[Buster15]

the equalizer was a calamity of errors. Most of the match the defense did their job comfortably, Liverpool really never threatened despite all their possession (remember we played like that a couple of managers back). But I was shocked in final 15 mins how unable we were to keep possession. Anytime they lost the ball, they had it back within 10 seconds. We could not keep possession from our own throw-ins. OK, if we want to defend and let them come at us, do it properly. Glad we got a draw but frustrated that this performance in the later second-half is considered ok...it was not. A win would not have changed the fact that we could not even get the ball, never mind keep it, at home.

The reason for that was because Klopp changed to a 442 formation while United only had 3 in midfield; 2 if you ignore Fred which was the case.
Anyone with any tactical sense would have reacted.
We were over run and had little possesion and the fullbacks dropped back allowing Robertson and Alexander Arnold to get the crosses in.
That is the reason why we were pegged back.
Bad tactical thinking.

 

[The Brown Bull]

An improvement but still disappointing. An opportunity lost as Liverpool were shite on the day and there for the taking.
We badly need a center forward who can hold the ball in attack and bring others into the play.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The reason for that was because Klopp changed to a 442 formation while United only had 3 in midfield; 2 if you ignore Fred which was the case.
Anyone with any tactical sense would have reacted.
We were over run and had little possesion and the fullbacks dropped back allowing Robertson and Alexander Arnold to get the crosses in.
That is the reason why we were pegged back.
Bad tactical thinking.

Not sure I agree here. Watch any game between two half decent teams and if one team has a narrow lead in the last 10 minutes, they usually end up sitting back. Its a completely normal part of the game and its not because of a tactical decision by the many managers of those teams, it seems to be human behaviour in that situation. Given the slender lead, our poor run and the general nervousness about facing a Liverpool team who were on a 17 match winning run, I doubt any formation would have us controlling the ball with authority in that situation.

 

[mattunited1978]

Some fans are deluded. You wanted Utd, with all their injuries, crap form, and players who are not good enough to even make the bench, to out play the European Champions and the most inform team in Europe for 90 mins. ?

Who said anything about outplaying them? We were pretty comfortable, still offering a threat going forward, not looking like conceding. Then for no reason atall, we dropped deep, conceded possesion and any little threat we had went with it, then they accepted our invite to get there passing together, camped around our box, and as predictable as anything, we conceded.. just like we did against Wolves and southampton. If you cant see that, its more a case of you not having a clue than me being deluded.

 

[Dec9003]

Who said anything about outplaying them? We were pretty comfortable, still offering a threat going forward, not looking like conceding. Then for no reason atall, we dropped deep, conceded possesion and any little threat we had went with it, then they accepted our invite to get there passing together, camped around our box, and as predictable as anything, we conceded.. just like we did against Wolves and southampton. If you cant see that, its more a case of you not having a clue than me being deluded.

The players were fatigued, AWB could barely move towards the end.
It's a completely different situation to us conceding against Wolves and Southampton I'd say though.
We were never pinned back like that against either side, those goals were probably worse ones to concede as far as performance is concerned.

 

[Buster15]

Not sure I agree here. Watch any game between two half decent teams and if one team has a narrow lead in the last 10 minutes, they usually end up sitting back. Its a completely normal part of the game and its not because of a tactical decision by the many managers of those teams, it seems to be human behaviour in that situation. Given the slender lead, our poor run and the general nervousness about facing a Liverpool team who were on a 17 match winning run, I doubt any formation would have us controlling the ball with authority in that situation.

I believe that United has a poor record of not converting 1-0 leads to wins.
From what I saw, it was a very clear problem of being over run. Klopp brought on Chamberlain and Lallana. What was Ole response. Why did he not try to strengthen the midfield.
He only ever seems to do a one for one substitutions. And that is a serious problem.

 

[mattunited1978]

The players were fatigued, AWB could barely move towards the end.
It's a completely different situation to us conceding against Wolves and Southampton I'd say though.
We were never pinned back like that against either side, those goals were probably worse ones to concede as far as performance is concerned.

Thats because liverpool are a better team than those other 2, better teams are always going to pin you back more once you invite them on. The principals exactly the same, we invite teams back into games, theres a clear pattern and it costs us regularly.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

Bit disappointed not to hold on for the win but we were the better side for 75 minutes, much better performance and well done to Ole for changing the tactics, can see 343 being used a lot more hopefully give some added protection with McTominay and Pogba in the middle.

A lot of positives, thought it was Pereira's best game in a United shirt, absolutely ran his socks off.

McTominay just gets better and better he was superb yesterday.

