[FerociousCorgis]

I agree completely with your first para, but split the blame for the equaliser between De Gea and Fred. Don't forget that De Gea threw the ball to Pereira in a similar position, which resulted in a goal.

Yes, Fred should have done better, but it just doesn't make sense to do the same thing twice and expect a different result (doffs cap to Einstein).

plenty of space. Split blame? FFS

 

[WR10]

Watched most of the game again. How fecking brilliant is Moutinho? Absolutely dominated the game and set the tempo. He looked like he was plucked right out of the midfield of a 2008/9 barcelona team. Brilliant little fecker he is.

 

[F miah]

Lets not push the panic buttons just yet, 3 months ago we was 11 points of top four.

Like Ole said we need 15 points out of last six games but I think we need 16 points.

 

[Cantonaaa!]

Sums it up and gives you a good laugh

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[Moriarty]

Not necessarily De Gea. But with him being easily available (refusing to extend), there is a good opportunity for easy negotiation. And he is a high profile and Spain No 1 (despite being average for the NT)

Isn't De Gea holding out for a much higher wage? If money is the only issue with him, then surely we can reach an agreement. It's infuriating the way this has turned out. I know you can't believe half of what you read in the papers but given De Gea's standing with the club, somewhere close to parity with Sanchez is not unreasonable. Anyway, we've made a rod for our own backs here.

 

[Sandikan]

plenty of space. Split blame? FFS

It was definitely much more Fred's fault, as he's taken a ball with loads of room there.

But I wish De Gea wouldn't play those central balls out like that.
If you look at Fred, what's he actually meant to do with that? He can't go to Lindelöf, back to the keeper is risky, and it's optimistic to think he's going to do a blind turn, then tip it to the player wide right.

 

[Danillaco]

We weren't as bad as people are making it to be. We started strong and should've had two or three. But again we pay for not being clinical.

Wolves had given little trouble until Fred poor first touch, but we fell the hit hard.

Not only that Young should hang his head for the sheer stupidity of those yellows, and wrecking our chances.

Oh, and how clumsy is Smalling? Jayzus Christ.

We should've have been better in front of goal, if we had taken our chances, Wolves wouldn't be in the game again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sums it up and gives you a good laugh

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That clip just makes me even more pissed off at De Gea not even attempting to compete for a ball that bounced twice inside the six yard box. Fecking pussy.

 

[Buster15]

Football is also a psychological game. The feel good bounce after replacing the Miserable One ended when we got our first defeat. That brought back the same old mindset, happiness and confidence dipped, as did form, defeat after defeat and getting knocked out of the FA Cup and thus our only realistic chance of silverware, setting us back to where we were. Some players are weaker mentally than others l, looking at you Pogba, and due to the team being built around him, that spreads like a virus. Talent is not enough to have a team built around you, mentality and consistency is also very important. I don't see any progress in Pogba in these areas.

He's not the only one to get uptight, down or nervous, Martial, Fred, Smalling, Lindelof, Young and Lukaku to name a few are also very unstable. We need a team of winners and that means replacing some or all of these with mentally strong and consistent players, vital if we are to win the league.

I can readily agree with all of this.
You are absolutely right that football skills are not enough and mental strength, character and attitude are of prime importance.

We all agree that we have no natural leaders in the team. No one who when things are not going well will roll up their sleeves and drive the rest on inspire others.
Certainly Ashley Young can not do that.

SAF knew how important leaders on the pitch were. He had plenty of them.
These qualities must be part of the summer transfer policy.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

It was definitely much more Fred's fault, as he's taken a ball with loads of room there.

But I wish De Gea wouldn't play those central balls out like that.
If you look at Fred, what's he actually meant to do with that? He can't go to Lindelöf, back to the keeper is risky, and it's optimistic to think he's going to do a blind turn, then tip it to the player wide right.

people talk about wanting DDG to play out from the back, and this is a perfect pass to do that with. Fred can easily turn and play it to whoever is to the left of the ref, or depending on the angle the guy coming down to close he prob has mctominay moving open as well, or he could drive into the empty space to the left of the player closing down, or if whoever is top right continues to check to the ball he has him open. Enough options for you?

 

[Moriarty]

That clip just makes me even more pissed off at De Gea not even attempting to compete for a ball that bounced twice inside the six yard box. Fecking pussy.

You don't often see keepers diving into the melee very often these days. Someone like Schmeichel would just claim that and not worry about who got knocked out of the way.

 

[Cladistics_Fan]

We weren't as bad as people are making it to be. We started strong and should've had two or three. But again we pay for not being clinical.

Wolves had given little trouble until Fred poor first touch, but we fell the hit hard.

