingers primarily! Rojo at left back was forced or who would you have played there? It's fine to complain but we do have a habit of exaggerating simple things at times.

I refuse to give credit to teams that only turn up when they play Manchester United. If Burnley turned up every week maybe they wouldn't be heading for the Championship.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I do wonder why we aren't promoting Pereira to more 1st team games if LVG doesn't want ADM as a midfielder due to his passing, Pereira is a very good mover of the ball with good retention.

On a side note, how can one deem Di Maria's passing as not good enough for midfield, but Rooney's is?

 

[SalfordRed1960]

I refuse to give credit to teams that only turn up when they play Manchester United. If Burnley turned up every week maybe they wouldn't be heading for the Championship.

Stigma from last year. Very few teams came to old trafford and attacked when we had Fergie. It was almost always counter attack or park the bus. When Moyes destroyed the fear factor more and more teams saw that actually if you attack United you may have a chance. Result we lost a significant number of games at OT last year. This year, we have been better, only losing 2 to date and having a lot more wins. We still haven't captured the fear factor as we are not attacking as much. So I don't think it is a case of Burnley, or anyone esle, only turning up for United. It is a case of United's attitude to the game is different, more cautious. Become for attack focused, get some goals on board and the fear factor will come back.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Rooney's passing borders on atrocious.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Stigma from last year. Very few teams came to old trafford and attacked when we had Fergie. It was almost always counter attack or park the bus. When Moyes destroyed the fear factor more and more teams saw that actually if you attack United you may have a chance. Result we lost a significant number of games at OT last year. This year, we have been better, only losing 2 to date and having a lot more wins. We still haven't captured the fear factor as we are not attacking as much. So I don't think it is a case of Burnley, or anyone esle, only turning up for United. It is a case of United's attitude to the game is different, more cautious. Become for attack focused, get some goals on board and the fear factor will come back.

You make a good point but I think our status still acts as a great motivator for a lot of lesser teams. Of course, my own aggravation likely stems from the success we enjoyed courtesy of that fear factor.

 

[Crackers]

I'm not clear if you think this a good thing, a bad thing, or just a interesting factoid. Given the nature of Burnley's pressing game, would you have expected anything different? For me the interesting thing is that Smalling to Evans doesn't feature on the list - indicative of a great deal of common sense on Smalling's part.

"Rooney 40 yards away, with 2 marking him. Evans right beside me near the touchline, with no one marking him. No way am I passing it to Evans" - Smallings thoughts for parts of the game.

 

[ravelston]

We played the second half with 4 centrebacks, 4 number 10's and 2 strikers on the pitch. That says everything. There was no cohesion whatsoever.

I didn't count any #10's - saw two wingers a #8 and three #9's. Were we watching the same game?

 

[sunama]

Surprised Blind didn't feature in that list. I thought he was the outlet from most defenders and was constantly giving the ball to Rooney, Di Maria and Adnan.

Blind got injured in the first half, so his pass count would've been low.
Had he finished the game, then he would certainly have figured near the top of that list.

 

[sunama]

If Burnley turned up every week maybe they wouldn't be heading for the Championship.

You have to think to yourself, that if Burnley was so good (as we saw yesterday), why are they 2nd from bottom? It doesnt make any logical sense.
The only think I can think of is that they raised their game against us yesterday, and yesterday's performance was an anomaly.

 

[Cassidy]

You have to think to yourself, that if Burnley was so good (as we saw yesterday), why are they 2nd from bottom? It doesnt make any logical sense.
The only think I can think of is that they raised their game against us yesterday, and yesterday's performance was an anomaly.

They've played some decent football this season, but so have many other teams. Its a competitve league tbh and they like many go through spells of good and bad form. Teams usually with more quality on the pitch will end up being higher up the table.
Look at Arsenal vs Liecster they played well but lost, Arsenal just in the end had more quality to finish off their chances, thats the way it is.

Had Burnley beaten us yesterday they would be 15th and had they held their 2 goal lead they had vs West Brom at the weekend they would be higher.

The margins are small in football, thats why the teams with the higher quality players tend to do better.

 

[ravelston]

It's the bizzare team selections thats annoying people more than anything.

