[Sandikan]

I only have 3 more posts before I reach my limit in the mains however, I will make it short and sweet. I am in total agreement with you about the 2nd goal where they did have a great deal of fortune. This happens in a lot of matches, either for us, or for the other teams that are in the top 6. What I don't like is the idea that "we could have beaten them easily because they were rubbish."

This goes without saying from the 1st whistle until around the 15th minute. Once they had those two scares and survived, it was clear that they thought it would be their night so, why not try and win the game. As you know, you don't need 30 chances to win a game. They exerted enough pressure in the midfield to actually dominate the likes of Scott, Fred and Paul. So much so, that they were constantly coming at us at will. Why? Well, this is down to the midfield in general. A match can be won or lost in the midfield, and we most certainly lost it. Once the midfield was dominated, it gave added impetus to the Wolves attack to try and do as much damage as they possibly can.

In short, perhaps it is about time (even if we love our beloved Manchester United) that we give the other team credit for fighting back in adversity, rather than criticising our own capacity to play the game. We fought back against PSG, Wolves fought back against us and that is football in general. You just have to give credit where it is due.

I don't disagree by any means pal.
Wolves are a good team this year. They've had some great results against the best, and we'd already been played off the pitch in the cup, and just about got a draw at home.

Any sign they might have one eye on the cup was wide of the mark too.

I did think we should have been a couple up though, and would have seen it home from there, and then we'd have avoided all the inquests later!

At the end of the day, we weren't that bad, and we were massively hampered by the sending off. Without that I don't necessarily think we'd have lost at all.

However, maybe it's the classic "blessing in disguise" shakeup that we need to properly strengthen In the summer, as we have some glaring weaknesses.

 

[Pavl3n]

Don’t know why you’d go for a keeper in exchange. I’d go for Kroos.

I was just thinking about like for like swap and also if Real buy De Gea they would end up with 4 goalkeepers, 3 of which are good enough to be starters. They'll need rid of one at least.
But yes, there are probably better options if there is a players swap - Kroos (as you said) and Varane on top of my head.

 

[DSG]

Again, this is something I see over and over again. Isn't it just possible that they were better than us once they got into their stride? It is not beyond the realms of impossibility, I mean, they beat us before in the F.A Cup so, it was always going to be a close match. Further to that, if it hadn't been for DeGea towards the end, we could have conceded another 2 goals just as easily as Wolves could have done when Lukaku/Lingard missed their chances.

With that being said, you could say that we were lucky against PSG, when not only did their defender give Lukaku an assist, but Buffon completely fluffed his lines and gave another gift to Lukaku. Or, if Kimbempe had kept his arms to his sides, we would have been out of the Champions league. Every team has their fair share of luck, whether it is teams against us, or indeed ourselves against others i.e. the goal by Spurs when Roy Carroll was beaten, yet we had a massive slice of luck and if goal-line technology had been in at that time, Spurs wouldn't have moaned as much. In short, luck or no luck, it is how much the team wants to win that counts and Wolverhampton Wanderers, after a pretty shaky 15 minutes showed that they wanted it more than we did.

Not sure what your point here is.... The fact that the Wolves were gifted the first goal by an errant touch IS lucky. The own goal was caused by a ball into a dangerous area, but we probably should have dealt with it, and the defender putting it into the back of the net was clumsy. Up until the Wolves first goal, we completely controlled the game. The announcers in the booth noticed our shoulders slumped and commented on it. Fred, who looked like Busquets in the first 20 min, lost all confidence and had several bad touches after that point.

Yes, you are probably right, we WERE lucky in the PSG second leg. Never said we weren’t.

My point is that bad luck does happen on the football field, and it takes character, grit and a certain mentality to overcome it. We don’t have that in this squad. Put aside the fact that Fred cost us 50m. I just don’t see Matic or Herrera making the same mistake. And Fred’s touch and passing has been horrendous all season long. It’s like we have only Brazilian midfielder in football history who has poor technical skills.

But where was the response? Instead of feeling bad, or feeling the pressure, or a loss of confidence, we have to come out mad, angry, disgusted that we gave our lead up. Instead, we played like we didn’t want to lose, instead of playing like we wanted to win. And we won’t win the league again until we regain that confident mentality. I think it’s the players, personally, and I believe we need to bring in players that are hungry and brave and ship out those that are cowards and shrink when under pressure.