James played very well, looks so dangerous on the break, Martial back, Pogba close to a return, Rashford scoring from open play, happy days.

Hopefully we can get a bit of a run going now and get back up towards that top 6 and go from there.

 

[lysglimt]

Bit disappointed not to hold on for the win but we were the better side for 75 minutes, much better performance and well done to Ole for changing the tactics, can see 343 being used a lot more hopefully give some added protection with McTominay and Pogba in the middle.

A lot of positives, thought it was Pereira's best game in a United shirt, absolutely ran his socks off.

McTominay just gets better and better he was superb yesterday.

James played very well, looks so dangerous on the break, Martial back, Pogba close to a return, Rashford scoring from open play, happy days.

Hopefully we can get a bit of a run going now and get back up towards that top 6 and go from there.

Really impressed by James - both for his work on the pitch, but also for always getting up after being flattened by someone.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

Really impressed by James - both for his work on the pitch, but also for always getting up after being flattened by someone.

Yeah I did worry when he got taken out hard by Fabinho I think it was, that would have knocked me out cold haha

 

[OhGee]

Disappointed- had Tuanzebe not gotten injured before the start I would got 11/11. Had the scousers not scored in the last few minutes it would have been a clean sweep...overall if Ole continues to play Pereira more centrally and keep Mata and Matic away then we will improve

 

[robinamicrowave]

Thought you were really effective in the first half and got the goal you deserved. For the first time in ages you actually looked like you had a plan going forward, mainly because the only thing you had to do was sit tight, feed it through the middle, and then find Rashford or James and run in a straight line towards goal. It was simple but hey, it worked.

Think the idea after half-time was to contain Liverpool but you anticipated an onslaught that never really arrived. When it came time to seize the initiative again and nab a second you were far too deep as a team, and when Klopp changed to 4-4-2 with Lallana and Oxlade as advanced playmakers your team didn't have the energy left to see it out.

A better performance than you've mustered recently - and pretty impressive considering your injuries - but still nothing to suggest you're gonna be good enough to finish in the top 6 without a change of system, change of manager, and a whole host of new signings in January who all click instantly at the same time.

 

[TRUERED89]

An improvement but still disappointing. An opportunity lost as Liverpool were shite on the day and there for the taking.
We badly need a center forward who can hold the ball in attack and bring others into the play.

The one moment Martial got the ball, that's exactly what he did. Very glad to see him back on the pitch!

 

[Dec9003]

Thats because liverpool are a better team than those other 2, better teams are always going to pin you back more once you invite them on. The principals exactly the same, we invite teams back into games, theres a clear pattern and it costs us regularly.

It isn't that we were inviting Liverpool on any more than we had been the rest of the match though. The players were knackered after having to press Liverpool all afternoon to be able to take the lead.
Plus it's not just up to us to invite Liverpool back in, they upped their pressure towards the end since they were chasing a goal. It isn't uncommon for any team with a slender lead to be pushed further back towards the end.
We do seem to struggle to hold onto a lead, and sometimes we do invite a bit too much pressure, but the situation was completely different than it was against Wolves and Southampton, imo.

 

[StrettyEnder07]

Thought you were really effective in the first half and got the goal you deserved. For the first time in ages you actually looked like you had a plan going forward, mainly because the only thing you had to do was sit tight, feed it through the middle, and then find Rashford or James and run in a straight line towards goal. It was simple but hey, it worked.

Think the idea after half-time was to contain Liverpool but you anticipated an onslaught that never really arrived. When it came time to seize the initiative again and nab a second you were far too deep as a team, and when Klopp changed to 4-4-2 with Lallana and Oxlade as advanced playmakers your team didn't have the energy left to see it out.

A better performance than you've mustered recently - and pretty impressive considering your injuries - but still nothing to suggest you're gonna be good enough to finish in the top 6 without a change of system, change of manager, and a whole host of new signings in January who all click instantly at the same time.

Was quite impressed with that until the last paragraph haha only joking, yeah agree with you on that mate, was nice to actually see us put a shift in for once and get stuck in.

Hopefully now the penny has dropped regarding the 4231 system and the fact that it just does not suit the players we have, wing backs maybe until January and then see what signings we can make (not to optimistic as January is normally a nightmare to buy players but we shall see).

 

[Roux]

The reason for that was because Klopp changed to a 442 formation while United only had 3 in midfield; 2 if you ignore Fred which was the case.
Anyone with any tactical sense would have reacted.
We were over run and had little possesion and the fullbacks dropped back allowing Robertson and Alexander Arnold to get the crosses in.
That is the reason why we were pegged back.
Bad tactical thinking.

