[Hughie77]

Lost control of the game again. As for the Casimero rubbish about 2 Yellows, been on radio online etc ffs the 1st one wasn't even a yellow also the Luton player Cawood I think he had a silly yellow then went straight through Maguire that was another Yellow if the Casimero one was as well, but you don't hear about that.

Casemiro was taken off because the Luton players were looking to get him sent off, he didn't even try to put tackles in after the cheap 1st yellow that's 2 games in a row he's been given cheap Yellows by refs.. if they don't give him a straight red there looking to give him 2 Yellows.. this is an issue moving forward as he has to play imo alongside Mainoo it's looking good. The game should have been out of sight again.. the subs had to happen both on Yellows , J Evans excellent Mctom OK did the job..

 

[cpresc]

Miserable and expectant ? What a load of BS. We have to get much better and that’s coming from someone who is pro ETH and have been all the way. I want him to keep his job and get the backing. No rose tinted glasses here. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn’t make me expectant at all. The opposite actually.

before we win major trophies, we got to play better football. It’s that simple. Take your head out the sand and admit we’re playing below parr, despite the results.

the players and the manager can all acknowledge that, feck all wrong with having that opinion.

Haha ok fair enough

Re. head in sand.. I've been enjoying our games lately which certainly hasn't been common these last 10 years AND I'm optimistic for the future which again, is something that's been lacking since probably 1996!

 

[RaddyRed]

What is a bit crazy is that for 20/25 minute spells in games this season we have looked the best team in the world and then if we concede or a team put a bit of pressure on, we turn into one of the worst sides about.

Having Casemiro and Varane in the team really should mean it isn't a mentality issue with their experience. Happened last season as well at tunes, Sevilla at home being the main stand out.

 

[Blood Mage]

What is a bit crazy is that for 20/25 minute spells in games this season we have looked the best team in the world and then if we concede or a team put a bit of pressure on, we turn into one of the worst sides about.

Having Casemiro and Varane in the team really should mean it isn't a mentality issue with their experience. Happened last season as well at tunes, Sevilla at home being the main stand out.

The main issue is that we're one of the worst teams in the league at retaining possession. Mainoo and Martinez are the only players we have who don't give the ball away cheaply 100 times a game.

 

[SirScholes]

Who should have been off, Casemiro? That "2nd yellow" was never in a million years a yellow, you've been suckered by the Luton reaction there if you think so, watch it again.

No he was suckered in and dived in late

it’s a yellow

 

[redmanx]

It was supposed to be a transition season and it's proving to be just that. Some real bright sparks are emerging in the youngsters and it's clear we have the blueprints of a team growing now. Whether that team and the plan ETH has is good enough remains to be seen but we are very much in the CL hunt.

The big tests are yet to come against Arsenal, Liverpool and City; two months ago I would have settled for us not being thrashed by any of these but now Im starting to think we can give them a real game! We'll need to be at our very best and I read that the hope is that Lissandro Martinez will be back in April for the Chelsea match and hopefully he'll be fit for Liverpool a few days later, but it appears he'll miss the City match. Lets hope too that Shaw, Varane, Maguire and Wan Bissaka are fit too!

 

[redmanx]

No he was suckered in and dived in late

it’s a yellow

Sadly, certain Luton players were more intent on getting our players booked than actually playing football.

 

[Woziak]

Biggest take from the game apart from how well Kobie is playing is Ross Barkley, miles there a free transfer in the summer I could get right behind, his wages are probably 50k per week give him 100k bring him in free he would be our most complete midfielder apart from Kobie on current form and is a perfect replacement for Eriksen leaving.
Brailsford loves him let’s hope we’ve tapped him up 2+1 contract on 100k per week with no transfer fee equals No Brainer ?

 

[RedRocket9908]

No he was suckered in and dived in late

it’s a yellow

Ex-reg Dermott Gallagher said on SKY Sports News that it wasnt a yellow card.

 

[TwoSheds]

No he was suckered in and dived in late

it’s a yellow

Was it feck, not every foul is a yellow, he went for the ball and didn't get it, it happens 100 times a game. Not reckless, not dangerous, not intentional, not a yellow.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The big tests are yet to come against Arsenal, Liverpool and City; two months ago I would have settled for us not being thrashed by any of these but now Im starting to think we can give them a real game! We'll need to be at our very best and I read that the hope is that Lissandro Martinez will be back in April for the Chelsea match and hopefully he'll be fit for Liverpool a few days later, but it appears he'll miss the City match. Lets hope too that Shaw, Varane, Maguire and Wan Bissaka are fit too!