One more thing. The Wolves are a good team. It’s a tough place to play. But if we want to win trophies, we have to win that match. It’s that simple.

 

[Cladistics_Fan]

Not sure what your point here is.... The fact that the Wolves were gifted the first goal by an errant touch IS lucky. The own goal was caused by a ball into a dangerous area, but we probably should have dealt with it, and the defender putting it into the back of the net was clumsy. Up until the Wolves first goal, we completely controlled the game. The announcers in the booth noticed our shoulders slumped and commented on it. Fred, who looked like Busquets in the first 20 min, lost all confidence and had several bad touches after that point.

Yes, you are probably right, we WERE lucky in the PSG second leg. Never said we weren’t.

My point is that bad luck does happen on the football field, and it takes character, grit and a certain mentality to overcome it. We don’t have that in this squad. Put aside the fact that Fred cost us 50m. I just don’t see Matic or Herrera making the same mistake. And Fred’s touch and passing has been horrendous all season long. It’s like we have only Brazilian midfielder in football history who has poor technical skills.

But where was the response? Instead of feeling bad, or feeling the pressure, or a loss of confidence, we have to come out mad, angry, disgusted that we gave our lead up. Instead, we played like we didn’t want to lose, instead of playing like we wanted to win. And we won’t win the league again until we regain that confident mentality. I think it’s the players, personally, and I believe we need to bring in players that are hungry and brave and ship out those that are cowards and shrink when under pressure.

One more thing. The Wolves are a good team. It’s a tough place to play. But if we want to win trophies, we have to win that match. It’s that simple.

My point has clearly been made in my response to @Sandikan. I will just repeat myself but at the same time, I do not fancy doing any more long posts. If body parts could be up for murder, my shoulder will be going to the electric chair soon. Back on topic, it wasn't so much the game in general, it is the tone that is used to discredit the performance of a resilient Wolves side. They could have been 3 goals down in the first 15 minutes but they didn't let their heads drop. However, we let one goal in, and our game plan was thrown out of the window. We lost our shape, we lost the rythym that we had in the first 15 minutes just because of a accident. We should have just chalked it down to experience and then gone in search for another goal. However, it didn't work out like that.

So, leaving aside the remarks I made about PSG etc, the major point was simply about giving credit to the opposition who could have and should have folded when we had our chances to score. They didn't and they won. I cannot say more fairer than that. It reminded me of the Sir Alex Ferguson sides of old with the "never say die", attitude.

 

[Member 113277]

He was at fault in the way that if he doesn't play that ball, Fred doesn't have the opportunity to lose it, and we therefore don't concede.

Yes, a 50m midfielder should be able to take a ball to feet, but the risk v benefit is just too high. As it was with Perreira not too long ago.

Totally agree, this needs coaching - the incident with Fred was pretty much a re-run of the Pereira incident.

Far from being an attack on DDG, who is one of our stalwarts, I'm just recognising that attention to detail is the difference between winning trophies and not.

The other disappointing aspect for me, was that Fred had started well (e.g. assisting McTominay) and then went into his shell after the Wolves goal - shame, if he'd had a good 90 mins, it could have done his confidence a world of good.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Can't believe people are blaming De Gea for the first goal. If as a team we have to feel wary of passing to a player in as much space as Fred was, then we are going to achieve nothing and may as well collectively decide that hoof-ball is the way to go. I hope Ole is encouraging the players to make those passes and demanding them to deal with receiving them.

 

[Stacks]

Can't believe people are blaming De Gea for the first goal. If as a team we have to feel wary of passing to a player in as much space as Fred was, then we are going to achieve nothing and may as well collectively decide that hoof-ball is the way to go. I hope Ole is encouraging the players to make those passes and demanding them to deal with receiving them.

Agreed. These lads are playing for Man Utd for Christ sake

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Agreed. These lads are playing for Man Utd for Christ sake

If anything, we constantly refuse to play passes we should be because as a team we are afraid of the recipient being able to retain possession. I really hope Ole encourages these things as Pep and Klopp have. I don't feel we'll ever become a top team leaning towards percentage football as we've begun to do in recent weeks.

