[Maticmaker]

When you are 'put to the sword' on your own pitch its bad, when its done by your biggest rivals its terrible, when nobody at your club on or off the pitch seems to have a clue, its a nightmare!!

Questions
1/Why do we continue to try to play out from the back when we clearly don't know how to, or even how to simply 'pass and move', and we therefore allow the opposition to take up positions right up to our 18 yard box, so one mistake from us and they are in on goal?

Talk about "allowing them to put their tanks on our lawn". Klopp must have been having wet dreams over this!

2/ If our 'strength' is our front players, our four attacking experts (so called), why not try to get the ball up to them directly if all else fails then from goal kicks, at least if we lose or fail to gain the first (and/or ) second ball, its in their half and they have to cover 50 odd yards or so to present a goal threat, chance for us to recover?

Its not elegant football admitted, but it might be more effective given our inability to use our heads!

3/ Why do our midfielders (in particular) regularly get caught on the ball directly or on the turn, could it be their 'in possession' default movements are so well known to the opposition, they can move to take the ball without having to think?

Football is a simple game, but we make it extremely difficult... for ourselves!

 

[swooshboy]

Right so there's a lot to rant about so I'll just pick the bits that actually were so astoundingly bad they surprised me in spite of fully expectinbg us to get absolutely shat on.


Maguire on the first goal - Why does he push up but then stand 10 yards away from the person he pushed up against? This left Shaw with no clue what to do. I don't know what Lindelof was doing either, or Bissaka, but at least they were attracted to the ball. Maguire was attracted to literally nothing. What on earth was he doing?

Maguire on the second goal - Why did he not just clear it? And why, after being so unbelievably slow that he missed it entirely, did he then run into Shaw and stop him from clearing it? This goal simply doesn't happen if Maguire is not on the pitch. This is one of several examples in the game that demonstrated why we would actually have been better starting the game with 10 men rather than joking our other players into thinking they could rely on Maguire to do his job.

Maguire on the third goal - When you watch it back on the replay, the ball hits Maguire, and then everyone reacts, except for Maguire, who doesn't react, even though it was literally him the ball hit. About a whole second later, he finally reacts. During this time Salah who is stood a good 3 metres behind him, runs past him to the position HE should be in, and scores. I have never seen a player as off the pace as this.

Maguire on the fourth goal - What is he doing? Why does he run over and then just let the player on the ball walk away from him? THis caused a goal to happen. Did someone pay him to make sure it was 4-0 at half time? Because honestly on all four goals what he was doing was simply unfecking believable in terms of the level of incompetence.

Maguire on the fifth goal - I mean, this one you can blame on Pogba or even Shaw, both of whom's contributions were, well, Maguire like...but Maguire should have just cut out the ball. It literally gets curled round him and if he'd actually been paying attention he could have just easily cut it out.

Maguire - Now this was a shiter all round performance, but what MAguire has done here is manage to be so bad that he pretty much single handedly guaranteed a humiliation. You can't have someone play like this and not get thrashed. It happened last week and it happened this week again. He stood out like a sore thumb in spite of the whole team being terrible. This was literally the most inept performance I've seen from a "professional" footballer, apart from, possibly, that time Gerrard came on and immediately got sent off for stamping on someone...but even that was a one off moment of twattery rather than a 90 minute encyclopedia of it.

Starting Maguire - Why, after the last two games, is Maguire still getting picked today? He is not fit. Firstly, I would say it isn't his fault, but why is he not fit? Not match fit I can understand, but he is SO off the pace he is simply not fit in the professional athlete sense. He is paid hundreds of thousands a week not to turn up and perform like someone who exercises less than I do. Yet he cannot, over 2 months into the season, even do that. More to the point, WHY is this not being picked up by the management? He was clearly not fit on Wednesday and it cost us 2 goals. He was clearly not fit the week before and it cost us 3, arguably 4 goals. Is this just pure jokes from Ole at this point? why are you picking someone who you know there is a good chance will cost you 4 goals in a game? Get to feck. This is a sackable offnce on its own because it is SO incompetent it is beyond belief. No one can tell me they watched Maguire against Leicester and Atalanta and thought "yeah, he's in a fit state to play against Liverpool" The only reason I wasn't utterly shocked he was playing is because Ole is our manager. One of our players could literally spend the game cartwheeling round the touchline in a clown suit and he still wouldn't notice they were doing anything wrong.

