[LARulz]

Did Van Gaal get asked about why he took Falcao off?

 

[mazhar13]

The reason we played a slow game is mostly down to the horrible pith conditions. Whoever's tending the Britannia Stadium pitch was clearly given instructions to make it as bad as possible as Stoke know that we mostly play on the ground. That combined with the horrible weather made it difficult for us to play our game. I was so frustrated with the pitch as it made it tough for us to play our passing game. No wonder it was so easy for Stoke to defend against us.

Having said that, however, we were too static in this match. Rooney and van Persie looked off the pace. Mata obviously cannot handle the physicality of the Stoke players and needed better support in order to be more effective. What I also got annoyed with was that our midfielders were pushing back Stoke's midfielders, which means that our central defenders were supposed to push up. However, Evans rarely went forward and played too negatively, whilst when Jones went forward, our team was too static to do anything to break down Stoke City. Given the pitch and weather conditions along with the less proactive approach of the team, we only really looked like scoring from set pieces, which we did. However, even most of those were quite bad, and Stoke have a bad record with set pieces this season...

What really got me going was how, whenever our wing backs had the ball, we didn't have a central midfielder on their side support them. Young and Shaw were quite often double-teamed, and Rooney/Mata preferred to enter the box rather than outnumber the opposition! And why isn't one of the wide central defenders pushing up to support the players out wide as well? We have Carrick sitting back for a reason! Also, was the reason our players were so static and slow down to the fatigue they're experiencing? If not, then they have to have a good, hard look at themselves for playing so negatively. The only players really up for it today were Falcao, Herrera, Rafael, Mata and Jones. Everyone else looked unfit for one reason or another.

Defensively, I'm surprised that our players were so unsettled by the aggressive, rough, and physical style of the Stoke forwards. Jones and Smalling should be able to handle that, and they did, but they looked so nervous throughout the second half in particular. Evans, well, pretty much did what I expected when he faced physical players: fluster and make mistakes. He doesn't look as good as he used to against these sort of players.

I thought our players fully understood van Gaal's philosophy at this point. Now I think we're only 50% of the way there. Our players look like they're still learning how to play under van Gaal. The progress so far is reminiscent of a staircase: stall, then a big improvement, then stall again, then a big improvement, etc. We had many good spells in this 3-5-2 formation, so that really shouldn't be an issue for us. We just need to make sure to not be so negative in this formation; it's pretty much the 4-4-2 diamond except the defensive midfielder becomes a central defender with the wide central defenders expected to push up.

Injuries have played a part in disrupting our team's performances, but if our players fully understood van Gaal's system, style of play, and philosophy, the injuries and change in formation shouldn't be affecting us. The weather conditions and pitch condition shouldn't also be affecting our performances if the players knew how van Gaal really wants them to play.

 

[bosnian_red]

Did Van Gaal get asked about why he took Falcao off?

Probably due to fatigue and making sure he doesn't get injured after playing quite a bit in the last week which he would not be used to at all. Still recovering from a serious injury.

 

[mazhar13]

De Gea
Rafael. Jones. Smalling. Shaw
Valencia Herrera. Carrick. Di Maria
Rooney
Falcao

Replace Smalling with Rojo and Carrick with Blind, and you have my favourite team to play with on FIFA 15 .

To add on, I thought Falcao wasn't that great at the start. His touches were loose, and he struggled to keep hold of the ball. Things did improve in the second half, but I thought taking him off was not a bad idea as he played so frequently in the past couple of weeks. Putting Herrera in midfield and pushing Rooney up should have improved us, but our strikers were quite static and rarely made good runs with Stoke outnumbering us at the back as well.

What also really got to me was the number of failed through passes from our team. I'd definitely put that down to the horrible pitch and weather conditions. You look at Chelsea when they faced Stoke at the Britannia, and they also had a tough time playing there. However, they had the pace, aggression, and physicality to handle Stoke, unlike us, who only had aggression in our game.

 

[sunama]

Di Maria can't come back soon enough for me.

