[VP89]

Since 2015? I assume you're talking about when his Chelsea team were losing to pretty much everybody? I'll forgive him last season as our team was so disjointed i'm willing to see it as part of the process. And yeah, we should start to expect more but we should see how the other games pan out this season before burying him under this amount of shit.

That one game under LvG is the only time in my entire life where I can't remember it being a smash and grab. So that's the anomaly, not what happened at the weekend, that's just generally how these games play out. Also, pretty much every time we've lost to Liverpool at OT has been a smash and grab too, there was even a game under Benitez where we lost 0-4 and that useless LB Dossena scored, that was still more of a smash and grab rather than a domination.

Last season at home to City they blitzed us in the first half, true, but in the 2nd we took the initiative to the point where Guardiola took off a striker for another midfielder shortly after HT to try and hold on to the victory, and in the end we probably deserved at least a draw. So even the great Pep is capable of digging in for a result...

Under LVG we saw much of the ball and played with greater conviction...yeah sure, except we were also shit that season and it was one of the most boring periods to watch United play in our history. The beginning to this season has been far more entertaining, we've actually scored goals!

Mourinho will have to show a bit more ambition in away matches to our main rivals, but this early on in the season when you don't know how vital that point will be over risking it for 3 and getting beat...he did the right thing.

If at the end of the season we draw or lose every away game to last season's top 6 and look dire every game then I will be worried, but right now I have more reasons to be optimistic than not. I wish other people could see that too and try and enjoy our football club again while we rightly can.

I'm not going to turn this into a LVG vs Mourinho thread, but no one can deny LVG proved far better big game pedigree with a similar or less quality team compared to Mourinho in the same amount of of time.

When you have 5 points out of what, 24 against the big sides away, the approach is quite evidently wrong. There can't be an extenuating reason each time like "oh Chelsea were losing anyway then" or "José wasn't ready last season" etc.

Other managers tend to grow a pair and take the game to the opponents with a better points tally in the big 6 showdown. Chelsea, Liverpool City and Spurs included. Why we always go and cower before taking pride in a point (if that) is beyond me. The points taken home don't justify it.

 

[Crimson King]

I'm not going to turn this into a LVG vs Mourinho thread, but no one can deny LVG proved far better big game pedigree with a similar or less quality team compared to Mourinho in the same amount of of time.

When you have 5 points out of what, 24 against the big sides away, the approach is quite evidently wrong. There can't be an extenuating reason each time like "oh Chelsea were losing anyway then" or "José wasn't ready last season" etc.

Other managers tend to grow a pair and take the game to the opponents with a better points tally in the big 6 showdown. Chelsea, Liverpool City and Spurs included. Why we always go and cower before taking pride in a point (if that) is beyond me. The points taken home don't justify it.

I'm just trying to make that point that better teams than this one have gone for the point. Perhaps the difference was we only used to have 1, maybe 2 main rivals per season for top spot, now there's arguably 5...that's a lot of teams to play it safe against, no doubt.

It used to vary season to season under SAF, some years we'd beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle at one point, but rarely in a comfortable manner. Some seasons we'd have an awful record against these teams, but not miss a beat against the fodder of the league and end up champions.

This isn't a phenomena of Mourinho's reign, it's always been there. At the weekend there was nothing particularly wrong with the game plan, he wanted them to stay organised and counter against what is seen as a weak defense.

Should we have been more aggressive from the off? Maybe, maybe if Pogba or Fellaini had been available, or he could have kept Bailly and Jones in defence together, we would have done that. In the end though he was let down by poor performances more than anything, chiefly Mkhi and Lukaku, Martial was left isolated which you could blame on Mourinho's instructions to Darmian.

Should he have changed things up when that plan didn't look like baring fruit? Maybe, I agree that would have been my preferred course of action, but I also don't think it was a bad result in the end.

 

[Zebs]

I'm only coming to this now and it's probably been said, but it's obvious that Mourinho set up to play exactly as we did against Ajax in the Europa League final. Play it long to nullify their high press and then put their back four who are weaker in possession under pressure.

It worked for a short while but didn't look as effective as it did against Ajax because 1) Liverpool are a better team than that Ajax team and 2) We didn't take our chance to score when it arised. We didn't score, and instead we tired late on.

The lack of a second tall player (Pogba/Fellaini) to challenge for the long balls meant the tactic was pretty ineffective and should have been changed, but we didn't have the right players to change the game at the time.