Pogba - What was that? Remember when Bissaka did something about half as bad and there was a massive thread on here about how it proves he's rubbish at football? Pogba does or nearly does this nearly every game. So he's what, much worse at football than Bissaka? Or is he just an idiot.

Ole - I was going to have a massive rant but I'll keep this short...what were people expecting him to be able to progress us to after last season? He could not win a Europa League against a mid table Spanish side, with a squad of players who'd have looked less out of place in the Champions League final. He at that point had been making the same mistakes game after game. The most basic of errors like picking injured players, playing people in positons they can't play, etc. What difference did anyone expect to see in his management just from us signing some more players. This is like trying to fix the fact your pilot can't fly a plane, by buying a more expensive plane.

Spot on regarding Maguire – absolute liability. Making him captain was wrong – even more so because it seems he is undroppable, despite being our weakest CB (would prefer absolutely anyone playing instead of him). He drifts around without having any idea what or who is behind him, he is painfully slow, so is unable to get back into a position where he can provide any defensive benefit.

And as soon as he drifts acoss the pitch, Shaw follows him with out having even a thought for all the space he is leaving behind him. No wonder that so many goals / assists come from that side of the pitch.

We still do not have a system that the players seem to be aware of – either in defence or in attack.

 

[Whatsername]

Whoever put together the pre-match playlist needs sacking too.
They played Sit Down by James, the dippers’ Mo Salah chant.
Incompetence runs all through the club.

 

[GregM40]

Utterly depressing. As bad as it gets. Worse than the City 6-1 game by miles. All the buzz from the Atalanta game completely dissipated. Lots of scousers in the pub too (why?!?).

 

[Betson]

All the transfer money spent , one of the biggest wage bills in Europe , all the hype and this is what we end up with. If this is progress , god help us.

And the worst thing is that a lot is us were expecting and fearing something like this when we met a decent team.

Liverpool are light years ahead of us and yesterday was a true reflection of the current state of both clubs.

 

[croadyman]

*Most humiliating defeat in your lifetime… so far*

Would say surely it can't get worse than that against City, however after yesterday maybe I will be made to look a total prat on that one

 

[Bosws87]

Nothing like the city defeat that one you could see this result coming a mile off it wasn't a shock in the slightest, my only question is why isn't pogba starting in a game you need to control the centre of the park.

I spent a good portion of my time breaking up fights in the concourse between the ole in/ole out brigade reminding them we are all supporting the same team, the toxicity is well and truly flowing.

 

[United Hobbit]

Apparently it was a "setback" er a bit more than a flipping "setback " more like complete and utter humiliation!

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...Mx2HIM3D2s8fsofZBDsWWmFezobYO-lIwHm_OkCLlNOk4

 

[noodlehair]

I mean he's still injured isn't he? From the Villa game, where he got injured and still for some reason was allowed to hobble around the pitch like a complete twat for a further 10 minutes - presumably because Ole hates substitutions.

He shouldn't be getting picked, but we live in a world where unless your leg is literally dangling off your body, Ole will play you... because injuries aren't a real thing apparently.

But yeah, take Maguire out of the team in the last 3 games and we probably avoid conceding about 8 of the goals we've conceded.

I mean whether he's injured or just unprofessionally unfit at this point is irrelevant at this point, because either way it is now unprofessional management.

People's complaints about Ole are usually along the lines of him not having the tactical ability of a top manager, but really this is the most basic stuff possible. Don't pick people who aren't fit. Don't pick people who you know will play so badly that it will make it impossible for the team to even carry them. This is as easy as management gets and he is getting it wrong over and over.

The Maguire rant still stands as I really don't get how he has no personal sense of professionalism or shame to repeatedly play like that. He was similarly bad last year at home to Tottenham. If you were that bad and had any sense of pride you would make fecking sure it never happened again...but then any manager with even half a clue wouldn't be putting him near their first team in that state.

 

[The Oracle]

Nothing like the city defeat that one you could see this result coming a mile off it wasn't a shock in the slightest, my only question is why isn't pogba starting in a game you need to control the centre of the park.