Di Maria wasn't playing particularly well when he got injured.
I am not expecting much from him. I honestly believe that we have over-paid for him.
He had some great games for us, against weak opposition, but as the quality of the opposition increased, he went anonymous and eventually got injured and hasnt been heard from since.
Blind is the guy I am waiting for. He will provide an outlet for our back 3 - instead of doing a back-pass, they will (forward) pass to blind instead and let him use his intelligence to decide how to push the ball forward.

BTW. Arsenal lost. Chelsea are losing. Liverpool drew. So, not a bad weekend for us. Man City needed Lampard to win - an inspired signing.

 

[sunama]

I meant 2008ish Ronaldo era stuff or 2000ish performances when we won the league by 18.

For me, year 2000 was our best ever team.
We had Beckham (who was an assist/crossing machine) and Yorke and Cole, who together were unbelievably good. Add Keane, Scholes and Giggs to the mix and you are looking at arguably the best premiership side ever seen. All in my opinion, of course.

For us to make any impact on the title race, we have got to buy some stronger players (who are not made of glass). Today Stoke got zero injuries. We picked up 1 injury (Young). This is quite typical.
During training, we are likely to pick up more injuries.
Unless we get a grip on the injury crisis, there is no way that we will beat Chelsea and Man City next year.
When we have a stable team who all trust each other, things will definitely improve.

 

[JustAFan]

Thrown away a chance to really get in the title race with these draws or at the very least out a strong hold on 3rd place

 

[Acole9]

We need to add some more aggression to our game not just in the midfield but the team as a whole. We were far too soft on Stoke at times.

 

[Revan]

Thrown away a chance to really get in the title race with these draws or at the very least out a strong hold on 3rd place

Yep. Considering that Chelsea lost 5 points in the last 2 games, we could have been near them if we didn't draw these two games.

But then again, wasn't ever expecting us to fight for the title this season.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Pretty good result all things considered. Winning at Stoke clearly isn't easy even for the best sides. now e need to kick on and open own up a gap because the rest of there pack has gotten pretty close to us in the table. Hopefully di Maria is back soon.

 

[ravi2]

Dislike the formation but can understand with injuries and players coming back.
Some good performances some poor.
Its evident that we're in need of investment. Evans needs to be replaced, Jones back up along with Rojo. Need to bring in a player to partner Smalling, Vertonghan maybe?
I hope Fletcher and Anderson move on and we bring in Strootman to beef up the midfield.
We need to add pace in wide areas, If we can't get Reus, Cuadrado would be sufficient and Depay in Summer.
We need to invest asap (and get some contracts signed up) and build a team now ready for next season and use the summer to rectify any weak spots in the team. I don't want to hear anymore of this process S*** at the beginning of next season bedding in new player, I want to see us hit the ground running.

Agreed, our lack of pace up front is severely hampering our play.
We have 1st class strikers who aren't getting the service they deserve.

Depay, Cuadrado....someone!

 

[Burrow]

I dont think it was that bad. We controlled the game a part from set pieces, though we're not creating alot. Still unbeaten though, and a few easier fixtures coming up. And we've gained points compared to the top of the table, so not everything is all that negative.

 

[Cee90]

Thrown away a chance to really get in the title race with these draws or at the very least out a strong hold on 3rd place

Yep, this is why it makes it that extra bit annoying for me.

If we had taken our chances against Spurs, I wouldn't have minded so much about the draw against Stoke.

We've gotta beat City/Chelsea and hope they drop more points along the way, although I doubt we will mount a serious title challenge this season.

 

[The Hacker]

We were poor. Defence was as bad as they have been all season - am I the only one that thinks Jones is a liability? Evans was not good today, ashley didn't work on the right, our midfield were almost non existent, so the forwards were living off scraps.

Each time the back 3 passed it between them I had heart palpitations!

we do have injuries, blind and Di Maria would have done well today, but our backups aren't anywhere near as good to be backups.

The substitutions were odd - Adnaan isn't a defending winger and that left us exposed on the left.

The formation is key though. Play 4 at the back, have 1 in front of them, then 2 or 3 in front of him with the two up front. That would be a bit more fluid.

 

[Sultan]

United don't deserve winning the Premiership on these sort of performances.

 

[noodlehair]

We shouldn't be playing with one midfielder if we're going to insist on playing slow possession football in every single game regardless of what the opponent is up to. It's really dumb and there's barely been an away game all season where it's not slapped us in the face. In fact, there hasn't been full stop.