Not only that Young should hang his head for the sheer stupidity of those yellows, and wrecking our chances.

Oh, and how clumsy is Smalling? Jayzus Christ.

We should've have been better in front of goal, if we had taken our chances, Wolves wouldn't be in the game again.

I really have to beg to differ @Danillaco. We were good, very good in fact for the first 15 minutes or so, and the fact that we hit them from the get go, Wolves were never that well organised. Only once they got their bearings right, they then began to play the game exactly as they did when they played us in the FA Cup. That is not the fault of Manchester United, it is just that credit needs to be given to the opposition for not losing their heads when they could have been 3 goals down in the first 15 minutes.

Whilst I was watching the game, I couldn't help but read the match day thread, and Ashley Young was getting abused from around the 15th minute mark, or perhaps earlier, I cannot remember. However, what I do know is that if we are capable of recognising the weak link in the team, then the opposition manager will do his best to try and get that information to his own side; to persist in going against the weakest link. However, we didn't just have one, we had a couple more; Pogba and perhaps Smalling. Pogba was never really in the game after the 15th minute, and we felt as though we were playing with a team of 10 players. Again, Wolverhampton Wanderers used their intelligence to try and keep Pogba quiet and they succeeded. So, we fielded a team of 11 players; one of whom was either hoofing the ball and misplacing passes or, another who just went missing for 90 minutes.

That is 2 players down already (Young getting sent off didn't really help the situation) so, what better way for Wolves to try and go for the jugular. If I remember correctly, teams who have had a player sent off usually defend better as a unit. This was clearly not the case when Wolves could have added a couple of own goals to the already increasing total. That is how bad we were, but let us not forget that Wolves survived the opening 15 minutes then, they executed their own plan to play the game to perfection. That is the way the cookie crumbles.

For you last sentence, we could use many other conditionals i.e. Bayern Munich fans would be saying something like "If only Jancker hadn't hit the crossbar in the champions league final, Manchester United would not be in the game again." Or PSG fans with their "if only Kehrer or Buffon hadn't gifted those goals to Lukaku, we would be playing Barcelona instead of Manchester United. We live in a real world and not in a world based on conditionals I'm afraid.

 

[Okey]

Really bad loss that, just magnified by the rest of the midweek results. Squeaky bum time. At least the team have 8 days before they play again. Should be enough to shake off the rust and give the run in a right go. The fact that Ole has us in this position at all remains a minor miracle. We shouldn't forget that...

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Really bad loss that, just magnified by the rest of the midweek results. Squeaky bum time. At least the team have 8 days before they play again. Should be enough to shake off the rust and give the run in a right go. The fact that Ole has us in this position at all remains a minor miracle. We shouldn't forget that...

I just hope he has them in working on things, not let them swan off on holiday.

 

[Sandikan]

people talk about wanting DDG to play out from the back, and this is a perfect pass to do that with. Fred can easily turn and play it to whoever is to the left of the ref, or depending on the angle the guy coming down to close he prob has mctominay moving open as well, or he could drive into the empty space to the left of the player closing down, or if whoever is top right continues to check to the ball he has him open. Enough options for you?

Well he obviously couldn't easily do any of that could he.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Think the M.E.N. need to employ someone who can count.

07:12
Premier League table
United are down to fifth after Chelsea won last night.

 

[Member 113277]

It was definitely much more Fred's fault, as he's taken a ball with loads of room there.

But I wish De Gea wouldn't play those central balls out like that.
If you look at Fred, what's he actually meant to do with that? He can't go to Lindelöf, back to the keeper is risky, and it's optimistic to think he's going to do a blind turn, then tip it to the player wide right.

I don't want to apportion blame between DDG and Fred (my original point was that the cause of the failure was broader than just Fred), the point is that (a) the pitch was slippery, (b) throwing the ball into a similar space cost a goal in the recent pass and (c) do you just throw the ball out by rote?

 

[Pavl3n]

Curtois having a mare , they will definitely be in for Degea they need as big a clear out as we do !!

I'd he happy if we do a De Gea for Curtous plus cash deal. I think they'll be happy as they only paid £35 for the Belgian. So if we value Kepa and Alisson at £70/75 I think De Gea costs about 10-15% more.
De Gea for Curtous and £35k is a good deal for both parties.

 

[Casanova85]

De Gea's apologists from Manchester finally understanding why he's so criticised in Spain.

 

[SirFergie]

I'd he happy if we do a De Gea for Curtous plus cash deal. I think they'll be happy as they only paid £35 for the Belgian. So if we value Kepa and Alisson at £70/75 I think De Gea costs about 10-15% more.
De Gea for Curtous and £35k is a good deal for both parties.