I spent a good portion of my time breaking up fights in the concourse between the ole in/ole out brigade reminding them we are all supporting the same team, the toxicity is well and truly flowing.

Maybe the answer can be found by looking at what happened in the 15 minutes he was on the pitch...
- lost the ball in midfield which led to Liverpool scoring their 5th
- got sent off for a studs up lunge (something he has been doing in previous matches, but had got away with)

Ultimately he cannot be trusted, and what happened yesterday only added to the list of his disappointing performances against Liverpool...
From memory:
> gave away a penalty at home for a handball when he was trying to head a corner away
> missed an easy chance at Anfield last season late on, that would have ended Liverpool's long unbeaten home run

 

[Wilt]

Maybe the answer can be found by looking at what happened in the 15 minutes he was on the pitch...
- lost the ball in midfield which led to Liverpool scoring their 5th
- got sent off for a studs up lunge (something he has been doing in previous matches, but had got away with)

Ultimately he cannot be trusted, and what happened yesterday only added to the list of his disappointing performances against Liverpool...
From memory:
> gave away a penalty at home for a handball when he was trying to head a corner away
> missed an easy chance at Anfield last season late on, that would have ended Liverpool's long unbeaten home run

Subbing Pogba on when 4-0 down ….hardly surprising he played out of his comfort zone.

 

[Siezard]

Nothing like the city defeat that one you could see this result coming a mile off it wasn't a shock in the slightest, my only question is why isn't pogba starting in a game you need to control the centre of the park.

I spent a good portion of my time breaking up fights in the concourse between the ole in/ole out brigade reminding them we are all supporting the same team, the toxicity is well and truly flowing.

Because there's a thread that says Pogba should not start during important games.

 

[Pjisared]

Due to work commitments i recorded the game.
So at the moment its still 0-0.
I figure as long as i dont watch the game we have managed a draw.
I intend to record the city game too.

 

[Handsome Devil]

What happened to "individual feckin' brilliance" yesterday??

 

[Solskjær's Red Army]

As a new member why did you choose that name.

Dunno. Maybe because of the excitement after the Spurs win last season. I know it was a mistake.

 

[peridigm]

What happened to "individual feckin' brilliance" yesterday??

Frozen out.

 

[Member 101269]

Scholes said it perfectly and people were mad at him. If you have a first half like against Atalanta, with a team like Liverpool you will concede 4 and the game will be done at half time.

Always trust Scholes.

which is about tactics; you cannot go toe to toe with Liverpool with that midfield.. ole is to blame

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

I notice that about 3 people on here actually correctly predicted a 5-0 win for Liverpool.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Utterly depressing. As bad as it gets. Worse than the City 6-1 game by miles. All the buzz from the Atalanta game completely dissipated. Lots of scousers in the pub too (why?!?).

Miles worse. In the City 1-6 we were chasing the game with 10 men and only 1-3 down with 10 minutes left if memory serves.
Yesterday we were obliterated by ht.

 

[Buster15]

When you are 'put to the sword' on your own pitch its bad, when its done by your biggest rivals its terrible, when nobody at your club on or off the pitch seems to have a clue, its a nightmare!!

Questions
1/Why do we continue to try to play out from the back when we clearly don't know how to, or even how to simply 'pass and move', and we therefore allow the opposition to take up positions right up to our 18 yard box, so one mistake from us and they are in on goal?

Talk about "allowing them to put their tanks on our lawn". Klopp must have been having wet dreams over this!

2/ If our 'strength' is our front players, our four attacking experts (so called), why not try to get the ball up to them directly if all else fails then from goal kicks, at least if we lose or fail to gain the first (and/or ) second ball, its in their half and they have to cover 50 odd yards or so to present a goal threat, chance for us to recover?

Its not elegant football admitted, but it might be more effective given our inability to use our heads!

3/ Why do our midfielders (in particular) regularly get caught on the ball directly or on the turn, could it be their 'in possession' default movements are so well known to the opposition, they can move to take the ball without having to think?

Football is a simple game, but we make it extremely difficult... for ourselves!