We’ve already played Pool and Ars away. I fancy us against Pool at home, there’s a lot of pressure on them now with Klopp leaving. I don’t have great faith in us to win the big games yet though but then that’s not really where we should be aiming. Our issue has been not winning the games we should be winning, dropping stupid points throughout the season. Once you get that bit right you’re basically on 70+ points and ready to make a couple of key signings for a title charge. That’s how I see it anyway. No idea if we’ll keep up this recent good form or we’re hiring a new coach come summer.

 

[tjb]

stats and comparisons can be very misleading. in fact we are doing quite well considering the amount of injuriers we had this season. even now one of our most important players is missing and we are no city that has a perfect squad, as we had no plan for ages doing transfers. thats not all on eth and i think he will florish with a professional setting that will come with ineos. just wait and see where we are in two years. i think we will be back on top

They aren't deceiving. Those teams also had injuries.

For a comparison with other managers we've had over the last ten years who actually operated with Woodward:

Moyes: 13-14 - +21 goal difference, 64 goals, averaged 53% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.9 shots.

Van Gaal 14-15 - + 25 goal difference, 62 goals, averaged 58.8% possession, took 13.5 shots per game but conceded only 10.1 shots.

Mourinho 16-17 - + 25 goal difference, 54 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 9.5 shots

Mourinho 17-18 - +40 goal difference (81 points), 68 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots but conceded 11.5 shots.

Ole 19-20 - +30 goal difference, 66 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 14.3 shots per game but conceded 10.3 shots

Ole 20-21 - + 29 goal difference, 73 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.3 shots

Ten Haag 22 -23 - +15 goal difference, 58 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 12.7 shots.


These seasons show that other managers working with the Glazers and the structure managed to achieve more than he has done, with worse squads ( including himself in 22-23). The structure can't be an excuse when managers who are considered worse have put up way better performances with less talent.

Fans don't truly appreciate how bad a job he's done this season. He's on pace to do a worse job than Moyes did in 13-14 which is universally considered a shambolic appointment. Yet they are treated differently. Our goal difference last season is far worse than Ole and Mourinho's seasons, yet they are considered to have played regressive football. My point here is that the defence of Ten Haag is hypocritical, and the stats prove it. The only argument for him is that we played better last season, controlling games better and getting in more shots. However, the stats also show that he hasn't been able to build a system that can get us goals, even to a lesser degree than all of his predecessors. So it should not have been a surprise going into this season that goalscoring would have been an issue, and would not be a surprise if we kept him that it would be the same next season. The stats I showed prior regarding Liverpool and Man City show teams that were progressing towards title contention and had far better stats than that.

The only comparison that can actually be made statistically is with Mikel Arteta. However, over the years, we spent far more than Arsenal, and had far more to work with than Arteta had at Arsenal. Arsenal didn't have the ability to lure or afford the likes of Casemiro or Varane.
Arteta despite this has still not won the league or a cup since Arsenal's turnaround last season.

However, the stats also tell us that outside of goals scored, there was a system in place last system that could have acheived success if built upon. What ETH has done tactically in making the switch in tactics has actually been criminal. We've had managers perform better than his best, so this idea that he's special based off last season is a lie.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Think about it this way: Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal were massively lucky to get points from us at home but United were unlucky not to have had a bigger win.

Although the narrative I prefer is you guys were lucky we lost Adebayo to injury during the warm up

 

[RedfromIreland]

Think about it this way: Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal were massively lucky to get points from us at home but United were unlucky not to have had a bigger win.

Although the narrative I prefer is you guys were lucky we lost Adebayo to injury during the warm up

Don’t be coming on here telling all the premier league coaches that.
I wonder how many on here work as football coaches and if they do, why aren’t they employed by Premier League clubs?
Back in the day SAF wouldn’t have stood a chance.

 

[SirScholes]

Was it feck, not every foul is a yellow, he went for the ball and didn't get it, it happens 100 times a game. Not reckless, not dangerous, not intentional, not a yellow.

And not every yellow has to be dangerous
I’d argue it was reckless because it was late

but. We got away with one thankfully, trying taking the red goggles off every now and again

 

[SirScholes]

Ex-reg Dermott Gallagher said on SKY Sports News that it wasnt a yellow card.

He also said Dalot should have been sent off for waving his arms (?)

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They aren't deceiving. Those teams also had injuries.