I disagree with this - i think with a bit more experience and composure from Fred, Pereira and in particular McTominay we could have seen out the game much better regardless of what Liverpool did. McTominay has a good game, but just needs to slow things down at the right time, he tends to panic and force the ball forward when we are under pressure.

 

[TRUERED89]

Not sure I agree here. Watch any game between two half decent teams and if one team has a narrow lead in the last 10 minutes, they usually end up sitting back. Its a completely normal part of the game and its not because of a tactical decision by the many managers of those teams, it seems to be human behaviour in that situation. Given the slender lead, our poor run and the general nervousness about facing a Liverpool team who were on a 17 match winning run, I doubt any formation would have us controlling the ball with authority in that situation.

Whilst I mostly agree, he should of stuck with the split strikers (James & Rashford). He switched to Rashford alone in the second half, and our authority and initiative just disappeared

 

[Canagel]

The one moment Martial got the ball, that's exactly what he did. Very glad to see him back on the pitch!

Sometimes I wonder if people actually watched our football when he was fit. He was doing all of that , set up two penalties and two assists in the 3 matches just from holding up play.

 

[mattunited1978]

It isn't that we were inviting Liverpool on any more than we had been the rest of the match though. The players were knackered after having to press Liverpool all afternoon to be able to take the lead.
Plus it's not just up to us to invite Liverpool back in, they upped their pressure towards the end since they were chasing a goal. It isn't uncommon for any team with a slender lead to be pushed further back towards the end.
We do seem to struggle to hold onto a lead, and sometimes we do invite a bit too much pressure, but the situation was completely different than it was against Wolves and Southampton, imo.

Its also not uncommon for teams who are leading to go on and score more, continue doing what got them there lead or at least hit teams on the counter...wouldnt either one of them be nice. We'l have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Dec9003]

Its also not uncommon for teams who are leading to go on and score more, continue doing what got them there lead or at least hit teams on the counter...wouldnt either one of them be nice. We'l have to agree to disagree on this one.

Of course it would, and I think against Wolves and Southampton we should have got another goal. it would've been asking a bit much yesterday though all things considered.

 

[Buster15]

I disagree with this - i think with a bit more experience and composure from Fred, Pereira and in particular McTominay we could have seen out the game much better regardless of what Liverpool did. McTominay has a good game, but just needs to slow things down at the right time, he tends to panic and force the ball forward when we are under pressure.

Perhaps you should listen to Ole post match debrief.
He very clearly said that the reason we lost possesion and tired was because Liverpool changed tactics.
Well if he was aware of this why didn't he react....

 

[TRUERED89]

Sometimes I wonder if people actually watched our football when he was fit. He was doing all of that , set up two penalties and two assists in the 3 matches just from holding up play.

He'll be absolutely pivotal now, I'm glad the coaches didn't rush him back. If we can get a long injury-free run from him now, he'll be the difference maker! He's literally our best player no debate.

 

[Bestietom]

I believe that United has a poor record of not converting 1-0 leads to wins.
From what I saw, it was a very clear problem of being over run. Klopp brought on Chamberlain and Lallana. What was Ole response. Why did he not try to strengthen the midfield.
He only ever seems to do a one for one substitutions. And that is a serious problem.

Thought he would have brought on Garner. The bench was very Thin as regards experience.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Thought you were really effective in the first half and got the goal you deserved. For the first time in ages you actually looked like you had a plan going forward, mainly because the only thing you had to do was sit tight, feed it through the middle, and then find Rashford or James and run in a straight line towards goal. It was simple but hey, it worked.

Think the idea after half-time was to contain Liverpool but you anticipated an onslaught that never really arrived. When it came time to seize the initiative again and nab a second you were far too deep as a team, and when Klopp changed to 4-4-2 with Lallana and Oxlade as advanced playmakers your team didn't have the energy left to see it out.

A better performance than you've mustered recently - and pretty impressive considering your injuries - but still nothing to suggest you're gonna be good enough to finish in the top 6 without a change of system, change of manager, and a whole host of new signings in January who all click instantly at the same time.

Agree with most of this.
Have to disagree with the last paragraph. If we were to play like in the first 60 minutes I would see a chance to get top 6. Not sure how many of the other teams will be able to nullify Liverpool.

 

[Bestietom]

Perhaps you should listen to Ole post match debrief.
He very clearly said that the reason we lost possesion and tired was because Liverpool changed tactics.
Well if he was aware of this why didn't he react....