 

[Member 113277]

Can't believe people are blaming De Gea for the first goal. If as a team we have to feel wary of passing to a player in as much space as Fred was, then we are going to achieve nothing and may as well collectively decide that hoof-ball is the way to go. I hope Ole is encouraging the players to make those passes and demanding them to deal with receiving them.

Agreed. These lads are playing for Man Utd for Christ sake

If anything, we constantly refuse to play passes we should be because as a team we are afraid of the recipient being able to retain possession. I really hope Ole encourages these things as Pep and Klopp have. I don't feel we'll ever become a top team leaning towards percentage football as we've begun to do in recent weeks.

It's not about blaming the players, blame has little upside. It's about learning and that requires openness - now we don't have access to Carrington and so have no idea about what OGS says to the players, but from my perspective, doing the same thing multiple times and expecting a different outcome is not wise.

The EPL grounds are slippery when wet and I see little upside in the particular throw that has cost us two goals - maybe our players should be able to handle any pass, but obviously some cannot - there are now two pieces of evidence for that.

By the way, the space around Fred in the sill picture is illusory, watch it in real time - Wolves press hard and fast - that throw is not a good percentage from a benefit/risk angle.

 

[Name Changed]

As soon as I saw the teams I thought Wolves were going to win. Our midfield was so weak in comparison. I made a fair few quid in betting wolves to win 2 1, and then I backed them again at 11/4 whilst at 1 1 . There was only going to be one winner at that stage.

 

[haram]

Can't believe people are blaming De Gea for the first goal. If as a team we have to feel wary of passing to a player in as much space as Fred was, then we are going to achieve nothing and may as well collectively decide that hoof-ball is the way to go. I hope Ole is encouraging the players to make those passes and demanding them to deal with receiving them.

Which is a problem if they cannot actually do it...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Which is a problem if they cannot actually do it...

They can and must be encouraged to do it better.

 

[haram]

They can and must be encouraged to do it better.

They can at what quality and at what level? Maybe if you want to finish 2nd and 3rd every year.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They can at what quality and at what level? Maybe if you want to finish 2nd and 3rd every year.

That's how you improve. Not by being cowardly. 2nd and 3rd every year would be a step in the right direction as long as we're improving.

 

[haram]

That's how you improve. Not by being cowardly. 2nd and 3rd every year would be a step in the right direction as long as we're improving.

Yeah we finished 2nd last year. These players cannot go any further.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah we finished 2nd last year. These players cannot go any further.

I don't call doing something once and failing miserably next time consistent.

Maybe it's the best this team could do in the past but hopefully under better management the club will do better in the future. Like every manager Ole will be allowed to build his team.

 

[haram]

I don't call doing something once and failing miserably next time consistent.

Maybe it's the best this team could do in the past but hopefully under better management the club will do better in the future. Like every manager Ole will be allowed to build his team.

Except the last manager wasn't allowed to really keep it going this summer. I'll leave it alone because I know it becomes a sensitive topic on here and it's off topic anyway.

 

[Stacks]

It's not about blaming the players, blame has little upside. It's about learning and that requires openness - now we don't have access to Carrington and so have no idea about what OGS says to the players, but from my perspective, doing the same thing multiple times and expecting a different outcome is not wise.

The EPL grounds are slippery when wet and I see little upside in the particular throw that has cost us two goals - maybe our players should be able to handle any pass, but obviously some cannot - there are now two pieces of evidence for that.

By the way, the space around Fred in the sill picture is illusory, watch it in real time - Wolves press hard and fast - that throw is not a good percentage from a benefit/risk angle.

If you are going to be a Manchester United player, you ar3 going to need to possess the quality to deal with pressure from opposition players. We need to become ruthless like Pep who gets mad when players simply misplace a pass. Keano was the same. We have higher standards to be a top side. Our fans need to decide if United should become a top competitor or Wolves

 

[Buster15]

If anything, we constantly refuse to play passes we should be because as a team we are afraid of the recipient being able to retain possession. I really hope Ole encourages these things as Pep and Klopp have. I don't feel we'll ever become a top team leaning towards percentage football as we've begun to do in recent weeks.