Also didn't get the point in moving Young to the right where he's always far less effective. Second time we've done this in recent weeks when Rafael has been readily available.

Also didn't get taking off Falcao, or any of the subs really barring the injury...but it's the same every week. He was going to bring Wilson on before Young pulled up...take off your only effective striker on, then a few minutes later bring on another striker because the one you left on hasn't been doing anything all game.

Every single game is baffling. Why did we buy loads of unnecessary attacking players an the expense of having a midfield, if the idea is to attack as little as possible whilst poncing about with the ball in the middle of the pitch?

 

[nick2004]

You guys are too negative!

Chelsea lost at Spurs. We didn't but we complained a lot. (And we were unlucky having a goal disallowed and at least 4 great chances.)

Arsenal lost at Southampton.

Liverpool drew at home with Leicester.

We still have major players out due to injury, others that just came back from injury and are not 100% yet. We have played 3 games in 6 days. It is hard to expect us to be fine tuned under these circumstances. And we still did better than Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

[nick2004]

PS. I predicted us winning 0-3 and I am disappointed by the result. But hey! we can't win every game. Unbeaten for 10 games is a good thing! If we had done better in August we'd now be fighting for the top spot.

 

[Litch]

Tough game and one we could easily have lost. The conditions were terrible and more suited to Stoke style of play. Man City and Chelsea will also draw games they should have won and us not competing for the league is down to the first 10 games or so. For me a world class Felliani type player and an experienced world class CB and RB, we would have the strongest squad in the league that could also challenge in Europe.

 

[The United Irishman]

The windy condition doesn't help.

Fellaini would be useful here with the constant long balls & rough housing from Stoke.

Januzaj shows us why he isn't getting more chances.

We are in no way capable of challenging for the title this year.

That's exactly what I thought as well. He had the ball at the corner flag at the end of the game, lost the ball easily causing Stoke to counter and nearly punish us...In fact any time he gets on he's becoming a master at losing the ball and making poor decisions, I hope he can turn his form around for his own sake as he was so exciting to watch last season.

 

[Litch]

That's exactly what I thought as well. He had the ball at the corner flag at the end of the game, lost the ball easily causing Stoke to counter and nearly punish us...In fact any time he gets on he's becoming a master at losing the ball and making poor decisions, I hope he can turn his form around for his own sake as he was so exciting to watch last season.

Just a confidence thing. I've seen him in the reserves and although it's a different level, he's been superb. He'll be better for it as there's no doubt in my mind, he'll be a top draw player. Please let's not do a Pogba on him, and he comes back to bite in a couple of years.

 

[soapythecat]

You guys are too negative!

Chelsea lost at Spurs. We didn't but we complained a lot. (And we were unlucky having a goal disallowed and at least 4 great chances.)

Arsenal lost at Southampton.

Liverpool drew at home with Leicester.

We still have major players out due to injury, others that just came back from injury and are not 100% yet. We have played 3 games in 6 days. It is hard to expect us to be fine tuned under these circumstances. And we still did better than Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool.

I don't think people are disagreeing with the points you make, it's the mediocre football that is being played in the process that is what many are discussing.

Happy to be 3rd but by god, it's bloody ugly.

 

[thelemon]

Smalling was solid, Shaw was alright but didn't seem fit for 90 minutes, the rest of the team was garbage.

Rafael was pretty good.

 

[thelemon]

Subs were fine, team was wrong...
De Gea
Jones - Smalling - McNair
Rafael - Herrera - Carrick - Young
Rooney
van Persie - Falcao

 

[royboy16]

Sorry couldnt resist editing a RAWK post.
Thankfully Im not being serious..
Lots of positives to take from that match:

1. We didn't lose. 1 point thank you very much!
2. A Colombian scored a cracker.
3. All of LVG's ' substitutions made a difference. Well, Januzaj didn't do much, but he didn't have a lot of time. He did nearly win a header though. So there's that.
4. Evans didn't have a bad game.
5. Jones headed a ball.
6. De Gea caught crosses.