It was a nightmare. Made worse because it was not difficult to see what was going to happen.
Pick the same team as struggled, in the first half, against Atalanta.
Not start off with a much more compact formation so as not to get overloaded.
Fred and McTominay were never going to compete with the Liverpool midfield.
I would have picked Matic and told him to sit and protect the back line.

It was an accident waiting to happen.
And it happened in the most comprehensive manner.

 

[#07]

Honestly that image of Dog leash laughing at us in our own house has f'd me right off. Seen that s-t too many times today. Him and his f'n t shirts. F-k!

I hate, HATE this Man Utd team now. They made me watch that f'ry yesterday. Players I liked a lot before yesterday I am looking sideways at now.

Even if you dislike Ole, don't believe in him. Don't make the fans have to swallow that shower of s-t.

The Scousers will be talking about this in 100 years time. I don't think the players realise what they've done.

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

I don't think the players realise what they've done.

They may not even care, they will still get their big bucks wages even after performing like that & Ole will be grinning like a Cheshire cat at the next presser.

 

[Asger]

They may not even care, they will still get their big bucks wages even after performing like that & Ole will be grinning like a Cheshire cat at the next presser.

Players should be fined if the don't perform.

 

[El Zoido]

It’s the fact we looked so clueless that has irritated me the most. Just unbelievably amateur through and through. Nobody had any idea what they were doing, we looked like a charity football team where you get celebrities to play. I simply do not know how a professional team can be so poor, let alone a premier league team, let alone Manchester United. The most unforgivable part is that it was 100% predictable and has been all season, yet we keep sticking with the exact same players and tactics. It’s beyond comprehension.

 

[sunama]

With great power comes great responsibility...

Therefore you will have to wait and see

The Oracle, I demand that you tell me when he will be sacked.
I also want to know who his replacement will be and on the off chance, I'd like the winning numbers for this weekend's lottery.

 

[The Oracle]

The Oracle, I demand that you tell me when he will be sacked.
I also want to know who his replacement will be and on the off chance, I'd like the winning numbers for this weekend's lottery.

That's 3 wishes...

I'm an oracle, not a genie!

 

[RopersReturn]

The malaise runs deep within this club, and it is a bit unnerving to see how a global footballing institution is absolutely clueless when it comes to footballing decisions.

Manchester United have failed to evolve with modern football in so many ways. I still list down a few:

Football in the last 10-12 years has seen two major tactical revolutions in tiki-taka and gegenpressing. Almost every modern club has adapted to this paradigm, and some, like City and Bayern, have gone beyond that to actually create a hybrid version which incorporates some elements of both.

Manchester United have stood by, and wilfully ignored any opportunity to revamp their coaching setup while they go on and on about the club's DNA and history like a broken record.

They have hired renowned managers like Van Gaal and Mourinho, who are tactical disciplinarians, and then expected them to change their style to adapt to the 'Manchester United' way.

Sure, Mourinho was the wrong guy as he is bitterness personified, but I still believe that if they gave Van Gaal enough time, he would have ushered in a new playing style which could have competed with the Klopps and the Guardiolas.

Instead, we have given into nostalogia and placed our long-term faith in a club legend without any significant high-level experience. Why? Just because he has overseen some thrilling comebacks which reminds us of the 'Manchester United' way?

I wish I could go on and dissect the transfer strategy, but then there is no strategy. Buying the big names available in the market is behaving like a dog on the street which chases every new shiny car. The amount of money which has been wasted on dysfunctional players should have resulted in the firing of the top executive. But then, the same guy is in charge of securing sponsorship deals, so everything evens out.

Finally, I will just ask my fellow supporters to watch our gameplay when we are not counter attacking, and tell me if sideways passing on the edge of the box counts as proactive play? Does blindly chasing the opponent player with the ball as individuals count as pressing?

This is a club which is so blinded by its own brand and history that it has forgotten that its primary goal is to play football as per the times and try to win something.

 

[barros]

Watching the goals again on YouTube and Shaw and Maguire shouldn’t be playing for United.

 

[The Oracle]

This is uncanny...

It was 16th February 1946, and it was just a few months after restrictions were lifted following a global event (World War II), and capacity crowds had been allowed back into English stadiums

The venue was Anfield, and a full-house watched on as Liverpool was humiliated 5-0 on their home patch by Manchester United.