We are afraid of the recipient retaining possesion for the very simple reason that we don't support the man with the ball anything like well enough.

 

[Member 113277]

If you are going to be a Manchester United player, you ar3 going to need to possess the quality to deal with pressure from opposition players. We need to become ruthless like Pep who gets mad when players simply misplace a pass. Keano was the same. We have higher standards to be a top side. Our fans need to decide if United should become a top competitor or Wolves

Don't disagree with you at all. But if we want 4th, this season, we need to be pragmatic.

 

[Stacks]

Don't disagree with you at all. But if we want 4th, this season, we need to be pragmatic.

True but at the same time we need to educate players of the standards necessary to be at Man Utd going forwards. It's not about tomorrow, they need to be ready now.

 

[Robertd0803]

Id love Neves at United.

 

[Sandikan]

Totally agree, this needs coaching - the incident with Fred was pretty much a re-run of the Pereira incident.

Far from being an attack on DDG, who is one of our stalwarts, I'm just recognising that attention to detail is the difference between winning trophies and not.

The other disappointing aspect for me, was that Fred had started well (e.g. assisting McTominay) and then went into his shell after the Wolves goal - shame, if he'd had a good 90 mins, it could have done his confidence a world of good.

About 70million levels lower in quality, but I played a5 aside game in London in Brazilian rainforest conditions a few years ago.
Our keeper repeatedly passed to someone in the middle of the goal, and they often lost it and we conceded. When he stopped doing it, and passed wide, we stopped the threat.

If we could work that out at the lowest level, I can't believe the United boys still think that's a good strategy.

There's been a few where De Gea has underhit it, and we've lost possession 20yards nearer the half way line, that's even worse, but the ball to Fred just invited unnecessary trouble.

 

[Stacks]

About 70million levels lower in quality, but I played a5 aside game in London in Brazilian rainforest conditions a few years ago.
Our keeper repeatedly passed to someone in the middle of the goal, and they often lost it and we conceded. When he stopped doing it, and passed wide, we stopped the threat.

If we could work that out at the lowest level, I can't believe the United boys still think that's a good strategy.

There's been a few where De Gea has underhit it, and we've lost possession 20yards nearer the half way line, that's even worse, but the ball to Fred just invited unnecessary trouble.

That's because you are low level players. If football is your PROFESSION and you have played it daily for a decade and are now good enough to be paid for people to come and watch you play, you must be comfortable receiving the ball anyway. Do you not remember why Barca used to tear teams apart? It's because they didn't rely on the obvious pass and would happily give the ball to a man that is marked and play off him. That's how you create space at the very top level. My Dad used to coach me as a kid and even he was making a case that all us kids need to be comfortable receiving the ball in all areas of the pitch including whilst under pressure so you draw the man in and play off him. At pro EPL level this is seriously sub standard talk. Being afraid to receive the ball in the middle of the defence......

 

[Member 113277]

About 70million levels lower in quality, but I played a5 aside game in London in Brazilian rainforest conditions a few years ago.
Our keeper repeatedly passed to someone in the middle of the goal, and they often lost it and we conceded. When he stopped doing it, and passed wide, we stopped the threat.

If we could work that out at the lowest level, I can't believe the United boys still think that's a good strategy.

There's been a few where De Gea has underhit it, and we've lost possession 20yards nearer the half way line, that's even worse, but the ball to Fred just invited unnecessary trouble.

+1 :-)

 

[Member 113277]

That's because you are low level players. If football is your PROFESSION and you have played it daily for a decade and are now good enough to be paid for people to come and watch you play, you must be comfortable receiving the ball anyway. Do you not remember why Barca used to tear teams apart? It's because they didn't rely on the obvious pass and would happily give the ball to a man that is marked and play off him. That's how you create space at the very top level. My Dad used to coach me as a kid and even he was making a case that all us kids need to be comfortable receiving the ball in all areas of the pitch including whilst under pressure so you draw the man in and play off him. At pro EPL level this is seriously sub standard talk. Being afraid to receive the ball in the middle of the defence......

As an aspiration and future standard, I agree entirely with what you are saying; given that we are 6th, with 6 games left and the potential implications (financial and otherwise) for making good summer signings, I couldn't disagree more.