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Gannicus]

Sorry couldnt resist editing a RAWK post.
Thankfully Im not being serious..
Lots of positives to take from that match:

1. We didn't lose. 1 point thank you very much!
2. A Colombian scored a cracker.
3. All of LVG's ' substitutions made a difference. Well, Januzaj didn't do much, but he didn't have a lot of time. He did nearly win a header though. So there's that.
4. Evans didn't have a bad game.
5. Jones headed a ball.
6. De Gea caught crosses.

Onwards and upwards!

Evans had a bad game. Jonny was a bad boy, in the traditional sense of the term.

 

[jojojo]

I was having trouble getting my head round what our style is supposed to be. It's clear we like to pass it around for a while, but then we punt it 50 yards forwards presumably towards a Fellaini who is isn't playing or in the hopes of a lucky error by Shawcross and co who know exactly how that approach works.

Where's the pass and move stuff? Where are the players who can accelerate with the ball? I think the answer is still partly in the formation, the defence have to punt the ball forward because there's no real connection to the forwards. Injuries aren't helping, and even our fit ones aren't fit to play 90. Even so, I can't understand the approach that starts with us caring for possession, cycling the ball around for a few passes but ends with thumping it in the general direction of the Stoke area.

I don't mind the result, and I'm going to blame the performance on mental/physical tiredness and I'm going to blame that on the ongoing injuries. I hope that's all there is to it.

 

[FujiVice]

Come of you miserable gets. We closed the gap to 9 points today. Get the jaffa cakes on ice. We're coming for that title.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Neither team did enough to win the game, and - at the end of the day - a point, away from home, in horrible conditions, when we went a goal down in the first minute... isn't too bad. Forwards and Vertical.

 

[RedPnutz]

A terribly boring match, no doubt. Found my attention wandering at times really.

But I thought it was a really decent result. Our problem does seem to be a lack of pace and players who have confidence to take players on. Compounded by the fact that our defenders seem to be really lacking in confidence when on the ball.

Other than that, Stoke was always going to be a difficult game. Didn't Crouch and Shawcross also mention that the wind made it really hard for them to play their usual game? I mean, that was probably why the ball was allowed to bounce so much. The constant refrain "But can he do it on a cold tuesday night at Stoke", may be a running joke but it originates from some measure of truth.

Aston Villa was the only game I felt we should have won. Against Chelsea, Spurs have shown that they are no mugs. Players are out of sorts because of fatigue. With many players coming in and out of injury and illness you have the entire in varying stages of recovery, rehabilitation, match fitness and wavelengths. The entire fluidity and tempo will suffer.

People keep complaining about the 3-5-2. What should we have done then? 4-4-2? So maybe Rafael would have been in then, but would you want to pit Rafael against the height of stoke? You'd still have the pick of Young, Carrick, Rooney and Mata in mid-field and that doesn't seem like much more of an improvement anyway. Maybe Januzaj would start but on present showing and the fact he's just come back from illness, Mata is more reasonably preferred. We don't have fast wingers so not much help there either. Playing the diamond seems not too different to what we did today.

I think we missed Fellaini today, it was the sort of game he would have done well. I don't see the problem with LVG's subs as well. Shaw was looking knackered and this was only his 2nd match back from injury. People are crying out of pace and penetration and Herrera and Januzaj were brought in to provide that. I don't think LVG told Januzaj to put in shit crosses. We were unlucky once again with Young getting an injury - I believe that if Young's injury did not force our hand, we might have put in Wilson to stretch the defence. In the last 10min, you'd have Wilson, Herrera and Janazaj adding a bit more penetration.

if not Falcao, who else would you remove? Mata - no because he remains the one most likely to make a defence-splitting pass. Rooney - no because aside from lacking the pace of januzaj and maybe the passing of herrera, he is much better at many other aspects and is likely of getting you a goal. RVP - No because RVP looked more like scoring than Falcao. On the whole, removing Falcao was the reasonable thing to do.

Overall a boring spectacle but a decent result. Gotta look at the big picture here. At the start of the season, we knew we had an unbalanced team with several deficiencies. Everyone was saying top 4 would be a satisfactory outcome. Then we had and are still having the whole slew of injuries.

