Nah - because in this group we will qualify with 10 points. A win in our next game and chances are big we are top-2 again.Still 15 points to play for, so we need not worry just yet.
However this could definitely be this years Istanbul if we end up needing the point a draw would have given us.
We saw the last 15 minutes out exceptionally comfortably until Lingard gifted them a goal. They were restricted to efforts outside the box hence the 19 shots. Cross doesn’t equal danger. Oddly enough it was quite similar to Liverpool against Chelsea who also flooded their box with CBs and encouraged Liverpool to cross it in. You know? That Tuchel masterclass everyone is talking about. The key difference was we didn’t have a Lukaku up front or a Jorginho in CM to hold onto the ball at times.We were great after Ronaldo went off.
Yeah I could trust this to fire up Ronny & Rafa but some of the others including Ole and the coaching staff I don't share the same confidenceIt's a set back but you need these things to knock you back to reality and make you focus to go on to better things
What happened tonight could be a blessing in disguise come the end of the season.
The best players and teams are defined by how they respond to adversity
Yes, theoretically. Sack him.We might be eighth next sunday.
Yeah hence the point about 15 points left to play for. We still have wriggle room for if we have another slip up.Nah - because in this group we will qualify with 10 points. A win in our next game and chances are big we are top-2 again.
This, exactly!Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.
I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.
When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.
There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.
If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.
If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.
We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.
Yeah we do seem to take games for granted in europe more than the league and that is arrogance we need to cut out right nowThis is pure complacency. We have seven defeats in 11 Champions League games under Ole. And the disastrous defeat to Villarreal in the Europa League final. What makes you think it is a one off
True but it’s still really annoying we were literally seconds from coming away with a point after a terrible night and would have left the whole group level on points basically nullifying our poor night. As you said though not the worst case scenario and still plenty games left to play, we should still be topping this group.I think the draw between Villareal and Atalanta is a good thing and provides a bit of damage limitation to our awful result. At least neither of the other two stronger teams have picked up 3 points on us and we're now only 1 point off 2nd place.
Yeah always felt we needed both types of midfielder but the club see it very differently so nothing we can do is going to change thatI'd argue a De Jong type, too. A Rice so we actually have someone capable of shielding and contributing to the defence (our incredible 06-11 defence had Carrick despite all the praise the back 5 gets) and a De Jong so we actually have someone who can control a game, keep the ball under pressure and help the team settle when things are getting tough.
That's hipster talk!
And what could be possibly said in an interview to make that defeat less embarrassingly shite?Any interviews?
Proof is in the pudding my friend.This is why Ole will never win anything resting Varane and subbing off CR7 and Bruno im sure no other manager would do that :/
Yeah because our clowns don't see ball retention as important sadlyWe saw the last 15 minutes out exceptionally comfortably until Lingard gifted them a goal. They were restricted to efforts outside the box hence the 19 shots. Cross doesn’t equal danger. Oddly enough it was quite similar to Liverpool against Chelsea who also flooded their box with CBs and encouraged Liverpool to cross it in. You know? That Tuchel masterclass everyone is talking about. The key difference was we didn’t have a Lukaku up front or a Jorginho in CM to hold onto the ball at times.
I’m confused by this response to be honest
Why did Varane not start anyway ? Thats really worrying and baffling to me you dont mess with your best center back pairing at any clubPutting on Varane for VDB was one of the stupidest thing he’s done as manager
No it wasn't. It gave us firm control of our box, and cut off their ability to exploit the space between the full backs and the CBs. It only really slipped once, but that was enough. If we were going to play deep, it was the right thing to do, in my opinion.Putting on Varane for VDB was one of the stupidest thing he’s done as manager
Yea. I saying when AWB got the red, it will be interesting to see how we respond. Our response was woeful.There's no excuse why Ole made us instantly shit the bed and turn ultra defensive at the first sign of trouble. Fine if it was just till we got to half time. But that second half display and tactics were tragic. But it says a lot about his approach and it's once again deeply worrying.
Still, we looked a lot more comfortable at the start of second half than the last 10 of the first. I don´t think the idea was to defend the lead, but rather to allow Shaw and Dalot to move further up the pitch and provide some width in attack instead of having all the play around our box.Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.
I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.
When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.
There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.
If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.
If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.
We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.
Theres a 6 min highlights video on youtube its got more than 2 chances in those 6 mins. Go have a look.I watched the entire match, I remember 2 chances they created, the shot from the edge of the box immediately after the red, and the cross that deflected off Shaw for their first goal.
Which ones did I miss?
Silly me. I didn't realise our goal was to draw this match.But that isn’t what this forum is moaning about is it? They didn’t want him off at all. And it wasn’t too late - it was 1-1.
It was when we went down to 10, they equalised and the crowd got well into the game. The goal is to get out of the group and it would have been a good point. I get it though. I’d have been gutted with a point in those circumstances on Football Manager too mate.Silly me. I didn't realise our goal was to draw this match.
If you're talking about the BT sport highlights then it shows exactly what I said, a few shots from miles away and the 2 chances I mentioned. If not, then post the video.Theres a 6 min highlights video on youtube its got more than 2 chances in those 6 mins. Go have a look.
fecking hell! There are some cnuts on here.I don’t want see lingard in a united kit ever again.
I wish I could disagree with him...but I can't.Merson basically saying what some posters are, that if it were City that went down to ten against young boys, City would still have kept control of the ball.