Don’t know why you’d go for a keeper in exchange. I’d go for Kroos.

 

[Ander herrera the warrior]

Watched most of the game again. How fecking brilliant is Moutinho? Absolutely dominated the game and set the tempo. He looked like he was plucked right out of the midfield of a 2008/9 barcelona team. Brilliant little fecker he is.

Their midfield is playing much better than ours at the moment. Moutinho and Neves just reminds me of Scholes and Carrick.

 

[Patrick08]

But I wish De Gea wouldn't play those central balls out like that.

De gea was at no fault what so ever, these players panic mentally when they receive the ball, and that's what the problem is with fred always.

It just presents the fact that we train poorly and we don't train to play out from the back.

 

[TRUERED89]

plenty of space. Split blame? FFS

Wow when you look at that screen shot Fred had a fecking mare there, but Young is also a donkey for trying to play offside when he should have tracked Jota's run.

 

[Buster15]

De gea was at no fault what so ever, these players panic mentally when they receive the ball, and that's what the problem is with fred always.

It just presents the fact that we train poorly and we don't train to play out from the back.

That is because Ole sets us up to counter attack and that doesn't require the same level of skills on the ball as City.
That is quite sensible because he realised that we don't have anything like the capability to pass out from the back through midfield to the attack.

 

[Patrick08]

That is because Ole sets us up to counter attack and that doesn't require the same level of skills on the ball as City.
That is quite sensible because he realised that we don't have anything like the capability to pass out from the back through midfield to the attack.

You can do both at a time ideally not sure why do we chose and keep stuck in old ways of giving the ball away with every kick from the back, it looks so pointless specially when we are chasing the game. I hope we evolve and learn to play more intelligently.

 

[Member 113277]

You can do both at a time ideally not sure why do we chose and keep stuck in old ways of giving the ball away with every kick from the back, it looks so pointless specially when we are chasing the game. I hope we evolve and learn to play more intelligently.

Good point.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Don’t know why you’d go for a keeper in exchange. I’d go for Kroos.

Courtois + Kroos = De Gea

 

[Gator Nate]

plenty of space. Split blame? FFS

Plenty of space and three easy passes from there, depending on the direction the four red shirts ahead are moving. Only thing I don't see is the 11th Wolf, which might have been able to cut off one of the passes.

 

[DSG]

1. This is a team with a fragile mentality.
2. Our attackers are generally not clinical enough in front of goal.
3. We lack a strong personality / talisman on the pitch. Pogba will never be that personality.

Obviously, Wolves were lucky for the first goal and the second. We didn’t take our chances in the the first 20 minutes (Lukaku, Lingard), and our performance dipped after that first goal.

Realistically, we need a major squad overhaul this summer to solve these issues.

 

[Cladistics_Fan]

1. This is a team with a fragile mentality.
2. Our attackers are generally not clinical enough in front of goal.
3. We lack a strong personality / talisman on the pitch. Pogba will never be that personality.

Obviously, Wolves were lucky for the first goal and the second. We didn’t take our chances in the the first 20 minutes (Lukaku, Lingard), and our performance dipped after that first goal.

Realistically, we need a major squad overhaul this summer to solve these issues.

Again, this is something I see over and over again. Isn't it just possible that they were better than us once they got into their stride? It is not beyond the realms of impossibility, I mean, they beat us before in the F.A Cup so, it was always going to be a close match. Further to that, if it hadn't been for DeGea towards the end, we could have conceded another 2 goals just as easily as Wolves could have done when Lukaku/Lingard missed their chances.

With that being said, you could say that we were lucky against PSG, when not only did their defender give Lukaku an assist, but Buffon completely fluffed his lines and gave another gift to Lukaku. Or, if Kimbempe had kept his arms to his sides, we would have been out of the Champions league. Every team has their fair share of luck, whether it is teams against us, or indeed ourselves against others i.e. the goal by Spurs when Roy Carroll was beaten, yet we had a massive slice of luck and if goal-line technology had been in at that time, Spurs wouldn't have moaned as much. In short, luck or no luck, it is how much the team wants to win that counts and Wolverhampton Wanderers, after a pretty shaky 15 minutes showed that they wanted it more than we did.

 

[Sterling Archer]

plenty of space. Split blame? FFS

Looking at that it's 100% De Gea's fault. Forget the space, there are four Wolves players in that space and two United shirts. Any mistake on a slip or what have you and that's an immediate overload with our wingbacks needing to turn and recover from wide position. It just looks like asking for trouble against a team pressing so high. That's why they're pressing so high! To recover the ball in our own half. Just silly from De Gea. Fred obviously should have done better.