For a comparison with other managers we've had over the last ten years who actually operated with Woodward:

Moyes: 13-14 - +21 goal difference, 64 goals, averaged 53% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.9 shots.

Van Gaal 14-15 - + 25 goal difference, 62 goals, averaged 58.8% possession, took 13.5 shots per game but conceded only 10.1 shots.

Mourinho 16-17 - + 25 goal difference, 54 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 9.5 shots

Mourinho 17-18 - +40 goal difference (81 points), 68 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots but conceded 11.5 shots.

Ole 19-20 - +30 goal difference, 66 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 14.3 shots per game but conceded 10.3 shots

Ole 20-21 - + 29 goal difference, 73 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.3 shots

Ten Haag 22 -23 - +15 goal difference, 58 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 12.7 shots.


These seasons show that other managers working with the Glazers and the structure managed to achieve more than he has done, with worse squads ( including himself in 22-23). The structure can't be an excuse when managers who are considered worse have put up way better performances with less talent.

Fans don't truly appreciate how bad a job he's done this season. He's on pace to do a worse job than Moyes did in 13-14 which is universally considered a shambolic appointment. Yet they are treated differently. Our goal difference last season is far worse than Ole and Mourinho's seasons, yet they are considered to have played regressive football. My point here is that the defence of Ten Haag is hypocritical, and the stats prove it. The only argument for him is that we played better last season, controlling games better and getting in more shots. However, the stats also show that he hasn't been able to build a system that can get us goals, even to a lesser degree than all of his predecessors. So it should not have been a surprise going into this season that goalscoring would have been an issue, and would not be a surprise if we kept him that it would be the same next season. The stats I showed prior regarding Liverpool and Man City show teams that were progressing towards title contention and had far better stats than that.

The only comparison that can actually be made statistically is with Mikel Arteta. However, over the years, we spent far more than Arsenal, and had far more to work with than Arteta had at Arsenal. Arsenal didn't have the ability to lure or afford the likes of Casemiro or Varane.
Arteta despite this has still not won the league or a cup since Arsenal's turnaround last season.

However, the stats also tell us that outside of goals scored, there was a system in place last system that could have acheived success if built upon. What ETH has done tactically in making the switch in tactics has actually been criminal. We've had managers perform better than his best, so this idea that he's special based off last season is a lie.

You’ve correctly identified that scoring goals has been an issue for us. What you seem to be ignoring is that ETH has had far far worse options up front than his predecessors. Stick Zlatan, Cavani and (oh yes) Lukaku up front and we would 100% have scored more goals than the disaster that’s been end stage Ronaldo, permacrock Martial and Hojlund going through a harsh learning curve. Lukaku never showed up against big teams but this team would be massively improved even with a striker who can only fill his boots against weaker teams.

So it’s no surprise that when Hojlund starts to look like a legitimate PL striker we finally look like a legitimate PL team.

 

[NLunited]

They aren't deceiving. Those teams also had injuries.

For a comparison with other managers we've had over the last ten years who actually operated with Woodward:

Moyes: 13-14 - +21 goal difference, 64 goals, averaged 53% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.9 shots.

Van Gaal 14-15 - + 25 goal difference, 62 goals, averaged 58.8% possession, took 13.5 shots per game but conceded only 10.1 shots.

Mourinho 16-17 - + 25 goal difference, 54 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 9.5 shots

Mourinho 17-18 - +40 goal difference (81 points), 68 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots but conceded 11.5 shots.

Ole 19-20 - +30 goal difference, 66 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 14.3 shots per game but conceded 10.3 shots

Ole 20-21 - + 29 goal difference, 73 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.3 shots

Ten Haag 22 -23 - +15 goal difference, 58 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 12.7 shots.


These seasons show that other managers working with the Glazers and the structure managed to achieve more than he has done, with worse squads ( including himself in 22-23). The structure can't be an excuse when managers who are considered worse have put up way better performances with less talent.

Fans don't truly appreciate how bad a job he's done this season. He's on pace to do a worse job than Moyes did in 13-14 which is universally considered a shambolic appointment. Yet they are treated differently. Our goal difference last season is far worse than Ole and Mourinho's seasons, yet they are considered to have played regressive football. My point here is that the defence of Ten Haag is hypocritical, and the stats prove it. The only argument for him is that we played better last season, controlling games better and getting in more shots. However, the stats also show that he hasn't been able to build a system that can get us goals, even to a lesser degree than all of his predecessors. So it should not have been a surprise going into this season that goalscoring would have been an issue, and would not be a surprise if we kept him that it would be the same next season. The stats I showed prior regarding Liverpool and Man City show teams that were progressing towards title contention and had far better stats than that.