Most Probably because he had no one on the bench that he could improve the situation with. Garner an 18 year old was the only midfielder we had. Tuanzebe getting injured upset the plan from the start. He most likely would have been pushed into midfield with Rojo coming on. but it wasn't to be. We need reinforcements in midfield and attack.

 

[ExecutionerWasp001]

Would have took a draw beforehand. Looking back on it now it's disappointing. We'd actually be 3rd if we hadn't given up so many points from winning positions. If we can be as resolute in defence as we were yesterday there won't be many times we concede. We really need to get the first teamers fit & on the pitch at the same time for a good spell of games & we'll be fine for top 6.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Annoying with the draw, but a good performance. Need to focus on europa league more now since I doubt we will get top 4.

 

[CR1]

I’m late to the party as I watched the game on the replay.

Disappointing that we couldn’t hold on to the win but as I’m sure others have said already, I would have taken that result beforehand. Good that we changed the formation for this match, 4-2-3-1 hadn’t been working previously. Very good first half, second half was expected given we were playing against the most in-form team in the world and had so many injuries. MOTM is a toss-up between Rashford, James and Pereira. But pretty much everyone played well I thought. Young was very good up until the mistake I thought.

Lee Dixon said, interestingly, that Rashford would get 40 goals a season if he was playing with Scholes, Giggs and Beckham. I don’t think he’s far wrong, I definitely think he would get 20-30. And goals aside, Rashford brings a lot of other things to the table. Five years ago, was Firmino a better players than Rashford is today? I doubt it, yet now he’s an integral part of a CL-winning side.

As for Ole, this match never had any bearing either way on his status as the manager. Hopefully we can build on this in the upcoming games, we’ll see. I’m still Ole In, as like I’ve said, I simply don’t see finishing 5th or 6th as worth yet another managerial change. I think the main focus now has to be the next transfer window because surely everyone can agree that we need more signings irrespective of who the manager is.

IMO if we stay clear of the relegation zone Ole is the best option to oversee that window, rather than bringing in someone else with different opinions on who to sign etc. There’s been a lot of chopping and changing already , we need to continue this rebuild properly and then make an assessment further on.

– Pukki or Wilson
– Håland
– McGinn
– DLP/CDM

Those signings would completely transform this team. I’m telling you all. And we would move up the table PLUS have a go at the Europa League. We can agree to disagree on Ole as the manager, but IMO we should all agree that new signings has to be a major focus. Yes four signings in January would be more or less unprecedented but we have had consecutive transfer windows where we should have signed the double amount of players that we did sign.

Håland plus Pukki or Wilson would effectively be the replacements for Lukaku and Sánchez. So not unreasonable at all IMO. Yes we have Greenwood too but he’s not yet ready for much more than cup games and substitute appearances.

Hopefully against Norwich we’ll see attack attack attack. The tactics Ole deployed when he first came in. If he can get back to that and get the backing he needs in terms of more transfers then I can totally see him turning things around.

 

[robinamicrowave]

Agree with most of this.
Have to disagree with the last paragraph. If we were to play like in the first 60 minutes I would see a chance to get top 6. Not sure how many of the other teams will be able to nullify Liverpool.

But that's what I mean really, I don't think you will play like that again for a while. Teams will still come to Old Trafford and sit deep because they know you don't have the ideas or the creativity to win games, and you really do hate it when teams do that. And eventually, like Liverpool in the second half yesterday, and like Palace earlier this season and so many others before them in the last year or so, they know they'll get at least two or three big chances and bury one of them. That's just at OT as well.

On the road you can forget about it. If you come up against a team who fancy a battle or a scrap your players mentally check out and look devoid of ideas. The one big positive of this past week or so is that Rashford looks confident and fit again, and it looks like he's developing some kind of relationship with Danny James (who also looks good), but pinning it all on them is a high risk strategy that won't bear enough fruit. James' form on the road has been patchy and it will be for a while because he's a kid.

 

[Buster15]

Thought he would have brought on Garner. The bench was very Thin as regards experience.

Yes it was. But we desperately needed some fresh legs, even from Jones who had played there before. Someone to disrupt their passing and possesion.

 

[Buster15]

I’m late to the party as I watched the game on the replay.

Disappointing that we couldn’t hold on to the win but as I’m sure others have said already, I would have taken that result beforehand. Good that we changed the formation for this match, 4-2-3-1 hadn’t been working previously. Very good first half, second half was expected given we were playing against the most in-form team in the world and had so many injuries. MOTM is a toss-up between Rashford, James and Pereira. But pretty much everyone played well I thought. Young was very good up until the mistake I thought.