Got to admit I didn't see anything particularly bizarre (unless you think the 4-4-2 diamond is bizarre). I don't necessarily agree with LvG's view on the necessity of having a left-footed LCB - particularly if it involves Evans (who isn't even left-footed) getting on the field - but, given his view, there wasn't much alternative there. Shaw's suspension was damaging, otherwise Rojo and Shaw on the left would have been fine. Giving Januzaj and McNair outings against "lower level" opposition is necessary if we want them to develop, so I don't see a problem there. Blind at the base of the diamond is a given with Carrick's absence (and probably without it). I suppose AdM could have been sat to let Januzaj play, but playing him at the point of the diamond was not unreasonable. With Januzaj and AdM playing, the right side of the diamond becomes a problem - playing Herrera or Mata would leave Blind totally exposed and Fellaini seems to be falling back down the pecking order. Which leaves Rooney - perhaps not ideal, but given the decision to play both AdM and Januzaj it's a pretty obvious pick. With Rooney needed elsewhere, RvP and Falcao are a no-brainer up front - Wilson is very willing but, at this point in his career, offers little else.

Perhaps we could have played a 4-3-3, but my sense is that the team hasn't got there yet in terms of understanding the mechanics. I'm sure we will get there eventually - possibly quite soon - but it's not going to happen until LvG is confident that they know what they're doing.

Obviously the nightmare yesterday was the two early injuries. Without them we would have had a lot of opportunities for adjustment; with them we were pretty much stuck. Rooney at DM was strange but inevitable and shifting to the 4-4-2 with wingers made a lot of sense. I would have preferred to go to a 4-2-3-1 with Mata on for one of the strikers but that would have required using the remaining substitute early which can easily come back to bite you. All in all - a lousy performance (mostly as a result of Shaw's suspension, I suspect) but nothing bizarre.

 

[Siorac]

I still think everything comes down to him not trusting the defence. Whether his set up to therefore protect it is correct is a talking point, but the reason we aren't releasing the rest of the team to attack is down to that.

And, to be honest, I can't argue with him. To pick an incident which had me utterly gobsmacked, there was a point early in the second half where a Burnley player was attacking the edge of the area, holding the ball. Two United defenders closed him down, and were shepherding him away to the (our) left. Suddenly, from his position as RCB, Smalling comes galloping into the picture to try to tackle someone who already had two United players on him - leaving another Burnley player completely unmarked just to the right of our penalty spot. If the one on the ball had a clue, the easiest pass in the world would have split our defence because none of them seem to have the faintest idea where they should even be standing in the first place, never mind how to them defend.

That example is Smalling, but they're all at it, game after game. That defence means that you can't afford to have your midfielders in attacking positions, and you can't afford to play high risk passes, because the moment you lose the ball, your opponent can make our entire back line shit themselves and fall over with one aimless ball over the top.

I would like to think that with a trustworthy defence, LVG would be playing the systems and football we all want to see.

That's all well and good but doesn't explain why he keeps using attackers in midfield. Not trusting the defence doesn't explain Rooney's continued presence in CM.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

I am very suprised to see that Smalling got man of the match, i know that he scored twice so it's somewhat understandable but Paddy mcnair for me was the only player to come out of the first half with any credibility.

With that said, the first half was awful last night, really bad. we were fortunate to not only go in 2-1 up but to not be behind. We were better in the second but we are giving far too many balls away, there is no great urgency to attack, we were bullied off of the ball too easily and our defence were all over the place. things need to improve and I think that they will in time, it just doesn't offer us any pleasant viewing at the moment.

Played badly and came away with 3 points though so that's a massive bonus.

 

[Blodssvik]

I'm not clear if you think this a good thing, a bad thing, or just a interesting factoid. Given the nature of Burnley's pressing game, would you have expected anything different? For me the interesting thing is that Smalling to Evans doesn't feature on the list - indicative of a great deal of common sense on Smalling's part.

I thought it was interesting that our defenders are so influential in our game despite not being known to have the best distribution. It has been quite typical for the last few games too. We don't move the ball around a lot in midfield and this doesn't come as a surprise I guess.

 

[TwoSheds]

Did people really think Di Maria played well? Worst player on the pitch first half, I expect a lot more.

 

[BazzaBear]

And yet, for all this disaster, over the last 17 games (a period in which we've played all our major rivals) we're tied with Southampton for the fewest goals conceded in the PL, and behind only Chelsea for the number of points picked up. Weird, huh? Could we possibly be doing something right?

I don't know if you feel you're disagreeing with me by saying this, but actually it matches up perfectly with what I think. Our lack of conceding is because of De Gea, and because of the very limiting tactical decisions which LVG has made. I can't see that they're due to our actual defence, because you see them make massive screw-ups multiple times every game. It's a tactical necessity to play in a way which ruins our attacking game in order to be solid. Whether it has to ruin our attacking game this much is arguable mind. And it's not the excuse for why our front line are being so useless when we do get the ball to them.