The only comparison that can actually be made statistically is with Mikel Arteta. However, over the years, we spent far more than Arsenal, and had far more to work with than Arteta had at Arsenal. Arsenal didn't have the ability to lure or afford the likes of Casemiro or Varane.
Arteta despite this has still not won the league or a cup since Arsenal's turnaround last season.

However, the stats also tell us that outside of goals scored, there was a system in place last system that could have acheived success if built upon. What ETH has done tactically in making the switch in tactics has actually been criminal. We've had managers perform better than his best, so this idea that he's special based off last season is a lie.

Posting walls of texts with facts like this without mentioning circumstances and leaving out stats that don‘t fit your narrative is not a great look.

 

[tjb]

You’ve correctly identified that scoring goals has been an issue for us. What you seem to be ignoring is that ETH has had far far worse options up front than his predecessors. Stick Zlatan, Cavani and (oh yes) Lukaku up front and we would 100% have scored more goals than the disaster that’s been end stage Ronaldo, permacrock Martial and Hojlund going through a harsh learning curve. Lukaku never showed up against big teams but this team would be massively improved even with a striker who can only fill his boots against weaker teams.

So it’s no surprise that when Hojlund starts to look like a legitimate PL striker we finally look like a legitimate PL team.

So you're blaming Hojlund???? The guy who receives no service to defend Ten Haag. So if Hojlund stops scoring it's his fault again despite receiving no service....hmmm interesting

 

[tjb]

Posting walls of texts with facts like this without mentioning circumstances and leaving out stats that don‘t fit your narrative is not a great look.

The texts give you facts. The walls of text exist to explain and provide enough context. He's not the first manager to have injuries, nor is he the first to have disruptive squad members. But we'll act like it's not his job to manage this and give him a pass. The stats there were consistent. And instead of providing something to refute that, your answer is to say it's not a great look.

The stats are simple. I gave you the stats that other managers had prior to going on successful runs and compared it with ours. Then when confronted with how " Ten Haag has to deal with poor structures" , I compared with with past United managers who also had to deal with these poor structures with the same numbers. I struggle to see how that isn't clear

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So you're blaming Hojlund???? The guy who receives no service to defend Ten Haag. So if Hojlund stops scoring it's his fault again despite receiving no service....hmmm interesting

That’s a truly bizarre way to interpret what I wrote. I think you need to read my post again.

 

[NLunited]

The texts give you facts. The walls of text exist to explain and provide enough context. He's not the first manager to have injuries, nor is he the first to have disruptive squad members. But we'll act like it's not his job to manage this and give him a pass. The stats there were consistent. And instead of providing something to refute that, your answer is to say it's not a great look.

The stats are simple. I gave you the stats that other managers had prior to going on successful runs and compared it with ours. Then when confronted with how " Ten Haag has to deal with poor structures" , I compared with with past United managers who also had to deal with these poor structures with the same numbers. I struggle to see how that isn't clear

You left out some years there, quite intentionally I‘m sure. You also dismiss the injury crisis which is worse than any other team had to deal with.

When you compare the strikers Ten Hag had to work with vs Mourinho, that is especially damning to your agenda.

 

[tjb]

That’s a truly bizarre way to interpret what I wrote. I think you need to read my post again.

I read your post. Our lack of goals had nothing to do with a Hojlund learning curve. Our system doesn't create changes, so I personally don't think even the likes of Ibra and Lukaku would have made much our of nothing here. My theory is that in hindsight, Ronaldo was more of a scapegoat than we realized at the time. Ten Haag was new, fans were willing to provide any explanation for systemic failures. It was the first sign of Ten Haag's lack of adaptability, but it was ignored due to how Ronaldo handled the situation.

 

[The Boy]

They aren't deceiving. Those teams also had injuries.

For a comparison with other managers we've had over the last ten years who actually operated with Woodward:

Moyes: 13-14 - +21 goal difference, 64 goals, averaged 53% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.9 shots.

Van Gaal 14-15 - + 25 goal difference, 62 goals, averaged 58.8% possession, took 13.5 shots per game but conceded only 10.1 shots.

Mourinho 16-17 - + 25 goal difference, 54 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 9.5 shots

Mourinho 17-18 - +40 goal difference (81 points), 68 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots but conceded 11.5 shots.