It was doom and gloom after Leicester and roses and champagne after Hull. The truth is somewhere in the middle, that we are slowing making progress whilst minimising the impact of multiple injuries and regaining the confidence of the team.

 

[nick2004]

I don't think people are disagreeing with the points you make, it's the mediocre football that is being played in the process that is what many are discussing.

Happy to be 3rd but by god, it's bloody ugly.

I agree that we don't play very well at the moment. However, my fear with Van Gaal was the opposite: that we'd try to play fancy football no matter what the results are. So, I am happy with 3rd place and I am sure that we are going to improve.

 

[POF]

Games like this I HATE the system. How we don't stick an extra midfielder or attacker against Stoke is baffling.

All their chances came from our mistakes. Most of them mistakes disappear once Evans is rightly dropped.

All of their chances came from set pieces which is why United needed 3 centre backs.

It was a disappointing performance overall but the conditions made it a real physical battle. In the circumstances a draw wasn't a bad result. Herrera was excellent when he came on. With Young out I think a return to a back 4 is likely. Whether a midfield 4 of Carrick, Herrera, Mata and Rooney is good enough defensively I am not sure.

I really think that is the challenge for this United team. Finding a midfield diamond capable of playing the scintillating attacking football from earlier in the season but with enough balance to protect the back 4.

 

[GBBQ]

Really horrible match to watch while nursing a hangover. Stoke did well at stifling United and I think ADM could have had a big impact had he been fit to play. I think we're making huge progress under LVG and we're making fewer mistakes. I reckon we're still proably 3 or 4 first team signings (and probably a couple of better substitue options) away from LVG's vision of the required quality to compete but we have vastly improved on last season's fiasco so its all heading in the right direction.

Still though, we could have closed the gap on Chelsea by 5 points with a bit more ruthlessness.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

I've only just watched the game, it wasn't great but a draw is better then a defeat obviously, Yeovil on sunday which should give us a chance to rest a few players and then we have a whole week off!

 

[Bilbo]

Performance aside, it was a pretty good point for us. Its difficult to imagine a more difficult occasion in which to play them, considering the conditions and starting a goal down.

 

[SoCross]

Bringing Falcao off and Young's injury was a turning point for me. Thought we were beginning to slowly turn the screw.

Might have been better to have shunt Rafael to the left and Jones to the right and bring one of the young CBs on than have Januzaj come on to play LWB.

Pluses for me was Falcao; guy looks like he is beginning to settle. Amazing movement and holdup play.

 

[Bilbo]

Falcao's performance highlighted what we are not getting enough of from Van Persie this season. I'd like to see him upfront with Rooney at some stage.

 

[poisson]

Performance aside, it was a pretty good point for us. Its difficult to imagine a more difficult occasion in which to play them, considering the conditions and starting a goal down.

Agreed - this same stoke side have beaten arsenal and City!! Spurs, who we drew with, put 5 past the so called best defense in the league.

Just offering a little persepective here. The 1 result which was well and truly shit was the draw with 10 men villa!!!

 

[Yorkeontop]

Just get Fellaini, Herrera and Carrick out there.

 

[marlowe78]

Considering that it was a clear handball by Smalling, we should've lost. We are still lacking a final ball to our strikers and the lack of pace is leaving them without any decent amount of service. I think LVG wants us to play with a fast counterattack but without Di Maria, none of our main ball carriers, except maybe Herrera, is able to do this consistently.

We were clearly hindered by the wind and our players looked visibly tired in the last 20-25 minutes. I understand that Falcao is still working towards being fit but I was still disappointed he was taken off, seeing that he gave us some needed energy up front. RVP was anonymous, his worst performance in a while. Mata put a good effort in but he is so lacking physically that every time Stoke put numbers in front of him, he had to pull up and our attack fell apart.

Our defenders seem to be coping with the formation better than when they first started, as they looked more comfortable with the ball and were not caught out of position as frequently. Evans, however, was again by far the poorest of the three defenders, just by the lack of authority in which he fields his position. While he did make some decent balls through, he almost completely folded again in a 1 v. 1 situation with Diouf that could've cost us the game. Smalling, Jones, and Evans were all poor for the Stoke goal but functioned well as a unit.

Most encouraging sign was that we came back again after falling behind, which didn't happen often enough last season.