It was the correct approach, it just didn't work on Saturday. Another day and we'd be hailing another lesson in nullifying your opponent, like we did when Mourinho explained his tactics against Ajax.

Anyway, we came away with a draw, which we'd have been happy with at the start of the season. 20 points from 24 with points dropped away to Stoke and Liverpool is pretty much exactly how most people would have viewed as the best-case/most-likely scenario from our first eight games.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[poleglass red]

I'm just trying to make that point that better teams than this one have gone for the point. Perhaps the difference was we only used to have 1, maybe 2 main rivals per season for top spot, now there's arguably 5...that's a lot of teams to play it safe against, no doubt.

It used to vary season to season under SAF, some years we'd beat Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle at one point, but rarely in a comfortable manner. Some seasons we'd have an awful record against these teams, but not miss a beat against the fodder of the league and end up champions.

This isn't a phenomena of Mourinho's reign, it's always been there. At the weekend there was nothing particularly wrong with the game plan, he wanted them to stay organised and counter against what is seen as a weak defense.

Should we have been more aggressive from the off? Maybe, maybe if Pogba or Fellaini had been available, or he could have kept Bailly and Jones in defence together, we would have done that. In the end though he was let down by poor performances more than anything, chiefly Mkhi and Lukaku, Martial was left isolated which you could blame on Mourinho's instructions to Darmian.

Should he have changed things up when that plan didn't look like baring fruit? Maybe, I agree that would have been my preferred course of action, but I also don't think it was a bad result in the end.

That's the viewpoint expressed by Carragher in his article and there is a lot of truth in it. My only issue is, I don't see Liverpool as a rival to win the PL, in fact I don't even see them top 4 this season. I could maybe understand this game plan away to Man City, or even one of the big guns in the CL. But to essentially set up for a draw from the off against Liverpool was disappointing. I think there needs to be more of a play to win mentality against these teams. This is a Liverpool team missing their best player, with a dodgy backline. We can only assume if he adopts this mentality against Liverpool, will he do it against Spurs, Arsenal, City and Chelsea away. If he does we won't win the title this season, as I guarantee City won't go to these grounds looking to squeeze out a draw.

 

[Sassy Colin]

People getting so butt hurt about how we played in one game

Obviously you haven't seen us play all the previous games then?

Until the weekend, we had scored only 1 less goal than the mighty Shitty.

Like I said, Jose did it on purpose to piss off Klopp and give him something else to moan about incessantly.

 

[ravelston]

That's the viewpoint expressed by Carragher in his article and there is a lot of truth in it. My only issue is, I don't see Liverpool as a rival to win the PL, in fact I don't even see them top 4 this season. I could maybe understand this game plan away to Man City, or even one of the big guns in the CL. But to essentially set up for a draw from the off against Liverpool was disappointing. I think there needs to be more of a play to win mentality against these teams. This is a Liverpool team missing their best player, with a dodgy backline. We can only assume if he adopts this mentality against Liverpool, will he do it against Spurs, Arsenal, City and Chelsea away. If he does we won't win the title this season, as I guarantee City won't go to these grounds looking to squeeze out a draw.

How would you have set the team up?

 

[Drz]

People getting so butt hurt about how we played in one game

Obviously you haven't seen us play all the previous games then?

Until the weekend, we had scored only 1 less goal than the mighty Shitty.

Like I said, Jose did it on purpose to piss off Klopp and give him something else to moan about incessantly.

He did the same to Moyes as well when he returned to England, it helped heap pressure on the latter, fooled him enough to think he did rather well in that fixture rather than Chelsea willfully backing-off...

Whilst I'm happy to give opposition managers food for thought, I don't like it when my team sets out to not play football, I consider it a waste of my time. I don't like playing for a draw, particularly in a league, and in this case it isn't even about setting up defensively, which we did with SAF, quite often even in his last years, but when we won the ball-back we played football not some devaluated form of kick and rush.
It isn't about the result as much as it is about the mindset, particularly when you have the players to match the opposition.

 

[Vanrouge]

This feeling exactly. I was just so pumped for the game and then there was that.

They need to spare a thought for us Left Coasters!

 

[Klopper76]

Here’s the tunnel cam from the game if anyone is interested.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

....as I guarantee City won't go to these grounds looking to squeeze out a draw.

Good. Because it will eventually cost them.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

After watching Spurs grab a point away to Real working very hard I appreciated our performance more. We basically played with slippers, whilst smoking cigars at Anfield and left a tough away game with a point...or maybe I'm just weird