Ole 19-20 - +30 goal difference, 66 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 14.3 shots per game but conceded 10.3 shots

Ole 20-21 - + 29 goal difference, 73 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.3 shots

Ten Haag 22 -23 - +15 goal difference, 58 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 12.7 shots.


These seasons show that other managers working with the Glazers and the structure managed to achieve more than he has done, with worse squads ( including himself in 22-23). The structure can't be an excuse when managers who are considered worse have put up way better performances with less talent.

Fans don't truly appreciate how bad a job he's done this season. He's on pace to do a worse job than Moyes did in 13-14 which is universally considered a shambolic appointment. Yet they are treated differently. Our goal difference last season is far worse than Ole and Mourinho's seasons, yet they are considered to have played regressive football. My point here is that the defence of Ten Haag is hypocritical, and the stats prove it. The only argument for him is that we played better last season, controlling games better and getting in more shots. However, the stats also show that he hasn't been able to build a system that can get us goals, even to a lesser degree than all of his predecessors. So it should not have been a surprise going into this season that goalscoring would have been an issue, and would not be a surprise if we kept him that it would be the same next season. The stats I showed prior regarding Liverpool and Man City show teams that were progressing towards title contention and had far better stats than that.

The only comparison that can actually be made statistically is with Mikel Arteta. However, over the years, we spent far more than Arsenal, and had far more to work with than Arteta had at Arsenal. Arsenal didn't have the ability to lure or afford the likes of Casemiro or Varane.
Arteta despite this has still not won the league or a cup since Arsenal's turnaround last season.

However, the stats also tell us that outside of goals scored, there was a system in place last system that could have acheived success if built upon. What ETH has done tactically in making the switch in tactics has actually been criminal. We've had managers perform better than his best, so this idea that he's special based off last season is a lie.

The shots for and shots conceded stats are pretty irrelevant without any context, how many shots were no hopers from outside the box? how many were even on target? How many were blocked by good defending? how many were almost impossible to score because the defence had shepherded the shooter away from danger?

Shots for and against are the blandest and most meaningless stats and require a huge amount of context to make any real argument.

 

[tjb]

You left out some years there, quite intentionally I‘m sure. You also dismiss the injury crisis which is worse than any other team had to deal with.

When you compare the strikers Ten Hag had to work with vs Mourinho, that is especially damning to your agenda.

The argument made was it was under the structure. Not that this was the only bad season United had. 2019 and 2022 were comparatively bad years, but different managers started and finished those seasons. In addition, I don't think Hojlund has been at fault, even to start the season. The area we've failed is creating changes for him and when watching games, this has been clear.

 

[Marcus]

We should have scored more. But it's ok. 3 points in the bag and loads of chances created. That's progress. Luton at home are no mugs.

 

[vanrooney]

They aren't deceiving. Those teams also had injuries.

For a comparison with other managers we've had over the last ten years who actually operated with Woodward:

Moyes: 13-14 - +21 goal difference, 64 goals, averaged 53% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.9 shots.

Van Gaal 14-15 - + 25 goal difference, 62 goals, averaged 58.8% possession, took 13.5 shots per game but conceded only 10.1 shots.

Mourinho 16-17 - + 25 goal difference, 54 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 9.5 shots

Mourinho 17-18 - +40 goal difference (81 points), 68 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots but conceded 11.5 shots.

Ole 19-20 - +30 goal difference, 66 goals, averaged 55% possession, took 14.3 shots per game but conceded 10.3 shots

Ole 20-21 - + 29 goal difference, 73 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 13.8 shots per game but conceded 11.3 shots

Ten Haag 22 -23 - +15 goal difference, 58 goals, averaged 54% possession, took 15.6 shots per game but conceded 12.7 shots.


These seasons show that other managers working with the Glazers and the structure managed to achieve more than he has done, with worse squads ( including himself in 22-23). The structure can't be an excuse when managers who are considered worse have put up way better performances with less talent.

Fans don't truly appreciate how bad a job he's done this season. He's on pace to do a worse job than Moyes did in 13-14 which is universally considered a shambolic appointment. Yet they are treated differently. Our goal difference last season is far worse than Ole and Mourinho's seasons, yet they are considered to have played regressive football. My point here is that the defence of Ten Haag is hypocritical, and the stats prove it. The only argument for him is that we played better last season, controlling games better and getting in more shots. However, the stats also show that he hasn't been able to build a system that can get us goals, even to a lesser degree than all of his predecessors. So it should not have been a surprise going into this season that goalscoring would have been an issue, and would not be a surprise if we kept him that it would be the same next season. The stats I showed prior regarding Liverpool and Man City show teams that were progressing towards title contention and had far better stats than that.