Lee Dixon said, interestingly, that Rashford would get 40 goals a season if he was playing with Scholes, Giggs and Beckham. I don’t think he’s far wrong, I definitely think he would get 20-30. And goals aside, Rashford brings a lot of other things to the table. Five years ago, was Firmino a better players than Rashford is today? I doubt it, yet now he’s an integral part of a CL-winning side.

As for Ole, this match never had any bearing either way on his status as the manager. Hopefully we can build on this in the upcoming games, we’ll see. I’m still Ole In, as like I’ve said, I simply don’t see finishing 5th or 6th as worth yet another managerial change. I think the main focus now has to be the next transfer window because surely everyone can agree that we need more signings irrespective of who the manager is.

IMO if we stay clear of the relegation zone Ole is the best option to oversee that window, rather than bringing in someone else with different opinions on who to sign etc. There’s been a lot of chopping and changing already , we need to continue this rebuild properly and then make an assessment further on.

– Pukki or Wilson
– Håland
– McGinn
– DLP/CDM

Those signings would completely transform this team. I’m telling you all. And we would move up the table PLUS have a go at the Europa League. We can agree to disagree on Ole as the manager, but IMO we should all agree that new signings has to be a major focus. Yes four signings in January would be more or less unprecedented but we have had consecutive transfer windows where we should have signed the double amount of players that we did sign.

Håland plus Pukki or Wilson would effectively be the replacements for Lukaku and Sánchez. So not unreasonable at all IMO. Yes we have Greenwood too but he’s not yet ready for much more than cup games and substitute appearances.

Hopefully against Norwich we’ll see attack attack attack. The tactics Ole deployed when he first came in. If he can get back to that and get the backing he needs in terms of more transfers then I can totally see him turning things around.

I like the optimism in your last paragraph. However, one swallow not making a summer and all that. We will find out over the next set of matches.
The two fundamental concerns I have are - Ole very limited tactical awareness and the awful stand of coaching.

I watched the warm up yesterday and there was little clear structure.
All Rashford seemed to do was have a few shots.
And there were Lindelof Maguire and Rojo practicing headers.
Maybe I missed the rest but that is the type of thing you see in parks football.

 

[elánius]

I think we deserved that point and thats something most of us would not predict before the game. Liverpool didnt play at their standard and missing Salah is huge problem for them (like Pogba absence is for us), but we can build anything on it. Liverpool dominated on the ball and that fits Ole style of play, but those matches happen 5-6 in a season.

 

[fps]

May already have been posted, but Darren Fletcher's tactical points here seem relevant, especially how this formation gave Rashford freedom to move wide, indeed instruction to do so - that really activated his best performance in a long while.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50119352

 

[Roux]

Perhaps you should listen to Ole post match debrief.
He very clearly said that the reason we lost possesion and tired was because Liverpool changed tactics.
Well if he was aware of this why didn't he react....

I don't really care what Ole said.. i'm giving my opinion and not his.

 

[Eric's Seagull]

Would have taken a point before the game. Although feels like 2 points lost. Decent performance considering injuries.

 

[yamo123x]

All those saying superb performance, hang on a bit.
10/10 for effort and desire, huge improvement on the newcastle debacle.
3/10 for football.

We had no control over the game, couldnt keep the ball, and hoofed it most of 2nd half, we just defended and give the lads credit for this.
It kind of felt like a cup game with the minnows raising their game to beat the big boys...sorry to say it as it is.

 

[Siorac]

I'm still not convinced that Pool are a better side than City despite their much better start. They'd do well to be ahead still come May.

They probably aren't but it's very hard to win three in a row, from a mental perspective. It's harder to rise to the challenge over and over again; player motivation might dwindle somewhat after so much success. Witness our 2000/01 or 2008/09 season - neither was remotely as good as the two that had preceded them.

 

[Buster15]

I don't really care what Ole said.. i'm giving my opinion and not his.

And you are perfectly entitled to do that.

 

[roonster09]

https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/dkzgoh/average_positioning_against_liverpool_first_vs/

Story of ManUtd since SAF retired.

 

[Buster15]

All those saying superb performance, hang on a bit.
10/10 for effort and desire, huge improvement on the newcastle debacle.
3/10 for football.

We had no control over the game, couldnt keep the ball, and hoofed it most of 2nd half, we just defended and give the lads credit for this.
It kind of felt like a cup game with the minnows raising their game to beat the big boys...sorry to say it as it is.

You have no need to be sorry. I for one agree, particularly later in the second half.