 

[Ish]

is that 18 games unbeaten?

I think 1 in 18 lost iirc. Soton at OT was surely very recently?

 

[RedSky]

Here is my issue. I want top 4 and CL next year... Absolutely crave that. So I agree results are paramount, however...

My concern right now is how embarassing CL would be for as we look right now. I watched Burnley... *Burnley*... for Heaven's sake, boss us around Old Trafford for the first 45 mins last night. There is no way we are going to save a shred of dignity against any of Europe's elite how we are playing right now. How do you think the likes of Bacelona will feel about seeing Evans and Smalling in the back line with Rooney as DM... do you think they could stop laughing long enough to score 10 is the only over and under I can envision.

Am I off here?

I think/hope that we'll change our style a little bit as long as we're in the CL. My feeling is that LvG has probably been given the objective of sealing CL football and he's decided the best way to achieve that (With the players we have) is to play defensive football knowing that we'll still create chances but limit the opposition. Make us hard to beat is the key and tbf he's done that.

I'm hoping therefore once we're in the CL the shackles will loosen a bit and we'll see better football next Season.

 

[Smores]

Got to admit I didn't see anything particularly bizarre (unless you think the 4-4-2 diamond is bizarre). I don't necessarily agree with LvG's view on the necessity of having a left-footed LCB - particularly if it involves Evans (who isn't even left-footed) getting on the field - but, given his view, there wasn't much alternative there. Shaw's suspension was damaging, otherwise Rojo and Shaw on the left would have been fine. Giving Januzaj and McNair outings against "lower level" opposition is necessary if we want them to develop, so I don't see a problem there. Blind at the base of the diamond is a given with Carrick's absence (and probably without it). I suppose AdM could have been sat to let Januzaj play, but playing him at the point of the diamond was not unreasonable. With Januzaj and AdM playing, the right side of the diamond becomes a problem - playing Herrera or Mata would leave Blind totally exposed and Fellaini seems to be falling back down the pecking order. Which leaves Rooney - perhaps not ideal, but given the decision to play both AdM and Januzaj it's a pretty obvious pick. With Rooney needed elsewhere, RvP and Falcao are a no-brainer up front - Wilson is very willing but, at this point in his career, offers little else.

Perhaps we could have played a 4-3-3, but my sense is that the team hasn't got there yet in terms of understanding the mechanics. I'm sure we will get there eventually - possibly quite soon - but it's not going to happen until LvG is confident that they know what they're doing.

Obviously the nightmare yesterday was the two early injuries. Without them we would have had a lot of opportunities for adjustment; with them we were pretty much stuck. Rooney at DM was strange but inevitable and shifting to the 4-4-2 with wingers made a lot of sense. I would have preferred to go to a 4-2-3-1 with Mata on for one of the strikers but that would have required using the remaining substitute early which can easily come back to bite you. All in all - a lousy performance (mostly as a result of Shaw's suspension, I suspect) but nothing bizarre.

You seem to have discounted a lot of those selections as bizarre based on the sole fact they're just LvGs beliefs??

That post is just backwards rationalisation of LvGs choices into reasonable decisions.

Herrera would leave Blind exposed but Rooney wouldn't? LvG couldn't choose Fellaini because he's slipped down the pecking order? By the same logic of form over system shouldn't Smalling have started over Evans?

You've also discounted the choice of front two based on Rooney already being chosen in midfield. I'd hope that isn't how LvG picks a team but it would explain a lot

 

[ScarleyUtd]

It was a brilliant cross (beckhamesque) and the diving header very Yorke. Sometimes you can't stop good play.

Yes it was a good cross, but he lost his man, simple as that.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Yes it was a good cross, but he lost his man, simple as that.

But isn't that good play by them. We would be creaming ourselves if that had been Falcao.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

But isn't that good play by them. We would be creaming ourselves if that had been Falcao.

It's good play by them but also poor defending by us. Had he been tighter and kept with his man chances are they wouldn't have scored.

That is what Smalling needed to do to prevent the goal. There was only one attacker in the box.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

I think 1 in 18 lost iirc. Soton at OT was surely very recently?

Yes it was January

 

[mu77]

Did people really think Di Maria played well? Worst player on the pitch first half, I expect a lot more.

hit the di maria thread , people thought he was the dogs bollocks. 45 mins of football , well not really even that.

 

[ScarleyUtd]

hit the di maria thread , people thought he was the dogs bollocks. 45 mins of football , well not really even that.

He seemed a changed player after getting the pen (or maybe it was when he set up Smalling). Perhaps it is a confidence thing.