The only comparison that can actually be made statistically is with Mikel Arteta. However, over the years, we spent far more than Arsenal, and had far more to work with than Arteta had at Arsenal. Arsenal didn't have the ability to lure or afford the likes of Casemiro or Varane.
Arteta despite this has still not won the league or a cup since Arsenal's turnaround last season.

However, the stats also tell us that outside of goals scored, there was a system in place last system that could have acheived success if built upon. What ETH has done tactically in making the switch in tactics has actually been criminal. We've had managers perform better than his best, so this idea that he's special based off last season is a lie.

stats tell you what you want them to tell in most cases. gd, average possesion or shots per game can be completely misleading. for example you compare a squad who won the league one to two years ago (13-14 to 14-15) with a team that totally collapsed under ole and rangnick and has to be build from scratch. and we all know that mou and ole had also good patches.

of course this year was not good until now but the injuries are the main course for that, as you see that with more people back we are winning again. in the end its all about reaching the cl places this year and it looks good we do that (it wasnt realistic that we challenge for the title with this team this year). in combination with the performances of last season and a (small) title eth should get the time to show what he is capable. thats the only thing i want to say.

 

[ForeverRed1]

Haha ok fair enough

Re. head in sand.. I've been enjoying our games lately which certainly hasn't been common these last 10 years AND I'm optimistic for the future which again, is something that's been lacking since probably 1996!

This we can both agree on. I hope we stick with ETH and give him the tools he needs to make a success of it here. It’s his third season coming up though so I’ll stand by what I said and admit that we’ll need to play better football if he’s going to stick around. The football hasn’t been the most exciting to watch and the goals haven’t exactly been where they need to be. We’re in a goal difference of +1 so it’s pretty obvious to say it needs to be much better. Nothing in wrong with being honest about where we’re at. In ETHs defence though, no manager has been able to produce anything near the level since coming here in the last 10 years because the whole club has been run badly and toxic throughout. Hence why I hope ineos give him a fair shot with better support. I’m totally team ETH still.

The whole ineos thing so far looks very good with them making the right moves. I was also very much against Qatar taking over because I don’t want to be a city or PSG. I just hope they are ruthless with these players because most of them could probably be sold and upgraded. It will be an exciting summer for us for sure! And you’re right, we do have a lot to be excited about right now!

 

[TwoSheds]

And not every yellow has to be dangerous
I’d argue it was reckless because it was late

but. We got away with one thankfully, trying taking the red goggles off every now and again

I don't think you understand what reckless means, you might try looking at the FA rules with or without your goggles.

 

[Gordon Godot]

This we can both agree on. I hope we stick with ETH and give him the tools he needs to make a success of it here. It’s his third season coming up though so I’ll stand by what I said and admit that we’ll need to play better football if he’s going to stick around. The football hasn’t been the most exciting to watch and the goals haven’t exactly been where they need to be. We’re in a goal difference of +1 so it’s pretty obvious to say it needs to be much better. Nothing in wrong with being honest about where we’re at. In ETHs defence though, no manager has been able to produce anything near the level since coming here in the last 10 years because the whole club has been run badly and toxic throughout. Hence why I hope ineos give him a fair shot with better support. I’m totally team ETH still.

The whole ineos thing so far looks very good with them making the right moves. I was also very much against Qatar taking over because I don’t want to be a city or PSG. I just hope they are ruthless with these players because most of them could probably be sold and upgraded. It will be an exciting summer for us for sure! And you’re right, we do have a lot to be excited about right now!

We made a series of awful terrible managerial appointments, from the abysmal Moyes, the over the hill LVG, the toxic Mourinho to the completely unqualified Ole. This is not a list to inspire. Just because they struggled does not make the job impossible, even if its undoubtedly very challenging. When we say give ETH the 'tools he needs'. what are they? He's had free reign on transfers, spent £400m mainly on his ex players or those he knew from Dutch league, he's had 18 months and still seems to be under no pressure. What else exactly does he need?

 

[SirScholes]

I don't think you understand what reckless means, you might try looking at the FA rules with or without your goggles.

I definitely won’t be using the FA as a reference point, been one of the worst seasons for ref errors

 

[TwoSheds]

I definitely won’t be using the FA as a reference point, been one of the worst seasons for ref errors

Completely irrelevant as to what the rules of the game say but sure. They're on the FA website if you ever do fancy a look to learn them.