Fast-forward 75 years...


It was 24th October 2021, and it was just a few months after restrictions were lifted following a global event (Coronavirus), and capacity crowds had been allowed back into English stadiums

The venue was Old Trafford, and a full-house watched on as Manchester United was humiliated 5-0 on their home patch by Liverpool.

 

[weizxx]

I notice that about 3 people on here actually correctly predicted a 5-0 win for Liverpool.

I predicted 1:3 and felt guilty.

 

[MightyRedz]

Don't want to intrude on private grief and all that, and I'm truly not trying to wind anyone up, I'm not sure that the problem is your players - how do you expect guys like CR7 to feel when they see that there is no protection for their defence? The absence of a spoiling midfield player to break things up and stop Salah setting up Keita, set the tone for the day. I can't recall an easier afternoon for :Liverpool for ages - it's pointless moaning about Maguire , AWB and Shaw when you've left them unprotected, and it's little surprise that Pogba took his frustration out in the way that he did - he must've been fuming at viewing that first half from the bench (a bit like Gerrard getting sent off against United when he came on as a sub a few years back).

As a Liverpool fan, I was pleased to see you appoint Moyes, slightly worried when LVG got the job, glad when you appointed Mourinho and ecstatic when OGS was recognised for his sterling work with Cardiff City.

OGS seems a really nice guy (a childhood Liverpool fan, I believe) but there seems to be a tactical naivety about him, that's not going to end well. All good teams are very mean when it comes to goals conceded - and run until they drop, two noticeable areas of weakness.

United have got a brilliant history, a great ground (that's starting to show signs of age), some really good players, but it's top management is shambolic and it's choice of managers is a real Achilles heel.

 

[BlackBinBag]

Why do we continue to try to play out from the back when we clearly don't know how to, or even how to simply 'pass and move', and we therefore allow the opposition to take up positions right up to our 18 yard box, so one mistake from us and they are in on goal?

We have been trying to do this for a few years now & still can't do it. We invariably start passing it around the back with each pass putting the receiving player under more pressure. We usually end up giving the ball back to DDG who will have to make a rushed clearance upfield which usually won't make it to the halfway line. This is a clear indication of the lack of coaching going on.

 

[Maticmaker]

Pick the same team as struggled, in the first half, against Atalanta.

This is what gets me the most, the dress rehearsal (Atalanta) was a shambles, escaped by skin of our teeth (and two fantastic saves from DeGea) yet he's starts with the same team and against Liverpool of all people... is there a 'death wish' lurking around OT management and coaches??

I can't recall an easier afternoon for :Liverpool for ages

Thank you for putting it so delicately.
I am convinced Liverpool eased up on us for last twenty minutes, even the ref only added 3 minutes and there were a number of stoppages in the second half.
I have been watching football matches at OT for over fifty years, that was the worst display ever from a United team and I have to say, "Sorry Ole no coming back from that"!

This is a clear indication of the lack of coaching going on.

Actually I think it could be best described as 'poor coaching', the players don't look happy,so why do they do it...instruction from coaches?
Maguire's face when he receives the ball first from DeaGea is a 'picture' of trepidation, why are they being forced to try to play out this way, almost every time.
Liverpool didn't have to 'win' any ground on Sunday, every time we had a goal kick situation they could come and stand on the 18 yard line and wait for us to foul up. We surrendered the initiative to go straight to the front players, to have made sure all Liverpool players were in their own half, at least half of them facing their own goal.
It would not have been elegant football admittedly, but trying to play man for man against such opposition is suicide... as Paul Scholes warned during the week!

 

[CR1]

Ole is likely to get the sack sooner or later now, I think. It’s becoming unsustainable with the amount of fans online calling for it. I would have liked to see him bring in a CDM/DLP and back-up RB in order to finish the rebuild, but he chose to keep the likes of Martial instead. Also, his year-long benching of Vdb in favor of injured players is just flat-out strange. Still, whoever come in after him has a good chance of making the team kick on with only 1-2 new signings or even just a change of tactics.

I would wait a bit though. Still early in the season with the CL, FA Cup and top four still on.

My preferred starting eleven for Spurs:

Rashford (Ronaldo or Cavani) Sancho
Fernandes Matic Vdb
Shaw Bailly Lindelof Awb
Ddg

Resting Maguire.