 

[AlexanderClaude]

Looking at that it's 100% De Gea's fault. Forget the space, there are four Wolves players in that space and two United shirts. Any mistake on a slip or what have you and that's an immediate overload with our wingbacks needing to turn and recover from wide position. It just looks like asking for trouble against a team pressing so high. That's why they're pressing so high! To recover the ball in our own half. Just silly from De Gea. Fred obviously should have done better.

I gotta agree with that.. you have to take into consideration that players were already slipping and sliding all over the pitch due to the rain... gotta take that into consideration when playing out

 

[breakout67]

Looking at that it's 100% De Gea's fault. Forget the space, there are four Wolves players in that space and two United shirts. Any mistake on a slip or what have you and that's an immediate overload with our wingbacks needing to turn and recover from wide position. It just looks like asking for trouble against a team pressing so high. That's why they're pressing so high! To recover the ball in our own half. Just silly from De Gea. Fred obviously should have done better.

I agree with this. The way you beat a press is by playing the numbers. When a team presses like that you put a lofty ball to a wide player. I've seen Ederson and Ter Stegen do that countless times when teams try to press their centre back or DM.

 

[Member 113277]

plenty of space. Split blame? FFS

Shame you can't make your point without a profanity, but I suggest you show a video clip of the incident in real time - it doesn't look so comfortable then and the slippery surface doesn't help Fred, though it is disappointing he didn't do better.

 

[Member 113277]

Looking at that it's 100% De Gea's fault. Forget the space, there are four Wolves players in that space and two United shirts. Any mistake on a slip or what have you and that's an immediate overload with our wingbacks needing to turn and recover from wide position. It just looks like asking for trouble against a team pressing so high. That's why they're pressing so high! To recover the ball in our own half. Just silly from De Gea. Fred obviously should have done better.

I gotta agree with that.. you have to take into consideration that players were already slipping and sliding all over the pitch due to the rain... gotta take that into consideration when playing out

I agree with this. The way you beat a press is by playing the numbers. When a team presses like that you put a lofty ball to a wide player. I've seen Ederson and Ter Stegen do that countless times when teams try to press their centre back or DM.

I'm pleased some other posters can see the issue.

 

[Sandikan]

Again, this is something I see over and over again. Isn't it just possible that they were better than us once they got into their stride? .

They played well, but you certainly have to say that the second goal had a fair bit of luck.

A fairly aimless ball in brushes off Jiminez, and somehow ends with Smalling deflecting it in.
If that had been one of Liverpool's last min winners we'd have all gone mad at the luck.

 

[Sandikan]

De gea was at no fault what so ever, these players panic mentally when they receive the ball, and that's what the problem is with fred always.

It just presents the fact that we train poorly and we don't train to play out from the back.

He was at fault in the way that if he doesn't play that ball, Fred doesn't have the opportunity to lose it, and we therefore don't concede.

Yes, a 50m midfielder should be able to take a ball to feet, but the risk v benefit is just too high. As it was with Perreira not too long ago.

 

[Carolina Red]

At least we know Phil is giving it his all...

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[breakout67]

At least we know Phil is giving it his all...

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Thanks for the nightmares...

 

[Cladistics_Fan]

They played well, but you certainly have to say that the second goal had a fair bit of luck.

A fairly aimless ball in brushes off Jiminez, and somehow ends with Smalling deflecting it in.
If that had been one of Liverpool's last min winners we'd have all gone mad at the luck.

I only have 3 more posts before I reach my limit in the mains however, I will make it short and sweet. I am in total agreement with you about the 2nd goal where they did have a great deal of fortune. This happens in a lot of matches, either for us, or for the other teams that are in the top 6. What I don't like is the idea that "we could have beaten them easily because they were rubbish."

This goes without saying from the 1st whistle until around the 15th minute. Once they had those two scares and survived, it was clear that they thought it would be their night so, why not try and win the game. As you know, you don't need 30 chances to win a game. They exerted enough pressure in the midfield to actually dominate the likes of Scott, Fred and Paul. So much so, that they were constantly coming at us at will. Why? Well, this is down to the midfield in general. A match can be won or lost in the midfield, and we most certainly lost it. Once the midfield was dominated, it gave added impetus to the Wolves attack to try and do as much damage as they possibly can.

In short, perhaps it is about time (even if we love our beloved Manchester United) that we give the other team credit for fighting back in adversity, rather than criticising our own capacity to play the game. We fought back against PSG, Wolves fought back against us and that is football in general. You just have to give credit where it is due.