 

[SirScholes]

Completely irrelevant as to what the rules of the game say but sure. They're on the FA website if you ever do fancy a look to learn them.

Nah I’ll watch players get booked for the exact same challenge this weekend, seen it before and will see it again.
anyway, on to the next one

 

[ForeverRed1]

We made a series of awful terrible managerial appointments, from the abysmal Moyes, the over the hill LVG, the toxic Mourinho to the completely unqualified Ole. This is not a list to inspire. Just because they struggled does not make the job impossible, even if its undoubtedly very challenging. When we say give ETH the 'tools he needs'. what are they? He's had free reign on transfers, spent £400m mainly on his ex players or those he knew from Dutch league, he's had 18 months and still seems to be under no pressure. What else exactly does he need?

In my humble opinion, a manager should not have free reign on transfers. He’s a head coach not a recruitment specialist. Transfers are multi faceted, in depth transactions so a manager shouldn’t have a free rein on them at all. It should go through multiple people before it even gets to the signing of the contract. The fact he is blamed for our transfer business is part of the problem itself. Our transfer business has been shocking for 10 years with only Bruno Fernandes being exception. And that’s open for debate. Pretty much every other signing has been mediocre or below standard. Some being okay but not league winning level stuff.

The tools he needs would be an infrastructure around him that puts the club in a position to succeed which we currently do not have. Let's take pep at city, he sits at a table surrounded by the best in the business. He is not at full responsibility for Man City. He is one very important cog in the machine.. but he is backed by footballing men at every single turn.

He deserves a shot at being solely the coach. Of a club this size in the position it’s in, that in itself is a huge task. A manager can’t and shouldn’t do it all. This club needs world class people from the top all the way to the bottom and ineos look to be putting that in place. Make no mistake about it man united has been badly run for many years and no manager is going to turn this sinking ship around. It will take much much much more than that.

support him and help him to succeed I say or atleast give him a good go at it.

 

[cpresc]

This we can both agree on. I hope we stick with ETH and give him the tools he needs to make a success of it here. It’s his third season coming up though so I’ll stand by what I said and admit that we’ll need to play better football if he’s going to stick around. The football hasn’t been the most exciting to watch and the goals haven’t exactly been where they need to be. We’re in a goal difference of +1 so it’s pretty obvious to say it needs to be much better. Nothing in wrong with being honest about where we’re at. In ETHs defence though, no manager has been able to produce anything near the level since coming here in the last 10 years because the whole club has been run badly and toxic throughout. Hence why I hope ineos give him a fair shot with better support. I’m totally team ETH still.

The whole ineos thing so far looks very good with them making the right moves. I was also very much against Qatar taking over because I don’t want to be a city or PSG. I just hope they are ruthless with these players because most of them could probably be sold and upgraded. It will be an exciting summer for us for sure! And you’re right, we do have a lot to be excited about right now!

Agree completely.

Yes I think Dan Ashworth will be ruthless in cutting out the rot.

Here's hoping!

 

[norm87cro]

Lost control of the game again. As for the Casimero rubbish about 2 Yellows, been on radio online etc ffs the 1st one wasn't even a yellow also the Luton player Cawood I think he had a silly yellow then went straight through Maguire that was another Yellow if the Casimero one was as well, but you don't hear about that.

Casemiro was taken off because the Luton players were looking to get him sent off, he didn't even try to put tackles in after the cheap 1st yellow that's 2 games in a row he's been given cheap Yellows by refs.. if they don't give him a straight red there looking to give him 2 Yellows.. this is an issue moving forward as he has to play imo alongside Mainoo it's looking good. The game should have been out of sight again.. the subs had to happen both on Yellows , J Evans excellent Mctom OK did the job..

Havent watched the game but I believe your view on it. As far as the Casemiro issue he got away with probably 10 reds in Reals shirt and the refs are compensating now which is wrong

 

[Crimson King]

Havent watched the game but I believe your view on it. As far as the Casemiro issue he got away with probably 10 reds in Reals shirt and the refs are compensating now which is wrong

That Real shirt carries a lot more weight in Spain than United's does in the England, especially since SAF retired. Even then though, we used to get ridiculous things go against us (red cards carrying over from friendlies, Rooney getting banned for swearing, etc.)

 

[RedIan]

We made this a tougher game that it should have been 2 nil up in no time then as per usual we allow the opposition a goal and they then battle And we retreat.
second half we controlled it and had clear chances to make it more like a 4-1 win.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Agree completely.