 

[VanDeBank]

Due to work commitments i recorded the game.
So at the moment its still 0-0.
I figure as long as i dont watch the game we have managed a draw.
I intend to record the city game too.

There's a thread called manchester united videos or something where all the games are posted.

 

[OleTheGreat]

I'm worried for the club. Sadly this won't end if we get Conte. We need Erik Ten Hag! and Glazers need to head out.

 

[::sonny::]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Tony Clifton]

This is uncanny...

It was 16th February 1946, and it was just a few months after restrictions were lifted following a global event (World War II), and capacity crowds had been allowed back into English stadiums

The venue was Anfield, and a full-house watched on as Liverpool was humiliated 5-0 on their home patch by Manchester United.


Fast-forward 75 years...


It was 24th October 2021, and it was just a few months after restrictions were lifted following a global event (Coronavirus), and capacity crowds had been allowed back into English stadiums

The venue was Old Trafford, and a full-house watched on as Manchester United was humiliated 5-0 on their home patch by Liverpool.

That is uncanny. I really like those types of tidbits. Good spot.

For the record and for anyone curious, that match at Anfield in 1946 wasn't a regular league match in the Football League and First Division, but instead in the Wartime League, as it was known back then. And specifically in 1945–46, the division of League North in which Manchester United and Liverpool played.

Interestingly enough we actually beat Liverpool 5–0 again the next time we faced them, on September 11th 1946. However, that match indeed was in the Football League's First Division, which had once again resumed in 1946–47 after WW2. This five nil was played at home, which was temporarily Maine Road at the time, obviously because of what had happened to Old Trafford during WW2, but I'm sure most are aware of that story by now.

Either way, two consecutive five nil wins over Liverpool isn't too shabby, even though it must be noted that Liverpool had quite a lot of senior players joining in the war effort, so that skewed things a bit.

Anyway, enough about the distant past which currently feels very alien. Let's fast forward to the recent past and pile on some more misery on the mood after our most recent meeting, with a good analytical video from the brilliant (as usual) Tifo:

 

[The Oracle]

That is uncanny. I really like those types of tidbits. Good spot.

For the record and for anyone curious, that match at Anfield in 1946 wasn't a regular league match in the Football League and First Division, but instead in the Wartime League, as it was known back then. And specifically in 1945–46, the division of League North in which Manchester United and Liverpool played.

Interestingly enough we actually beat Liverpool 5–0 again the next time we faced them, on September 11th 1946. However, that match indeed was in the Football League's First Division, which had once again resumed in 1946–47 after WW2. This five nil was played at home, which was temporarily Maine Road at the time, obviously because of what had happened to Old Trafford during WW2, but I'm sure most are aware of that story by now.

Either way, two consecutive five nil wins over Liverpool isn't too shabby, even though it must be noted that Liverpool had quite a lot of senior players joining in the war effort, so that skewed things a bit.

Anyway, enough about the distant past which currently feels very alien. Let's fast forward to the recent past and pile on some more misery on the mood after our most recent meeting, with a good analytical video from the brilliant (as usual) Tifo:

Manchester United also had several senior players who had joined in the war effort as well.

So although you view the 5-0 win by Manchester United at Anfield as a bit ‘Skewed’, it was still in a league that had been sanctioned by the FA, and played under rules approved by the FA.


Going by your school of thought, Liverpool’s Premier League title win in 2020 can also be viewed as a bit ‘Skewed’ because it happened during a global pandemic, with senior players absent from clubs throughout the season.

Despite the pandemic, Liverpool were part of a league that had been sanctioned by the FA, and was played under rules approved by the FA (with a notable change to the rules happening before the winners of the league had been decided, when the global pandemic brought a halt to proceedings; before the resumption of the league season several months later, at which point the notable rule change was brought in that allowed more substitutions to be used).


Whether Liverpool fans like it or not, Man Utd beat Liverpool 5-0 at Anfield 75 years before they did the same to us at Old Trafford.

Whether Man Utd fans like it or not, Liverpool won a League title in 2020 despite a global pandemic causing senior players to be absent from matches; and a notable rule change being implemented part way through the season before the league had been decided.