Yes I think Dan Ashworth will be ruthless in cutting out the rot.

Here's hoping!

In my humble opinion, a manager should not have free reign on transfers. He’s a head coach not a recruitment specialist. Transfers are multi faceted, in depth transactions so a manager shouldn’t have a free rein on them at all. It should go through multiple people before it even gets to the signing of the contract. The fact he is blamed for our transfer business is part of the problem itself. Our transfer business has been shocking for 10 years with only Bruno Fernandes being exception. And that’s open for debate. Pretty much every other signing has been mediocre or below standard. Some being okay but not league winning level stuff.

The tools he needs would be an infrastructure around him that puts the club in a position to succeed which we currently do not have. Let's take pep at city, he sits at a table surrounded by the best in the business. He is not at full responsibility for Man City. He is one very important cog in the machine.. but he is backed by footballing men at every single turn.

He deserves a shot at being solely the coach. Of a club this size in the position it’s in, that in itself is a huge task. A manager can’t and shouldn’t do it all. This club needs world class people from the top all the way to the bottom and ineos look to be putting that in place. Make no mistake about it man united has been badly run for many years and no manager is going to turn this sinking ship around. It will take much much much more than that.

support him and help him to succeed I say or atleast give him a good go at it.

Yes our transfers have been poor for a while, even with Fergie we fell well off the pace with rubbish about value and his hatred of super agents. But it seems accepted that ETH wanted and was given a veto and near control over transfers. The majority of our signings or either ex Ajax or from the Dutch league, and most are simply not good enough. He has set us back at least 2 years as we now find ourselves crippled by the financial rules. The fact that he was so desperate to sign Antony to me is just a massive, massive red flag, he not only signed but persisted in playing Weghorst, Amrabat looks another dud (not a surprise). I find it hard to accept he is some sort of great football philosopher when he seems to be such a poor judge of ability. His refusal to meet with Rangnick, who had identified plenty of good transfer targets, equally suggests someone way too arrogant and over confident. Still, its with Jim now. I hope they make the right decisions.

With all these posts, I am still not sure what the magic 'tool' he needs to be given. Is it an unlimited budget, 4 years, no injuries, something else...?

 

[ForeverRed1]

Yes our transfers have been poor for a while, even with Fergie we fell well off the pace with rubbish about value and his hatred of super agents. But it seems accepted that ETH wanted and was given a veto and near control over transfers. The majority of our signings or either ex Ajax or from the Dutch league, and most are simply not good enough. He has set us back at least 2 years as we now find ourselves crippled by the financial rules. The fact that he was so desperate to sign Antony to me is just a massive, massive red flag, he not only signed but persisted in playing Weghorst, Amrabat looks another dud (not a surprise). I find it hard to accept he is some sort of great football philosopher when he seems to be such a poor judge of ability. His refusal to meet with Rangnick, who had identified plenty of good transfer targets, equally suggests someone way too arrogant and over confident. Still, its with Jim now. I hope they make the right decisions.

With all these posts, I am still not sure what the magic 'tool' he needs to be given. Is it an unlimited budget, 4 years, no injuries, something else...?

The fact that any manager can walk in and demand “let me sign the players” and it be excepted surely shows you how way off it we are? What the hell are the other people paid to do a job doing at this club then? It’s a process that should have layers upon layers up layers before pen gets anywhere near paper. Your telling me ETH just goes out with his shopping kart and comes back with Mason Mount? Shockingly bad if he just signs players with no further input, you’re saying we don’t have analysts and data specialists ? Recruitment, scouting, CEOs, directors technical director, etc etc etc. All of these above and more would have done their research, due diligence and agreed to sign any players coming into the club. It isn’t down to simply the manager. The manager gives a list of players he feels he could work with but he doesn’t do the rest. He has 0 say in cost and medical history. That’s on the club. If the club had of said, we get Mason for free in the summer, he would have had to except it. Move on.

it’s easy to blame him for everything. He was supposed to be a genius god like man who can take us to the top. Unfortunately pep wouldn’t win the league at this club. We’re not primed to do so.

I’ve literally just finished an article that’s come out today where SJR speaks about the culture at this club not being set up to win and how he wants world class in every aspect. Fantastic. Exactly what should have been done, always.

One thing I’ll stand by though is no manager can be world class without the network around him that allows him to do so. It’s like trying to box with your hands tied behind your back. We have been set up to fail for a long time and it looks like we now have people in the club that actually want to change that.